Ducati Monster Forum

I'm wondering if my alternator or battery is going bad... It's a 2009 696

Just 2 days ago, I had fired it up and saw that it was maintaining 13.6-13.8 VDC while idling fully warmed up.

I went today to remove the Ducati Race ECU, switched it back to the stock ECU and paper air filter. I put everything back together, and when it fired up, battery voltage was 11.9 VDC! As it was warming up to 2-3 bars, idling 1300 RPM, the voltage was 11.6 VDC and dropping. I saw it go as low as 11.1 VDC.

Any idea if this is the alternator, regulator, or battery? It's the original Yusa YT12B-BS from 2011. I went over the procedure I did to swap the parts, and can't think of a reason why I'd knock something off/loose that would cause this. Or if the stock ECU is somehow not working right with the regulator?

Before I throw money on a new battery, I figured I'd ask. If it does end up being a new battery is needed, what do you all normally do with old motorcycle batteries? Turn them into the nearest Autozone/drop-off since there's no core charge/return?

Mate that battery is way older than it should be, you are quite lucky to have gotten an extra 6 years out of it. I'd replace that first and see if that clears the issue.

good luck

11 year old battery?  I'll pass on my usual charge and load test rant.  Amazing the bike started and ran.  New battery, then check the charging system.

Serious new battery time.

If you are in America, most any auto parts store or oil change/mechanic shop will take your battery... they have to by law.

FWIW, my '13 796 had the same problems, including complete cut-outs trying to start... a new battery fixed all that.  That is not to say improving the starter wiring wouldn't be a bonus...

Well that is good news if everyone feels it is the battery. I just have to lift that fuel tank again to get access to it.

What's the consensus on Shorai's Lithium batteries? Looks like it has more cold cranking amps and twice the capacity (20 A-h vs 10 A-h). Just curious if anyone has heard of long-term issues with the stock alternator/regulator? I'd have to get a Lithium-compatible Tender of course.

I’ve only used anti-gravity lithium batteries. I’ve had one for 3years now. It stays on a tender if not running the bike weekly. I’m happy with its performance.

I really like the Shorai batteries, but a genuine Yuasa AGM battery lasted that long at half the price. If you're on a weight loss trip go with the Shorai or equivalent quality Lithium Iron battery and don't skimp. Check the regulator voltage output to the battery once the battery is replaced by scrolling through the dash function. There is a chance that a bad regulator finished off your trusty old battery. You will need a special charger with a Ducati compatible loom connector if you go with a Shorai or similar battery. The correct connector will save you having to run a pig tail from the battery terminals.

I have an oem style Yuasa AGM in my 1100Evo and run the charger through the loom plug under the seat, so no battery pig tail. The oem Ducati charger available charges at 14-14.5 V and maintains at 13-13.5V. It's simple but it works well.

Yep, that's how I was able to keep that original Yuasa. The dealer installed a Tender cord (SAE connector) but used too short of a wire so it would get really soft from the engine heat. I wired in a much longer one that gets routed under the seat and used that for 11+ years with a Battery Tender. I see that I need a Li-Iron compatible Tender if I want to go the Lithium route.

I hear I should go with a MOSFET Lithium-compatible regulator as well. Any good plug and play recommendations?

If you feel you must spend extra money to replace a battery that worked just fine for 11 years with a fancy lithium one... :-\

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/ He offers a lithium compatible model, and I've had good luck with his products.

One thing I always noticed with the Yuasa was that it sometimes took forever to start the engine. It just didn't seem to have as much punch for cold starts. That's mainly the reason why I wanted to go with a fancy Lithium battery (higher CCA's, higher capacity, and the higher voltage).

It looks like they have the Hot Shot Lithium Compatible R/R.

Personally, I'd upgrade the starter cables and use an AGM. The lithium battery will be handcuffed by the stock cables, as was the AGM.

I would tend to agree.

While the new AGM battery solved my starting problems on my 796, the Real Answer is new cables.  AGM batteries are pretty idiot proof, and last a good while if properly tended/maintained.  I like throwing money at problems, particularly motorcycle problems, but I didn't waste the money on a lithium battery.  New cables are on the schedule for this year's Upgrade Project.

AGMs were the new hotness 20+ years ago. When they first came out they recommended different regulators to charge them properly. They required a different curve than standard flooded batteries.

But today, even the military is switching over to Lithiums in heavy-duty applications, so that had me wondering about going to Lithium as well. Plus I heard the OE R/R's on the 696 were prone to failure anyhow?

Personally I have only had regular batteries last 3-4yrs on my bike. Bike is ridden regularly, or kept on tender in off season (3-4 months) and stored in the shed that is not climate controlled. I have 45k miles on my 06 S2R and have replaced the battery a few times before trying the lighter lithium setup. I have also upgraded the rectifier to a ricks mosfet. 
How many years of service are you gettting out of the AGMs?

Some people say all Ducati regulators are prone to failure. The stator connector is definitely prone to failure

A Mosfet regulator is a worthwhile upgrade.

Heavier battery cables are a worthwhile upgrade.

I don't see the need to use a lithium battery based on the requirements of the bike, and the additional purchases necessary to maintain it. YMMV.

That's quite true.  I killed the AGM batteries in my XR650 every year until the guy at the parts counter asked me about my charger.  He sold me a charger that had a mode specifically for AGM batteries.... and I haven't had a problem since.  FWIW, I was using an older Battery Tender model, designed for lead acid.

The military doesn't care about overall cost... the best solution to any problem is to throw money at it.

Do you recall which Tender you had? The ones I had been using since 2006 all had 1 lead-acid mode that would work for AGM and Gel (AGM and Gel technically are still lead-acid).

The Battery Tender in LiFePO4 mode seems to float at 13.67 VDC (13.1-13.2 for the lead-acid mode). But after leaving my Shorai uncharged/unconnected overnight, it stays at 13.08 VDC versus the 12.6-12.8 with a lead-acid.

The military was against the switch to AGM for the longest time because of the higher price of AGM batteries, so overall cost is a huge consideration. AGM was touted as a wunderbattery over 20 years ago. It does last longer than flooded in hot environments, but I haven't switched to AGM on my cars/SUV because of the added cost and minimal lifespan benefit over flooded.

I'm mainly looking for more cranking power from the Lithium. The Yuasa AGM, even when new, seemed fairly weak when cold starting the 696.

It seems, to me anyway, that you've decided you need a lithium battery. That's fine, it's your money.

Buy your lithium battery and do the install without upgrading battery cables. Do some tests wrt voltage drop when cranking, recovery voltage...etc. Then upgrade the cables and repeat any tests you do. Let us know what you find.

If you can borrow a good AGM battery, install it before, and after the cable upgrade. Do some tests. Let us know what you find.

... and make sure (if you haven't already) to install a charging pigtail on the battery. Lot of work to access it on those bikes.

That's the only way I was able to nurse 11 years out of that Yuasa w/ a Battery Tender.

It was from the '90's... after I bought my CBR1000F.  I've since junked it.

Speaking of cables, that's something I did want to upgrade. Is the Motoelectric HICAP still a good bolt-on solution?

NO FHE.

His site indicates top quality components. I didn't see a lot else out there doing a quick search.

I wanted to get a load tester for the longest time, so decided to pick up a Battery Tender unit (looks the same as the Schumacher, and I heard the Cen-Tech at Harbor Freight is a similar design). The Yuasa from 2011 (or possibly earlier since the dealer wasn't too clear if they gave me a new battery or if it was the original from 2008/2009 on the new 696 that just sat in their show room) tested Weak (10V) under load, below the 200 CCA line.

Out of curiosity, I put the Shorai LFX18A under the same load test, and it was at the 11V mark and well within green for the 270 CCA.

I used the Yuasa at the trap shooting range for my trap launcher, and it seemed to work fine for the launcher mechanism. It's not a huge amount of load and the battery is only 8.4 lb, making it a HECK of a lot easier to carry around. I used to carry around an old Group 65 battery for that launcher and it weighed 50 lb. Then I ditched it for an old battery out of my 2017 Fusion which is a Group 90/T5 still weighing over 30 lb (but one of the smallest car batteries).

I got the Rick's Lithium MOSFET regulator and the Motolectric wiring kit. The Motoletric kit is well made for the most part but that starter positive wire was several inches too long and the positive battery terminal isn't the same as what they had on their website and guide. Needed some bending at times to work. That ground wire and starter positive wire barely fit under the plastic guide on the alternator side.

The Rick's regulator came with wires that were like 2 feet too long. Required a lot of creative bundling and zip-ties. Would be a challenge for those with the 1100 engine oil cooler to fit. The regulator wires weren't long enough to relocate the regulator but were too long IMHO.

I didn't even have time to fire it up to test it out. Shorai battery is way smaller than the Yuasa YT12 size, so required some foam padding (wasn't hard just required work).

I plan to swap out all of the halogen headlights for LEDs (cuts down on startup draw as well as overall draw, increased brightness, etc). I had been biding my time for LEDs to improve and it looks like the time is right with more and more 1:1 size LEDs without driver modules.

Finally got a chance to fire her up.

I'll honestly say, I saw zero difference between the stock wiring/Yuasa vs. the Motolectric thicc/phat wiring and Shorai Lithium. The Lithium Ion battery seems to hold voltage better after being loaded down, but that's about it.

The Rick's MOSFET Lithium regulator kept the voltage displaying at 13.5 VDC on the display, but my multimeter was showing about 0.3 VDC lower at the battery terminals, roughly 13.2 VDC.

I'd say maybe a bike with really worn out/corroded wires might see a benefit from the wiring upgrade but otherwise I don't see the benefit. It was rather a PITA to fit together and bend some of the terminals. Not 100% plug and play.

I reckon that's a bit stingy for a lithium reg.

Seems like it is low doesn't it? Rick's advertises a setpoint of 14 +/- 0.2 VDC

This was showing 13.5-13.6 on the instrument cluster, and about 0.3 V lower with my multimeter across the battery terminals.

What revs when measured? I'd want to see 14V at 3000 rpm.

It did go up at 3000 RPM, 13.7 or so on the display. I plan to do more testing today as Rick's recommended I just check the voltage at the stator.

Yes I was wondering about that. Considering how tight a voltage range Lith batteries need you want 14-14.3. Since they are in reality 13V batteries, they're getting low at 13V. I would be curious to see what readings you got with the oem reg. I would also ask Shorai what they think about running the oem reg.

Shorai claims the OEM rec/reg is fine, but that seems to be the case for a lot of LFP manufacturers. I asked them specifically about float voltage, and they said anything 13.1 VDC would be fine. I tested my Deltran Battery Tender Jr. to float it at 13.66 VDC and they said it was fine, but for max safety they recommended that I just charge it up infrequently versus leaving it on indefinitely like a normal lead-acid.

I measured the open circuit voltage at the terminals for a few weeks without the battery being connected. It would rest somewhere around 13.06-13.16 VDC.

I tend to agree with a periodic charge over an ongoing trickle. I think to leave a charger on maintenance requires a high quality, intelligent charger. I have a Tecmate Optimate Lithium charger and also an Optimate AGM, lead acid, Gel, etc version. They conduct diagnostics, monitoring and save functions automatically. Ive got the Shorai charger too (and two Ducati chargers among others). I agree with others here that cheap trickle chargers can kill batteries.

Would be an interesting exercise to see the readings with the oem reg. How's the wiring and connector from the alternator?

From experience the Battery Tenders are the only maintainers I'd trust leaving them on indefinitely on my lead-acid batteries. I've been buying and using them since 2006 and have them on each battery I don't use regularly. But LFP is a different animal altogether, and I know not to leave any of them constantly charged (whether it is a smartphone, tablet, etc...)

The wiring and connectors looked fine.

I had the OEM R/R working just before I had issues with the Yuasa. It was at 13.6 VDC idling, 3-bars on the temp gauge. But this was on the instrument cluster and not at the battery terminals.

I have a mate who leaves his car battery on tender literally for years (he works overseas). He never had a problem, but I can't do that for more than a night once or twice each week. I clearly have trust issues. ;D

For lead-acid, I use the Battery Tender and leave them on whenever I am not operating the vehicle. I've had batteries hooked up for years. The Battery Tender brand never failed me.

For Lithium, I'm using the Battery Tender Jr in LFP mode but I am hesitant to leave it on indefinitely.

I just read the Optimate manual and it says it floats at 13.6 VDC and then rests for 30 minutes. Every charger I've used for Lead-Acid that does that, has resulted in boiling over the lead-acid battery or causing it to fail. I am not saying Optimate will cause the Lithium batteries to fail, but I've had bad experiences with lead-acid chargers/maintainers that do that. The Tender for lead-acid will float at 13.2 VDC at 50mA-150mA indefinitely which seems to fine for the lead-acid batteries.

Here's an update:

I measured 2.2 Ohms coil to coil to coil for the stator
During the initial cold start with the regulator disconnected, I measured roughly 17-18VAC across the stator coils at low idle (not touching the fast idle lever)
Once the RPMs kicked up to 2000-3000 RPM, I saw 41-42 VAC. I didn't rev it further.

I put everything back together, including re-organizing the 15 miles of wire that Rick's provides with their regulator, and saw 13.6 VDC from the instrument cluster but once I kicked up the RPMs to 3000-4000 RPM, I saw 14.1-14.2 VDC.

I didn't have an opportunity to put my multimeter across the terminals to see the actual reading while idling, I should have time tomorrow.

Did you check for voltage drop in the charging circuit?

From where to where?

From voltage regulator output to battery positive and battery negative to engine will give you total voltage drop for the system.  Since you did the cables I wouldn't worry about the negative side.  You should have less than .5 volts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0LjwQbUbg  is a how to for a car.  Since the car has an internal regulator, or, if new enough, controlled by the ECU he goes from alternator output to battery.

Back to your readings.  Your Shorai battery will be happy as long as the charging rate is higher than 12.86 volts and your maximum for a full charge should be between 14.2 and 14.6 volts your numbers are pretty good, though you should check with a real  multimeter for accuracy.  At that, even good multimeters are accurate within 2%.  Yes, your Shorai is technically fully charged at 14.4, but you will not notice the fraction of 1%.

So I got an opportunity to do some testing today.

Ran the multimeter on the battery terminal and kept an eye on the instrument panel voltage display as well. At times there is a 0.3 VDC discrepancy but most of the time they were within 0.05 VDC

When I first fired her up, the display would fluctuate from 13.6 then rise up as high as 14.2
On my multimeter, it basically stayed at 13.95 VDC. If it fluctuated, it was down to as low as 13.93 up to 13.96 mainly when I used the turn signals, and hit the brakes to induce some current draw. I'm running a LED H7 headlight bulb, which I am sure helped cut down on some current draw. The halogen H7 was like a rotisserie oven light.

I noticed the Rick's MOSFET Lithium regulator fins got as high as 160F when my display showed 3 bars (IR thermometer showed heads were around 255F, oil filter was 208F, so oil is fully warmed up). I'll have to check with them to see if that's normal/safe, as I haven't thought to check the stock regulator.

Someone here wanted to know what happens at 3000 RPM, so I checked it at various RPMs from 1300 RPM idle, up to 3150 RPM. The digital display would be at 14.0V with my multimeter at 13.95 VDC.