Ducati Monster Forum

How are those new gen monsters? How smooth are they? Handling wise compared to the old monsters?

Once i fix my monster, i was thinking of giving it an update, new suspension, new paint on frame and wheels and all that fun stuff. My all in cost is about $3500 for the update and I've seen some newer ducs for $7500-8000, so naturally, if i can sell my bike for 4k then i can double up and pick up a newer bike. Ive only ever ridden the 696 when it first came out and was not impressed at all in any department.

If i sell my duc, i would be looking at the M1100 EVO, Hypermotard 1100S or the hyperstrada, if the M1100EVO motor wasnt so addicting, i would consider an older 1100S Multi too.

Thoughts?

I've only ridden an M821 recently, and the RBW was so obnoxious I had a hard time concentrating on the bike.
Same with a 821 Hyper.
Oddly, the 899 Pani RBW was good.

But I did notice that the double layer exhaust heat shield on the M821 was very noticeable pushing on my right boot.

Quite a while ago, rode an M696, but remember little else other than my nuts being squashed against the tank.

This. My nuts being squashed was ultimately why i didnt like it at all.

i didnt even know the new ducs had RBW. I would think the bike would be butter smooth and the throttle would be super easy to manipulate with that kind of setup.

Serious question, I am not being inflammatory as I have never been on an 821.....

Define "obnoxious", I don't understand. Was it not smooth? I would think that it would either work, or not. If not, you don't go anywhere.

Mark

I rode the Hyperstrada a couple of weeks ago. I thought everything about it was pretty smooth. I wasn't able to ring its neck out to see what it's really capable of, but I liked it. The TC was in street mode since it was wet out and it was a group demo ride so grain of salt yada yada yada. It also squished my man bits into the tank, the seat kept sliding me forward. If i were in the market, i would get the Hyper SP and find a better seat for it.

Like many I too found the M696/796/1100 nut crush to be rather nasty.  I hated mine.

Until I bought a DP Touring/Comfort seat  [thumbsup]

Real issue, easy fix.

But when you say "new" Monster.... maybe you mean the newer ones...... 

I like mine (M1100s), but I haven't had that many other bikes to compare it with. The Street Triple was much smoother, but lacked any soul. The seat is not an issue for me.

M821 rider here...

I can truly say that this bike is a ton of fun. Riding around the city, out on the highway, or even tackling the twisty back roads, this bike really delivers. Touring mode for me seems to be the sweet spot. You get the full 112 HP with a smooth throttle response. For me, the "obnoxious" throttle response in RBW is only felt in Sport mode when you're in the lower half of the power band and doing something, like trying to maintain a specific speed. You will get used to it. Until then, it can be jerky, but when you get on it... wow, it GOES! FWIW I test ridden a M1100Evo also and it's not exactly smooth either with the abrupt throttle roll on and clutch engagement. After a few stop and go's I was getting used to it though. I was so close to buying one.

Also, check the ergonomics. I'm 6' with a 33" inseam and a size 11 boot. The aforementioned post about the right foot hitting the exhaust shroud was/is annoying. I upgraded to a Termi slip on and it somewhat resolved that issue. The real issue is rear sets. They stick out way too far, conflicting with your heels. After 2000 miles, I'm pretty used to it and just have my feet out wider on the pegs. Check out www.cycle-ergo.com (http://www.cycle-ergo.com)


All-in-all, I think the new Monsters are great, with my experience test riding the M796, M1100Evo and M821. I went for the M821 because of it's motor and ride modes. The bike truly has 3 personalities, one of which you'll be happy with. My only gripe is ergos/geometry from the saddle down. I'm too cramped and am now looking (just looking) at the Hypermotard since the ergos are more relaxed and I get to keep the same 821 engine.

Best of luck with your decision.

He-man - I rode the new Monster 821 for about 10 days while my S4R was in the shop. The engine is seriously butter smooth, so smooth you forget that you're riding a Monster. The RBW is a nice touch given my Monster lacks all those new fandangled technology. The riding modes make it easy for a new rider to manage power delivery. When you twist the throttle the bike will go, the more you twist it the more it will go. I had the Ohlins front and back and that was a nice touch as well to manage DC and VA rodes and through the twisty's canyons, it was pretty awesome.

The butter smoothness is my only gripe. When you get on it the bike will go but you dont get the feedback you get with the older Monsters. The throttle response is there but I have no sense of speed when i twist the throttle like my older Monster. The motor doesnt have a grumble to it, like it's alive it has more of a hum...Balls didnt get squashed either.

Net net, the older Monsters have a character/soul to them that I can connect with and love. It feels like a Monster. The 821 I rode was nice but every time I finished a ride, I got off thinking that was nice rather than holy make the beast with two backs I love this bike, exhausting as my S4R is, I love every minute of riding it.

Thanks for all the replies, how many of you guys have an older ST framed monster to compare to?

I've got an M1100EVO motor in my S2R1000 and its been tuned. VERY smooth motor with very little hiccup. So it is possible to have a great engine.

Although i will admit, these bikes are fatiguing to ride for some reason. I have't figured it out yet, but i could ride my DR in easy single track and not be anywhere as tired as riding my ducati 4 hours commuting/highway.

I have an ST4s and a 97 M900 (with flatsides, dynacoils, light flywheel and clutch).
Rode a 1200 monster and the new hyper a few weeks back.  Test rode a few 1100 monsters a few years back.

I find the ST to be slimmer between the legs and better balanced compared to the bikes I tested.

The newer bikes are smoother.  But I thought the throttle was not as responsive or as linear compared to my old monster.  Assuming its the mods on the M900.  Would be interesting comparing a completely stock old monster to a new one. 

I really want to love the new monster, but the ergos arent there. The 696 was fixed with the d9 seat, maybe the new monster would be fixed with rearsets, but a way more expensive fix than a seat. I also like the cable throttle for things like quick throttle cam, slack adjustment and slow throttle changes to better make the bike fit you instead of you adjusting to the bike. Just seems the newer bikes are getting further and further away from being modifiable to being DP part sellers

For the record i would love an 1100s, dry clutch, ohlins, dp seat,

isnt the 1100 the same as a 696 minus the motor and swingarm (alright lets not get too technical here). its the same frame and ergos otherwise isnt it?

Ultimately, do you guys think its worth buying a new monster? or should i just keep my old one and mod the snot out of it? The end result is roughly the same cost. BTW, ive owned my monster since 2007 ( its an 06 S2R)

Unless I had the chance to buy a 2009 M1100 witht he dry clutch and ohlins bits, I would just keep your 06 and mod the snot out of it. The nostalgia of the older Monsters is what does it for me. The engine, the ergos, the ability to customize, the less intrusive technology. Just think there's something about them.....

My Monster is not that old but I test rode the 796 and 821 back to back and liked the character of the 796 better.

Close, same frame, different handlebar rise and foot pegs, taller seat height.

The response of the RBW throttle was very non-linear.
A pretty big zone of 'nearly dead' from closed throttle, then it ramped up quickly.
Seemed even worse in the 'urban' mode.

The 899 Pani I rode on the same test-ride loop was way better.

My GF's BMW cage has the same sort of non-linearity.
Drives me bananas.

I've ridden and driven motor vehicles for ~40 years with a cable or linkage directly connecting the throttle grip or pedal to the butterfly or slide.

We have a 2014 Durango that does the same thing. Always feels like I'm gunning it off the line.

Interesting, I would have ASSUMED that with the RBW system that would have easily been sorted out.

Personally I like cables.

Mark

If my entire stable of bikes and motos were RBW, I expect I'd reprogram my throttle demands.
But the chance of that happening is vanishingly remote.

I did notice how I'd unconsciously compensated for the lag of the CV's on my M750 after I fitted the FCR's.

Sounds like bad mapping or RBW programming. My RSV4 is RBW, and my 2 street bikes are cables. I can't tell the difference. The RSV4 feels like cables.

G'day K.
Not sure you would like the complexity of the water cooled 4 valvers.  They have a heavier, cruiser look imo.
A Wasp/CD/Beast R kit and PCV on an M1100 Evo would give you 100hp, ABS and TCS. I think you would like the handling from what members say with a more planted front tyre compared to the older Monsters.
Or you could just do the 100hp intake mods to your current bike, revalve/spring the front and put an Ohlins out back. Your bike is unique and what alot of people say Ducati should have made.

RBW in Sport mode is just way too demanding, you must concentrate too much on how you open the throttle . . . In Touring mode is easier to ride but the position of the TURKEY wings is just a bad choice . . . you can't ride ball of the foot cause your heel will always be on the passenger's pegs or just above the exhaust  . . . apart from that, it handles quite well in general . . .considering I consider myself a 5 out of 10 rider . . .

Are the CA bikes still EPA leaner than the other states, or are all US bikes CA level lean nowdays?  Almost sounds surgy on top of any RBW mapping issues. Just a thought.

koko, all USA bikes are CA spec . . . Canada has CAN spec . . diferent . . . as Australia has AUS .. we get EUR spec, and still, suddenly no power and 1mm later all the power . . .

Thanks C. Sorry to hear that guys. ;D
I guess RBW set up from the factory could vary and is another tunable item for correct performance just like the as delivered EFI tuning?

there have been a few updates from factory for MY15 M821 . . . since I can't ride I can't report . . .   :-\

They want us to think we're riding 2-strokes!

JM

didn't think of it this way . .  uhm m mmmm

haah a 600cc 2 stroke....  [drool]

Yep.

More and more all the time I wish I had kept my '94, which I foolishly sold once the nickel and diming of an old bike began to take hold. I should have just blown it completely apart, done some mild custom work here and there, and punched it to 944 and slapped on some flat-slides. It would look mighty fine sitting in the stable these days.

Sigh.

I've ridden the 821 and really didn't care for it at all.  I felt way too cramped on it and it just felt like you have to really wring the crap out of it to get it to go.

It handled fine but on the freeway it feels like you're going 90 when you're only going 60 and nothing about this bike is comfortable.

I'll admit that the cramped thing might have something to do with me spending the last 9 months and 4,000+ miles riding a Multistrada though.

Any reason you're limiting options to ducs, be it keeping your S2R or buying a new (or new-ish) Monster?  I don't want to be accused of perfidy, but there are lot of other bikes out there.  Or so i hear.  Some of are even fun.

He has an S2R with 1100Evo motor in it. Pretty cool.

Thanks---corrected it in my post.  Question still stands, though.

I saw K has advertised his front end, so it looks like he's keeping it and giving it a freshen up. Good man [beer].

Sshh you! ;D

I dont really like any other bike out there. thats in this class atleast. I ride a ton of dirtbikes now and i want something thats fun  and fast and not too big of a bike, monster just seems to fill that role of something i wouldn't mind having...unless it was a DR650. but if i buy that bike, id probably bring it on dirt/camping trips and then realize i would rather be riding an ACTUAL dirt bike...unless were talking about some TAT business here...

Kopf and Monsterlover seem to like their KTM SMs a lot.  But I'm not trying to convince you to jump ship, just living vicariously through your situation (i.e. imagining all the bikes I want to add to my collection.)




And why aren't we talking TAT business?  Ride along.  Leaving next July.  Just got my saddlebags and rear rack and am installing this weekend.  Purty:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0396/9401/products/BC_Pannier_35L_R_beauty_for_site_deca910a-415f-456a-899d-0d13c637b5b3_1024x1024.jpg?v=1429055099)

I'm short. For a comuter street bike that kinda height begins to hurt ur knees from being locked out. Between jiujitsu and dirt bikes, my knees take more than enough punishment.  Plus I already have a ktm. :)

I dont have a bike anymore, that's tat ready at least. What pace were u planning on? I've got the vacation days. So my plan was always going to be max 4 weeks. I'd realistically try to shoot for 3 weeks.

He man have you ridden a Scrambler?

i have not. I have sat on it at the show and theres a guy who rides by my office everydya with one. It looks cool, but not really my style.

So did you end up with the Enduro 690 you were after?


I was thinking 1 month, but I can be flexible since I'll likely have no job to return to.

Treachery.

I propose you be taken henceforth from this place and be smote around the cranium with wet Haddock, at dawn for a fortnight!!

 [laugh]

Traitor!!!!!! off with your head!



i never got the 690. I oogled it for a month and went to a few dealers, but ultimately, that close ratio gearbox kinda sucks for your everyday ride. In the woods, youd be begging to have a real dirt bike, and then when you take it in the tough stuff, youll cry when you drop it.

All in all, i am looking to get another DR650. If i get one next year, i think i would be down to do the TAT with you, i originally pieced it at 27 days. My idea was to blast through the east as fast as i can to get to Trinidad and then spend about 2 weeks going from Trinidad to San Diego (which is a snails pace, but i plan on doing lots of stopping and appreciating nature). leaving my bike at my friends place and have him sell it there or ship it back.

Theres really nothing to see when riding the eastern TAT from what i hear. Lots of straights and boring plains.

if anything, i could always meet you in colorado, i might cheat and haul the bike to colorado. :D

Ok.  I will continue to keep you in the loop.  I am okay with missing some of the east or meeting you halfway.




Sounds like somebody wants their free yellow duc for DIMBY privileges revoked.

Great advice  [thumbsup] [clap] [thumbsup]

Really, why limit your horizons when  - as 1.21GW so rightly points out - there's so much great variety out there  [thumbsup]

Smart bloke is our 1.21.  Very enlightened.  And generous.

 ;D

I would be limiting myself if I didnt already look at other bikes, so thats kind of an ass backwards comment dont you think? Besides, youre the one calling 1.21 out as a heritic!  [laugh]

All jokes aside though, nothing really fancys me, i am a converted dirt guy. The ONLY 2 bikes i would get at this point in my life is the DR650, and a WR450F, but im waiting for them to come out with the slant motor. Hell Id probably buy the 690 Enduro if i had the spare money and time...and space ( i already have 3 bikes).

And a 500EXC. And probably a 300XC (maybe an XCW). Next year, im for sure looking hard at the 2016 YZ250FX vs the KTM 300 XC, i miss 4 stroke dirt bikes.

See my problem? lol i dont care much for street bikes, more than i like dual sports and most dual sports suck as everyday bikes.

Eitherway, the decision was made, im keeping the S2R and updating it!

 [beer] [Dolph] [thumbsup]

You would have missed that evo motor dearly.

The low end grunt is simply intoxicating. Unless you're planning on going 140mph or need the electronic rider aids, the newer monsters are not really worth the coin

This the low end on this tuned EVO motor with the TPO BEAST-R kit, is a fire breathing dragon. Its CLEAN, CRISP and just WHOMP WHOMP. My dyno tune was with an open airbox, im going to get it retuned with the Beast-R next year.

im just struggling to find a radial fork setup from an S4Rs. I dont want the longer fork tubes from a SBK, and the new 1199 series bikes have MASSIVE fork diameters (due to the lack of frame, i think the fork stiffness has to increase so they went up in diameter, or they need it to accommodate a big ass piston in the damper system)

I am seriously turned on by MV Agustas bikes lately... All of them. Wonder is they ride as good as they look?

Several of the guys I ride with at the track have switched to Brutale's from various flavors of Duc.

My EVO has an MWR power up kit and probably isn't nearly as aggressive as yours but I share the feeling.

The corner speed thru mountain sweepers is absolutely ridiculous. It has no top end but coming out of corners, these pull harder than some 1000cc motors (for the first 3 seconds).

Are we talking about the same 821 Monster here?  Some of the comments certainly don't sound like they are being made about the same bike I've been riding for the past year.

RBW - For me it's a non-issue.  I've had several bikes with 'conventional' throttle control that weren't this smooth.

Sport mode - Mine never goes out of Sport mode.  Of course if you dump the clutch and hit WOT the front will point towards the moon but what do you expect?  It does like to rev.  Has a different personality above 7,000 rpm.

Ergos - I'm about 5'10'' with a 31 inch inseam.  I put the seat in the low position, added bar risers and a Rizoma bar for a more conventional riding position, and I may replace the seat at some point in time but the stock one is livable for a 300 mile day.  But I've done similar things to most other bikes I've intended to keep for an extended period of time.  I don't feel the 821 is any more cramped than the Kawasaki ZRX1200r I had for a decade.

Mileage - OMG! I don't know that you can ride the 821 hard enough on public roads to get less than 42 mpg.  I got 46 mpg on a 250 mile ride a couple of weeks ago, riding at a variety of speeds.

Handling - It is a Monster so that's a given.

Tires - The Rosso IIs are grippy but they're history for me.  I got a whopping 3,100 miles out of the back tire before the cords started showing.  Have an Angel GT on the back now.

Niggling points - The exhaust does throw off some heat.  Tolerable but noticeable.  Stock mirrors are useless.  I don't know who the rocket scientist was that dreamt up dual purposing the turn signal cancel button to do mode changes but that irritates the hell out of me.

Personally I think the new Monsters are some of the better looking water cooled naked bikes available.  The Aprilia Tuono is nice, and of course (IMHO) there's not a naked bike out there that is even in the same league as the Brutale when it comes to looks.

One thing I find entertaining about Ducati owners is they all have opinions and are not shy about sharing  [cheeky]

Have your oem forks sold yet? Maybe a cartridge kit rebuild? The oem brakes are good, but even better with radial master cylinders for better leverage and feel. You'd be stuck with axial calipers unless you got the lower conversion kit. The 65mm calipers work great anyway, even more so for a streetbike.

i have not. i havent been able to source a set of forks that are acceptable for my use. I really want to try and grab a set of S4Rs forks.

Everything else is too long for Handle bars. So if i dont find anything in the next 2-3 months, im going to scrap the fork swap and just keep waht i have (but still swap to radial masters).

I am 100% going to get a Penske double clicker rear. My biggest project to tackle will be how to install a motogadget M unit along side the injection system.


2nd biggest project is the paint. The frame needs to be stripped and prepped for paint, not sure what color yet (probably bronze color). And im still debating what color tank i want to go with.

Just go with fork lowers from S&P if your current forks work well.