Ducati Monster Forum

http://motomatters.com/news/2012/05/02/the_first_improbable_rumors_of_the_2013_.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/05/02/the_first_improbable_rumors_of_the_2013_.html)

Let the madness begin! Last I heard Ducati was thinking about replacing Rossi with me. It would save them a shit load of money and how could I do any worse??!! [laugh] [laugh]

DAMN...." Site off-line
MotoMatters.com is currently undergoing maintenance. We should be back shortly. Thank you for your patience. "

back up...

thanks!...readin it now!

I can see Stoner quitting...

'specially if he repeats this year and the restrictive rules become reality.

this to me seems like some well crafted tabloidism for to pave the way for Marquez to step up to the next class more than anything....

While I'm sure they want to move Marquez up, they wouldn't do it at Stoner's expense unless he actually wanted out. How many heads would roll at honda if Stoner went to yamaha and won a championship? If anyone were pushed out, I'm sure it would be Pedrosa.

Marquez has to ride a year on a satellite bike anyway.

This... but if he podiums in his first year then I can see pedrosa possibly being pushed out.  Pedrosa is a alien, but the only one that hasnt wont a championship yet.

Shall we start the 2014 Silly season thread already?  haha

But I think the person that should be the most worried on the grid right now has to be Spies... Rossi, no matter what happens, will always be Rossi.  Even if he's not winning, he's making money.  Spies on the other hand...

There's been some talk about that rule disappearing because of the limited number of non CRT bikes on the grid.

It's probably wild speculation too. ;D

If Repsol decides they want Marquez on a factory RC next year, there's at least a  decent chance the rookie rule goes away. 

I agree about Ben :(.  My half assed jokes about Jarvis sabotaging him.. maybe they have 1% more credence now in fantasy land.  I mean, there's just no good reason for what he said about Ben last month. 

Gonna be a very active season, either way. 

I bet stoner does not retire.

I missed Jarvis' comment...

what'd he say?

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/January/jan2612-1000cc-switch-to-help-ben-spies/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/January/jan2612-1000cc-switch-to-help-ben-spies/)

it's wasn't super duper egregious, but why use reverse psych motivation in the press before the season even starts?  dick.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99318 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99318)

Marquez will go to either Gresini or LCR. They will keep him on a Honda one way or another. I would bet that Gresini will go back to having another Honda, possibly a factory bike like Marco's last year. I do see the big names stayig put, for at least a year. So Lorenzo, Stoner and Rossi will probably be set. The big questions would be what you do with Hayden, Spies and Pedrosa. Nicky has shown signs of doing much better on the new Duc and he really helps with the Duc sales in the US. I can't imagine him leaving. Pedrosa earns a reprive for a year until Marquez is ready. then he gets da boot. Spies will not have a factory ride next year if he doesn't battle for at least 3rd. Crutchlow is the most likely candidate to take his place.

The Ben should be worried about Cal. I know I wouldn't be sleeping well. Spies should seriously consider his cycling career or WSBK if he doesn't get some podiums ASAP. [popcorn] And that's from a fan! ;)

You know how they lie... ;D

Cal putting even more pressure on Ben.

I thought this lil tidbit to be interesting....

http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/May/120505f.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/May/120505f.htm)


outta left field is Barbera replacing Nicky or Val IMHO....

Pretty sure that is meant as "if Nicky or Valentino get injured".

...or keep qualifying and finishing near the CRT bikes.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Ducati fold its MotoGP effort. When does that Dorna contract expire again?

They don't like the rev limiter either. Reasons to stay in MotoGP are decreasing.

Then they could put all their effort back into the Ducati Cup/WSBK

Everything seems to point in that direction. They could hire Spies to ride the Panigale, dominate the series, and do just as well from their investment...as the GP series turns into NASCAR.

UMMM...have you been watching WSBK lately...all the manu's have stepped up...it ain't the all Ducati show so much anymore...

Ducati leads the championship on a bike old enough to warrant a wheelchair.   :P  In theory, the other manufacturers are three years behind and just catching the Duc.  Next year the Panigale hits, and back we go to the Ducati cup.

Unless, of course, they run into the same issues they ran into in MotoGP...namely the absolute incompetence of the racing organization ;D

OT Humor


http://backmarker-bikewriter.blogspot.com/2012/05/fim-acknowledges-reality-puts-stoner-in.html (http://backmarker-bikewriter.blogspot.com/2012/05/fim-acknowledges-reality-puts-stoner-in.html)

That's pretty good.  [thumbsup]

Gregory House, M.D., says, "At first I thought Stoner was lactose intolerant. But then I realized that, like me, he is just intolerant, period."  [clap]

My favorite snip:  "But our technical experts told us that while Casey complains bitterly about the chatter, it doesn't seem to slow him down. And besides, he complains about everything."

 [clap]

Rossi to Honda.  I said it first. 

naahhhhhhhhh...

Crutchlow into the Ben's seat and the Ben into Casey's seat...Eddie Munster stays put and Marquez takes Bautista's seat....

Well there goes my evil plan to see him race in WSBK on a Panigale... [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

That said, I'm not sure Honda would have him back. More likely that Rossi retires and MotoGP viewership disappears.

I'm not sure about Rossi to Honda, but I assume that it's the best move if he chooses to leave Ducati. With this annoucement, Yamaha will be Lorenzo and Crutchlow, Honda might be Pedrosa and Spies/Bautista/Dovi (take your pick) and Ducati stays the same. Marquez goes to Gresini with Bautista, if not selected to move into Stoner's seat, and given full factory support from Honda.

Man this is truly a silly season.

Isn't the no-rookies-on-factory-teams rule still in play?

It's been mentioned that may go away because of the limited number of satellite rides on the grid.

And the fact that Gresini is not actually a factory team, it's a gray area.

Not gray at all.

Simo had a full-factory Honda at Gresini.

I'm inclined to agree with you here.  Begin on Honda, retire on Honda.  I figure Dorna will push for this to happen.  They need their golden boy to be competitive and keep the cash train rolling as long as possible.  Jorge and Pedro aren't gonna cut it by themselves.

It's always seemed to me that the Rossi-Honda bridge got nuked from orbit.

I had that feeling too. And deep down I hope that's the case...al the more reason for him to grab a Panigale and make WSBK worth the trip to Utah.

Spies!? WTF dude!? Crutch to Spies' ride. Rossi wants to be competitive, so I do see him going to Honda, especially after this podium. That opens up a ride on the Duc. Dovi?

I don't see Honda taking Rossi...

I've been wrong before.

they've already said it's 'not impossible'.  which is a radical change.

marquez, the problem is that his whole team goes where he goes.  if he goes to gresini for a season, half the gresini garage is out of a job for a year.

more likely there will be new repsol/CX satellite team (factory bike) for a year.

So what are the odds Lorenzo wins 14+ races next year?

Noyes weighs in with a good summary:
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-irreplaceable-pt-i/P1 (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-irreplaceable-pt-i/P1)

 [thumbsup]

dennis seems to think it's very likely repsol will finally get lorenzo.  which means goodbye to pedro.  and remarriage of rossi to yamaha.

maybe.

Very interesting indeed. I would say that if Lorenzo goes with Honda, then Yamaha can go after Rossi and Crutchlow. Ben might end up demoted to Tech 3. Pedrosa on a Duc? Doubtful, but where else would he go? To Yamaha? I would think that Ducati has to make a huge move to get Rossi signed. That would open a door for Yamaha and Honda to simply exchange riders. The question would end up who will be #2 to Lorenzo on the Honda, considering that the Dovi experiment didn't pan out. This is the silliest of seasons.

with all the contracts expiring at the end of the season, it was going to be even before stoner's bombshell.

Marquez...


and Dovi goes to Duc for to not have to pay for his own brakes...

Very likely with Marquez.  I'm sure they'll drop the rookie rule due to lack of rides and the need to get top talent into the best machinery as quick as possible to keep the series interesting.  Even with updates, its unlikely that Ducati can make up 30 seconds.  The series needs Rossi to finish on either Yam or Honda just for the spectacle.

The only problem I see with Marquez and Lorenzo on the same team is that Repsol said specifically they wouldn't have two Spanish riders on that team, so they'd have to backtrack on that.

That's why I didn't put Marquez on the Honda, at least not the factory. There options are the Italians, which they have history with the ones that are worth a damn, Bradtl (sp?) or Americans. i doubt they would go for Spies the way he has been riding this year and Nicky has history. Yamaha has the best chance of attracting the best talent that is not named Lorenzo.

not even Repsol, HRC said that.  otherwise they could just leave pedro where he is.

and carmelo has already said the rookie rule will stand (so far)

i think it may be worth making a distinction here that (i believe) honda/hrc (the team) said that, not repsol (the sponsor)...

(gm2 beat me to it)

yup.  directly from Nakamoto-san

Spy photos of the Suzuki for MotoGP is springing up, even though Suzuki is still saying that there will be no MotoGP effort until 2014. What is they came back earlier than expected. An additional manufacturer would be awesome for those guys that are talented, but are relegated to satellite teams.

not if the suzuki is slower than a satellite honda or yamaha...

The Suk was not doing that badly towards the end, even with the team knowing that the writing was on the wall. You would hope that with a few years of development they could come up with something workable.

This time Suzuki better build an in line 4.

I think that if Rossi leaves Ducati he'll have to disavow his Italian ancestry/citizenship and change his name (poll question, anyone  ;D?)

In the meantime...Ducati may be making enough progress to keep him around...


http://manziana.motocorse.com/blog/32445_La_vie_en_Rossi_singing_in_the_rain___ING_VERS.php (http://manziana.motocorse.com/blog/32445_La_vie_en_Rossi_singing_in_the_rain___ING_VERS.php)

Man, that really illustrates the "two steps foward, one step back"* nature of tuning these bikes.


*(or the opposite)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100009 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100009)

So if they can get around the rookie rule, then The Turd will be looking for another ride AND you still have to replace Stoner. Marquez getting around the rookie rule would also mean that Honda would not go after Lorenzo. In that case the best option would be Rossi. Who better to learn from? I can see HRC pushing for this options since they would keep Repsol happy and Val would bring big $$$ sponsors along with Repsol.

Yamaha is in a tight spot here. They probably have the most ridable bike on the grid, but no big sponsor. They would need to not only keep Lorenzo, but also try to bring in a big name #2, maybe even The Turd. They will not shy away from having 2 Spaniards if they can bring in the big bucks and podiums. The more likely option would be Crutchlow since Lorenzo and The Turd are not the best of friends.

Ducati is pretty much make the beast with two backsed. The more I watch this train wreck, the more I'm convinced it will just end with Rossi going to Honda. They can't fix this shit in a year and Rossi will jump at a chance to take over a winning bike. As has been discussed at nauseum, there will be little reason for Ducati to stay in MotoGP if they can't attract an alien.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120607duccrutch.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120607duccrutch.htm)

Crutchlow to the Duc?

I'm hoping that's just talk, to get Yamaha or another team to make a move.

not that we didn't say this about nicky in 2009 but cal would be a likely candidate to be able to ride that thing.. maybe.

...only if they slap Marlboro plastics on a Yamaha chassis and engine.

well...the whole Duc thing will be more interesting after Laguna when Ducati has put in the final summation of it's development parts thus far to make it a bike again according to the press releases going back over the last couple months from Preziosi...if results start to culminate after that, it could be an entirely different animal with negotiations and so forth...

+1

He's putting pressure on Yamaha to punt Spies and sign him. Dovi is a good rider, but he's not going to win any personality contests.

What's the matter with Dovi?

He doesn't have Rossi's personality?

Very few do.

I think Dovi is a lot like an Italian version of Nicky.

They both do their job and keep most of the 'vernacular' to themselves.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/lorenzo-signs-two-year-extension-with-yamaha/20837.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/lorenzo-signs-two-year-extension-with-yamaha/20837.html)

The first chip falls on the table.  Jorge stays with Yammie for two more years.

No surprise there.

not really, but i am surprised it was so early

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/06/12/lucio_cecchinello_on_the_complications_c.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/06/12/lucio_cecchinello_on_the_complications_c.html)

I have a silly thought....since Marquez is so damn reckless and boneheaded at times...lets say he doesn't win the Moto2 crown this year...and it is thought best for him to stay in Moto2 to hone his racecraft for another year until contractually, a seat opens up for him to more easily advance to the next class...Marquez problem solved!

 - you can be guaranteed he's not staying in moto2 past this year
 - aggressive/boneeheaded or not, there's nothing wrong with his racecraft.  obviously, he needs to keep maturing.  but another year in moto2 would be a waste
 - all that said, let's say he stays, the 4 bikes per OEM rule gets put in place, the rookie rule stands.. then there is no 'more easily advance'.  he & the whole paddock still have the exact same problem next year.

that's a really interesting article.  the rookie rule makes sense, except when it doesn't.  everyone knows marquez is not just marquez, it's an entire team.  and sponsors.  so either the 4 bike rule gets delayed and honda gives him a 1-bike team for a year or else all of LCR or half of Gresini get totally displaced for a year.  quite a puzzle.

 

I'm surprised.  Not that he resigned, but that it was so early.  Did he even entertain the GIANT offer that Honda must have made him?

Maybe Marquez then rides a CRT for a year until he can board a factory Repsol machine...

Yamaha 'made great efforts to retain me'

he's always said it's not about the $.  but sure it is, somewhat.  evidently the $ they were able to offer him was close enough.  bc it really doesn't make sense for him to switch.

plus, you know marquez is going to Repsol.  HRC has said no way 2 spanish riders.  so maybe if there was a Repsol offer it was only for 1 year.  and then if he had gone, what happens in 2014?

yamaha is the best place for him.  and, he's winning.

 

 

no way the Repsol golden boy is going to be on anything less than a factory-spec RC213V next year, regardless of the team.

Repsol and all of Spain are standing there wringing their hands, pent up since 2006.  cuz Mallorca is close but it aint really Spain.
 

He's going to MotoGP next year, even though he should have moved up this year. Anyway, a CRT option would have been nice sponsored by Repsol, but in the same way, Repsol would not pay big $$$ for a back marker. I don't see how you can have a rookie rule AND a limit on how many bikes a manufacturer provides. That just forces you into a corner, you can't develop new talent and sign someone like the aliens long term. You would almost need to increase the manufacturers. So they would need to beg Suzuki, Kawasaki and Aprilia to come back. That would open up some space, but they would still be backmarkers.

So many silly thoughts.

i guess limiting the number of bikes fixes the loophole in the poorly written rookie rule. If he gets his own ride it will be on a factory spec bike, so even though he's not under the HONDA factory team, he is on a "factory bike". so this bypasses the intent of the rookie rule to allow top talent to go to satellite teams.

 Where as Honda has the money to fully support another factory bike, where as other MFR's do not.

I understand that Dorna doesn't want to turn MotoGP into the Honda Cup, but in the same fashion, why would you care if they can field 6 Hondas? Yamaha has already said that 4 is their limit. It's not like the other manufacturers are jumping over themselves to get back in. At this point I'll take what I can get. The problem would be with the sponsors. Repsol is unlikely to sponsor anything less than a factory bike.

I wouldn't either, if your not on a factory bike, you don't have a chance of winning. Give the satellite bikes (and Ducati's) 1,000,000:1 odds on winning and i wouldn't waste a dollar. Unless its raining. Dorna needs to lessen (don't know how they would do this) the contrast between factory (honda-honda, and yami-yami) bikes and satellite to get some better racing.

That's why they're trying to change the rules. Almost like dumbing down the series. How do you make the "show" more fun and even without completely ruining the concept of prototype bikes?

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LkKDLeQc3RM/T5TA8OkA_RI/AAAAAAAACfI/EEVC7W-shIU/s1600/NASCAR-nascar-23962589-425-425.jpg)

Dorna needs to suggest that the manu's make their motors available for lease/sale at a signifigant rate difference to a whole bike, so that potentially a(for example) Suter chassis can bolt in a Yammie or Honda motor and race as a CRT/Satelite machine...or something of that nature....there would be less of a gap like a lower class in that kind of format....

The funding available for private teams isn't enough to support that many satellites, at Honda's current going rate.
The factories drove the cost out of sight.


Factories will not sell prototype motors.
DORNA *did* suggest that the factories furnish engines for lease, IIRC Honda came back with a price for an engine ~2/3 the price of a whole bike.

Did that include the electronics? Without that the engine would be pretty useless.

yup

Just a matter of time.

I was wrong:
Requests from Dorna, the FIM and IRTA to lease engines on their own met with resistance, and then were offered at a cost that was not a viable option, around 70% of the lease of a full bike.

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/11/22/crt_faq_everything_you_always_wanted_to_.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/11/22/crt_faq_everything_you_always_wanted_to_.html)

WELL...here's an option to throw out there...Mugen ( who is the figurehead name/team running the loosely veiled HRC electric bike team in TT ) could all of the sudden get a lease deal on some RC213V motors for to be put into a chassis made by the same folks that make Marquez's current chassis ands VOILA...not a Satelite and yet, still factory supported in CRT format...

A) Depends on how the engine is supported, factory personnel babysitter or Mugen babysitter... look to the section "Would WCM qualify as a Claiming Rule Team with their bike based on the Yamaha R1? Would Team KR qualify as a Claiming Rule Team with their KR211V and KR212V?" in my previous link.

B) As a CRT, it would be subject to having it's engine claimed. It would be quite a race between Yamaha and Ducati personnel to submit the forms to claim that RC213V lump for a mere 20k Euro.

I thought that only a CRT team can claim a CRT motor....

Factory teams can claim, although as stated in other material, its highly unlikely they would ever consider it.  It just keeps any other non factory manufacturer from tossing in a highly developed engine for fear of the technology being stolen.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120613-46.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120613-46.htm)

i've been thinking a factory honda @ Gresini is the most likely option..

Either stay at Ducati or this option.

Rumors posted in SBKPlanet.com say that Pedrosa and Hayden are close to signing new contracts with their current employment...

Now that is interesting. Pedrosa staying with HRC means that they probably are having trouble getting around the rookie rule. If I was HRC I would sign Pedrosa for a year and then go after Rossi.

http://www.motomatters.com/interview/2012/06/14/dani_pedrosa_on_future_contracts_and_pro.html (http://www.motomatters.com/interview/2012/06/14/dani_pedrosa_on_future_contracts_and_pro.html)

'Well, since Barcelona, when Honda contacted Jorge,...'

Where else would he go? Ducati? No way. The day Repsol does not offer him a contract is the day he retires.

he won't retire...he'll go yachting for a year and look for a spot while wooing sponsors on the water....

With his flippy floppies?

Can he cheat at that?

Eric Cartman - Come Sail Away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOWK7Tam01M#)

Rookie rule dropped in 2013:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-rookie-rule-marc-marquez-201/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-rookie-rule-marc-marquez-201/)

I guess they are going to reverse the "no 2 spanish riders" statement they made before?

As much as Repsol would want the 2 Spaniard team...HRC on the other hand doesn't want to pigeon-hole their marketing like that.
I think if they sign Marquez, Dani is out at HRC/Repsol (maybe to a factory bike in satellite livery?). Of course, HRC/Repsol has run 3 bikes before...

4 bikes per manufacturer rule still pending. So do you fire a guy that is comfortably in third place in the championship and will be, arguably, the second fastest guy next year, and replace him with a kid that is not even winning the Moto2 championship this year?

Exactly. They can't fire Pedrobot but I do see them running an all Spanish team, it would be unthinkable not to give Marquez a factory seat, he's too talented and if thy don't offer it, someone else will

That will depend on how much pressure Repsol can put on HRC. I would think that HRC will retract their stance on the whole Spanish only team. I will hate to see the other guys, like Luthi, Espargaro and Iannone, be forced into CRT or kept in Moto2 for lack of rides.

Do you really think any of those guys deserve the factory ride over Marquez?

Iannone is just completely inconsistent. He can either ride
Like a bat out of hell or come 16th.

Luthi is just unmarketable, and though he is talented, he really hasn't shown anything to prove that he can hang with the big boys.

Espargaro is good. His only problem is that he's basically an older, lesser talented version Marquez. He will probably just end up like his older brother doing nothing really In the GP class

You can't really argue with the fact that Marquez  the  next Lorenzo.  Out of  everybody in the moto 2 class he is by far the most promising. All he has to do is not kill himself in the process and he'll be a star in GP.

The only thing we an't argue about is that Marquez has the marketing might of Repsol behind him. His staying in Moto2 this year has basically done what we predicted would happen, he has not dominated and hence his stock has lowered, except in the Repsol eyes. When Bradtl moved up, everyone was ready to hand Marquez the title, even before Qatar. I will agree that Marquez is the most marketable and that's the reason Repsol are desperate to bring him up. They are hoping that he will become what they expected Pedrosa to be. Instead they bet on the wrong horse, should have gone for Lorenzo. Now, if someone other than Marquez wins the championship, where do you put them? It won't be a factory team and most likely not even a satellite team. That delegates them to a strong CRT team, probably one of the ARTs.

Exactly Carlos.

I liken Marquez to Pedrosa more than Lorenzo. He is a golden boy but isn't going to be much more than the also ran that Pedo-bot has become. How many titles has Pedrosa taken in the top class now? Exactly.

Although Marquez does seem to be the most deserving (i.e. potential) Moto2 rider, I agree with the others that he's more like Pedrosa than Lorenzo. A Repsol golden boy. We'll see what he can do in GP...hopefully he's good. Someone is going to need to challenge JLo with Stoner gone.

I also think Luthi, Redding, and Esparago could be good as well. Ianone maybe, but like you said, he's inconsistent.

I didn't think Bradl was all that good though...and he's having a very nice year in GP so far.

Plus...

Marquez is a douchebag. ;D

Wait...are we seriously arguing over which douchebag Spaniard is the *biggest douchebag*?

Other than being a crybaby, Pol isn't a douchebag...
Alvaro is one of the nicest guys in the paddock.
Vinales is an animal.
I would even argue that even though he is a friggin' emotional robot, Lorenzo isn't actually a doucher.

Marqueso and Pedrama are the douchebags.

It has nothing to do with them being Spaniards. It has to do with them being Repsol's display of power in the grand scheme of things. It is a glaring mark of how Dorna is letting Repsol make their policy for them.

I have no issues with all those guys being Spaniards.

Marquez would be a douche if he was American.

I like watching Iannone race. He's balls out, but not douchey. I do agree that he's inconsistent. I can look past douchebag moves as long as you realize that it was douchebag move.

I keep doing this, but Sic was constantly apologizing for his douchebag moves and you could see that the guy was simply impatient. He wanted to make the pass and he wanted to do it NOW! Then he would take out someone and he would look like a puppy that just peed in the house. Marquez basically blames the other guy. But he is young and I believe that Repsol will do their best to mold him, hopefully better than what they've done with the Turd. At least Marquez actually smiles.

So assuming that Repsol get their way, which they probably will, HRC factory team wil be Pedrosa/Marquez. Yamaha already signed Lorenzo and they are not in a hurry to sign anyone else, most likely because they will wait as long as they can to sign Crutchlow so that the Ben doesn't throw in the towel mid season. Ducati will resign Nicky, the question will go back to the options that will be presented to Rossi (see below).

The Satellites will be a mess. Dovi will most likely stay with Tech 3. I would try to sign Ben back to Tech 3, at least he would stay with a consistent bike. If they pass the 4 bike limit rule then Rossi would fit with Gresini if he was willing to go satellite. LCR has Bradtl. With no 4 bike rule, then maybe Gresini gets 2 Hondas and keeps Bautista with Rossi (I would love to see this combo). Ducati would then need to see how many bikes they are willing to field. They would need someone to replace Rossi, then decide if they want to lease to Abraham, which should be in a CRT bike because he sucks. Pramac might be talked into fielding 2 bikes again. The question would then turn from "who is replacing Stoner?" to "who is replacing Rossi?" Do you turn to young talent? Maybe someone from WSBK? Talk Bayliss out of retirement? Talk Stoner out of retirement? The silliness is endless!!!

Can we just call this the Marc Marquez rule? ;)

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2012/06/20/motogp-rookie-rule-no-more/ (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2012/06/20/motogp-rookie-rule-no-more/)

That's a real shocker... [roll]

meh..no matter how much pull they have,  they haven't dominated the series, only been between Yamaha and honda. Last 8 years only 2 honda wins

HRC is the biggest factory and provide most of the support, including engines for Moto2. Who provides the engines for Moto3?

KTM I think...

http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/06/19/motogp_2013_silly_season_what_we_know_fo.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/06/19/motogp_2013_silly_season_what_we_know_fo.html)

Rossi buys his own team?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120621c17.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120621c17.htm)

I see him going with Gresini before buying his own team.

with Honda talking in that one article about having the ability to sell more bikes outside of the 2 leases and 2 factory bikes...maybe it is possible for Rossi to have/buy a Honda team?....

Really?

Why?

Everyone I know that isn't their own boss wants to be.

Why should he be different?

Gresini doesn't want him for the same reason as they don't want Marquez, they'd have to fire half their personnel, *and* deal with all of Rossi's entourage/baggage/groupies/etc.

I cant see Rossi going for anything other than a "Factory" team, even if it means staying with Ducati.

I'm pretty sure winning another race before he retires is more important than being on a factory team.  A factory spec Honda/Yam in either his own team or a satellite would have to have more appeal than being a backmarker for the last half decade of his career.  That's assuming Ducati doesn't somehow prove they can build a GP bike worth a darn.

I think the key for Rossi isn't so much a factory team, but more having factory equipment....so if he ends up riding something other than the Duc next year, you can bet it will be his leverage to get as much factory supported equipment as he can muster....he wants to win races and that to all of us is more than apparent...

There's no incentive for the factory to provide him with the latest and greatest equipment if he would beat the factory teams. repsol for one would not want to see Rossi on a factory supported Honda. Yamaha would be more willing to play ball.

Crutchlow on a Ducati....eeeWHHAATTTTT :o

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/June/jun2012-ducati-in-talks-with-crutchlow (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/June/jun2012-ducati-in-talks-with-crutchlow)
 [popcorn]

Was just about to post that too... I'd actually really rather him on another bike, shame to waste talent on the duc.

But I can't see yam giving him up to Ducati unless they resign Rossi to the factory team.  IMO he's way more marketable than dovi and spies just isn't having the kind of performance to support a factory slot.

+1 I would hate too see Crutchlow's career ruined by going to Ducati at this point. I think their might be internal debates within Yamaha about going after Rossi. Like the article stated, the bean counters would love to have him back to secure a real sponsor.

I think best possible scenario for yam would be lorenzo/Rossi factory, spies/cal tech 3... Keeping spies mostly for the marketing potential over dovi, who is a good rider... But kinda vanilla and I can't think of anyone who really cheers for him even though he always does pretty well.

It just if rossi's ego can take the hit knowing he won't be considered top dog in return for a bike he can ride... Along with a pay cut.  But yam really does need a heavyweight sponsor soon.

I wish Suzuki was on the table to come back this year though... Would make it interesting to see if Rossi would go to them

rossi has already been on a solo team in the past, and won.  if he does it again you can be sure the deal includes latest greatest throughout the year.

rossi didn't want to be lorenzo's teammate when he was.  that's no doubt even more true now..

and he would start fabricating his own bikes from scratch before he went to suzuki.

not the first time it's come up..


 

It's not a question about Rossi affording or wanting his own team. The politics involved with having HRC providing a factory bike specifically for Rossi would have consequences with Repsol. It was ok to provide for Sic, who was just starting and I'm sure Repsol was eyeing anyway. Rossi on a Honda will be competing for podiums that Marquez, and presumably Pedrosa, would be in line to take.

you mean like when they did this?

(http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/files/Honda_NSR500_Rossi_2000.jpg)

..and then the next year:

(http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/history/2001-Races/photo/images/02.jpg)

That was then. Now he's less of an investment, I.e. they have no idea when he'll call it quits. Plus Repsol seems to have more influence now with Dorna.

call it quits: at least not for 2 years.  and until then he still IS motogp.

One thing Rossi still most definitely is is marketable. I mean look at Yamaha still struggling for a major sponsor since he left. That alone speaks to his power over the sponsorship dollars in MotoGP.
And every time one of his major sponsors has left the sport altogether, he has come back with another big name to take its place.

Yamaha's major team sponsor for 2012: JX Nippon Oil and Energy Company (Who? I mean that isn't to say they aren't a huge corporation but again...who?)
Ducati's major team sponsor for 2012: Philip Morris, Telecom Italia, Generali, Enel, Riello, Shell, Diesel

And while Ducati may not be winning races, there is no doubt that they have one of the richest sponsorship lists in the paddock. And largely in part because of Rossi.

Honda is not Yamaha. They have the sponsors. Yamaha is desperate, but Rossi left because of Lorenzo and will not come back while he's there. They will not field a fifth bike, they are pleading the FiF. So what is left? Again, Rossi will not be able to bring a sponsor to compete with Repsol, so why would they give him a full spec bike that will just piss off Repsol, unless they are trying to get a large enough sponsor that is less vocal. in the end, Rossi will need to check his ego at the door. if he really wants to win again, I would do everything in my power to get back on a Yamaha. I might just try to bump Dovi off the Tech 3 bike.

Regardless if Rossi was beating the Repsols, and that's not a given, they would still be at the sharp end of the race and get race coverage.  As far as Honda goes, I doubt they care which bike of theirs is up front so long as it has a Honda badge on it.  I can't see Rossi going to a satellite team that won't even float the cash for brakes, unless Yamaha agreed to provide him factory equipment, which they've already stated they won't do for Tech3, let alone provide a 5th bike in the championship.  Rossi remains the figurehead of the series despite his results and all the manufacturers need him around in some capacity to boost their own viewership and sponsor dollars.  Rossi on a Honda seems the most likely scenario if he leaves Ducati. 

The bigger questions lie with Dovi and Spies.  Where do they go?  If Crutchlow goes to factory, and Bradley Smith is coming to Tech3 ( undeserved ), then one of them is going to be forced to sign with Ducati if Rossi defects.  Suzuki or another manufacturer really needs to rejoin the series or we're going to see wasted talent on the grid in the near future.  There are too many talented kids coming through the ranks along with established vets to contend for seats.  Its a win/lose scenario.  Someone will end up on the outside looking in.  You could already argue a case for Depuniet and Edwards if you cared to.

Perhaps Abraham's father should fire his own son and sign someone else.

HRC does not care, but Repsol and the Spanish twins sure as hell do.

Rossi on a Honda is a good fit only because they're the only ones willing to provide an additional bike, but at what cost? Would they be willing the alienate the most important sponsor of the series? He has a way back to Yamaha, not an ideal way, but it gets him back on "his" bike.

Outside of the factories is a total mess. CRT bikes suck balls and soon enough the vets will need to make some tough choices. I see many jumping ship to WSBK. It's a tough call, but like you mentioned, there are quite a few young guys that you can start building a team around. Ans speaking of undeserving, do you really think that Marquez' riding this year warrants a factory ride? Satellite yes, but not factory.

Depuniet is doing a decent job on the ART, but Colin can't seem to do anything with the Suter. CRT should follow Aprilia's formula. Just get some small manufacturers to build a whole bike (cheap) and sell it to whomever wants it. They will be able to build a package that can at least fight it out among the backmarkers.

I forgot to mention the spy photos of the Suzuki. The article said that they might be back in 2014.

i think marc, pol, and crazy joe all should be in GP next year in some shape or not-CRT-form.  and yeah, i think marquez deserves a factory ride.  but i always thought the rookie rule was nonsense.

'Rossi on a competitive bike next year'

"In 2013 we will see Rossi fight for the win... again." says Dorna boss

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-on-a-competitive-bike-next-year/20904.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-on-a-competitive-bike-next-year/20904.html)

So... Yam or Honda?  Because when he says competitive, he sure aint talking about ducati.

And I'm guessing this is the sign that Carmelo is finally stepping in during the negotiations to get Rossi the ride he needs to keep the series alive.

And maybe this is what Honda/Repsol had to give up in order to kill the rookie/4 bike per manufacturer rule.  They get Marquez in Repsol colors but Carmelo insists that Rossi gets a factory Honda?  It would explain a lot and why Dorna was so willing to move on something they were pretty dead set against before.

I would lean more towards the Honda than Yamaha at this point. Still interested to see what Ducati brings to the table in July. If the Ducati takes leaps towards being competitive with a rider other than Casey, does Rossi stay?

I haven't fully written Ducati off. Racing is their life. Don't they have more Corse employees than production employees? But unless they pull a complete 180 from where they are now, Rossi is gone from Ducati next season.

But I still disagree with you Carlos. I think sponsors that left when Rossi went to Ducati (Philip Morris being pretty adamant about the livery being theirs and theirs alone) would be more than willing to come back if they could have the larger portions of the bike for their logo. And I reiterate...Rossi may not be winning but he still is the face of MotoGP. I have friends who aren't into motorcycle racing at all who recognize Rossi but couldn't pick out Stoner or Lorenzo in a line-up of Stoners and Lorenzos.

I've never said that Rossi does not bring the sponsors, what I did say was that Repsol would be pissed off if Rossi got a factory Honda that would consistently beat the Douchebag Spanish twins. Thought aluded to something that I agree with. I think Dorna might have gone to Repsol and told them that they would abolish the Rookie Rule if they STFU when they made a deal with HRC to move Rossi onto a factory backed private team. The cost of getting their golden boy.

How is it that Yamaha can't pull any big sponsors? They have, by far, the most consistent bike on the grid. Lorenzo, Crutchlow and Dovi are almost always on screen, either following the leader or the battle between teammates. I understand that Lorenzo and Dovi are not the most outgoing of the bunch, but still, with that much airtime you would think that sponsors would be lining up around the corner.

that is a weird one..

perhaps.  but read that LCR interview on motomatters re the rookie rule.  complicated issue in the case of marquez; if he goes to LCR or Gresini, those teams - and sponsors - get blown up.  but only for a year.  makes no sense for anyone.

 
MAYBE it is how much Yammie is telling said potential sponsors would have to be ponying up up front and therefore scaring them away?!?!?!

I hope not. That is suicide if all of a sudden you're not getting the same results in subsequent years.

it's because valentino isn't there.

but to carlos' earlier point, it is fairly odd that they haven't picked up mid-level sponsor by now, like they did in wsbk in 2009.  sterilgarda was all over that after ben's 4th pole.  must be the GP price tag.

What I don't understand is the price tag portion.  Why wouldn't they lower the price for the sponsor?  Lets say they could get five million instead of ten million or whatever the price may be.  Wouldn't five be better than zero?

I think it depends on the marketing exposure they think they can yield from the expendature in that whole ROI index of things....

And this is why I dislike bean counters. If you look at it black/white it's a simple resolution: "we need a sponsor. we have the best bike on the grid and everyone knows it. our bikes are always on tv. let's lower our standards a bit to gain big name sponsors that will need to pay up the big bucks next year to have their logo next to the '1' plate".

http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120627m8usz.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120627m8usz.htm)

interesting....

Casey wouldn't bow down and play the Dorna game.

His ability was worthless to them.

SEVERAL articles on superbikeplanet.com today are hedging around Ducati maybe being Crutchlow and Rossi...

or not.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120627m8usz.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120627m8usz.htm)

"It's widely believed The Doctor will return to Honda in 2013 on a factory bike fielded by a satellite team, possibly a new, trick outfit run by Rossi."

UMM...I quoted that article here -> http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1076802#msg1076802 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1076802#msg1076802)

but since there have been these following articles...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628x.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628x.htm)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628-69.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628-69.htm)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628ruydernotes.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jun/120628ruydernotes.htm)

I don't believe for a second that Suzuki will be able to field a bike for Misano. Why would they do that? They have zero pressure and can take their sweet time to develop a bike for next year. Rushing into fielding a bike would be dumb. Watch me eat crow.

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

^^^ You beat me to it.  ;D

with multiple reports out there that Repsol has already signed marquez, i wonder how that jives with the common assumption that dani will still keep his ride.  since HRC has said there won't be 2 spaniards on that team, i mean.

Repsol seems to wear the pants in that relationship

JERRY MAGUIRE (Tom Cruise) - SHOW ME THE MONEY (clean edit) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaiSHcHM0PA#)

Ok, maybe I had a brainfart and just forgot the "oh, that's why Rossi can't ride for Repsol!" explanation. . . but why wouldn't Repsol want Rossi over Pedrosa?  Here's all I can come up with . . .

1.  Rossi will be significantly more expensive, but he's worth a ton more in marketing, even to Spaniards.  And they'll have Marquez, who is Spanish.

2.  Rossi talked shit about them after 2003 and they hold a grudge.

Is that it?!?  If so, snatch him up.

I believe Repsol really wants an all Spanish team. Obviously that's their market. HRC would be painted into a corner. I think any manufacturer/sponsor would be pretty much better off with Rossi at any stage of his career regardless of what he has said in the past.

...only if somebody on that team can win the championship. i'm sure they'd prefer that person be a spaniard (a la crivillé (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Àlex_Crivillé)), but if it takes an italian to do it, so be it.

don't underestimate the value of being able to directly compare your bike against others in race conditions.

But at what cost? From the article I read a few weeks ago, where they showed the spy photo, it sounded like Suzuki was not even sure what engine configuration they would use. I would think that they would have learned from Ducati that you should not develop a bike in a hurry. Nothing is impossible, but I'm not sure if the end justifies the means.

No matter the planning by motogp, I think Europe could financially implode by next year, with Spain and Italy being the hardest hit.  Repsol might be doing good just to be in business and not bought up.

mitt

exactly why a wildcard 1 off ride against the competition would be a great measuring stick to see where they are in development...

They actually mentioned this on the broadcast as one of the reasons that MotoGP will likely have a round in April in Argentina. 2 rounds in Spain will likely disappear. Repsol will be fine, but having 2 Spanish riders might put them in better marketing position.

or the press wasn't sure.

remember that the factory had a 1000 prototype ~complete before the accountants pulled the plug.

while they have already publicly softened on this point, don't underestimate #2.  shame in the japanese culture is a giant button.

but - HRC is a racing company.  and they hate not winning.  which is why i think there's all the talk about a new team of his own on factory honda machinery.  they get to win + they get to cut the corner on having him 'back'.

I read that they are limiting manufacturers to 4 bikes total next year.  So it looks like Rossi running his own team is gone.

except that carmelo (?! - so odd, at this point in the season) is talking about rossi on a competitive bike next year.  so that rule will have an asterisk.. or something.

Unless they give the Turd da boot

which means giving Puig the boot as well, which would make HRC happy...

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/181371/1/lorenzo_no_wall_if_rossi_returns_to_yamaha.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/181371/1/lorenzo_no_wall_if_rossi_returns_to_yamaha.html)

That would make everyone happy... ;D

Looks like rookie rule is officially gone.

MotoCRT..... [roll]



Ducati throwing in the towel....?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/ducati-engine-only-hope-keep-145505347.html (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/ducati-engine-only-hope-keep-145505347.html)



I say Rossi to Honda...he still has Agostini's totals in his sights and has two years without a win to make up for..

More Rossi throwing in the towel with Ducati and justifying his move.

Rossi sounds like a major whiner here. They've switched to a twin spar aluminum frame for him, and their getting him a revised motor with a less than 90* angle. Both firsts for Ducati. He's crazy if he thinks Ducati can knock it out of the park on the first try with things (like the frame) that they have zero experience with. He also knows they're not Honda, and can't develop and supply things as quickly as they can.

I understand that he wants to win, and I respect that, but it gets tiring listening to him complain about the bike.

"Not listening to the riders" and "No solutions" is hardly whining. It's no secret that I am a Rossi fan boy but he is making some pretty good points.

And Rossi not being able to ride the bike doesn't mean that Casey wasn't at 110% on that bike. Even the telemetry showed in several races that he had literally crashed several times per lap throughout the entire race. If that is a "good bike" then I am a unicorn that pisses rainbows and shits piles of Skittles.
The Ducati is shit and the shit isn't getting any less stinky.

It could be argued that Ducati have never listened to, or accommodated any rider as much as Rossi.

you could say that... you can also say "too little, too late"...

if they'd listened to nicky, or casey, or even bayliss, they might be closer to a solution by now.

I believe you're right about those guys, but I think they listened to Capirossi to an extent.
When they let Bayliss bring his SBK team with him for the last race, the bike was set up just right for him and he won. Those guys loved Bayliss and his result probably backs your argument.
But Rossi is a special case. I reckon he is doing the PR softening up of the public before he moves. Honestly, Ducati have moved heaven and earth for Rossi in comparison, I dont think he has a strong case to complain.

i was actually referring to bayliss' (semi-secret no laptimes) test of the 800cc bike, not his valencia victory on the gp6.

i also should've included melandri in my previous list of riders.

of course he does.  he knew he was in deep shit at valencia 2010.. it's a long time since then.

the PR job he's done was to be completely positive last year while running around in 10th.

You're right about Melandri, that bike wrecked his GP career.
I wonder if Ducati did or didn't listen to Bayliss when he tested the 800? I say that because he has a very forceful and particular riding style. Dont know what to think about that.

that's why after that test they went to checa.  who also said nothing.

stoner is a well-documented exception; he himself says he rode around constantly crashing.  MANY other riders have tried and failed.

rossi has 9 world titles on 3 manufacturers and 5 formats.  and he has jerry burgess.  if you've got that guy in your garage, and you're paying him $17 million, and your baseline design hasn't been cutting it for quite a while, do what the f he says. 

valencia 2010 the bike understeered and had rear grip problems.  it still does.

Exactly. I'm not saying Rossi isn't right, but it would seem they've bent over backwards for him. I'm just tired of hearing him whine about the bike is all. I don't know how anyone can really expect the new frame to fix everything, given that they have no experience with that set-up. They also don't have the resources of Honda or probably Yamaha.

If this was Stoner saying it instead of Rossi, people would be all over him!

It's obvious he's going to Honda. Now it's a question if Ducati will be able to capitalize for next year's bike. The Duc has ruined another career. Just goes to show that maybe Stoner's greatest legacy is being able to ride the beast. Just imagine what he could have accomplished with a sorted bike from the beginning.

I was thinkin' Honda.  But now, I'm not so sure he won't go back to Yamaha.  Lorenzo has started to publicly welcome him back, Rossi didn't burn any bridges there, it's the best bike in the paddock, Rossi already has shitloads of $ (other than that tax thing), Rossi will likely bring a title sponsor on board and I'm sure he'd love to go head to head with Lorenzo on the same machinery. 

some in the press heard george's welcome as a taunt.  rossi didn't want him in the same garage starting in 2008.  and while it wasn't honda 2003 by a long shot, jarvis was none too happy with rossi when he left.  so the bridges aren't exactly pristine. 

and i think this


is not the case.  different machinery = strengths at different tracks & at least the possibility of an edge if things are really close.

i suspect he's going to end up on marco's bike, poetically enough.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/07/02/nicky_hayden_on_cal_crutchlow_the_right_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/07/02/nicky_hayden_on_cal_crutchlow_the_right_.html)

Why does everyone assume they're offering up Hayden's bike? Maybe Ducati knows that Rossi is gone, and are offering up his bike? They let Hayden's contract expire, so I guess that's it, but if Rossi is leaving then I'd expect Hayden to stay and just get a new teammate.

"penciled in" probably means "if they can keep rossi".

plus, they can pay cal less than nicky and he's an unknown on that bike.. which means maybe he's the other guy that can win on it.

I doubt Nicky was getting alien money anyway. They know that Nicky won't get another factory ride, so they can string him along all they want. Vale and Cal will decide soon enough, so they if needed they'll make him an offer.

I hope he leaves Ducati.

Any guesses where he will end up?

Isn't this the same as the conversations going on in the silly season thread?

yes and... yes.  ;D

Yawnda to keep Pedrosa... again! If they sign Marquez too, Dorna will have a real credibility problem imo.

How do you figure? Why would Dorna care if the HRC/Repsol want to have an all Spanish team?

http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/07/05/2012_sachsenring_motogp_thursday_round_u.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/07/05/2012_sachsenring_motogp_thursday_round_u.html)

...and not a single word about Nicky.

Quite obvious they set the pecking order. Heard on FP1 coverage that there are rumors that Cal already signed the contract. If that is the case and Rossi's choices are slowly disappearing, then Nicky is up a creek. He mentioned that he has had some offers from WSBK. I would not mind seeing him on an 1199 next year.

For the same reason that Carmelo really wanted the Ben to ride a factory bike and is begging Rossi to stay, worldwide interest. Two Spaniards on a Spanish team, one of only 3 factory teams dominating Spanish owned and run MotoGP's isn't going to attract viewers. It looks a little "keep it in the family" doesn't it?

Maybe it's just me.

I don't get this silly season at all.

There are two riders for 2013 who can win a championship -- Rossi & Lorenzo.  Lorenzo is not marketing gold, but he's with Yamaha.  So that's done.  Rossi is marketing gold and can/will win a championship.  It is not in Honda, Dorna or Repsol's interest for Rossi to stay at Ducati or to go to a satellite bike (even a Honda).  It's not in Yamaha's interest to let him go go Honda.  WTF?   How is Dorna going to let their best asset stay on a Duc?   

Put Hayden on a Honda, and he is better than any non-alien 'cept Spies (Crutchlow is not *really* a known entity at this point).  Why would he go to WSBK?!?  Anyone who can should snap him up immediately.   

Crutchlow can't ride the Duc b/c no one can.  What's the advantage of a "factory" ride that routinely gets beaten by his current satellite team?

I's in Honda and Repsol's interest for Rossi to stay on the Duc, as he's no threat there.

I'm sure DORNA wants him on a Honda or Yamaha.

The only advantage of Ducati for Cal is that they're offering him a factory ride contract *now*.
Apparently he's not received any other factory offers.
He'd be better off staying put at Tech3, IMO.

remember carmelo's totally bizarre 'valentino will be on a competitive bike next year' statement ~last week.  something's already done or virtually done.

IIRC David Emmett tweeted that he thought Carmelo said that to make an Italian journo leave him alone.

ah.. that makes more sense.

If he's not going to ride a Honda, it *might* be in Honda's interest to have him on an uncompetitive machine.  But as between him on an uncompetitive machine and him on a Repsol, it's in their interest to have him on a Repsol.  He's their only real chance at a championship until Marquez develops (I'm less sold on Marquez than I was).  Besides, it's in no one's interest -- Honda and Repsol included-- to have Rossi be uncompetitive.  He is SUCH a draw for GP that they should want him competitive, even if it's against them. 

I wanna see him back on a Yamaha.  That'll leave The Ben out in the cold though, even though he's better than Dovi.

But... and I hate to say this... is Ben really better than Dovi?  Dovi's no champ and I just dont like him as much as I like Ben/Cal.  But Dovi is a solid 3rd/4th place finisher on both the honda/yam.  Ben... not so much results but a lot more potential/marketing.

To me, best possible scenario is this still... Rossi/Lorenzo factory, Cal/Ben tech3.  Dovi/Hayden Ducati.  If Cal says that winning a championship is what is driving him then he would be crazy to go to the duc.  A tech3 yam is lightyears ahead of anything duc can bring out unless some kind of miracle happens.

And I do wonder if it's something about the L4 layout that's doing this to the bike... they have literally changed almost every aspect of the bike except for that at this point and have only gotten the same results.  So the frameless concept might have been viable the whole time, but it was something totally different that was causing the issue?  So in the end if they ditch the L4, they could actually explore going back to the frameless bike?

Ill go with

Cal/Ben Ducati

Rossi/Jorge Yamaha

Marquez/Pedrosa Honda (i think they should ditch pedro, he'll never win a championship(but he will podium)

Hayden, Dovi T3

Pol Sat Honda

Er, isn't one of the Tech 3 seats already offered to Bradley Smith?

By all reports...

There's been talk of a performance clause, that he's got to finish 5th or better in Moto2 to get the upgrade.

But I haven't seen anything 'official'.

Totally forgot about Smith... that performance clause would make a lot of sense though.  I like him from what I've seen from moto2 but I personally am surprised he got the pick over some other riders in moto2.  And with the current amount of unsigned big name talent floating around in motogp I'm pretty sure that they would love to get out of that contract.

Currently, Tech3 riders are in 4th and 5th in the championship.
On satellite Yamahas.
Herve should be giggling like a schoolgirl 24/7/365.

If I were him I'd have both of those boys locked up with a contract before I'd consider an 8th place Moto2 kid.
Perhaps Cal and Dovi have refused his contract offers.

Given the current state of affairs, I'd take a satellite Yamaha over a factory Duc.
IMO, Cal's out of his make the beast with two backsin' mind to seriously consider any Duc in MotoGP.

In my book, yes.  Remember all those times they went head to head with Ben on a 1/2 to 1-year-behind-the-times satellite machine and Dovi on a factory Honda?  Ben got the better of him.   

That said, Dovi is consistent.  Never a threat to win, often a threat to podium. 

I really want to see what Hayden can do on a real bike.  Don't get me wrong.  I don't think he'll beat Lorenzo consistently, but he hasn't even had a fighting chance since 2006.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100943 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100943)

"Pedrosa has said that he'll renew with Honda HRC here or at Mugello? I knew the Repsol team would be Pedrosa and Marquez," Rossi told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"No problem, I wouldn't have gone there anyway."

Julian Ryder seems to think that The Ben^® is going to stay put as a factory Yamaha rider.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120707rydernotes.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120707rydernotes.htm)

I think Cal is ready to since on the Duc. Dovi has been better than Spies on the satellite. Spies gets demoted to Tech 3 or back to WSBK. Rossi's choices are getting thinner. I see this scenario:

Honda Spanish team
Yamaha Lorenzo/Dovi
Duc Rossi/Cal

Please be more careful about spoilers in this thread guys...

"More is obviously needed, Rossi said, as the problems can’t all be solved using setup. The Mugello test would be crucial, he repeated. Help could be coming his way from Audi; senior Audi management was at the track on Sunday, and met with Rossi to share their plans with him. They were extremely enthusiastic about Ducati’s MotoGP project, Rossi said, and were keen to have the Italian involved. They had not discussed any details, but Audi had made clear to Rossi that they were willing to make resources available and make the changes necessary for the bike to be fixed. Valentino Rossi, it appears, took a step closer to renewing his contract with Ducati at the Sachsenring."

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-summary-sunday-german-gp-2012/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-summary-sunday-german-gp-2012/)

Now that is interesting and might be enough for Rossi to stay and try one more year I think.  Having someone basically say "we're going to just throw a lot of money at the issue if you can stay to work it out" does bode well.  And for Audi, Rossi winning on a Duc basically represents the holy grail of marketing.

That being said, I'd still want him on a more competitive bike... and I would hate it if they dropped Hayden just as it seems they might be able to fix the issue.

Sorry dude, I modified my post

They don't care about Nicky or Cal. Audi will throw as much money as humanly possible to that bike. They will hire some engineers to basically turn it into an M1. But don't fool yourself, Rossi does not have many options left.

cal says there's no factory yamaha for him

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101107 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101107)

That sucks for Nicky...

You think he can pick up that vacant Tech3 seat?  I'd really like to see how he does on a bike that's sorted from the start... though unless he's amazing on that bike I'd say his days as a factory motogp rider are done if this goes the way it's looking.

I wonder if he could somehow pick up the empty factory yam seat.

the implication of the above article is that there isn't one

Seems like Rossi's at an important crossroad - either he goes with a bike that'll put him back on the podium asap so he can continue his racing career, or he becomes an Audi/Ducati test rider disguised as a MotoGP racer...

Anyone get clarification on why Bayliss recently hung up his test-rider leathers?

Not counting the aliens, who else has been on the podium, and how many times, over the last four years?

Dovi a bunch of times, and won a wet race.
Spies 5 podiums, and won a *dry* race at Assen last year.
Nicky on the podium a time or two.
Melandri got a 2nd on the Hayate.
Edwards got a podium with a week-old broken collarbone IIRC.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120707feat.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120707feat.htm)

yep

 [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

...although Hayden getting fired could be the best thing for his career if he ends up on a better bike.

That's the issue. He's not getting any offers from anyone, even the satellites. His best offers are coming from WSBK. I'm sure that the Ducati WSBK team would greatly appreciate him coming over there. Where would he go in MotoGP? Satellite Duc? All the Hondas and Yamahas are taken or close to it.

Yep, his only chance of winning a championship again is in WSBK.

Ducati MotoGP, MotoGP satellite teams, & MotoGP CRT teams all not good enough for a championship. I'd love to see him on an 1199 in WSBK!  [thumbsup]

loyalty is overrated Nicky. [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

Yeah it is frustrating. It's all kind of bittersweet though.

It helps me understand better, why Stoner is leaving. It isn't about the racing anymore. It's about the money, sponsorship, and glamour. Where Rossi goes, the sponsors/cameras go.

On the other hand, Hayden wasn't doing anything to fix the bike. If anybody fixes it, Rossi/Burgess will be the ones to do it funded by a deep wallet (Audi).

It still blows because Hayden deserves a better bike. He's a make the beast with two backsing work horse with a lot of potential IMHO

Sure he was...he was testing the hell out of it for them. I'm guessing he had some ideas as well.

True, but who says they would listen to Nicky?. It's all about Rossi. The Rossicentric paradigm is giving me the shits. Nicky would podium regularly on a Yamaha or Honda. Maybe Suzuki might save his GP career?

On that note, both Suzuki and Ducati were mistaken straying too far from what they know. Ducati are building to the rules and a tyre. I blame the tyre rules.  Remember  when a tyre was built for the bike? The control tyre causes technical convergance, I liked the technical variety with tyres built to suit.  It's the technical interest that makes GP what it is.

Agreed. According to Rossi they aren't even listening to him.

Nicky is a solid employee, doing what's expected of him and what he's paid for.  Solid employees get shown the door all the time, unfortunately, to make room for the "new kid in town".

Ducati's investing in Crutchlow not so much for next year but for the bike that they're hoping Audi/Ducati/Rossi will produce.  By then, Hayden would be 33-34 and, in their eyes, too old.

I agree with all of you - Nicky will have a lot of fun, and success, in WSBK.  He's a better rider, imo, than most of the guys over there right now.

Those of us  brought up old school, hate seeing this stuff. Honour is a dying concept nowdays and I've always respected Nicky. At least he has been world champion.

+1 to that.

Good on Nicky if he gets a ride over in WSBK. I'd like to see Colin Edwards over there too.  I'm just about done watching the MotoGP BS anyway. The series is in a death spiral.

imagine if you would for a minute...Nicky does go to WSBK...does VERY well ( maybe even gives a serious run for a title for real within a 2 year deal on a works bike)...CRT takes over GP and all the olde guard come to WSBK while CRT-GP becomes the graduated Moto2 landing zone to decrease the 30+ bike Moto2 grid and increase the CRT-GP grid....real possibility?

2013 WSBK Ducati 1199 - Checa/Hayden  [thumbsup]

+1

Thats what I'm thinking too... and I wonder if they could move back to a CF frame with the 1199 just to see if it would work.  I'd be happier seeing Hayden on a competitive WSBK bike vs a craptastic MotoGP bike.

can't do that unless they homologate a CF frame 1199R version with CF frame due to the homologation rules....

Are we already assuming that the frameless 1199 will be shitty?

I actually think it'll do pretty well... maybe not the first teething year as it's totally new tech for them but it should give the bmw/ape/kawi a run for it's money in the straights now.

I just hope that the loss of lower end torque wont change the nature of the bike too much for the WSBK riders.

And I think we'll almost def see a 1199r.

+2  [thumbsup]

no...just saying that since that portion of the bike is technically the frame and you have to have a homologated frame for to race with....in order to have a legally racable CF framed bike, they'de have to homologate a CF framed bike, which would most likely be incarnated in an "R" spec model...

no, but there have been grumblings that checa's test made him less than happy

(http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Ducati-1199-Panigale-S.jpg)

Is there any article about this?

If the 1199 motor makes power more like the I4s then maybe Hayden is the perfect match for the WSBK 1199.

it's not like he doesn't have experience w/ big twins. he won an ama super bike championship on an rc51.

Officially an all Spanish team.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/pedrosa+and+marquez+to+race+together+in+Repsol+Honda

HRC backed down...

behold the power of Repsol money. ;D

yes... however i can't find it atm.  did confirm with someone else last night that they'd at least seen it however  ;)

i get HCR/Japan's take on that issue.. but Spain and Italy are GP mecca and they both are hurting.  this is a good thing for the country as a whole. 

plus they can all stop pretending they like george now   ;D
 
 

It's a no brainer for both. Repsol is probably the biggest sponsor in all of MotoGP and they're only in Spain. Honda wants to sell bikes everywhere, but will never put themselves in the position to lose Repsol.

and as effed up as the rookie rule repeal thing is, it just literally saved a whole bunch of jobs & sponsor dollars at gresini and LCR

I'm very, very DISAPPOINTED!!  [bang]

MotoGP just got a lot less interesting for me.

Who cares?!?! If Marquez ends up being the second coming, then why should anyone be disappointed?

'cuz he's a douche?

GP already pretty much sucks.

Dorna changing the rules to suit the situation makes it even less credible.

As much as I think Casey is a whiner about some things...

he's doing the right thing in bailing on that series.

+1

For all his whinning, it's very entertaining to watch his race.

I agree that it sure looks that way...but the rookie rule was dumb. Teams should be able to hire whoever they want to ride their bikes.

I agree Marquez is a douche...a fast douche, but a douche nonetheless. It could get interesting if he tries to punt some of the GP riders like he's done in Moto2.  [coffee]

...and they should be able to buy tires from whomever they want too.

The premise of cost cutting is laughable. The rules are what they are to try and level the field to promote more exciting racing.

It is no longer pure prototype racing, and the way Dorna is running things it isn't effective in making the racing any better.

I'd like to see Colin get his hands on him.  ;D

why is this so disappointing - no rookie rule or 2 spaniards?  i don't get it.

ok, but what is?

Two Spaniards (one they had to bend the rules for), on a Spanish team's bike in a Spanish owned and run series riding an utterly dominating bike. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

ah, gotcha.

btw - if a win gets you a tick in the dominated category, so far this year honda and yamaha are tied.

exactly...

Dorna took over and killed it.

If you really want motogp to remain interesting, then Marquez to the factory Honda is the way to go.  We need the best young talent on the best bikes so Lorenzo doesn't disappear into the twilight every other race.  I personally like Pedrosa, but we'll see if he stays healthy this whole year if he can truly put up the challenge needed to pressure Lorenzo.  There is no other option after this season unless Audi's money dump into Ducati and Rossi accelerates that bike's development over the next 9 months.  Lorenzo was stupid fast out of the gate, but too reckless to contend.  I think Marquez will be the same animal. 

Btw it looks like Rossi is leaning towards keeping his seat ( only option? ) at Ducati.

Lorenzo, Simoncelli, Marques. Same rider different year. All reckless and hungry. Need to be that way if your ever going to make it to GP.

george's first year in GP: 1 win, 6 podiums, 4 poles, finished 4th.  that's contending.

how many crashes/highsides?

total or just in races?  ;D

enough to finish 4th.  =)

Pedrosa is going to be the longest tenured rider at the *same* factory to never win a championship -- 8 9 years by the end of his latest contact.  I don't know my GP history, but that's gotta be some kinda record for modern GP racing.  They passed over Rossi for HIM??

Let's put things in perspective a bit...

http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2012/GER/MotoGP/table5.pdf?v1_69d7d325 (http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2012/GER/MotoGP/table5.pdf?v1_69d7d325)

While I respect the hell out of some of those guys, until they are dancing with the premier class numbers the top 3 there have posted up, I am not worried about Rossi's legacy as the GOAT being tampered with.

And while I won't argue that there are riders who have years that can't be touched, Rossi has had a career that can't be touched. Next year will bring changes...as in titanic scale changes. Audi wanted 2 things out of the merger.
1. The carbon credits for production that Ducati will allow them to have to keep on producing things like the Veyron and the R8...
2. And to broaden the scope of their competitiveness with BMW.

I don't think they are going to continue to let BMW trounce them in WSBK and keep close to them respectively in MotoGP. Audi will throw resources at the problems that Ducati couldn't afford to alone.

"The signing of Marquez and Pedrosa provides another major part of the puzzle in MotoGP’s Silly Season for 2013, but some key question marks remain. Mugello was expected to be the place where Cal Crutchlow put pen to paper on a contract with Ducati, but the Englishman is still waiting. The ball, Crutchlow said, is in Ducati’s court, and he is waiting for the Bologna factory to give him a contract to sign. “Everything is discussed,” Crutchlow told reporters. “We have some paperwork to go through, but we don’t have any paperwork at the moment.” While most paddock insiders expected the deal to be done here in Italy, Crutchlow said that he had known since Germany that nothing would be signed at Mugello.

The delay at Ducati opens some intriguing possibilities. Where previously, most paddock insiders had expected Nicky Hayden to lose his ride to make way for Crutchlow – something which apparently Hayden also expected, given his remarks in Germany – the delay could open more opportunities for the American. Hayden was marginally more upbeat about his prospects at Mugello than he had been at both the Sachsenring and Assen, which may have something to do with the talks he had with Audi bosses in Germany.

They did not discuss details, Hayden said, but it had been a positive meeting, and Hayden had come away impressed with Audi’s enthusiasm for the project. Audi, in turn, may be impressed with Hayden’s sales potential in the US, and with Ducati’s sales already up 26% in the second quarter in one of Ducati’s most important markets, having an American rider may become more important for the Italian factory."

www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-summary-thursday-italian-gp-2012/ (http://)

last minute reprieve for hayden?

Repsol wills it.

Let's all (Ducati MotoGP fans) hope that Audi brings more to the R&D department than silver paint....the probability of success for this kind of technical merger -- between one company that hasn't done racing-on-two-wheels and another that, with mildly justifiable arrogance, is a pioneer and perennial champion in racing-on-two-wheels -- probably has a 50% chance of producing success on the track.

I don't see money as the solution to this problem, if that were the case then Honda would have solved their chatter problem long ago.

And, it'll probably take a year for Audi's engineers to get up to speed on motorcycle technology, assuming Ducati's engineers are in a sharing mood - after all, national pride is at stake.

I expect the same kind of teething problems from Audi as BMW had trying to get their engineers to understand that car TC is different than bike TC.

But having the extra money and production capabilities cant hurt.

Yes - I hope they held the first redesign meetings yesterday....

as I have said before and I will restate...the thing I see being brought to the table from Audi in the whole regard to GP aside from $$$ is the resources for fabrication that currently Ducati does not have inhouse that Yamaha and Honda do...Ducati is in a grey area having things fabricated by a 3rd party which is holding them at bay in stalling some development because ( iirc ) Suter is the maker of some of those pieces and they are also dealing with other customer demands in CRT and Moto2 which limits their resources and turn around time....Audi can potentially bring some of that back in house as it were and churn that stuff out in a faster timeframe than what is currently being done using what they have already to do so....since so much of this is now engineered on a computer in a CAD oriented setting...simply sending it over to Germany to have it fabricated should be pretty simple right?...at least alot simpler than having Suter do it...

That's only if you have experience fabricating motorcycle frames, specifically in AL. Ducati can build a trellis frame, no problem. Audit can build an AL frame for a car. I do agree that now they should be able fab other items quickly. To tell you the truth I would not be surprised if they decide on building a frame around the motor, but that will take at least a year.

what Audi brings in most likely very quickly is the computer modelling for AL frames.

ben back to wsbk?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120717b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120717b.htm)


and nicky says no, so far

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120717d.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120717d.htm)

;D Just noticed this!

OK, I haven't slept much over the past few days....


Garbage in, garbage out.

that's the point of Audi, they have the good data to plug in to the computer models.

I fail to see how Audi brings anything except money. They have no motorcycle experience. Look how long it has taken BMW to become competitive in WSBK, and they HAD motorcycle experience.

ducati is stepping into a material it has no structural experience with, AL.
so with Audi's knowledge of AL as a frame and it's modeling program it will help immediately with frame modeling and AL frame dynamics.
IMO  ;)

Possibly.

Ducati currently has help with their Aluminum frame though, so I'm not sure how much Audi can help. We'll see...I hadn't thought of it that way.

I think dropping the 90* V configuration may solve their problems though. We'll know shortly.

I honestly think if Dorna wants Ducati back in it, they have to drop the bore limit.
A supershort stroke V2 or V4 (not L) would allow the motor to be more compact allowing it to be pushed forward in the chassis.
A superquadroquadro ;)

They will never get the engine speed they need with a 2 cylinder and they aren't restricted from a more compact engine by the bore limitation on a 4 cylinder layout. In fact, increasing the bore might even limit their compactness with respect to engine weight placement. Honda is having no such problems. Rather it seems that there are other self imposed limitations that they should deal with apart from the ones set by Dorna and the Manufacturers association.

no...actually Ducati has their same in house designers at Corse working in CAD oriented programs and shuffling those designs off to Suter to have them built (and then suffering the waiting game that they are as I stated before)...so IMHO as I understand it...they kinda really don't...so what Raux is suggesting is just as strong an idea as anything else we have speculated....but it will be interesting indeed to see if the revision that is being implemented at Laguna actually provides any kind of result even though all commentaries post testing up to this point seem to point at maybe not so much....

hmmmm

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/182031/1/valentino_rossi_marlboro_and_yamaha.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/182031/1/valentino_rossi_marlboro_and_yamaha.html)

well...then I guess we'll throw out the idea of Hayden to Tech3 then as long as we are lobbing rumor grenades out there...LOL

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120718wa.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120718wa.htm)

dovi to wsbk.  or back to honda.  or something.

Hayden and Dovi on WSBK Ducati???

I'd hate to see 'em go, but there are worse jobs.

That'd spice up WSBK a bunch!

Basically would ruin motogp as a viewing experience... even worse than it is right now (barring moto2/3)

I cant see Dovi getting a gp championship but he would be pretty competitive in WSBK I feel... same with Hayden.

what if iannone and espargaro were there?  or viñales, fenati, and (the other) rossi in a couple years.  there's plenty to be excited about in the gp pipeline.
 

I like Iannone...

Excited?  :-\

I'm excited. 

Wait, wrong thread...

 :D

grudgingly, curmudgeonly interested?

 :P

I'll give you that. [laugh]

change/same

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120720-22mn1.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120720-22mn1.htm)

Good article. Someone finally sticks up for Hayden!  [thumbsup]

The GP13....the real reason why Audi bought Ducati


http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=58489349-a8ff-4973-b56c-b5317f614c37 (http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=58489349-a8ff-4973-b56c-b5317f614c37)

Spies done with Yama......

PESARO - Valentino Rossi Ducati ready to leave and come back next year riding a Yamaha, the factory team alongside Jorge Lorenzo, bringing with her ​​a rich dowry of a generous sponsor. The agreement will be formalized later, but meanwhile in the next Grand Prix at Laguna Seca Yamaha should announce the end of the relationship with Spies. Negotiations between Rossi and Yamaha was started some time ago and Rossi will become the face of the tip of the Monster brand, which produces energy drinks, recently purchased by Coca Cola. An overall 20-million. MB

Original article found here - http://www.ilmessaggero.it/sport/altrisport/spies_lascia_la_yamaha_pronta_la_moto_per_rossi/notizie/209341.shtml (http://www.ilmessaggero.it/sport/altrisport/spies_lascia_la_yamaha_pronta_la_moto_per_rossi/notizie/209341.shtml)

Plausible..... But Italian source... So wait and see IMO

Rossi becomes the highest paid pimp in history for crack-laden sugar water!  Future senior-citizen MC fans can all thank "The Doctor" when the entire fanbase comes down with Type II diabetes   ;D

I'll believe it when I see it from a better source. For now, it's just another Rossi to Yamaha rumor.

You guys are cracking me up. You were all worked up by the way Honda dumped Hayden and now you're all worked up by the way (seemingly) that Ducati is. Maybe any future Hayden contracts should be open ended and at the discretion Nicky?

He's had his go, time to let someone else play with the toys.

I finally agree with you. It took some years, but I think that the GPx has claimed another career victim. You can talk about his work ethic and everything else, but it's time for him to move on.

nope, i was happy when he left honda (ditto for rossi). i was appalled at the way they treated him on the way to his world championship.

David Emmett lays out Rossi's options:

http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/07/23/whither_valentino_just_where_will_rossi_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/07/23/whither_valentino_just_where_will_rossi_.html)

[thumbsup]

SPIES LEAVING YAMAHA!!!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120724spiesnoy.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120724spiesnoy.htm)

Rossi to Yamaha.

Maybe Suzuki is going to have a team next year for Spies.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120724spiesnoy.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120724spiesnoy.htm)
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-spies-chooses-to-leave-yamaha-for-new-chapter-in-13 (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-spies-chooses-to-leave-yamaha-for-new-chapter-in-13)

Crazy!

Not that crazy.  And I doubt he's "quitting."  I'm really interested to see where he ends up.  For my viewing pleasure, I'd like to see him back in WSBK.  But isn't Suzuki coming back?  ;)

If Yamaha picks Dovi over Rossi (or even Crutchlow), they're nuts.  

Maybe he set a deadline when he expected an offer that never came.

...there's a question mark in the thread title because?  i suppose that statement leaves a little wiggle room, but not much.

+1 on wsbk.

ducati, i bet there's a good chance they keep nicky.

I don't see Rossi going back to Yamaha. For one they don't need him, and two they cant afford him unless Marlboro agrees to pay him what he wants and also sponsor Yamaha. But then Ducati wouldn't be able to compete without Marlboro's sponsor, unless Marlboro sponsored both. I actually think Dovi might get it.

It would be nice to see Spies in WSBK, but I doubt Dorna wants to lose Spies to them. It will be really interesting to see what happens. One thing is for sure, motogp next year is going to be a change


I guess the question mark is because it hasn't officially been announced yet. And with everything happening this season, who knows what might pan out  [laugh]

a) 'yamaha doesn't need valentino' -- you be crazy. 

b) it's all Dorna/Bridgepoint.  same group owns both.

a) maybe

b) didnt know that

what i mean is for a), any/every team in GP needs valentino.  he IS motogp.  he can run around in 10th for 2 years yet he still brings in the crowds.  he's elvis.

true, what I meant was, maybe I am crazy.

But the fact remains that they cant afford him. UNLESS a sponsor jumps in with the money. And thats not all entirely impossible either though. If anyone can pull the money it would be him. And perhaps thats what hes doing right now and the reason he has not made a decision yet?

I wouldnt mind Ben going back to AMA and dominating. That would be fun. I doubt he would though. I imagine the money is quite a bit less. Even though he'd be doing what he loves, he's still got to make a living

that'd be boring as hell...

 [laugh] i was waiting for someone to speak up on that

not to mention he's won there 3 times already and the series is not what it was then, to put it mildly.

AMA would be embarrassing. 

If he's not picked up by a satelitte team, then he'll go to WSBK. I wouldn't mind seeing him battle over there. He's still very young and just because he had an off year does not put him out on the pasture.

This does open up room for Rossi to head back to Yamaha, if he can secure a big name sponsor. Like mentioned above and in the article in the Silly Season thread, it most likely would not be Malboro. Too much baggage. At least Rossi can definitely use this as leverage to not only get some changes for the bike, but possibly to get rid of Preziosi.

...or Marlboro/Yamaha is already done and they promptly shut the door on ben, which pissed him off enough to leave.

This sounds like it to me. Why else would he just quit a factory MotoGP team? Bad year sure, but he knows every year doesn't go your way.

I've read that Monster might be another option. Since it is one of his sponsors already. I don't know how deep there pockets are though.

and all indications, from he and yamaha, were that he was going to be re-signed.
 

it definitely sounded like he was upset with Yamaha through his email with the exception of a few people

Maybe some at Yamaha, the people he exempt, were pushing for him to stay. In the end, Yamaha has to weigh their options and with Lorenzo pretty much dominating and the satellites not too far behind, they can't justify keeping him around

maybe the video turned out worse than last year.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120724newyvi.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120724newyvi.htm)

This is silly season material...

what a silly season this is  [cheeky]

interesting observation of the Ben...

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/trackside-tuesday-ben-spies-yamaha-discontent/#more-33346 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/trackside-tuesday-ben-spies-yamaha-discontent/#more-33346)

This.

Pretty crazy moves happening everywhere... and I'd love to see BMW/Suzuki come back in 2013 and make it even crazier.

and also...

yam: Lorezo/Rossi?
tech3: smith/dovi?
ducati: cal/spies?

hayden wsbk?

I doubt these predictions....

from what we know...I'll throw out my oddball off the wall guess though...cause it'll seem about as valid as reality currently...

Ducati = Rossi/Crutch
Yamaha = Jorge/Dovi
Tech 3 = Smith/Hayden

imo no way is yamaha going to give dovi a factory ride, deserving or not.

yup.  merge?

I think all of Yamaha's eggs are in the Rossi basket. If Rossi stays and Crutchlow goes to Ducati, then who else but Dovi? Both Nicky and Dovi have similar riding styles and Dovi is currently racing a Yamaha for good results.

Or The Ben thread.

agreed.  my comment has more to do with marketability, popularity, and other non-racing factors.

They might try to sign Nicky to Tech 3 just to appease Yamaha USA.

also agreed.  just like ducati may try to keep him if valentino is on a yamaha.

...as i was saying ;)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120726b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120726b.htm)

More bluffing going on here than in the World Series of Poker  ;D

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120726a163.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120726a163.htm)

Srsly, this silly season has been ridiculous so far.  I feel like I'm following some show on bravo not motogp.

Maybe Hayden loves the new setup and Rossi not so much on the new eng., etc.   [popcorn]

 [thumbsup]

So what does Silly Season look like right now (i.e. pre-Laguna): 

Yamaha -- Lorenzo/Rossi
Honda -- Marquez/Stoner
Tech3 -- Smith (why, oh why?) / RDP
Ducati -- Hayden / Crutchlow
LCR  -- Bradl
Gresini -- Bautista
The "piece of shit" -- Colin

WSBK -- Dovi, The Ben (or to pedal bikes)

Oops.   ;D

Rossi mentioned that he had 3 options in MotoGP.

I can't figure what the third one is.

If Rossi bails from Ducati, I think that Jeremy Burgess's input would have had a lot of influence on his decision.

Factory Honda with Gresini?  Hell, Tech 3 would take him in a heartbeat if Yammie would let him.  Then again, if Yammie is gonna put him on their bike, they'll do it on the factory team, especially since Lorenzo (at least publicly) hasn't nixed it.  Also, Tech3 can't afford him and his crew. 

I think if Burgess has Rossi leave Ducati it's for one of two reasons, one: he hasn't had the input he wants into the bike or two:he's had all the input done and it still sucks.

either way, Burgess and Rossi leaving Ducati should be egg on their face after talking crap about Stoner.

he's already openly said he can't ride the bike the way stoner did.  he threw in the towel on that comment quite a while ago.

other than that, i think it's more the former.  they've had lots of input but either they've ignored the most significant requests or been told "no".


as for three options for rossi, well, there are really only 3 bikes on the grid, so...  ;)

TOLD YA       [cheeky]


http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Hayden+renews+Ducati+contract (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Hayden+renews+Ducati+contract)



 [thumbsup]

stoked! [beer]

 [thumbsup] [clap] [Dolph] This is great news!

Makes me happy.  ;D

Wonder who his team mate will be? :P

some brit

after fp 2 I think I might agree with you. ;)

Italian press saying Spies to BMW WSBK 2013

http://www.moto.it/MotoGP/spies-torna-in-superbike.html#.UBQ0L1u1r8E.facebook (http://www.moto.it/MotoGP/spies-torna-in-superbike.html#.UBQ0L1u1r8E.facebook)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120728b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120728b.htm)

i think this comes down to 1 thing: fun.  he had a lot of it in 2009, not so much since then.

lots of other factors of course.. rookie rule/not, public lack of support from the team's managing director, probably a contract that went on hold just as he was going to sign, the notoriously chilly atmosphere in the GP paddock & it's euro-centrism, blah blah. 

but that can all be boiled down to not having fun.  he's already rich.  if you're going to go risk your life on a daily basis, it better be in a place you dig. 

Hitting the nail on head, for all these guys and for everyone else, too  [thumbsup]

Stoner spies. who is next to get off the no fun gp ride

@motomatters tweets, some interpretation going on..

Rossi Italian TV via @manziana : Biggest problem is heating front tire. If we solve this Ducati can be competitive

Rossi Italian TV via @manziana: I think Preziosi will stay in Ducati, I am going on holiday for a week to have a good think

Rossi Italian TV via @manziana : They have fixed their problems in Ferrari, but not in Ducati. If Ferrari can fix it, then Ducati can too.


..also supposedly the offer this year is actually less.  12MM rather than 17.  not that it matters.

who gets the 5mm? [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Looking at Rossi's options from the other direction:

Pedrosa and Marquez signed 2-year deals, so Rossi is locked out of Factory Honda 'til 2015.

Lorenzo signed a 2-year deal, so he's there until 2015.
It doesn't seem that Yamaha does 1-year contracts... can anyone recall? Derby?
My hypothesis is that if Rossi doesn't sign with Yamaha, they'll sign Crutchlow for 2 years, so Rossi will be locked out 'til 2015 there.

Suzuki/BMW/Kawasaki/KTM/<insert manufacturer> aren't going to amount to a hill of beans in that timeframe....

So, it's mano-a-mano against the best rider left in MotoGP, on the same bike, for the rest of his career....

or bet the farm on Ducati coming up with the goods.

i think one of the most salient issues with ducati is how fast they (don't) get new stuff turned around.  yeah i know, fraction of the size of honda, yadda yadda.  but there is a lot of smoke in that message vs how slowly things really are moving.  this race was going to be the 'major changes' race; the new ecu wasn't quite buttoned up after mugello so then.. nothing?  honda was there with a whole new bike.

moreso than "we're so small!" i think there is a culture within corse to a) believe that you were right in the first place at all costs and b) to the extent that you are willing to vaguely consider that (a) may not be 110% accurate, ever so slightly change things, very very slowly, in a sort of comically analytical fashion.  the bike has the same problem today that it did after valencia in 2009.  you've gotta be kidding me.

i was a huge proponent of rossi making the move.  going out by winning on a duc, for him, is the most poetic swansong anyone could have come up with.  however, shit aint working.  and he can still win.  i believe he can still race like catalunya 2009.  but he sure as hell can't do it here.

sure, maybe audi has promised the world.  but big ass companies don't turn on dime, especially when it comes to mergers.  maybe they can turn it around, but if i were valentino i would have had it by now with the leathers testing thing.


 -- and all the more credit to nicky.

This makes me very happy! Now if I could just find where I could find a motogp.com equivalent for WSBK I would be in heaven!

Seeing as all signs are for Rossi going back to Yamaha....

Who's the next rider stepping in front of the Big Red Bus?

Crutchlow.  Or Iaonne or Pol Espargao.  I can't see Dovi actually doing it, especially after that bike broke so many otherwise awesome riders.  But who knows who'll be the next idiot who convincies themself that they can tame the untameable beast. <shrug>

If Crutchlow is offered #1 rider money, then expect him to roll himself under it. If not, then I have no clue.

from a purely objective look at riding styles, i would not peg dovi as likely to be successful on the duc.

Ianonne...would at least be interesting to watch him ride it!  [thumbsup]

I think it'll be Cal though...and he'll finish in 6th-8th position consistently.

Ianonne has also been tipped for the new satellite squad.

Ducati should bring in the craziest, fastest, most unpredictable rider on the road that has balls of steel and can live through fire.





















 [Dolph]

Guy Martin

Ianonne will ride the piss out of it until he beans it on the first corner.

Or bring Casey back.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/08/03/valentino_rossi_spotted_at_yamaha_s_euro.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/08/03/valentino_rossi_spotted_at_yamaha_s_euro.html)

You're late.


 ;D

too many threads... I missed that and the date screwed me up ... oh well!!   [roll]

Crazy Joe should definitely be moving to GP and the Ducati would be a great place for him to start

true, the rossi v ducati thread has become focused on the switch

the derby thing getting you down?  ;D

http://motomatters.com/news/2012/08/04/rectification_rossi_at_yamaha_story_a_ho.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/08/04/rectification_rossi_at_yamaha_story_a_ho.html)

and the rossi roller coaster continues... haha

Motomatters yet again show their class with that retraction. I'm sure they will get it right when Vale actually announces he's going to Yamaha.

Emmett is a good man, indeed.

I beleive he could ride it beyond the limits and get results like Casey did....but they would hate to deal with the PR nightmare that is his very honest and unfiltered languange and opinion....

That was my thoughts on Guy for MotoGP... it's way too pr driven to have him as a viable rider.

There's worse pr nightmare than always finiahing last of the gp bikes and having a few crt bikes beat yours

then again...I could see Guy needing close captioning for his ranting off and they could neuter his commentary that way?!?!?!?

I can only understand about half of what he says anyway

who cares what he says... except "I won"

It's official:  http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Rossi+back+to+Yamaha (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Rossi+back+to+Yamaha)

I just had a though... Ducati should grab Stoner after the season and have him test the GP13.
See if they went in a better direction or not.

Stoner would tell them to pound sand for sure.

actually i think everyone, including stoner and ducati, knows that casey is not the measurement tool that should be used for that bike.

Closer to seeing Dovi on the career killer?

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/08/12/andrea_dovizioso_a_two_year_deal_with_du.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/08/12/andrea_dovizioso_a_two_year_deal_with_du.html)

Pretty good of him to get the guaranteed support from Audi, that would def be a deal breaker if that wasnt included.  But... I still say 2 years before it's competitive.... Dovi is just going to be their development rider imo.

I agree 100%.  Stoner is a very unique talent, with an aggressive rear end style that can ride around a myriad of problems and still be stupid fast.  He rides the Honda the same way he did the Duc, even though the Honda is clearly capable of a smooth style like Pedro uses.  Casey gets that bike to buck and squirm, although its not necessary.  Its just his way.

Stoner's once in a generation ability doesn't translate to the style that 99% of other riders use.  While his input and ability to quickly diagnose problems is superb, I wouldn't say any bike is good just because he went fast on it.  You need more than his testing to know the truth.

+1 Right now they just need a guy that will give them decent feedback. Even with Audi's help, they will depend on the clowns that are running the place for any real work until the Audi engineers get up and running. Are there any german engineers outside of BMW that have any experience with motorcycle racing at a significant level?

You'd think they could get some pretty decent feedback from a former world champion as well.

I'm talking Nicky

Nicky and Stoner were ignored for years, both world champions. Nicky is not as vocal as Stoner or Rossi.

Closest thing I can think of is KTM for their offroad stuff but they're austrian... and if you count austrians then rotax maybe?

The other interesting thing about the JV teams is that if the moto2 guys can get used to riding the duc quickly we might be able to see the satellite teams podium on a regular basis.

Kinda like Tech 3? That's who Ducati is using as an example.

'blank sheet' effect of first year of the 800s + michelin crash & burn + bridgestone slow and steady improvement + thursday tire rule + "rocket barely under control via electronics" + stoner magical ability that no one recognized as such for about 4 years = monumental ducati hubris that they are just beginning to shed, having left several careers in the dust along the way

Well, isnt tech3 just doing a lot better this year because it's the 1st year as the 1000cc's so the hardware is a lot closer to the factory teams?  By next year I can see them dropping back quite a bit because they'll be on Lorenzo's bike from this year.

What Duc's JV teams sounds more like is more of a 4 bike factory team... does Yam run tech3 the same way?  I just thought it was just the normal satellite hand me downs for them.

That's what I thought until I read a few different articles that alluded that the tech 3's are using similar bikes as the factory team, except maybe for the brakes that Dovi had to buy.

correct.  the tech 3 bikes are always ~close, but they aren't factory spec.  kinda like barbera's bike now.

ducati is proposing they change that model and basically hand out 4 factory bikes so they have twice the amount of feedback

edit:

@carlos, right, this year especially they are maybe even closer.  but there's a few ponies missing for sure.

Has there been any word yet on who will be on the satellite ducs yet though?  It's posited as Iannone and Redding right now right?

I wonder, if this strategy turns out to work really well and the GP13/14 development accelerates to the point that it becomes a viable podium finisher, would Yam/Honda wind up doing the same thing to keep the arms race in parity.  Would be great to have a grid of 12 factory spec bikes duking it out vs just the 6 usual factory riders.  Especially when you factor in that some of those riders will be hungry rookies really wanting to push that extra bit for the win.

3 out of the 4 Yamaha/Honda satellites aren't much troubled by the *factory* Ducs now, let alone a hypothetical junior squad.

With Rossi gone from Ducati, I think Y/H aren't worried in the slightest.

And the more I think about it, the more this "junior team" on Factory hardware seems like a fiasco.

The major issue that Ducati seems to have is producing new/different hardware at anything beyond a glacial pace.

So doubling the production quantity necessary (to actually gain feedback from 4 riders instead of 2) appears to be compounding an already serious problem.  ???

they just literally lost Rossi because of this.  it has to change or they may as well stop right now.

I think Audi really might be able to help that out however... again, not as much during the first year but probably by the second.  With the backing of the factory and their production lines I could see updates coming faster and faster... and as evinced by that Audi/Ducati pikes peak commercial, Audi seems pretty bent on commercializing the race winning aspects of Ducati.  And Audi does have a pretty solid race background so they probably know how to fab up new parts pretty quickly.

I mean, if you think about it... until BMW steps into the MotoGP ring, Ducati should now have close to the same buying power as Honda since they are both backed by a large car company.  Not as tightly integrated, but it's still a huge step up from what they were.

2014 or 2015?

cal to the jv team?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120814e.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120814e.htm)

 :o

Both tech 3 boys going to Ducati? These guys are smoking some very wacky weed. Have they seen what that bike has done to the careers of some very good riders in the past years?

Audi will change everything...

right?   ;D

Don't care how many clauses you include in that contract. Audi are not miracle workers unless they are able to steal an M1 and clown it. Ducati might as well have been bought by a Chinese tech company.

They already have a clown bike. ;)

Maybe they're just being realistic and taking the cash.  Neither of them is getting a factory ride on a Yamaha or a Honda for at least two years and by then the next great Spanish hope or Italian hotshot will have come along, so they still won't get a factory ride. Dovi's factory ship has sailed and Cal's window is closing.  By going with Ducati, they at least get a shot at getting paid more like a contender even if they are not likely to actually get a bike on which to contend.  Also, there is always the outside chance that Ducati "figures it out" and produces a competitive bike. Sure, that's a bit of a long shot and they're not likely to contend on a factory Ducati, but they're certainly not going to contend on a satellite Yamaha or Honda.  The factory teams won't let that happen.  If Ducati somehow strikes gold and brings forward a winning bike, Dovi and Cal will reap the rewards.  If Yamaha or Honda make a break through and produce a dominant bike, some of that will trickle down to the satellite bikes, but they will still always have scraps. At least with Ducati they get to sit at the the big boy's table.

What I really don't understand....

Both of those guys were riding satellite bikes, spanking two former world champions on factory bikes.

And they're signing up to walk into those propellers.

I hope they're getting big sacks'O'cash.

Potomacduc nailed it.

On a Yamaha satellite ride they for sure won't win a championship due to politics, but will likely be in the top 5 every race.

On the factory Duc they probably won't win a championship, likely finishing in the 6-9 region. However, there is a chance they can win a championship if Ducati figures it out...and they're trying hard to do that.

As racers they don't see a real difference between 3rd and 6th place. What they want is to work for a team that is trying as hard as it can to get them a championship...something the satellite squads can't do.

also, cal for sure will not get a factory yamaha in the next 2 years.

he might get one at ducati in 1 year.

Yeah, I agree... I think for them a chance at the championship is better than a guaranteed 4-6th place.

Depending on how 2013/14 goes this will be looked back on either as the dumbest move ever or a really well played bet.

Just saw this:
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Andrea+Dovizioso+and+Ducati+together+beginning+in+2013 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Andrea+Dovizioso+and+Ducati+together+beginning+in+2013)

Dovizioso officaly to Ducati 2013

Poor Dovi.

I hope it works out for him in the long run.

It is a factory ride after all, and I'm sure he's gambling on Ducati fixing the bike.

The next rule changes coming down the pike will do a lot to level the playing field, and hopefully Audi will remove Corse's head from it's ass.

Yeah I just read it too.
Guess he was looking for a paycheck and not a win

he's for sure not getting on a factory yamaha or honda in the next 2 years, so...  worth the gamble maybe.

Thats what I'm thinking is his thought process and I'm sure Cal is thinking the same when it comes to getting onto the JV squad.

Tech 3 = 100% chance to be 3-6th place
Ducati = cross your fingers and a small chance that you might be able to podium and win... while getting a bigger paycheck.

It actually makes sense if you're willing to give up the chance of placing 3rd all the time... betting that you can make it to first.

Nope. He's looking for the chance to win. Nothing but a factory ride provides that.

Even if it's no chance in the next year.

plus, he gets to ride the same bike at least 2 years in a row.  and he must assume/have been told that ducati are really serious about changes now that they've screwed up the dream scenario.

Wasn't that Rossi and JB's complaint?

 [cheeky]

And rain, pray for rain.

[laugh]

Bit of a coup for Ducati, getting the #4 guy in the standings (Alien-in-Waiting?)


Also....Burgess... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101889 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101889)

And some Audi stuff.....http://blog.caranddriver.com/wolfgang-durheimer-interview-the-future-of-bentley-and-bugatti/ (http://blog.caranddriver.com/wolfgang-durheimer-interview-the-future-of-bentley-and-bugatti/)

And wine is thicker than water, too....http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101888 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101888)

http://www.motomatters.com/interview/2012/08/23/lin_jarvis_on_rossi_s_return_what_it_mea.html (http://www.motomatters.com/interview/2012/08/23/lin_jarvis_on_rossi_s_return_what_it_mea.html)

Jarvis's lips were moving a lot.  [roll]

Sounded like..." we were gonna offer him a contract until Rossi said he wanted to come back, so we gave him the boot instead".  :-\

that seems very clear.  a week before ben made the announcement he and yamaha were both making very positive sounding statements about 2013.

Life mostly IS a game of musical chairs....

gm2 just texted me with this:

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-spies-to-gresini-in-silly-season-shocker/P1 (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-spies-to-gresini-in-silly-season-shocker/P1)

The announcers on the Eurosport feed were hinting that Fausto and Honda were on the outs and that Gresini will be a CRT Aprilia team with LCR getting the second Honda.

Be careful Ben.

I read that.

The intimation was that HRC was pissed that Fausto wanted an ART bike in the same garage as the Honda.

I'm suggesting there will be no Gresini Honda in 2013.

Wanna bet? [evil]

Same deal as always...$25, or more if you wish, to the AFF.  ;D

nah, i'd say it can go either way... ben won't go unless gresini is guaranteed a good bike and the presence of ben might even help fausto secure one from hrc...

at this point, i'm not sure if i'd rather see ben stick around motogp or go back to worldsbk.

all the "proper" factory gp rides are tied up for two years, so... i dunno.

I agree...he won't 'stay' unless the deal is right.

To go to the other end...

does Ben have a WSBK ride with BMW or not?

Lots of wavering going on if you ask me.

Did BMW make promises to Ben and Haslam?

What's the deal? :P

"have" is a really funny word... there's obviously no ink on any paper.... i believe the article above charges that ride has now been promised to leon.

you'd think that somebody in the worldsbk paddock would be able to come up w/ a ride for ben without all the jackin' around given the way he decimated the field in his first/championship year.

Maybe the Flamini's like more even competition...

inspired by headlight decals. [thumbsup]

I would almost take the spies to gresini *if* fausto can secure the Honda. Although Alvaro is the kind of guy that he loves representing his team...so is Ben. Hungry and charismatic.

i think that's the only scenario he would possibly agree to

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120827a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120827a.htm)

Today's Ben Spies rumour: Ducati junior team, really...

all the satellite RCs to Lucio, eh?  maybe fausto really did piss off HRC but good.

I wonder if he's willing to take the "only factory bikes win" bet... that seems to be what everyone looks at the JV team as.  Because he's locked out for at least 2 years at this point and I havent heard anything about him and BMW at this point for a while.  And I'm iffy if Duc would push for him that hard as they already have a american rider though I would say that Ben prob has a better following than Nicky at this point.

Do you think HRC would spring for a full factory setup for Ben if he went to a satellite team?

that's what they did this year, bautista's bike.  one would have to assume that's what ben would be looking for as well.

ducati thing is odd but, yeah, it's naturally got to be a matter of factory-but-not-yamaha.  options are limited.  and there's a lot of upside potential for anyone on a duc next year, if someone can get some sort of better result on it.  cuz ducati is the only place with a factory seat open in 2014 (unless suzuki comes back).
 

Bautista has a full factory bike?  I didnt know that, does Bradl have one too?  Because, while I like Bautista... his standings right now are looking a bit meh if he's not on a satellite spec bike.

From what I understand neither Bautista nor Bradl are on factory spec.

If HRC moves the second satellite to LCR, then that naggin question about Fausto looking for an Italian to sell chips for San Carlo is void. LCR would have their pick from some pretty talented guys that are not willing to kill their careers on a Duc.

what makes you say this about the Gresini?  it may not be now, but it was supposed to be in the beginning of the year.

I believe I heard that from the EuroSport announcerrs (I think that's the feed that MotoGP.com uses). They mentioned that the biggest difference between the satellite Hondas (both Gresini and LRC) was the electronics. Leads me to believe that the "lower spec" is due to the electronic limitation.

Assuming Ben wants back on a factory MotoGP squad, the only factory seat available for 2014 is Nicky's.  If Ben is on a satellite Duc in 2013, he can figure out if the bike has any hope and whether he wants anything to do with Ducati GP.   If he decides the bike can be competitive, he makes a play for the open "American slot" on the factory squad.  If he decides the bike is rubbish and not getting better anytime soon, he can shuffle off to WSBK.  There are going to be several good seats open in WSBK in 2014. Riding a BMW WSBK in 2013 won't tell him anything about whether he wants to ride a Duc in 2014 or not and that BMW seat or one just as good (maybe Checa's at Ducati or Biaggi's at Aprilia, they're getting old) is likely to be available in 2014.

Ben can always take Josh Hayes's ride after he retires and work his way back up the ladder - but leave mom home this time, please

'Stoner's crew heading back to Italy?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120831f.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120831f.htm)

Honda wants to keep them to make the transition easier for Marquez?
I thought Marquez was married to his Monlau team, that's why it would have been troublesome for him to go to a Satellite Team.

WTF?

Knowledge transfer to Marquez' crew and you still want to keep some continuity. Also, some of those guys going back to the competition might be an issue.

Elbowz and Crazy Joe on the Duc JV Team:

 http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Sep/120906a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Sep/120906a.htm)

YMMV

Man, I just don't get it. 

 [thumbsup]

Except I would hate to see Ben on the career killer for too long if they don't solve all the issues.

I like it...

It's well known that the Duc is a dog, so I doubt it will kill any more careers, if it has at all.

Iannone is a great rider and a real personality...kind of like Simoncelli. He deserves a ride, and will be good for the show.

I hope Ben got a two year deal so he can stay in the gp paddock, if he wants to. If the Duc doesn't pan out he would still have a chance at Suzuki if they re-enter in 2015.

It would be nice to know who'll be running this 'jv' squad.

Rather have seen him on the BMW in SBK.

+1


+1

been there, done that.  how many other rookies won?

no doubt the duc has been/is currently a mess.  but there's nowhere to go but up.  and Ducaudi have a white hot burning need to fix shit.  they just lost valentino fer chrissake!

we already know ben can be fast on just about anything.  they had to have double-dog sworn that the jv team gets factory machinery AND someone is going to listen to them.

so.. why the hell not.

I liked the BMW WSBK, then BMW MotoGP plan.

It could work if Ducati fixes things...IF

Guessing once you leave Motogp, there is no coming back. Sounds like he wants to hang around for another few years and can always go back to WSBK.

I am more stoked about Crazy Joe on the Duc than I am Ben. I wish Ben had gone to a satellite Honda team instead. But oh well...


LET'S GO CRAZY JOE!!!!  [popcorn]

Why not Ben?

+1 to that  [popcorn]

Hasn't the boy been spit off enough THIS season for you? YOU'RE A MONSTER!! ALL YOU WANNA DO IS SEE HIM CRASH TRYING TO WIN!  [laugh] [popcorn]

I don't think Ben is "aggressive" enough to ride the handful that is the Duc. Not to say he is a weenie or anything but he has been riding bikes that just work his entire career and now he is going to something that is one half train wreck, one half physics experiment gone wrong, one half engineering oops and one third this math equation.

did you happen to read any interviews from the guys riding the worldsuperbike yamaha the year after ben left?

Crazy Joe is going to be good for Motogp.    [thumbsup]

like cal, in particular.

or see what he did on haga's completely unchanged, haga-settings R1 the day after the 2008 season ended in portimao?  or follow the ohshittrythis development of the 2009 R1?  how did sykes do that year?  just worked.  come on now.

short memories.  :)
 

Well, I sure didn't see that coming:

http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2012/09/iannone-faster-than-rossi-on-ducati/ (http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2012/09/iannone-faster-than-rossi-on-ducati/)

Doesn't surprise me a bit.

I'm pretty sure Rossi has thrown in the towel.

He's not going to risk injury to go fast on the Duc

Stoner> [laugh]

Crazy Joe is going to be good for Ducati.     [thumbsup]

What's so funny?  ;D

Is there an echo in here? :P

Iannone got that nickname for a reason. Screw frontend feel. Win it or bean it!! Plus he needed to impress the brass. Rossi threw in the towel about half way through last year.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/09/09/wsbk_news_chaz_davies_signs_with_bmw_for.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/09/09/wsbk_news_chaz_davies_signs_with_bmw_for.html)

Chaz on the BMW WSBK factory team next year.  [thumbsup]

derby, but in the right place so it's ok  ;)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Sep/120912d.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Sep/120912d.htm)

Stoked to see crazy joe and spies on this team!

More confirmation that Ben is out of the frying pan, into the fire  [evil]
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/183878/1/ben_spies_iannone_secure_2013_motogp_seats.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/183878/1/ben_spies_iannone_secure_2013_motogp_seats.html)

"The two riders, who have a direct link with the company, will be supplied with official equipment."

on the Ducati payroll and they get factory bikes.  JV squad comes to life.  at least we know they won't be out there on GP0.2's

Now if they can make some progress in development....

Proper funding............ check
Talent........................... check
Progress with bike setup....................................  where did everyone go?




Did I mention how excited I am to have Crazy Joe riding in motogp?

Yup.  But Ben will crash or find some reason why he's running in back, and Iaonne's tires will go off at the end of the race.  Truth be told, my biggest concern is that I'm going to have to learn to spell Iannone. 

I'm more excited to see Iannone in MotoGP than anything else next season. Maniac Joe, pick up where Super Sic left off!

Keep your logic I'm with Lindz on this one.

I like Iannone the best of the lead guys in Moto2, but I will hold off comparing him to Sic. You can tell they had a similar win it or bean it attitude, but Sic was maturing very quickly.

Ducati definitely knows their 2 mayor markets.

Spell check Carlos. [laugh] [laugh] But I do agree about Iannone and yes, he's no Sic... at least not yet. [thumbsup] [Dolph]

FLAME ME if you feel the need to for this comment...but I kinda see Marquez as more of a Sic kind of rider than Crazy Joe...

[must hold tongue]^^^^^

do you mean marquez is more wild, more on the ragged edge than iannone?

yes and more likely to make that dangerous push into or past someone in a less sportsmanlike manner like what Sic did on more than 1 occasion....

He can't be as bad as Kenan Sofuoglu

we're watching different races i guess.


we've all seen marquez move in front on a front straight at the last minute, making a dive-under move impossible for others.  but he was (barely) past whoever it was.

iannone on the other hand.. c'mon man, he has that nickname for a reason.  maybe bc he's not always up front you're not seeing it, but he makes marco look like dovi.  the rest of the grid expects him to torpedo them.
 
i'm not gonna flame ya, but i do think you're wrong.  ;)
 

+11ty billion

It was his birthday...

senility is setting in. ;D

hahahahahahahaa...nice one...

and yeah, maybe there is stuff going on with Crazy Joe in the back of the pack I just haven't seen...

Oh great - TWO riders with a proclivity for taking out others at a moment's notice... [roll]

Uh...Iannone has really changed things up this year. He has had his moments this year but not like his past.
And one does not put one's self into 4th place in points only 16 points back on 2nd by being a complete kamikaze pilot.

Does he make some aggressive passes? Of course he does but Marqueef has been far and away the bigger douchebag in Moto2 this season.

All the musical chair spots have been filled now barring gresini right?

They have a few names mentioned during FP1 in Misano for Gresini. Obviously Bautista is still on the list, but I heard Redding, Rea and even RdP.

I think Rae's performance this weekend will determine if he stays 'on the list'.

Preziosi on 2013...

http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/09/18/filippo_preziosi_interview_on_ducati_s_f.html (http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/09/18/filippo_preziosi_interview_on_ducati_s_f.html)

No matter what, I still think Preziosi should go.

+1

Maybe what Ducati needs is an invasion of German engineers to handle the chassis and engine aspects. Ducati Corse seems to have a solid grasp of the ECU.

Sure why not... [roll]

I mean it only took BMW 3 years to get it right in SBK and they're walking away after this season, and Suter/BMW in GP doesn't even have a remote clue.

I don't think nationality has much to do with it.

I do think Preziosi's ego got in the way. I also think that might be shattered right about now after his inaction drove Rossi out.

Remember as well that with Ducati wanting to keep Rossi happy, we've really only been hearing the Rossi/Burgess side of the story in the media (and lately, most of the vitriol is coming from Burgess more than Rossi). That's starting to change just a bit, with stories like this: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Sep/120915c.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Sep/120915c.htm)

With Stoner, Melandri & others, Ducati Corse did stonewall, told them repeatedly that the bike was fine and they just had to ride it. But while changes over two years didn't come fast enough for anyone's taste, it's just as inaccurate to say "Nothing Changed" the way Burgess is, as it is to say the bike is fine.

Speaking of changes, wasn't there supposed to be a dramatic revision to the motor layout that would debut at Laguna Seca? There was hype on it all the way up to a week or two before Monterey, then nothing, at least not that I caught.

It's always a two story house.

Sure Ducati made changes, but they obviously didn't either do enough, or what they did was unsuccessful. Two swingarms  isn't a lot.

My point is I don't think Preziosi should necessarily go. It would be non productive IMO.

If you listen to Burgess...it simply didn't happen.

It took BMW 3 years to get the electronics working, not necessarily the rest of the package.

As the person responsible for getting wins every week, I can see why Burgess would say that nothing changed. From the outside looking in, we do see that Ducati has completely changed the bike, except maybe for the motor even though they did changed the position. The buck stops at Preziosi for good or bad. In this case it has been mostly bad for a long time.

far too long of a time IMHO...

BMW has been making motorcycles for nearly 90 years.
Yearly revenue ~1B Euro.
BMW cars yearly revenue ~60B Euro.

Ducati is ~500M Euro.

Comparison of the two at ability to roll out new hardware is not very convincing just due to that.

Ducati's major problem has been the ability to generate new parts at a reasonable rate.
Laying all the blame for that at Preziosi's feet isn't very realistic.
If someone supplies you with $5 to get a week's groceries for a family of 4, you'll come up short.

And furthermore, replace Preziosi with whom?
The world-dominating MotoGP engineering department of Audi?  [roll]

I hear Davide Tardozzi is currently available....

He's a team manager...

not a development engineer.

I have to agree with Nick...

How about raiding BMW's team both of Manager and designers  [evil]

How long has BMW been building superbikes? How long has Ducati? I think that from day 1 of building a superbike with no prior experience to leading a championship in 5 years in mighty impressive.

I'm not saying that Audi is going to send their car engineers to simply redesign a bike. That would be idiotic. What you do is steal the guys that obviously have the s1000rr working in SBK. You already tried to bring in one of Japan's top bike engineers, how'd that work out for you?

Gee...

maybe they build a Ducati I4. [puke]

reg pridmore won the ama superbike championship on a bmw r90s in 1976. do we need to go further back than that?  ;D

Or a Ducati V4, oh wait...

well i would say development focus would be on chassis and motor/chassis interaction.
the motor is still the most powerful, but expect that to change with the new ecu/rev limit

the more i think about GP the more I hate Dorna.

fricking let a company design a true prototype.
the 81mm bore limit/ecu/rev limit/tires

anyway... off topic...

Preziosi said a while ago he would have prefered a 2 cyl. that says he's already out of his element.
add this new move to the perimeter frame, the previous carbon 'frameless' etc etc.

like i said before Preziosi was a genius taking other designer's/engineer's bikes and taking them to another level.
so maybe it takes another lead designer AND another team manager come in, build a genius bike and IF Preziosi lets his pride move aside, he can assist in the development.

You just had to come in here and ruin my perfectly good argument with your "facts".

what the hell is your last name? Google?

One of my favorite stories was Pridmore talking about that bike later, noting that they kept telling the folks back in Germany that there were issues, most notably with the brakes.

The consistent response: The brakes are fine. We designed them, so they cannot be otherwise.

I don't thing Pridmore was being (too) cocky when he said that championship was about the rider, not so much the bike.

A friend of mine who's the lead BMW mechanic at one of the largest dealerships in SoCal confirms that the attitude of the home office hasn't changed much in the intervening decades, at least when it comes to engineering questions.

Well, I guess they realized how bad it was eventually or they redesigned them to actually work and said "I told you so".

Actually, they just got used to not having much in the way of brakes from about the halfway point in the race onward. Pridmore was on a Kawi the following year. He won the championship on that, too.

(sorry for the digression into Silly Season '76. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Silly.)

That team was run by the importers of the day... Butler and Smith. Good times back then! [thumbsup] The AMA SBK paddock was the center of the universe when it came to "bending" the rules and putting your own spin on the rulebook. Made NASCAR look like Mother Teresa. [laugh]

If they had done something more original, rather than basically copying the other I4 superbikes, I might see a glimmer of hope in that.

But they didn't.

okay...how about Aprilia then...since they have experience with V4's and are hedging on the verge of GP with that RSV/ART bike anyway...LOL

I don't think they'll let Max back in.  :P

They might let him be The Turd's umbrella "girl".

Anyway, like Raux mentioned, Preziosi is not the answer. Ducati is the only factory that had to request a third party to build them a frame. Al the other manufacturers have build the engine and frame in conjunction. At this point you either go back to the frameless and wallow with the back markers for a few years until you get it right, go back to the trellis until you figure out something else, or simply bring in a guy that can redesign a whole bike from top to bottom.

Of course you can avoid this by making your own twin-spar frame around a decent engine.

Make up my mind...will ya? :-*

Preziosi can't make a twin spar. The frameless is not the answer if you're looking to be competitive in the near future and you can't go back to trellis. So why keep Preziosi around?

Preziosi can't/shouldn't make anything.

He's an engineer.

Until you come up with a viable replacement it makes no sense to clean house.

Ducati has 0 experience with twin spar aluminum frames. It's unrealistic to expect them to be able to do it at this point.

Since everyone admits that Preziosi is a master at improving other people's work give him some time. The recent tests show some improvement.

They need a Taglioni, Tamburini or Terblanche. They need a visionary. Preziosi is not a visionary, at least not a great one.

Hell his name doesn't even start with the right letter.

They need a shake up and even he was willing to step down to make it happen.

It might be as simple as he only knows engines, not frames...which he says was the focus of his conversations with Furusawa.

This latest iteration of the 'highly' adjustable frame and Rossi's 2nd place (and consistent lap times) at Misano suggests Ducati's main goal is to get as much test-pilot service out of Rossi as they can before he's gone.

Because they have so much experience designing winning MotoGP bikes?

I think Preziosi is fine. The frameless concept was visionary, even if it didn't pan out. Not everything new works like it was planned, and the Bridgestones were a major curveball. Rossi's recent 2nd place gives hope, and it seems his struggles have at least demonstrated to Ducati that the bike is the problem, not the rider. That ego check may have been all that was needed.

Well said, and a +1


mitt

Jonathan Rae confirmed with Ten Kate/Pata Honda for next year in SBK according to Eurosport announcers

Another year of vintage bike racing for Rea. :P

I like Rea. I don't care what class he races in. He's not an alien in any class (not yet...) but he's a damn good rider and seems like a good guy with no shitty attitude. He'll hopefully make it to the big boy class full time someday. Regardless, I still think he's got a great future. [thumbsup]

We will still see Barbera on the MotoGP grid, but on a CRT bike. He got picked up by Avintia.

guess that door is closed and up in smoke...

http://www.motomatters.com/press_release/2012/09/26/wsbk_news_baz_confirmed_alongside_sykes_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/press_release/2012/09/26/wsbk_news_baz_confirmed_alongside_sykes_.html)

Good for Baz!! Nothing like new, talented young blood to spark up the grid next year. And as much as I like Ducs I am groovin' on the success that Sykes is having with the Kwaker. [thumbsup] Makes me proud to be the owner of an original KZ1000R Lawson Replica and a modern water pumper ZRX1000R... all in Kawi green of course, the fastest color! ;D

 [puke]

Come on, be nice. ;D

some interesting insight here about BMW and Melandri and Haslam from Corser...

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/466/14489/Motorcycle-Article/Troy-Corser-BMW-World-Superbike-Interview.aspx?WT.i_e_dcsvid=1034576281 (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/466/14489/Motorcycle-Article/Troy-Corser-BMW-World-Superbike-Interview.aspx?WT.i_e_dcsvid=1034576281)

Good stuff.   [thumbsup]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Oct/121017nak.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Oct/121017nak.htm)  (this is also linked in the HRC/ecu thread)

last line: Nakamoto expects Marquez to be on the podium in Qatar.

Interesting:

Dorna must discuss about technical rules with MSMA before a decision is made. We have a five year contract with Dorna(2012-2016) and it has detailed clauses. With this contract, Dorna cannot do anything unless we agree.

Rossi's crew coming back to Yamaha with him:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/October/oct1812-rossi-crew-return/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/October/oct1812-rossi-crew-return/)

pt2

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/466/14636/Motorcycle-Article/Troy-Corser-BMW-World-Superbike-Interview-2.aspx?WT.i_e_dcsvid=1034576281 (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/466/14636/Motorcycle-Article/Troy-Corser-BMW-World-Superbike-Interview-2.aspx?WT.i_e_dcsvid=1034576281)

though IMHO, not as good as pt1...his take on what GP and SBK has as far as a future...well...

WTF? More than killing prototype racing, they would be butchering WSBK. I have no answers for trying to keep the costs down in GP, but saying that no innovations trickle down from GP to production is simply incorrect. 

Butchering SBK might be on the cards. Saw an article in Ozmcn (quoting Carmello E) that indicates there may be a move to push SBK back down toward Superstock specs. Again for cost reasons and to get SBK back to its production roots. He seemed to be saying that there could be an emphasis on factory supported private teams like Ten Kate in SBK and prototype full factory teams in Moto GP. With SBK breathing down the neck of Moto GP in so many ways its probably designed to take the pressure off Moto GP. Nakamoto liked the idea.

 [thumbsdown]

It seemed to be a plan to free up resources from SBK to get the factories back into Moto GP with the possibility of luring BMW and Aprilia into Moto GP. We can only hope this makes the CRTs disappear.

I don't see Aprilia moving to full blown MotoGP. I think they're happy with their performance in WSBK and leading the CRT parade. I think they're even happier that they can consistently beat the satellite Ducs.

i don't really want to see WSBK dumbed down any... however i also have long not understood how the rules there were so liberal.  it's basically just production cases and chassis, that's it.

agreed.  however using 39 wsbk engines in a season is retarded.  and a problem.
 

More reasons for them not to want to go to MotoGP.

max retires, probably: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/1211054x.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/1211054x.htm)

Interesting situation.  Surprised that a reigning world champion would be left out in the cold without a ride (so far).  Also, really not looking forward to what Dorna might do to WSBK. 

 [laugh] [laugh]

Email messages to Biaggi requesting comment were ignored, and we would not have it any other way.

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/185858/1/max_biaggi_announces_retirement.html (http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news/185858/1/max_biaggi_announces_retirement.html)

confirmed... so long, max.

going out on a high note while still healthy.  [thumbsup]

Another fast douchebag retiring. He will be missed.

now will come the announcement of whom will ride alongside Laverty...most likely Guinters....

So long Vale's be-otch.

(A smooth and fast be-otch for sure tho')

yes.  nice!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121128ll.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Nov/121128ll.htm)