I'm at a point where I am literally starting to hate our new dog.
I've had pets piss me off (shitting on the carpet etc etc), but I've never been to a point where I actually want a pet gone....really gone.
A few months ago, we (lm and myself) got a rescue wire haired fox terrier, and the dog is causing all kinds of drama and chaos in the house.
She (Annie the terrier), is a very energetic playfull dog, but the two other dogs want nothing to do with her. They wont play with her, and if lm or the boys are anywhere near the three dogs, the two will litterally attack her. The only time they are civil, is when I'm around.
Two of our three cats are old. Lilly (the oldest), continues to be tormented by Annie. Helen, another old kitty, will fight back, but see'n how Annie is bigger, and litterally will not stop her attack, no matter how bad the cat scratches her, and ends up losing. A few weeks ago, Annie ran Helen up a tree, and that ended badly (Helen fell, injured herself and bleed quite a bit) Bob (cat #3) will stand his ground and claw the shit out of Annie, until somebody pulls Annie away. Annies face has been covered in blood quite a few times. The dog knows no pain or fear. All attempts to train her...suck. The dog has no long term memory, so we all (pets and humans) tap dance around the dog.
The dog pees and shits everywhere in the house, even after having just gone outside. Turn your head...and she shits. All the outdoor praise training does nothing. Even if she spends the entire day outside.... she'll walk inside and piss.
She is a very loving dog, when it comes to humans, but the word "No!" means nothing to her. She jumps on the furniture whenever she wants, even after repeated "no!" tranings sessions. She climbs on the tables if you turn your back on her, and will only get down if you walk towards her....telling her to get down, gets you nowhere.
Neither lm or myself have ever had a dog/pet that was this difficult, and I'm at my end.
I know the dog is being what it is, but I just can't deal with her anymore. It's not fair to her, to have me give up on her, but I'm now more concerned for the saftey of the other animals than I am in seeing Annie fit in. I half expect to come home someday and see one of the cats, dead in bloody pool. I'll lose it if that were to ever happen.
Lm wants to continue to try and train her, even if it requires hiring an outside source. Part of me thinks its will just end up being money and time flushed down the toilet. I'm not sure if thats me be'n fed up with the dog, or me be'n realistic because the dog is just not a good fit for the family. lm has had wire hair fox terriers in the past. They are stubborn and tenacious, and we expected that, but even she (lm), will say that Annie is waaaaaay beyond anything she's even had to deal with.
Anybody out there got some words of advice? The dog, makes me want to punch her, and I hate myself for feeling that way.
help :'(
1 round to the back of the head
no reason to put up with a shit dog
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2008, 08:23:09 AM
1 round to the back of the head
no reason to put up with a shit dog
you know I cant do that, ya big meanie
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 08:25:18 AM
you know I cant do that, ya big meanie
I know
however
Humans keep pets to make life better
is the dog making life better?
is it worth it?
or
is it time to cut your losses?
i had a smooth fox terrier,
and she was also hard to train.
she was a jumper, a chewer, very energetic and also did not understand no.
she didn't have potty issues.
we got her a crate, and we ran her till she dropped.
persistence payed off and she eventually learned some rules.
i loved this dog, who was very affectionate, and VERY, VERY smart.
try getting a crate joel. it will at least keep her from hurting the other pets when you can't be there.
she spends her nights in a crate.... and will litterally scratch at the door ALL night.... every night. She never gets tired from the scratching at the door, and the "nobody is going to come open the door, so I should just give up" lesson is learned. Thats been going on since we got her.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 08:39:09 AM
she spends her nights in a crate.... and will litterally scratch at the door ALL night.... every night. She never gets tired from the scratching at the door, and the "nobody is going to come open the door, so I should just give up" lesson is learned. Thats been going on since we got her.
You should definitely put her in the crate during the daytime hours if no one is home...even if someone is home, try it for blocks of time. This should help with the potty training. I have found that letting have free roam and just letting them outside will not work. Do you have multiple levels to you house? If so, you can put her in the crate on another level while folks are there. As time progresses, you can give her more and more space.
As far as the nightime issue...where do the other dogs sleep? There could be an issue with isolation. You can also try to cover the crate with a blanket or towel.
If she is a jumper...put your knee into her chest when she does it...not hard but with enough force for her to understand that she doesn't want to do that.
I don't have much to add, but this guy is pretty amazing on TV. No FHE
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/
and to you South Park fans, he was featured in Season 10:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103795/?autoplay=false
Sounds like a case for Ceaser Milan
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/
Quote from: ducpenguin on July 22, 2008, 08:52:43 AM
If she is a jumper...put your knee into her chest when she does it...not hard but with enough force for her to understand that she doesn't want to do that.
kneeing our dog was hard to do, but it worked...
we had to get physical with her, words were not enough :-\
Quote from: CDawg on July 22, 2008, 08:54:06 AM
I don't have much to add, but this guy is pretty amazing on TV. No FHE
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/
and to you South Park fans, he was featured in Season 10:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103795/?autoplay=false
Stole my idea right as I was posting >:(
we watch the Cesar to pick up tips. 8)
Annie and the other dogs are outside during the day. We have a gated dog run on the side of the house, and we alternate who stays in it, and who gets to roam the yard. The cats are inside the house during the day.
All three dogs get along if lm and the boys stay away, so they can be left alone during they day, but the two other dogs will not play or hang out with Annie at all. We seperate them during the day, just to be safe. As soon as I come home, I open up the back yard so they can mingle if they so choose. We just have to makw sure, lm and the boys stay out of the back yard while they are mingling.
Bring in Ceaser on this one, apply for the show. Make sure and get a duc in the background somewhere during filming.
knee'n her does nothing.
last night, in an attempt to train and bring peace to the yard, I went outside and got Lily, as soon a I pick her up, Annie starts to attack, I knee'd her down, and at one point brushed her away with my foot, she hit the gate post with her head.... and it did nothing to stop her from wanting to go after lilly. The dog just will not stop when it gets it's mind set on something.
Quote from: madmax178 on July 22, 2008, 09:06:57 AM
Bring in Ceaser on this one, apply for the show. Make sure and get a duc in the background somewhere during filming.
getting duc stuff in shots would be easy.... the house is swimming in it [laugh]
one of our dogs is even named Desmo 8)
+1 for Cesar!!
It sounds like 3rd dog syndrome (I just made this up, but It's true).
2 dogs are great, but when you add the third, it's always going to be the pain in the ass dog. We have 2 dogs....they're fine. My parents have 3, the youngest is a pain in the ass. My grand parents have 3...the youngest is a pain in the ass. My wifes parents have three...guess where I'm going with this....
If it's a rescue dog....the rescue place should be open to taking it back if it can't get along with the other animals in your house. I know when I had my rescue husky, they told me they would take it back in a heartbeat if it didn't get along with the other dogs. No harm, no foul.
Shock Collar
http://www.jibjab.com/view/100306 (http://www.jibjab.com/view/100306)
Quote from: Le Pirate on July 22, 2008, 09:26:05 AM
It sounds like 3rd dog syndrome (I just made this up, but It's true).
it would be interesting to see how annie behaves as an only pet...
Quote from: GLantern on July 22, 2008, 09:20:52 AM
+1 for Cesar!!
I think you should do your best to apply Cesar's approach. It is simple. Be the pack leader, give the problem dog a job, and lots of structured exercise. I've had lots of dogs but never a terrier. Keep in mind that they were breed to kill rats. It sounds like a lot of the breed in behavior is coming out. How I approach training is to let my dogs know that I am in charge. I never give in to bad behavior, like your scratching to get out of the crate. Train the dog to respond to a few simple commands and never forget to praise the dog for doing the right thing. By learning simple commands the dog will learn how to learn and your praise will make it fun. Once the dog learns how to learn simple things and that you are the pack leader addition learning will become easy. For discipline I use a 3 level approach that imitates the way a true canine pack leader would discipline pack members. 1. Yell and gesture when the dog it is bad. Look mad as hell and scary. 2. For more serious infractions or if 1 has no impact grab the dog by the scruff of the neck and shake the dog along with yelling and looking mad and mean. 3. Put the dog on its back and hold it there until it submits. Whimpers and wining are a sign of submission. You can also hold the dogs head back and flat to the ground so that its throat is exposed. This position exposes all the dogs vulnerable body parts and demands submission. I have found that hitting a headstrong dog just messes the dog up and triggers a defensive reaction. Control your anger and stick to the 3 steps. Note that in the above I said act mean, keep your true emotions under control. For problem dogs that run away I use a shock collar.
But emphasize the praise and positive aspects of training. Once you establish yourself as the pack leader and that doing what you want is fun you will seldom have to use the discipline techniques.
Quote from: DuCaTiNi on July 22, 2008, 09:43:52 AM
it would be interesting to see how annie behaves as an only pet...
I think that Annie would still be a problem dog. I suspect that Annie's previous owners did not provide her with any structure and in
the end she became her own pack leader.
I'm pretty sure the dogs (as a group) behave and dont attack each other, because, I'm the pack leader, and when lm or the boys are with them, and I'm not there, they fight. But thats just one of the problems thats kind of been solved. Traning lm and the boys to act as pack leaders, I think would be a lil harder.
getting Annie to stop attacking the cats is #1
getting Annie to stop shitting and pissing in the house #2
getting Annie to stop jumping on the furniture #3
getting the other dogs to play with Annie #4
right now... doing the pet/food/sleep arangements shuffle has worn me out, and I'm at a point where I'm not thrilled about anting to help make it better.
we have two carpet cleaners, one small, and one large, and I'm sick and tired of running them both daily. To have a pet that just sits outside all day, is stupid.
If the dog is being aggressive towards other animals, you have two options:
1. Have the dog put down for its own good
2. Find a rescue group willing to take a dog that can't associate with other animals.
Remember, you got a rescue. You had no idea where that dog has been before.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 22, 2008, 10:34:24 AM
If the dog is being aggressive towards other animals, you have two options:
1. Have the dog put down for its own good
2. Find a rescue group willing to take a dog that can't associate with other animals.
Remember, you got a rescue. You had no idea where that dog has been before.
I say... the dog is attacking the cats
lm says... it want to play with them, albeit rough.
I can sort of see that.... but.... Bob (as an example), does not want to play, and will make the beast with two backs that dog up in the process. Annie will contine to "play" with Bob, until you pull her away bleeding, and even then, she tries to pull away so she can get back into it. I dont want to come home someday, and find a dead pet, be it dog or cat.
The dog, according to the vet, is as close to a pure bread as you can get. Both lm and myself, were kind of suprised to find her in a shelter,thinking, who would ditch a purebread terrier? I'm kinda wondering if the dog was let out on purpose. I hate the thought of taking her back to a shelter.
which idea do you hate more
new dog back to the shelter?
or
coming home and finding bob with his stuffing strewn all over the floor?
bob can totally take annie [roll]
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 10:52:25 AM
I say... the dog is attacking the cats
lm says... it want to play with them, albeit rough.
I can sort of see that.... but.... Bob (as an example), does not want to play, and will make the beast with two backs that dog up in the process. Annie will contine to "play" with Bob, until you pull her away bleeding, and even then, she tries to pull away so she can get back into it. I dont want to come home someday, and find a dead pet, be it dog or cat.
The dog, according to the vet, is as close to a pure bread as you can get. Both lm and myself, were kind of suprised to find her in a shelter,thinking, who would ditch a purebread terrier? I'm kinda wondering if the dog was let out on purpose. I hate the thought of taking her back to a shelter.
Get rid of the dog dude.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 22, 2008, 11:01:33 AM
Get rid of the dog dude.
this pains me
but
I have to agree with Jud
Quote from: DuCaTiNi on July 22, 2008, 10:58:07 AM
bob can totally take annie [roll]
lm says the same thing.... but.... if left alone.... Annie does not give up, and if Annie gets one good lunge in ,all it will take is one good shake of the neck.
It's that not giving up thing that scares and pisses me off.... and at what time does the play become attack?
FTR... we have had three dogs. Our last dog Topaz, was a wire hair fox terrier. Topaz was nowhere near the spaz Annie is. (Topaz died of old age a few months ago)
Quote from: Mother on July 22, 2008, 11:05:30 AM
this pains me
but
I have to agree with Jud
Wow, this might be an all time first
I have to agree with Cyrus, too. :o
The dog has definately wornout it's welcome in your home.
Personally, I would put it down.
if shows aggression towards other animals, that isn't cool.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 22, 2008, 11:47:09 AM
Personally, I would put it down.
if shows aggression towards other animals, that isn't cool.
that.... I cannot do.
It may be overly playfull, borderline agressive towards the other animals, but to put it down, because it simply does not fit in with our family, is not right. In another setting, for another family, it may be the perfect dog.
Right now, I want the dog gone, but..... as stated before, I'm not 100% sure, I want it gone because I'm currently pissed, or if I want it gone because it's just not trained, and can it be trained?
I've never been around a dog that was this stubborn.
If the dog can be trained, I would love to have as part of our family, I'm just worn out, and feel like giving up.
I think some other people on the board hit the nail on the head when they stated the dog is it's own pack leader. She lacks any respect for you or the rest of the family (yeah, even you, because she doesn't really listen to you, does she). The first thing would be to get her respect the whole family. Now that is difficult, because it will take the whole family's participation, PLUS it's gonna be a heck of a lot of work. The real question is are you willing to put the work in.
I can tell you right now that what you have is hours, days, weeks, and month's worth of work here. Consistant work. Once you get the respect, then the rest will be a little easier, but lack of respect is the main problem here. She's not only a dominant personality, but her prey drive is extremely high, from what you've written. I'm not really surprised, since she's a terrier. You'll need to redirect her focus from dogs and cats to something else. She'd probably make an excellent flyball or agility candidate. She will need consistant exercise, preferably with the whole family plus the other dogs. Then, when they're all tuckered out, she should be exercised some more on her own, to get her excess energy drained. Maybe bike with her running for a few miles.
This isn't an easy personality to work with, but it can be done. The real question is if you have the time and patience to do it. If you don't, you don't. There is a home out there that she will fit into. She may not fit into your family that well, and if that is the case you need to take care of your other animals before one of them gets hurt. Don't feel bad, it happens.
As far as potty training goes. I would approach it like she's a five week old puppy. KEY is to supervise her at ALL TIMES.. Take her out every 10-15 minutes and praise her to high heaven when she goes outside. If you are consistant, she'll eventually get it, though it will probably take a lot longer because she's in the habit of going in the house. If you can't supervise her directly, then keep her in the crate until you can. Keep her on a leash next to you at all times if you have to(this will also help with her going after cats-you can train at all times then). If she goes, you can catch her in the act and growl "NO" at her as she's doing it. Then immediately go outside and if she goes you can praise her. It's frustrating, and it will take awhile, but eventually she'll get it.
Regular obediance training will also be good for her and make it easier for you to control her. Good luck, I hope it works out for you and her, whatever you decide.
Celeste
Dog wants to fit in, and to be loved.
Currently not possible for dog in your household.
Do right by the dog and find it another household where it only animal.
dog happy then.
Quote from: MonsterLove on July 22, 2008, 12:08:42 PM
I think some other people on the board hit the nail on the head when they stated the dog is it's own pack leader. She lacks any respect for you or the rest of the family (yeah, even you, because she doesn't really listen to you, does she). The first thing would be to get her respect the whole family. Now that is difficult, because it will take the whole family's participation, PLUS it's gonna be a heck of a lot of work. The real question is are you willing to put the work in.
I can tell you right now that what you have is hours, days, weeks, and month's worth of work here. Consistant work. Once you get the respect, then the rest will be a little easier, but lack of respect is the main problem here. She's not only a dominant personality, but her prey drive is extremely high, from what you've written. I'm not really surprised, since she's a terrier. You'll need to redirect her focus from dogs and cats to something else. She'd probably make an excellent flyball or agility candidate. She will need consistant exercise, preferably with the whole family plus the other dogs. Then, when they're all tuckered out, she should be exercised some more on her own, to get her excess energy drained. Maybe bike with her running for a few miles.
This isn't an easy personality to work with, but it can be done. The real question is if you have the time and patience to do it. If you don't, you don't. There is a home out there that she will fit into. She may not fit into your family that well, and if that is the case you need to take care of your other animals before one of them gets hurt. Don't feel bad, it happens.
As far as potty training goes. I would approach it like she's a five week old puppy. KEY is to supervise her at ALL TIMES.. Take her out every 10-15 minutes and praise her to high heaven when she goes outside. If you are consistant, she'll eventually get it, though it will probably take a lot longer because she's in the habit of going in the house. If you can't supervise her directly, then keep her in the crate until you can. Keep her on a leash next to you at all times if you have to(this will also help with her going after cats-you can train at all times then). If she goes, you can catch her in the act and growl "NO" at her as she's doing it. Then immediately go outside and if she goes you can praise her. It's frustrating, and it will take awhile, but eventually she'll get it.
Regular obediance training will also be good for her and make it easier for you to control her. Good luck, I hope it works out for you and her, whatever you decide.
Celeste
thank you.
I'm not sure, we as a family can spend as much time with her as needed to do this, as both lm and myself work. We had both assumed that getting a dog that was a lil older, it would fit in and be a lil easier to train, than that of a puppy. We both knew we didn't have the time a puppy would need.
right now.... I have zero patience for it. I cant speak for lm, but I know she's getting there.
You're probably better off finding another home for her then, or taking her back to the rescue. Or find another terrier rescue group, if the one you got her from doesn't take animals back. If you don't have the resources to work with her(time etc) then it's not fair to you or her to continue on this way. As it is now, it sounds miserable. There might even be a terrier club in your city that might be able to help you. Good luck!
Celeste
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 12:17:48 PM
thank you.
I'm not sure, we as a family can spend as much time with her as needed to do this, as both lm and myself work. We had both assumed that getting a dog that was a lil older, it would fit in and be a lil easier to train, than that of a puppy. We both knew we didn't have the time a puppy would need.
right now.... I have zero patience for it. I cant speak for lm, but I know she's getting there.
I have to agree with mosterlover. He has stated concepts that provides great additional points to what I tried to say earlier. I am picking up that you are
approaching this as a family project. I see it as a project for the one person who the dogs identify as the pack leader. The family can have a secondary roll. I also agree with mosterlover that it will take some time to accomplish. This dog has been his own boss with his previous owners and that is probably how she ended up as a rescue dog. One of mosterlovers suggestions that I really liked, was to give this dog a job. There was a PBS program that showed how 2 problem dogs became valuable animals by being trained intensely to do the jobs they were breed to for. You may not have rats to kill, but mosterlover's suggestions are good alternatives. By the way the show was on Nature and you may be able to find out more at the PBS website, copies may be available. It was very inspiring and it may give you useful ideas. My own dogs have jobs as working huskies and our pack (including me and my wife) are most happy and excited when running and pulling.
I'm glad that you are not willing to put this dog down. If you don't have the time to fix this dog yourself it is completely understandable. If that is the case, hopefully you can find someone that does.
ftr... monsterlove is a she ;) [laugh]
maybe I can bring the dog to work with me..... she can chase away the hobags
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
ftr... monsterlove is a she ;) [laugh]
maybe I can bring the dog to work with me..... she can chase away the hobags
If you can, I recommend it. I have done this with both my dogs and the extra time is awesome. Crate, crate, crate!!! Structure the pup's time and you be the one to start and stop all play, walks, etc. I would actually remove the dog from the family unit until you get it bonded to you, as its pack leader. Crate the dog at home, and structure its time out of the crate, as well. It's not permanent. If it's not possible, maybe it's best to find the pup a new home.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 01:39:02 PM
ftr... monsterlove is a she ;) [laugh]
maybe I can bring the dog to work with me..... she can chase away the hobags
LOL Yeah, that zombie in the pic is me! My husband would definately agree I'm a she ;)
[laugh]
Quote from: Sinister on July 22, 2008, 01:46:42 PM
If you can, I recommend it. I have done this with both my dogs and the extra time is awesome. Crate, crate, crate!!! Structure the pup's time and you be the one to start and stop all play, walks, etc. I would actually remove the dog from the family unit until you get it bonded to you, as its pack leader. Crate the dog at home, and structure its time out of the crate, as well. It's not permanent. If it's not possible, maybe it's best to find the pup a new home.
I was kinda joking, but I think it actually may help.
Thanks peoples.
I dont like the feeling of having failed the dog, and getting the her was an even mix of getting lm what she wanted and trying to save a dog. Having to figure this all out has been very difficult.
"" the word "No!" means nothing to her. She jumps on the furniture whenever she wants, even after repeated "no!" tranings sessions. She climbs on the tables if you turn your back on her, and will only get down if you walk towards her....telling her to get down, gets you nowhere. ""
First things first................... You say you watch Cesar to get tips. Do you read the "Do not attempt to try this, leave to a professional""?? Apparently Annie is the ALPHA dog right now. You need to sign her up for obedience classes, ask Vets. around you to recommend a good one. It's from my experience that a "bull headed" dog is the easiest to train once they learn who's boss.... They end up doing nothing but trying to please you.
Quote from: MonsterLove on July 22, 2008, 01:50:23 PM
LOL Yeah, that zombie in the pic is me! My husband would definately agree I'm a she ;)
[laugh]
Oh Oh. MY bad. Sorry MonsterLover. It must have been your makeup the threw me off.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 01:52:15 PM
I was kinda joking, but I think it actually may help.
Thanks peoples.
I dont like the feeling of having failed the dog, and getting the her was an even mix of getting lm what she wanted and trying to save a dog. Having to figure this all out has been very difficult.
Bobspapa, you haven't failed this dog. The previous owner did. If in the end you find that you don't have enough time to fix her, you shouldn't blame yourself. It is much harder to fix a dog that someone else has screwed up than to bring up a pup to fit into your family and lifestyle.
I've never used a crate to train a dog so take this bit of advice for what it is worth. But I think that the crate, if over used, could backfire in this case. Your dog has a lot of energy that it needs to work off. If you do confine the dog, taking her for a hard run before you do a training session with it should make it much more manageable.
Quote from: akmnstr on July 22, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
I've never used a crate to train a dog so take this bit of advice for what it is worth. But I think that the crate, if over used, could backfire in this case. Your dog has a lot of energy that it needs to work off. If you do confine the dog, taking her for a hard run before you do a training session with it should make it much more manageable.
The point of the crate is to give a dog a place it feels safe, and to reinforce that it moves about at your leisure, not its own...again, part of the pack thing. Good advice on letting the dog get the wiggles out before training. While some may call this airing time 'unstructured' it is actually an important part of the training process. Also, after a training session, crate the dog immediately for at least an hour. Dogs learn by taking snapshots in their minds; giving the dog time alone after training allows these training 'snapshots' to better cement into their experience. It moves them along faster.
Quote from: Sinister on July 22, 2008, 01:46:42 PM
If you can, I recommend it. I have done this with both my dogs and the extra time is awesome. Crate, crate, crate!!! Structure the pup's time and you be the one to start and stop all play, walks, etc. I would actually remove the dog from the family unit until you get it bonded to you, as its pack leader. Crate the dog at home, and structure its time out of the crate, as well. It's not permanent. If it's not possible, maybe it's best to find the pup a new home.
+1...this is definitely the way to go from what I have been hearing from you. You certainly have the right intentions, and that is honorable. If this solution doesn't work, it may be best to find another home...but you should really try this for a few weeks. While you and Im are at work, leave her in the crate, just be sure to give praise when you get home and she has not messed in it. Take her out and she will begin to pick up the habits of the other dogs.
Good luck!
Oops...someone beat me to it!
Quote from: muscle_cars_only on July 22, 2008, 01:56:12 PM
First things first................... You say you watch Cesar to get tips. Do you read the "Do not attempt to try this, leave to a professional""??
That dude isn't a professional either. He just has a TV show. And there are plenty of people who don't think his methods are worth a lot in the long run.
One thing I didn't see in the OP was if you introduced your dogs to the new one before you brought her home. That is always a good step to take before introducing a new dog into the home of existing dogs (and cats, I guess). Can help to sort out personality conflicts right away.
Quote from: DCXCV on July 22, 2008, 04:06:08 PM
One thing I didn't see in the OP was if you introduced your dogs to the new one before you brought her home. That is always a good step to take before introducing a new dog into the home of existing dogs (and cats, I guess). Can help to sort out personality conflicts right away.
that was a tricky step. for the first few days, we had to keep them seperated because Annie had a slight case of "kennel cough" whatever that was, and was on meds. She was well enough for us to adopt her, but they advised us to keep her away from the other pets for a few days.
we did ease them into meeting each othe, when the meds were gone.
I looked up the web page for the "Nature" show I mentioned in an earlier post. The episode is named Underdogs. Here is the link http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/underdogs/introduction/352/
Annie is not that much different from the 2 stars of this program.
Quote from: akmnstr on July 22, 2008, 04:19:54 PM
I looked up the web page for the "Nature" show I mentioned in an earlier post. The episode is named misfits. Here is the link http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/underdogs/introduction/352/
Annie is not that much different from the 2 stars of this program.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: akmnstr on July 22, 2008, 01:58:18 PM
Oh Oh. MY bad. Sorry MonsterLover. It must have been your makeup the threw me off.
No No No
Monsterlover is a dewd
MonsterLove is a skirt
Flesh Mechanic and Grief Mop < mom = the new old Sac [laugh]
Quote from: bobspapa on July 22, 2008, 04:30:44 PM
Flesh Mechanic and Grief Mop < mom = the new old Sac [laugh]
he was always my hero
Quote from: silentbob on July 22, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
you do know.... lm is never, ever gonna let me hang out with you [laugh]
I'm going to have to lie. "Honey Bunny, I'm gonna go visit John." [laugh]
I gotta say people this isn't the previous owners fault. This dog is a Fox Terrior, You have to know and appreciate the breed
for what it is. Nothing except for the crapping in the house suprises me. That needs some work and the crate will help totally with that.
Fox Terriors are knuckleheads to an extreme. They are hard to train, they do get something in their head and that's all they
will think about. My folks have had them for years, I personally hate the breed. But I do respect their toughness and tenacity.
You really have to love the breed because you can't change the way that breed is going to act and they all act
generally the same. Like I said none of this is new to me. If you really don't want her, google, fox terrior rescues and give them a call.
They will usually take the dog and find them a new home.
Quote from: silentbob on July 22, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
bob is so fulla shit, he aint shootin no dog, and lm would catch bp in a second
Quote from: silentbob on July 22, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
The use of pain, as a reinforcer, in this situation would probably make things worse.
Quote from: Sinister on July 23, 2008, 07:32:27 AM
The use of pain, as a reinforcer, in this situation would probably make things worse.
lm found a trainer yesterday who says.... " yer dog is fixable"
so..... looks like we'll hunker down and weather the Annie storm.
train lm to be a pack leader
train the boys to be pack leaders
train annie
looks like I'm gonna need 4 shock collars [laugh]
i'm glad you all decided to hunker down and give annie a chance to learn :)
good luck annie!
Quote from: bobspapa on July 23, 2008, 08:01:28 AM
looks like I'm gonna need 4 shock collars [laugh]
And a bottle of Patron for yourself.
Quote from: Sinister on July 23, 2008, 08:50:15 AM
And a bottle of Patron for yourself.
best advice ev'a
Just got back on here after yesterday-that's cool you're gonna go the distance! [clap] Best of luck to you guys, having a professional help will definately get things going in the right direction. Let us know how things go!
Celeste
Good luck BP! It's nice to see people give rescue dogs with baggage a chance. [thumbsup]
Glad to hear you found a trainer to help. An in-person evaluation and advice will be worth far more than any advice we can give you here. [thumbsup]
BTW, I can highly recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Karen-Pryor/dp/1860542387/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216916828&sr=8-1
Despite the title, it is not just about dog training, but about how to use positive reinforcement for behavioral modification (in many different situations). The author's background is in dolphin training, something that you cannot use shock or choke collars for.
Good luck and keep us updated. :)
thanks peoples [thumbsup]
when I started this thread..... I was ready to boot the dog. Since then, my anger and frustration have subsided, due in part, to everybodys encouragement. If Annie could.... I'm sure she would thank you all.....
and then go shit on Mothers and Juds carpet [laugh]
Quote from: bobspapa on July 24, 2008, 10:03:04 AM
and then go shit on Mothers and Juds carpet [laugh]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: bobspapa on July 24, 2008, 10:03:04 AM
thanks peoples [thumbsup]
when I started this thread..... I was ready to boot the dog. Since then, my anger and frustration was subsided, due in part, to everybodys encouragement. If Annie could.... I'm sure she would thank you all.....
and then go shit on Mothers and Juds carpet [laugh]
Mother would have to have carpet for that to happen. I heard he lives in a cave and eats kittehs.... :o
Quote from: JBubble on July 24, 2008, 10:22:25 AM
Mother would have to have carpet for that to happen. I heard he lives in a cave and eats kittehs.... :o
[laugh]
Today.... lm had a date with a local dog trainer.
I just got a phone call from Michelle say'n that Annie attacked Bob this morning after I left for work. The other two dogs joined in (pack mentality).
Bob looks like hell, but from a quick check from Michelle...he appears to be ok, hopefully he's still ok by the time I get home.
I'm giving up on Annie.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 30, 2008, 08:48:46 AM
Today.... lm had a date with a local dog trainer.
I just got a phone call from Michelle say'n that Annie attacked Bob this morning after I left for work. The other two dogs joined in (pack mentality).
Bob looks like hell, but from a quick check from Michelle...he appears to be ok, hopefully he's still ok by the time I get home.
I'm giving up on Annie.
Sorry, time to shoot her.
Bob may still need to see a vet-kitties can go into shock.
it sounds stupid...but I feel betrayed.
Last night, Michelle gave Annie a bath, and I spent some time, primping her for her training session (Annie). I hugged her, brushed her, played with her, fed her....and this is how you repay me.... you make the beast with two backs up my friend.
And to top it off..... I'm stuck here at work and can't go check on Bob. Michelle is going to check on him at lunch, but, not see'n him personally...is kill'n me. :'(
make the beast with two backs!
damn that sucks! :'(
sorry joel :-\
I'm really sorry that Annie isn't going to work out in your house. Is the rescue open to taking her back and trying to find another home for her?
Damn. :(
Hope Bob's OK..... :-\
Quote from: Kyna on July 30, 2008, 09:54:34 AM
I'm really sorry that Annie isn't going to work out in your house. Is the rescue open to taking her back and trying to find another home for her?
I dunno.... this is all kind of sudden.
Michelle is going to search out options. We picked Annie up at a shelter in Riverside Ca, we live in Bakersfield. I'm not going to just take her to the local shelter. Annie need to be in a home where she's the only pet. I'm sure we'll search out a private home for her first, then contact a terrier rescue facility if that does not pan out.
Anyone want a fluffy spaz of a dog?
Quote from: bobspapa on July 30, 2008, 10:02:24 AM
Anyone want a fluffy spaz of a dog?
Mother might if he's hungry.
Quote from: Speedbag on July 30, 2008, 09:59:57 AM
Damn. :(
Hope Bob's OK..... :-\
+1 That really sucks. I'd do the same.
lm's checked on Bob He seems fine, but he's hiding under the bed and wont come out. She does not want to pull him out from under it.
f'n pets
Quote from: bobspapa on July 30, 2008, 10:02:24 AM
I dunno.... this is all kind of sudden.
Michelle is going to search out options. We picked Annie up at a shelter in Riverside Ca, we live in Bakersfield. I'm not going to just take her to the local shelter. Annie need to be in a home where she's the only pet. I'm sure we'll search out a private home for her first, then contact a terrier rescue facility if that does not pan out.
Anyone want a fluffy spaz of a dog?
It is pretty common for rescues and shelters to include a clause in the adoption contract stating that if you decide to not keep the animal they are to be returned to the same shelter or rescue. There are different possible explanations for this (they want the money for the next adoption/make sure animal goes to an "approved" home), but some places make a real ruckus if you don't abide by that particular clause. Just something to keep in mind. It sounds like Annie has caused a lot of headachs already, it's be a shame for her leaving to cause even more trouble.
Quote from: Kyna on July 30, 2008, 12:58:19 PM
It is pretty common for rescues and shelters to include a clause in the adoption contract stating that if you decide to not keep the animal they are to be returned to the same shelter or rescue. There are different possible explanations for this (they want the money for the next adoption/make sure animal goes to an "approved" home), but some places make a real ruckus if you don't abide by that particular clause. Just something to keep in mind. It sounds like Annie has caused a lot of headachs already, it's be a shame for her leaving to cause even more trouble.
I'll look over the paperwork tonght.
not thrilled about another 6 hour trip.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 30, 2008, 01:10:54 PM
I'll look over the paperwork tonght.
not thrilled about another 6 hour trip.
mail the carcass back UPSthere must be some sort of doggy shipping service
My offer still stands.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 30, 2008, 10:02:24 AM
I dunno.... this is all kind of sudden.
Michelle is going to search out options. We picked Annie up at a shelter in Riverside Ca, we live in Bakersfield. I'm not going to just take her to the local shelter. Annie need to be in a home where she's the only pet. I'm sure we'll search out a private home for her first, then contact a terrier rescue facility if that does not pan out.
Anyone want a fluffy spaz of a dog?
Pawning this problem off onto someone else is not an option. The dog should be put down before it does damage to anyone else...opening you up to a potential lawsuit. Sorry it didn't work, Joel, but don't just pass the buck.
Quote from: Sinister on July 30, 2008, 02:00:32 PM
Pawning this problem off onto someone else is not an option. The dog should be put down before it does damage to anyone else...opening you up to a potential lawsuit. Sorry it didn't work, Joel, but don't just pass the buck.
Michelle has final say in all this.
I personally think she would be a good dog for somebody who has.. A: lots of time to spend with her and B: no other pets.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 30, 2008, 02:06:33 PM
Michelle has final say in all this.
I personally think she would be a good dog for somebody who has.. A: lots of time to spend with her and B: no other pets.
And: C: someone who has the skill to deal with ingrained aggression issues. The dog's problems won't go away with just a change of ownership, environment, etc. The same stressors will be there, waiting to be triggered.
this sucks..... I feel like I'm sending my kid to jail
Do you ever watch Animal Planet? Victoria is awesome, or maybe I just like to hear her speak. [popcorn]
http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/its-me-or-the-dog/its-me-or-the-dog.html
No really, she has great advise for bad dog habits. It reminds me of the right things to do when my dog are bad.
Sounds like you are on the right track already however. Good Luck!
-cookie
I understand your sense of being betrayed. One of my dogs bit(a light graze really) my daughter on the cheek when she got to rough once. Needless to say he was gone pronto, but I couldn't even look at him from then until he was gone. He just didn't even look the same to me.
Quote from: Sinister on July 30, 2008, 02:10:14 PM
And: C: someone who has the skill to deal with ingrained aggression issues. The dog's problems won't go away with just a change of ownership, environment, etc. The same stressors will be there, waiting to be triggered.
Negative. We are talking about a fox terrier here. It needs exactly what Bob said, a home with no other pets. Then a dedicated owner who trains the dog daily. The dog will make a wonderful pet once it learns the program.
I've found that at, least with dogs, it's easier to introduce a new pet when it's a baby. Our dog came in as a 4 lb. pup. She got beat down by the 7 and 10 lb cats and learned her place. By the time she got bigger then them they were buds.
Sorry Joel. I agree that she needs a new home, one without other animals.
Dog-dog aggression is totally different from dog-person aggression.
lil update..
Bob is ok. He's moving a lil slower than normal, but appears to be ok. No blood shed, and giving him lil squeezes around his body, don't seem to cause him any pain. I found his collar out in the yard this morning, where the dogs had torn it off him.
There is a good chance that Michelles ex will take Annie. She'll be an only child over there. The boys and Michelle will also be able to see her from time to time.
If that does not work out, we'll look into finding a good family to adopt her. There was nothing in our adoption papers stating that the Riverside shelter wanted her back in the event we were not a good match. If we cant find a good family for her, we'll contact a terrier rescue group. The terrier rescue people have stipulations in the adoption process, that you return the dog to them if they are not a good match.
Michelle spoke with the trainer yesterday, and told them about what had happened, and asked if that problem can be trained out of her.The trainer said that Annie can be trained to follow commands, which would be great, if we are around her and the other pets 24/7, but Annie will always be a tenacious terrier, and if nobody is around to command her to stop, cats and other small animals will almost always be considered prey to her.
Just to be clear... not that it matters, Annie is not agressive to people in any way. She piss's the other dogs off, which I attribute to her level of energy, but has never been aggressive towards them, they snip at her when she she's bouncing around them. (except when I'm around) Annie just cant seem to leave the cats alone. If they run.... she runs. If they take a swipe at her, thats like flipping a switch in her, and she goes into "hunt" mode. Thats the only time she is agressive. Other than that.... she's a very sweet dog.
We have..... 3 cats (and Eddie, the community cat), two dogs, a lizard, hissing cockroaches, and an assortment of other caged bugs. Annie's just not a Brady Bunch kind of dog.
man
just reading the issues with that dog has worn me out
[coffee]
Quote from: Mother on July 31, 2008, 07:55:03 AM
man
just reading the issues with that dog has worn me out
[coffee]
[laugh]
I'm glad you have come up with a couple of potential solutions with what to do with Annie. She sounds like she wasn't exposed to cats when she was younger, and it may be too late to "train" her not to harrass them now. It is good to hear Annie isn't aggressive towards people, that should make her easier to place with someone who has no other pets (or small children) and plenty of time for her. Good luck.
Quote from: bobspapa on July 31, 2008, 07:49:28 AM
Annie's just not a Brady Bunch kind of dog.
that's a great way to describe her BP [thumbsup] [laugh]
good news about LM's ex taking her in, i hope it works out :)