Ducati Monster Forum

 [laugh]

Heads: valve seats refurbished, valves refurbished, one valve guide drilled and put in sleeve, seals replaced, cams saved, five rockers replaced

Cylinders: another 20-30,000 km of life left. New nicasil or something else....

Pistons: no cracks, all rings good, compression test good

Crank and rods: good

Gear box: output shaft replaced because of wear under the sprocket, gears a little worn
 
Cases replaced: crack by the belt drive, crack at front right motor mount

Starter 'clutch': spinning a little, replaced

Runs: ~10 degrees C hotter, 10% better mileage


Issues: not-perfect intake port & polish rom previous builder holds it back, oil leak rear right cylinder vs cases (the usual place)(plugged, but still leaks)(updates to follow)


(https://i.postimg.cc/BvgmtvB1/Italia-2020-018.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwxVTm5Y)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Px52DkSV/Italia-2020-020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJFwGFDb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N0g4hcvG/Italia-2020-016.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhxddg0g)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zGTtZ7L7/Italia-2020-015.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKf7R1k2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yNBfVRcH/Italia-2020-014.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrZ0zV6Z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/90qPPXZb/Italia-2020-022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gLm6mWML)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wMSVnRgn/Italia-2020-021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/64fnv37h)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JtVNpwQL/Italia-2020-027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cthtJbj9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7PCjtgNs/Italia-2020-024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqBPNJyK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qRFXC6hg/Italia-2020-026.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47zhDd1T)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6QYhtmBr/Italia-2020-028.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtRNkFyM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/brzDrzLd/Italia-2020-053.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

 [beer] [popcorn]

All finished? Dyno results?

What do mean? "Finished"?

Back to the ~99 "Ducati calculated" bhp.

 [thumbsup]

What year bike is that?  ~120,000 miles?  Nice!

2007

Some of it is older and some of it is newer, but very little is original.

I don’t know if Ducati has changed the 797 engine over to the plain beatings yet, but that could be a modification / upgrade if you care to next time...

Are cracked engine mounts common on the high mileage bikes?

Plain bearings.... where?



Not to my knowledge, but this might be connected to a big track highsider. All engines will crack sooner or later, so old age might be the reason...

The more common crack area is behind the belt drive shaft / front of main bearing.

I know the plain bearing cranks started with the 821 back in like ‘15.  They’re slowly converting the engines to plain bearings.  I’m not sure if that process has trickled down to the 797 engines yet.  Which is also the same engine as the Scrambler 800...  Just wanted you to have options & maybe a more reliable engine and/or a couple more HP.

Repair Job completed, or Project completed? ;D

Never finished.

Not even job complete when there is an oil leak.

 [Dolph]

I think it's time for an 1100Evo motor😎.

Duck-Stew
Are you saying the crank main bearings are now sleeve type (bottom end rod bearings?  Does that reduce friction?  I can see the weight savings.  I presume the insert would be a full circle not 1/2 like rod bearing inserts.
Thanks,  Sterling

Yes. Ducati has moved (or is moving) away from angular ball bearings on the crankshaft.  What also comes along for the ride is an improved oil pump (less drag, or more HP).

Look at a crankcase parts diagram from like a 2017 Supersport 939...

 
[popcorn]

always interesting to hear about high km ("mileage" for you "mericans") bikes that are kept going by enthusiastic mechanically minded experts; is Ducati aware of you work and bike?

 [Dolph]

Cheers Ducd03

I did send them a couple of emails, but no response. It could have turned 199,999 during World Ducati Week and that might have been interesting for the PR people, so I thought. No WDW because of the Corona. Also, this bike is now very far from 'original' and that makes it less interesting.

A chapter

(https://i.postimg.cc/cLfMbQDF/199999-005.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/685v7GxZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pLjqtNdY/199999-007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0z8ppBDb)

You've apparently run out of kilometers and must go buy more

... or should have gotten miles  ;)

Edit. Is there an instrument specialist that can reset it or is it cheaper to buy a new cluster? That's if it is at all posssible.


Story to cheer you up.
My Tom Tom GPS in my car fell and banged its head. When I  remounted it the device got amnesia and went back to the 60's! The device without any intervention began operating in miles and yards with an older style accent! True story. I've left it that way because I know both metric and imperial and because it's so funny. It must have had an auxiliary programme for the elderly.  ;D

Lars odometer must be made by tracfone. :P

What's tracfone?


SOS Diagnostic does it for $300 plus shipping both ways. Close to the price for new.

It really hurts to start at 0. Damn it, I have paid and suffered to get this far.

Tracfone is a cell service provider that sells by the minute...gig...text.

Run out, just buy more.

WTF!; … 200K and that's it! Like is wasn't ever supposed to go beyond 200; 200k kms and expired? send an email and let us know.  ….there robust engines... right?

Ducati should replace that gratis!; Or send it in and get them to fix / reprogram it so it keeps going!

Let us know we should start a campaign to keep it going; 200 k is quite amazing! [thumbsup] [beer]

 [Dolph]

I asked again and got a really good answer  [bow_down] Remains to be seen how good.

You need to update your sig line. ;D

Usually not until season's end  ;)

Be that way... :-*

That would be great to see how far it can go. [thumbsup]

There's no limit, almost.... as long as there are parts to buy, I can do 500,000 before I'm done  [Dolph]

I think I've broken the 'rules' about originality a long time ago. New frame? New engine parts? Probably not worth much. It could be different if it was untouched, but still not very valuable. If that's the case, it's now just a question of preference - new bike or keep the old running. It's a lot cheaper than buying new every second year. That's for sure.

Ok - next milestone 500,000 km  [thumbsup]

 [thumbsup]

 [beer]

 [Dolph]

- any replies from Ducati fixing the odometer ------ blank on your instrument cluster? -

Maybe not valuable, but quite remarkable.

Yes  [thumbsup]




.... and absolutely valuable to me  :)

Stuff through winter.


Axle splines gradually worse. It was time. I bought a used swingarm a few years ago and the seller let me have the hub too. So today I started with the axle. Once the bike was up it was easy enough.

Wheel off. Fairly new quick change sprocket flange off. Conical spacer. One large spring clip. Washer. Brake caliper. Careful knock. Grease here and there. Back together. I hopefully didn't damage the bearings.

Chain replacement. I just recently started doing the chain myself. I could do without the fiddlyness.... I bought two extra master links and today I used both  [bang]  First I tightened JUST a hair too much. Next the plate was uneven and the link I didn't check was too tight. Third was careful enough.


(https://i.postimg.cc/sfwM1H9x/Vinter-2021-063.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3RqGVrY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y97vLJsG/Vinter-2021-064.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mcs6hrxq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4gD32Xc/Vinter-2021-066.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qtBBDHP1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4yLyMnNV/Vinter-2021-065.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vxnGxYnZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RFTN7XkP/Vinter-2021-067.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBCbZFK3)

^  (I think the washer location is wrong... probably not under the conical spacer, but under the axle nut)


Caliper and brake piston wash. New sinter pads, one step above my previous. Always a good feeling to add stopping power.

(https://i.postimg.cc/zfDBJy7b/Noise-Big-016.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nX5Z2c6p)

(https://i.postimg.cc/28v3TR36/Noise-Big-017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HVYpsNwD)

I'm trying to locate the source of a singing noise, from 4,000 revs and up. Made an attempt with my new stethoscope and got higher pitched noise, not louder, on the horizontal cam cover and the front+upper part of the generator cover.

https://youtu.be/aOukWM1yIZg

Bearing in alt cover slightly worn?

Good possibility. 

Which bearing?

The high pitch sound is coming from just over the timing gear(s?). That's my impression, anyway.

Couldn't tell that in the video.  Removing the belt covers might help you.

How?

Mine are partially open. No high pitch sound from the aluminum under them.

Just trying to do my best from the video and your feedback.  Internet diagnosis is difficult.  Maybe a video where you let us hear directly from the stethoscope as you go from part to part. 

 [thumbsup] cool idea. I'll see if I can get a good recording. It's back indoors and not mobile at the moment, but once it's outside again I'll report back.

In altcover, were crank ends. Remove cover plate, you'll see it.

Ok, but there is no ugly sound there. The sound is two inches from that bearing. Maybe the sound travels before it reaches the surface....

I'm also waiting for the shop to chime in.

The shop had a good look this July. Removed flywheel too. Nothing bad. Put it back together - same sound. The remaining theory is that the clearances rings/cylinder walls are big enough to make the pistons move/float just enough to start vibrations.

They also changed the clutch. I now have the smoothest clutch ever made. Fantastic! Surflex  [thumbsup]

Excellent re clutch.
Piston slap diminish when motor hot?

We used to cut grooves in the steel to have less judder/grabbing. That works well, but this is another world.

Heat doesn't do much to the noise.

The search didn't find anything wrong. For now, the theory is worn rings/cylinder walls - producing this noise.

If next year's possible cylinder + pistons replacement happens - we'll know.

Maybe fin ring?

How about trying to source some 'hockey pucks' and jamb them between the cylinder fins?

That was the mechanic's first suggestion. Full new set (probably made of floor vinyl or similar), but no sound change. His 'large screw driver to the ear' method resulted in an audible noise on the cylinder wall. My stethoscope only pointed me towards two areas - just in front and just behind the horisontal cylinder. 

It was a thought...

shows you where thought will get you. ;D

Good thought though - Ducati did the puck thing to reduce the sound in exactly that area, so actually a little strange that different puck set ups didn't change the sound.... or maybe it did, but we didn't discover how/where.

Noise from the front and back of the cylinder is consistent with "piston rocking" causing slap of the piston skirt against the barrel.
Or not. ;D

Can't tell from the video, but piston slap is light compared to rod knock, at least twice as fast and can also be more of a rattle.  Also this  It will often get quieter as the engine warms up since clearances tighten.  You might try a heavier oil and see if that reduces the noise.  Over time piston slap will cause damage.

As explained to me, this is normal when clearances get too wide. Condition and clearances (rings and cylinder walls) were measured last year and said to be on their last two years.

I run 15/50 semi synthetic. Semi because of the clutch. Heavy because of air cooled tuned engine.

From another thread (about wheel stripes)

I know I've read your long thread detailing your bike before but I feel like we need another one. You ride so much your bike literally isn't the same bike you started with. You have more miles on that bike than I have on my daily driver car that I have owned for 19 years.


For me, the bike feels more and more mine and more and more complete, personal, together, soul'y and closer to completely custom. It's not untouched. It's legally the same bike, but most parts have been exchanged and/or modified.

The list:

Original, untouched parts:
EDIT spring 2022

• Linkage rocker and height adjuster rod (rod later 2022)
  rear brake master, caliper, fluid cup, light switch, hose and bracket
  electric boxes handle bar, both sides
  regulator/rectifier (yes!)
  battery tray
  ignition lock and seat lock (later 2022)
  tank prop rod (did not lose it!!!)
  under-seat plastic tray
  helmet locking wire (did not lose it!!!)
  front wheel axle (as far as I remember)
  chain slider (did not wear it down)(despite 14 t)
  side stand bracket
  starter
  belt wheels and rubber behind them
  ignition sensor
  valve rocker arm axles
  throttle bodies, injection, hoses and pressure regulator
  ~20 misc bolts
  
  
  
  
  Original, but modified parts:
  
  air box and open lid
  seat pan
  front fender, DIY painted
  swingarm, painted (replaced 2022)
  gear box, but exchanged output shaft
  gear change mechanism
  crank shaft, lightened and balanced
  cylinders, 1 x bore + 1 x honed (new 2022)
  

Soon another winter gone.

Still things to do, but some progress and a couple lessons learned.


The swingarm's right side axle hole wears during +200K km. Who knew....  I had a spare. Red is good, right?  :-\

I'm going to have a good fight with the bung/screw/plug in the exhaust (where the O2 sensor could go). I need it in the new mid-pipes.

Paint damages became really bad last fall. Small holes + water + frost = horrible flaking. No time or money to have it professionally done. Lesson; finer than 300 to get deep without stripes, circle movements, at least one coat wet/glossy, don't sand after just a day (paint not cured) - the final job with 2,000-2,500 paper and polish was well done, but too late to save a satisfactory result. No crisis - a local painter will do a good job next winter.

(https://i.postimg.cc/65c9Gq2B/Vinter-22-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BX8WrqBz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FsNrR3KP/Vinter-22-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgDVDtyn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0ftRqdf/Vinter-22-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9r8cZbC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/90jWyqYQ/Vinter-22-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDPVL0Ff)

 [drool]

Very nice.

How does it wear?

Well, it's the axle hole in the swingarm that wears most. The axle is steel, so it holds up better.

Bravo [clap]

You paint better than me ;D [thumbsup]

NEW LOCKS and SOME CARBON

I ride a lot and often long rides, sometimes far from people, cold and maybe wet. My bike lives outside and rain gets in... also to destroy any remaining ignition lock smoothness which I fear will end with half a key in my hand on top of a cold and isolated mountain. Previously Ducati sold just the ignition lock with new keys, but now it's only the full set - at, of course, twice the price. It's a great feeling though. Easy enough to replace. Moving the red key chip from old to new red key (that option saved me a new cluster?) Procedure described well in the workshop manual. Done. Well - the seat lock remains.

I painted my carbon covers three four years ago. Great example of how bad a paint job soon becomes without proper prep. Aftermarket parts for this bike isn't as easy to find as in the Monster modification glory days. Now, it's heated grips and communication packages...  I found my carbon here and there, higher prices and multiple shipping and customs fees. Another ten years down the road and I won't find anything. Maybe not even OEM. By then maybe I won't be able to find myself. Oh well.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SxjLgwkn/20220507-133436.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zRJQX6v)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3x6XVnxn/20220507-125944.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kX0Djpv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KYMP2BKF/20220507-140143.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXm2LX7t)

Nice work. [thumbsup]

That seat also looks great.

Thanks  [thumbsup]

I think it looks a little puffy, but it's perfect for my 'arse' and comfortable (enough) for very long rides. It also gives me more space to the pegs and I sit a little further forward.

10mm sideways play on the sprocket   :o

Wandering cush drives? No. The tabs are gone, but still ok.

Turns out the 170,000km superlite carrier is really worn. New JT installed. All good  [thumbsup]


Scary worn and tons of play. No wonder there was movement...
https://youtu.be/YqgCaEAjp8s


Signs of a little contact
(https://i.postimg.cc/nct3pbL6/20220522-134935.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCZH41PX)


Tabs gone?
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zZ4R7bS/20220522-134944.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pmnKxX7G)


Normal play on the cush drives
(https://i.postimg.cc/htDMQLTs/20220522-135116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfYVH7CQ)


Always a nice feeling when a job is well done
(https://i.postimg.cc/ncY0LRjM/20220522-153041.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHtk7jj1)

 [thumbsup]

Bike has been worked on, but it shouldn't be related. Things have been taken apart, so of course anything is possible...

Fast idle lever moves freely. Throttle cam slams shut. Throttle tube moves freely.

Idle is a couple of hundred revs higher, but the slow rev reduction is worse. Engine braking has become slow and progressive.

Where do I look?

https://youtu.be/qN8E6cBrrcw

Since the mehanical stuff like cables, throttle, etc are good then it could be an air leak. Be good to check the intake manifolds for leaks. I've heard of people forgetting to re-fit the idle synch port bolts which could be missing. Something may not be seated fully with the intake manifold or throttle bodies.

 [thumbsup]

Where are those bolts?

You know the ones on the inlet manifolds that the manometer fittings screw into?

Could be a split in one of the manifold rubbers or not seated air tight.

Drop the idle to where it belongs.

Nope, but how many can there be.... I'll have a look.

I'll check those too. Do I remember a DIY check ..... spraying starting fluid around the area and listen for fluctuating revs?

You reckon someone's adjusted it incorrectly DP?

Good idea to check for leaks.

When the engine gets warm, the idle settles at ~1,500, but it takes time to fall from 2,500/3,000. I used to be able to control engine braking, but now there's a delay.

I do have a DIY old school idle control, but have never used it. I will check it.

The old school idle stop screw isn't active.

Both synch port bolts are there. So are the air bleeds.

No loose attachments or visible damage to the intake rubbers.

I sprayed what I thought was starting fluid on the area with the engine running. It wasn't starting fluid - it was "One shot" carb/intake cleaner. No reaction.

What work was done to the bike?

IIRC, high idle will cause a slow drop, at least it does on a carby. Try to get the idle down around 1100, where it belongs, and go from there.Carb cleaner is a better choice than starting fluid.  [thumbsup] If it didn't react, you don't have a leak in the area you sprayed.

Cylinder and pistons. Complete top end service - which includes parts removal.

It was dyno tested. Don't know, but assume adjusted.

Maybe trim was adjusted...

I'll ask the work shop in a few days.


I don't know how to adjust idle. ECU?  Again; I'll ask the work shop what they did

I'm pretty sure that the idle speed is adjusted with the air bleeds, but I'm not a fuelie guy.

There may be a stop screw. Check with the shop.

Check the injector seals too.  Also could be slightly leaking injectors or the throttle plate not coming to it's proper position due to dirt.

How many turns out are the TB air screws?

Yeah, there can be a line showing a ridge of dirt build up.

Shot in the dark:
How long since TPS reset?

Worth doing all that stuff after a rebuild.

There is a stop screw VERY well hidden between the two body halves. LT Snyder describes the diagnostic software in a chapter about trim - it has a box for idle speed, but without a stepper motor I don't understand how the ECU can regulate idle speed.... maybe with fuel?  Again; the shop will hopefully tell me what they did / didn't do / forgot.

... aaand we have the air bleeds.




I checked that they are well mounted. Just a tiny bit of wiggle - as expected from items with ok seals. They could still be leaking, so I'll keep them on the list for a day when I have time and courage to dig my way to them ...  Throttle butterflies, or rather the intake where they operate, were cleaned not so long ago and they slam shut, but will put them on the list too ...



Don't know. I'll check with the shop before I decide if they might need adjustments.



Ages. Recently. Shop will know. Work Shop manual states that it must be reset after a replacement (means no need unless...?) Maybe if someone knocked it out of place or if wires/connectors are up for renewal ...

Which model is it?

Has it changed after recent work?

If it doesn't have a stepper motor then the air bleeds control the idle speed.  Wind them in to lower the idle.  That will most likely help with the slow return to idle too.

Changing the air bleed setting will change the idle mixture, so it's a two step process.

Changing the ignition advance in the idle map is another way to change how they return to idle, but that's a more advanced step and not something that changes.

The shop is closed another two weeks.


Similar weather and similar engine temperature:

It no longer fluctuate to 2,500 revs. Now only to 2,000 and maybe a little less often.

After reving it, it slowly'ish settles at 2,000 and after another two three second to 1,500. So, the reduced engine breaking is still a problem.

I checked the air bleeds today. They were all the way in. Tried one full turn out (yes, a 360) = nothing. Another half turn = nothing. Another full turn = nothing. All the way in = nothing.  Maybe, just maybe, a little crisp'er throttle response with the bleeds out (MAYBE).

I'll throw in another factor.... not at all scientific, but I get the impression that it gets warmer during city riding. Maybe 5-10 degrees C. I'm curious to hear what the shop might have changed, if anything. Maybe something in the ECU fuel/spark maps.... to control the bike's temperament a little... 

Any news?

https://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com/2019/07/multistrada-1000-not-idling-ecu-based.html?m=1

Longish but fix at end might interest.

Hopefully this coming week.



Well... I don't have a stepper, so ......

You are courius if shop altered ignition map, you said.

Shop replied and suspect TPS - at least as a primary suspect.

I had the TPS checked and reset twice. 2.5 (mV?) both times. So, it's not the TPS.

The vertical cylinder's plug is showing signs of lean running. The copper spacer (to lift the plug off the piston) is squashed and maybe there was false air sucked in. You can see that the threads are dry and clean. I don't know if that's possible, but the signs are clear. The other major sign is that the 'tip' from inside the ceramic is no longer a tip. It's gone / reduced down to the level of the ceramic.

The horizontal cylinder's plug is more or less normal.

VERTICAL
(https://i.postimg.cc/xT4NL7pG/Plugg-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNw0BPBq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/254qR5kT/Plugg-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ty32nfWW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1zxgjFQf/Plugg-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G4QhBH9C)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZJG9VjF/Plugg-7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xr3Y7wjL)


HORIZONTAL
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDXZQymD/Plugg-hor.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7KgwK8L)

How many miles on those plugs?

Shit!  How's compression on that cylinder? I wonder if an air leak has melted it away (or runaway ignition timing issue). Yet the side electrode appears dark. If ignition advance got away it would be white along its length well past the half way mark (unless oil has since stained it dark).

Howie to the courtesy phone!

Ummm....wow!

For sure you want to start with a compression test.  If compression is good enough, then injector volume and pattern.  I do think koko's thoughts on the air leak is probably it.  I don't like the looks of the copper "spacer", could be the problem. 

I din't know. They were probaly replaced this summer = 5,000 mies. Last summer.... ~15,000




Compression was good, but that was without the squashed copper spacer issue (during the test procedure)


 

New plugs and new spacers yesterday, so I'll check in a few days. The idle is still too high (especially between 60-80 degrees C)(~140-180F).

The fuel map was done (or maybe just confirmed) after the last work in July. Good A/F ratio all along the range. That Dyno work also showed improved peak power and beautiful curves all along the rev range. Even so, I can't reach the top speed I used to. Missing almost 15mph.

Something is not quite right.

2,5 degrees, 423 mV.

Is the ignition map also a custom map?

I don't know. I assume not, since I was never told it is.

I've been around a while, and have never seen a center electrode completely disappear on a 4 stroke, They'd partially dissapear on 2 srokes, and the manufacturers came out with electrodes that would stand the gaff.

Something is going on, and I have no clue as to what it is.

Same here, worn down yes, but completely gone, never.

... I wonder if a fuel map, functioning well on the Dyno, can get digitally lost (forgot to press ENTER kind of thing) and be automatically/accidently replaced by ECU stock info. It could explain a lot.... also the poor performance/top speed.

In that case the worst plug might have become THAT bad because of the spacer leakage, but would have shown clear signs of lean running anyway - like the other plug.

The shop usually steps up in cases like this. Because of geography it won't be easy to get anything done before next July. I will be able to check the plugs and establish if the spacer was the main cause for the destruction of the plug tip.

Just the positive electrode gone and the rest of the plug intact is new to me too.  Unbelievable that plug was able to fire.

(https://honda-tech.com/forums/attachments/engine-management-tuning-124/473597d1501528094-spark-plug-reading-pictures-densosparkplugchart.jpg)

Overheating?
Too lean mixture due to
1. squashed spacer
2. map too lean for that cyl, offset map mishap
?

Vertical (where the heat was most evident)
It looks hot.
1,000-1,500 km

(https://i.postimg.cc/T2ng6jYY/20220921-123555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDHc7VVp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DzDL2BXm/20220921-123639.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcYtj3VG)


Horizontal
(also hot)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wM5mQzbs/20220921-124125.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKtCj2DX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kX98XVBN/20220921-124140.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rWrVyGr)

 [popcorn]

Leak down test + sensors diagnostics coming up, but first suspension work and snow shoveling  [bacon]

Looking forward to seeing the diagnostics results. [thumbsup]

White plugs with tiny black spots or just white?

The plug diagnostics might not be worth much after just 1,000 - 1,500 km.

TPS still ok. The only two/three other engine sensors (old tech) ambient temp, barometric pressure and engine temp were functioning well (BTW: for those who ever wondered... the dash temp from the sump reads equal to the engine temp from the head)

Leak down test done yesterday:
cold test good 15 - 20% vertical, but ~70%  :o on the horizontal. (Don't get so excited just yet)
Warm up to 120 degrees Celsius..... just over 100 degrees there's smoke gushing out of the air box  :o :o  Ok, so it was actually steam. We got rid of most of it (and later drained the oil). The air box was full of water from the two wet autumn months (when I didn't ride at all) and water came into the horizontal intake - maybe causing rust here and there.
Warm test good on both cylinders.


I'm glad that no serious and expensive damages were found, but I expect the bike to still under-perform. I won't know until spring. The only thing I have 'fixed' is the squashed plug washer and it's hard to know if that was the only thing wrong. What I don't like is that I'm now without a clue about what's next...

Injectors? We have very clean fuel here, so ..... (230,000 km old)
False air tested with Kent One Shot made for that purpose (and cleaning intake parts/ports)
Fuel filter? (150,000 km old)
The ECU map is good (if it was good on the Dyno it can't change by itself)
Coils? (230,000 km old)

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx84Xp87/Leak-down-test-2023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPbJqJmt)

My manual for my MTS doesn't mention fuel filter change (!) but 150 000 it is overdue.
Despite clean fuel, 230 000 on injectors is. also overdue I guess.

So, filter (and eventually injectors) makes it a little lean when no throttle and causing
engine to take more time to get to idle. Just guessing here... [roll]

Change the filter first.

 [thumbsup] thanks!

I've been waiting for suspension parts about six months  [bang] One box without MY parts, one box with wrong parts, another box with wrong parts and finally correct parts a weel ago - nicely spread out over six months.

The fork is now smooth as silk - new oil and improved shim stack. Shock normal service plus seal head repair kit and a new rebound adjuster screw. Both items have performed well ~70-90,000 km.

The height adjuster rod was a bit sloppy, so I ordered the US made rod from MotoWheels. Available in red anodized only (horrible color on a red bike). Nice and tight.

Meaty new pads. My preferred hot sinter Brembo - poor performance when cold and/or wet, but fantastic when hot.

Finally replaced the H4 generic lousy bulb I had to install last summer in Italy. The upgrade bulb is really good.


(https://i.postimg.cc/vHjsJp2x/20230702-184242.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ykFt9rH7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6qrMM4Ph/20230702-184236.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZ0R13w7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RVTPffKS/20230702-183535.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1ffc18v2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4Nw5nGRn/20230702-183456.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpGFDTJ0)

Next is a new Grip Puppy, clean air filter, lube electrical contacts, polish exhaust, fine tune the suspension and two new injectors (in the other Tech thread, about my strange flucyuating idle speed and lack of engine braking).

It's a little too close to the Alps & Italy tour, but my (probably original) starter said good night on Friday. (The diagnosis is that the fuel pump works, the electronics work, the solenoid says click and the starter doesn't react with 12 directly on the lug.)(good diagnosis?) Ordered an aftermarket item which should be here on Wednesday. No available slots in the workshops this time of year, so I'm going to add another skill to my resume - replacing a starter on a Ducati.  :o

This is strange....

The fluctuating idle speed is now stable at ~1,500 when cold and ~1,200 when warm. I didn't notice poor engine braking. Will double check it.

Maybe the water in the inlet ports did something to the injectors? To the filter? Not usual to fix a bike with water, but ....

I'll replace the injectors soon.

Back in the day we used to sprinkle a little water into the intake to remove carbon deposits from the combustion chamber.

You can paint over anodizing. That height adjuster would look great in black.!

I concur with your diagnosis.

I'm old enough to claim participation in such a method  [beer]

Did you replace the filter?

No.

I remember seeing the carbon hit the wall when we did that.

 [thumbsup]

(Howie: I will get the filter replaced)(Just a little difficult working in between rain showers outside, so I prioritize)

New injectors today  [thumbsup] The air filter box usually puts up a fight - both off and on, but not today. The old injectors themselves took a little pulling to remove, but the new were easy to slide in with a little silicone spray. Even the make the beast with two backsing electrical connectors went off easily - no springs flying off.

(https://i.postimg.cc/8PGswcg4/20230703-135024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzh8w8mR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FKSQ2bjL/20230703-135040.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJ75RZp1)

 [thumbsup]

Anyone have experience replacing the starter? Is the gasket usually toast or can it be used again? The workshop manual says "inspect for wear and replace if necessary".

No help here.

Koko knows.

Chances are the gasket would be good.  To me "chances"  means you need it to finish the job.  Ducati Omaha says one pack (two gaskets) is $7.98.  What would cost you with shipping andtaxes?  No idea.  I could by them and mail them to you if neccessary.  I think it woukd also be easy enough to make.

If it's the old style gasket it can be helped with three bond/sealant after cleaning on the exposed side. Thats if it is stuck to the case and not the starter. Removing from the starter may ruin it. The new gaskets are metallic to stop them insulating the earth through the starter body! No wonder we put extra earth cables on them! Any three bond/sealant makes it worse. So using a paper gasket may mean adding another earth cable to the bolt that goes through the cases and into the starter motor body. So greasing and locktighting that bolt doesn't help the earth point. If you cant retrofit the metallic gasget, try a cable from the frame battery earth point to the timing case bolt that holds the starter.

COOL  8)

It works!

Just a short question first; is it normal that the gear selector output shaft is a little loose? I thought I saw it wiggle a little when I put the side cover back on.

Other than that, I'm really pleased that it went well AND that it started so eagerly. One casing hole threads stripped. I hope the neighbouring bolts will do the job. Rain today so I haven't tested if the cover is oil tight.

BTW there was no gasket between casing and starter. Just some liquid gasket residue.

Clearing the way
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFVx6R39/20230706-121345.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0qM10Lm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PxSyqgKM/20230706-121422.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YFL7khH)

Soon....
(https://i.postimg.cc/nVwTftXF/20230706-135240.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14wDD202)

Avoiding short circuits
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kj4N30Hh/20230706-121451.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BP9DdB3m)

New stuff (aftermarket $160 vs 450 OEM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tmMsm0t/20230706-121516.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3YwTzD5)

Today's co-mechanic and moral support
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLB7F68j/20230706-162321.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJ4CddDs)

Which brand starter? I've been told that the Arrowhead brand is often used by workshops here. I've only used one in an MTS as I usually have them rebuilt. I see the gasket in the pic, looks like the metallic one. [thumbsup]. The outer case supports the gear lever shaft. How much play with case fitted?
Cute dog.

https://www.carpimoto.it/en-NO/Bike_Ducati_Monster-S2R-800/36803_27040011A-Engine-Starter-for-Ducati-engines-listed.htm

No play with the cover fitted.

It's a really long shaft. It'll be fine.

"There is reason to believe power is restored"  :-X

Still issues with the idle speed, but not much. The workshop suggest the new injectors don't work perfectly with the map created with/for the old ones. We'll try to correct that on the Dyno later in July. At the same time we'll look into false air and the strange spark plug.

GENERATOR

New parts in a steady pace - it's normal, but this one is three working days before my tour of the Alps and Italy. Stressful.

The generator decided that it has done enough. Almost 180,000km. Measuring over the three yellow wires WITH wires connected gives results ~20V lower than when the wires are disconnected (I believe this is correct). Anyhow; last spring it was diagnosed this way when I ended up replacing the regulator. The result was 25V~ at idle and 40V~ at 3,000 rpm. Good enough.

Today 10V~ [thumbsdown]  I discovered this because the battery lost it's charge while riding.

Ordered a new stator today. Maybe it's here Thursday. Maybe Friday. Just about soon enough  [Dolph]

Well make the beast with two backs.  That's a bit exciting so close to D-Day.....

It'll be fine. ;D

I think so too. I now know that I can do the job, so it's mostly about getting the part in time.

DHL flight delayed from Milan. make the beast with two backs. Ok - let me pick it up at the airport/in warehouse/customs clearance office? Anywhere that doesn't gamble with the driver's ambitions for this Friday? That's all right, Sir.

So, I picked it up at 11.30. Was at my friend's house at 13 and all included, finished at 16. Charging is as it should be.

Interesting thing:
it runs colder - ~10-15 degrees C. Maybe the better voltage improves/restores what the ECU really wants to do? It's having it's very own day on the Dyno Tuesday, We'll know more then. Workshop thinks the map is adjusted to get ok performance with the old injectors. Now, with new injectors AND proper electricity, it needs to be "reset".

 [Dolph]

Dyno day today 8)

The old injectors randomly under-delivered 20, 30 + % which last year's map compensated for. With the new injectors from CA Cycleworks (even paired for perfection) it needed a new Dyno map. Today it got that. Steady, predictable and correct fuel delivery has to be good things [Dolph] The performance is back, anyway (it was already better, but now it's completely restored).

500km of Autobahn to test it tomorrow  8) 8) 8)

 [thumbsup]

Excellent.  [thumbsup]
People don't realise how much injector efficiency varies which explains why many "canned" maps don't seem to work very well. The dyno is important in that regard.

Good to hear!

He also found leaking air through the spark plug washers.

Works really well now. More testing tomorrow. Now, drinks.

I told you it would be fine. :P

20 - 30% fuel over delivery with the new injectors. The old map compensated for the old injectors' poor performance. Running very rich, but now remapped and fine.

I have a very noticeable stumble on the first few degrees of throttle opening. I hate myself for not turning around and have them fix it while I was there/close. I thought it would be ok when warm, but it didn't change. When I'm on the Autobahn I don't usually think about turning around...

Otheerwise it's much better [thumbsup]

Well, after the July happiness things went from good(ish) to worse.

More about the "Revs falling slowly, uneven idle" Edited, so that thread is now merged into the long one (Keeping my... )



 ... and a compression test

https://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=79728.0

Compression test:

When we had to accept that the TPS and ECU faults were not the only issues we have to go back/sideways into the mechanical stuff again. I think it might be a specific mix of eletronic and mechanical issues that, in certain rev/load areas, make a mess of things. The engine guy needs more info and wants a compression test.

Remember also that this engine was drowned last fall, while I was hospitalized, with rain/snow filling my air box, into the intake and ended up in the oil. It's not impossible that it did harm to parts. I still run old Pistal pistons (yes, I will repalce them next year).

(https://i.postimg.cc/cHNy8jxw/20230926-110917.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVwh0Ttg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ghp0YvC7/20230926-111234.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fk1gQtkm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sX9FPcx8/20230926-111559.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcxPdbQ4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnTGwdyq/20230926-112026.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PpRVxNyG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PfysP2Bv/20230926_114952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0WDQFYJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vT3pkZWt/20230926_115211.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZZHTvNh)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWJnlWKAkRE

As long as it's not caused by valve clearance/valve/valve seat issues, then it might be time for that high compression, big bore kit. There might be cylinder bore "ovality" too. Sometimes the pistons ring grooves peen over holding the rings inwards and stopping the rings from sealing. Saw this recently on a high mileage, high compression M750 and also an SB6. The M750 big end was giving way and the rings had to do the job of stabilizing the piston and conrod. It didnt like it! This caused excessive piston blow by. The symptom was high oil vapour from the crankcase breather, low compression and big end noise. On the SB6 the cause was bad fuel contamination of the oil and high revs. The symptom was smokey exhaust when hot.

New cylinders two years ago (big bore, 88 to 90). New pistons one year ago, but burned and were replaced by my old and worn pistons (Pistal HC). Will replace them soon.

I would expect some compression loss, but have no idea how much it takes to mess up the running like mine is.

Anyone know how different the results might be, testing with open throttle? Most online DIY advice is to use WOT, but the Workshop Manual doesn't mention it. Anyway, I didn't know, so closed throttle during my tests. Significant?

Yes...significantly different. Compression test with WOT, otherwise there's nothing to compress.

Thanks, I will try again. I thought maybe it would 'inhale' through the butterflies which are always a little open... or through the exhaust valves for that matter. Not a lot of flow going on at the speed we're using here?

 :) significantly higher or lower?

You should see significantly higher numbers.

I reckon in the 180 + psi range. WOT and hot motor. Keep cranking until the needle stops.

Also mild cams higher numbers, hot cams lower numbers.

Yes, true.  [thumbsup]

Ok - new test, proper warm engine and WOT.

(I tried with the rubber cone and besides an attempt to spit it out, it was ok. Would like to have had three hands, but ok)

Same result on both. Lower.

Biggelaar is happy to more or less rule out big mechanical problems. Switch coils is next. One exhaust was cold when I let it run on one cylinder. If the other is cold after a switch, we just might be closer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/hjM7XQ4N/20230927-135230.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYYs7X1V)

The coil switch didn't make any difference. Rear cylinder, measured infrared on the exhaust pipes, is half the heat of the front. This is at 2-2,500 revs, idle lever pulled, which sounds like it makes the bike go on one and a half cylinder.

I feel a little lost, but will soon enough move down the list.

 [Dolph]

This sounds exactly like what happened when I got the cam belt on one tooth wrong. I don't remember in which direction , but one way the piston and valves will hit, in the other direction the motor will run, but sluggish and with a cold(ish)  header on the affected cylinder.
In my case it was on the m900 with Veetwo cams, but I assume it would / could be the same on an 800 with st2(?) cams.

^^

hmm... that's interesting because at this point I'm curious about / leaning towards a mix of several small things and a-tooth-off could fall into that category. However, that kind of bad running wouldn't become worse over time? Another "however" is that it ran smoothly'ish going into this summer's Dyno work and quite poorly when leaving the workshop after excellent test results.

It's really difficult to ignore the very clear difference between JUST before and JUST after the Dyno work.

It became better after an ECU adjustment, but still far from good.

Either a mix of several small things not discovered during tuning OR that one big thing we still haven't found / thought about.

Biggelaar wants lamda measurements to see what his adjustments did. Maybe they were correct, but not sufficient....

I'm going to see if I can clean the intake, around the butterflies. The autumn water ingress could easily do nasty things....


I'm not very optimistic about this riding season, but will keep working towards a great result. [thumbsup]

Well, if it has changed without the belts beeing off, then a "tooth off" situation is not very likely .... but the symptoms are really VERY similiar: sluggish, cold heaer, running lime "on a cylinder and half ...". Maybe a quick check of the cam timing on that cylinder just to make sure nothing has worked lose.

Thanks - work in progress.

Just a shot in the dark really, maybe the inlet should be cleaned? They have been left untouched for all of the 240.000km and the place they get most dirty is where the butterflies usually are - I now know that at least 90% of my riding is very close to 15 degrees. This theory corresponds well with the dirt I could see. I used brake cleaner, WD40 and carb cleaner

It helped!

Not perfect, but substantially better. Now it's a little annoying where it yesterday was difficult to ride (at least in town).

Since I now don't have any main suspects, I try to focus on how many and which of the small things it can be. Dirty inlet was one. Still is actually. I'm buying another spray can of carb cleaner - maybe there is more nastinesses in the valve area... Of course fuel filter is still on the list. Both because Howie suggested it and because I really can't NOT try a new filter.

 [thumbsup]

What type of Pistal pistons are you using on this big bore modification?

I've used two different types. The first pair was drop in 90mm - can't remember if they had a specific name. The next two were specific for 750 Laguna F1. The most recent, which burned themselves/itself was another "no specific name".

The dome on the 750 pairs had to be machined down, or rather inward, to keep them from exploding by high compression. The base gaskets/spacers were a couple of mm different.

After all, not quite plug & play, but in the end VERY satisfying.

Plans?

I am thinking of going the same path as what you 've done so far: I will start with a big bore kit and then proceed with a mild head porting (just to keep it more durable). Any suggestions are more than welcome!!!

I think I said; if I had to do it again, I wouldn't  [cheeky]

The pistons are just one of a few components necessary to make it sing, roar and fly. The Ducati Performance ECU (or similar flashing/tuning), open airbox and a nice exhaust is by itself improving the performance by 2-3 bhp and 8-10 (?) Nm.

To reach the next level AND protect it against premature failure, money is required. More money than sensible. Balance crankshaft, better rods, pistons, larger intake valves, port, polish & other headwork. Doing just a few will restrict the power gains.

The (almost) full race tune package is INCREDIBLY fun, but it drains your wallet. Especially if you ride a lot, and hard.

Everyone deserves to be a little crazy, but I think that a medium effort is more or less a waste of money. Then it's better to do just the first level and maybe choose brakes and/or suspension instead.

Thank you stopintime!

When I said, I'm in the same path as you are, that meant craziness included  ;D
This is the current modification status of the bike: https://www.instagram.com/p/CwvFcIzquon (https://www.instagram.com/p/CwvFcIzquon)

That being said, I am willing to do it step by step so I can feel the difference of each mod: big bore kit first and then the cylinder head job.

I know that swapping to a 1000DS engine is a more sensible choice but cost wise it will be near as to modding the 800. Whatever engine I manage to get it will definitely need an overhaul plus upgrading whereas for the 800, I am the first owner, it has low milage (23K km) and had a lot of TLC since new - apart for some trackdays and spirited rides  [evil]  ;D

...looking at this bike you can tell that there is a lack of rationality!

Howie: I replaced the fuel filter. No difference.

Nate: Not long ago you answered mine(or someone else's) question about the fuel flange "IN" and "OUT" markings. One of my lines is marked M and is currently on the "OUT" hole. IIRC the bike started and ran when I mounted my fuel tank recently (after fitting new filter and low fuel light thermistor) with that mounting.

Not necessarily related:
Today I wanted to ride a little, to see if I believe the bike will run to the Netherlands for it's fix. Started fine, so I killed it after two seconds. Did some light after winter cleaning - brakes, chain, tires, wind screen, lights and seat. Very little water, but... Tried to start it again, but now it wouldn't fire. Fuel ok, prime ok, battery at 12,6 volts. After about ten attempts battery at 12 volts and it doesn't turn.

It's raining. Snow during the night. I plan to leave in ten days.   [Dolph]

The M is for mandare.  The other line should be marked R. You have it connected correctly.

Yep, mandata and riturno. Mandate (delivery) and Return. Whats the voltage drop when cranking? Just in case it's too low for the ECU to think. Does the fuel pump prime noise sound normal or "bubbly", agitated or tired?
I had what might have been an air lock on an M1100 the other day after refitting the fuel lines. With a freshly charged battery but low fuel level I had to try a few times. It was like bleeding an air lock in a radiator. The pump made a bubbly noise when priming. I removed the lines a couple of times between attempts to start. It's happened before on other bikes now that I think about it.

Check the plugs aren't wet.

Probably not the cause since yours started once, but,
last year mine didn't start after winter rest without a gallon of fresh fuel.
Petrol degradation people mentioned seems real to me.

Priming sound is ok.

Spark ok on both plugs.

One plug dry (rear, which is the troublesome cylinder). Horisontal "damp"(?)

Fuel pressure in the lines.

13.3 volt after tonights charge. Around 11 while cranking. 12.1 after several attempts - at which point it wasn't very willing to turn over.

One Shot spray made it run for a few seconds (5-10?). Unknown on which cylinder, but when I gave it some throttle it backfired up from the rear cylinder and stopped.

To me, the weird thing is that it fired and ran yesterday, but then wouldn't an hour later or today. Fuse box fuses ok. Stand alone fuse/relay for injectors? Couldn't see fuel spray under the air filter box - should I be able to see it there or do I have to remove them to see any spray directly?

 Haven't checked the whole thread, but maybe swap injectors between the cylinders and see if the problem follows the injectors?

That suggestion has merit.

What about testing for spark?

Worth sonically cleaning injectors that sit.  A mate who works at a local bike shop said that they occasionally find blocked and gummed up injectors. Some of the modern fuel additives gum up the injector holes in bikes that sit for months. This is more applicable to down here where the fuel  is the poorest quality among OECD countries.

Thanks

I have spark.

Ethanol free fuel only.

The mysterious thing here is that it started and ran as normal a couple of months ago when I mounted the tank with new thermistor and filter. Two days ago it started and ran well - although not for long since I soon killed it (neighbour consideration)

All the electrical stuff I have been able to test now, spark being the most important, is ok.

It 'kind of' runs with One Shot, so lack of fuel is suspect number one. No?

Can I expect to see fuel spray in the intake when the air filter is removed? From the injectors if they are lifted out, but still connected?  If it's possible to see a failing injector I can swap or go back to my old ones.

Try starting the bike with a jump from a car battery.  Open cell voltage is a sign of battery state of charge, not health.  I suspect the computer might be shutting down due to voltage drop.  Yes, different bike, my DS 1000 would not start on a battery that would pass a load test for that reason.  New battery?  Fixed.

Ok  [thumbsup]

Damn! That worked a lot better.

So much more life in the starter and it started, but stopped after about 5 seconds.


Pressure in the fuel line at/over both injectors (big splash)

Stetoscope test. Couldn't hear the desired ticking. Maybe the bike has to run to hear that sound. Maybe the tool or my ears aren't good enough. I might try that test again later.

Injectors tested. In the bracket which holds them down, but pointing towards a rag. Horisontal cylinder ok. Vertical cylinder nothing - this has been the cylinder not firing under low throttle, so not a surprise.

Tried an old injector and it sprays well - even on low throttle.


I think I'm going to ignore that when the bike now runs on only one cylinder - today it's the vertical. Two days ago it was the horisontal.  [laugh]


So, this most recent problem was solved by using an extra battery to jump from - maybe also by better injection. I'll ride it when the rain stops.

My 1000 was dropping a cylinder intermittently.   After a lot of time on dyno the cause was the computer.  I'm not suggesting you need a computer, but diagnosis on a dyno might help.

Coming up in two weeks  [thumbsup]

 [popcorn]

Say G'Day to Juice for me  [thumbsup]

This is weird. Today mostly good, but weird...


No car battery jump today, but started pronto and (WAIT FOR IT) runs on both cylinders - on all throttle openings! Not clean. Not smooth. Not fast, but runs. Couple of hours ride - stable and nice.

I charged the battery until the green light came on (30 hours?). I can't remember it ever being green. 14 volts at 2.000 revs. Howie; should I keep a fresh battery on my wish list?

About the ECU... it's my original stock ECU in there now. Maybe I'll try the tuned old Ducati Performance ECU too.

At some point, my mechanic suggested me this product: https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/pro-line-gasoline-system-cleaner-p000062.html#5153 (https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/pro-line-gasoline-system-cleaner-p000062.html#5153)
Although I didn't have any running issues, after using the cleaner, the engine felt smoother and more willing at the lower revs...

Yes. 

Have tried cleaners. No change.

Heads cleaned. No damage. Valve seats lap'ed. Guides good.

Two tiny chips on one valve. Replaced.

Minor signs of up-down stripe wear. Will be replaced by criss-cross with the ball brush

Deep damage on one piston pin. Maybe to be expected after 240,000km. SOMETHING has to give?

New pistons in 8) 

That's it for day 1. More diagnostic work tomorrow.


(https://i.postimg.cc/mg0vQ9L0/20240409_160329.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyF2NVRj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fLjQWbh1/20240409_152713.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9ty0hCq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/J40vvxtf/20240409_160511.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2Vp0B4QG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DzRw40HZ/20240409_153913.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94thvmW5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9ctqVLL/20240409_154318.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKcpFFmd)


(https://i.postimg.cc/KcJC0wc7/20240409_160028.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhQCjCdh)

What compression ratio pistons.?

Don't know. Probably won't know. These are labelled "796 big bore 90mm". Their dome is lower and might give a softer combustion (so they say). Have been 11:1 so maybe the same...

Everything back together and today tuned.

WOW [Dolph]

Five fresh bhp despite higher squish (1.4 vs typical 1?). New injectors which I believe might have been the main issue with the stumbling and one-cylinder-running. Very tired pistons and valves gradually made things worse.

As always; surely this is a big TBC, but for now I'm satisfied [thumbsup]

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2GnpRhx/20240412-114834.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vD3XDJWX)

Excellent. You have extracted more power with each rebuild. Very impressive. [beer]

 [thumbsup]

Great!

Thanks guys [thumbsup]

I've become a tiny bit anxious... listening, feeling, looking. Hopefully it'll pass when this summer's speed picks up [evil]

Great news!
Which brand are the pistons and what are the numbers so far? Is there more tuning to come?

Pistal (this is the third pair since the first engine build at about 50,000km)

No tuning to increase power, but a little here and there to maintain smooth running.

Hmm... and a medium make the beast with two backs.
The new starter died. Couple of days ago a new starter sound developed. Slow flowing noise before it ran. Two instead of a half second. Yesterday no movement. Roll start easy. Got a used starter from my dealer. No threads in one of three holes. I'll get another.

Then a question.

What do think about this stator?

It ends a ride with 13.6 volts. Yesterday my return to home
 ride ended with 12.8 The only unusal thing, besides what you see, was the starter diagnosis.

Discussed further here :
https://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=79879.0

(https://i.postimg.cc/xCgX1xXG/20240713-151148.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDDy6RHd)

I've seen the discolouration of the windings before. Sometimes it's just about where the oil level sits in the case and sometimes it indicates burned windings with a loss of voltage output. I keep spare regulators for testing and check voltage output at various rpm. Of course the battery to regulator to alternator wiring is worth checking.
Anyway you know all this and I wish I could do some of the work you do.  [beer]

Howie is black belt in auto electrics so you're OK.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sgyHbhZM/Cafe-003.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/567mCjgJ)

Big day today  [Dolph]

Quarter million kilometer.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NLvGQM7N/199999_005.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9TfknW7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3rdBqZSS/199999_007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3YLyDdL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/K8zv7RvM/speed.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfkBc4mD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DwMfxn8Y/speedo_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsFHT0dh)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7YhnzL4C/20240927_143132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNrt54N9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NrqSM9s/1000001944.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ykFZ7tZR)

Bravo [clap]

So, after a few months with an annoying oil leak AND worrying that two out of three working starter bolts isn't enough to hold the starter for very long - time for repairs.

I wanted Time Sert but no shop wanted to do that. Expensive and not required.... Ok, the side cover bolts are just 13 Nm, so ok ok. Helicoil. Testing all holes resulted in six helicoil repairs. No oil leak.

The DMF experts helped a lot when my stator concerns were adressed (link to specific thread just a few post above). The new stator now looks exactly like the one I didn't like the look of in that thread. It works very well, so maybe it's not damaged.

I've had a few experiences with parts lasting much longer than expected. Or longer than the internet said they would.

200,000 km RR 8)

OEM stearing head ball bearings as long lived as All Balls Tapered needle bearings. "Measured" twice.

Throttle wire ok.


Changing from 15T to 14T front sprocket will destroy the chain slider protective shoe in short time, "they" said. Almost all of my 250,000 km with a 14T. The ridge that the rollers roll on is reduced, but still there. The shoulders that the side plates are guided by, are only partially destroyed. Replaced anyway [thumbsup]

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tw7dmfw2/20241023_153916.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhKHHfyW)

The sky is blue, or so 'they' say...

but what is blue, and who the make the beast with two backs are 'they'?