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Trading in a vehicle?....check this out.

Started by silentbob, February 01, 2009, 09:17:04 PM

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silentbob

February 01, 2009, 09:17:04 PM Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 05:31:12 PM by ducpainter

herm

#1
February 02, 2009, 04:54:13 AM
Quote from: silentbob on February 01, 2009, 09:17:04 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28965129/#storyContinued

um,...........wow :o
i have always purchased vehicles outright, and usually sold them privately, so i dont know a whole lot about the trade in/money owed/refinance thing. is this something that consumers should have been aware was a possibility? i always assumed that when you refinanced with the dealer, that the trade in debt was packaged as part of the loan and paid...(again, no FHE)

i suppose i should not be shocked, since every other aspect of american business culture is proving to be built on a house of dirty cards.
If you drive the nicest car in the neighborhood, work in a cash business, and don't pay taxes, you're either a preacher or a drug dealer...

ducatiz

#2
February 02, 2009, 05:29:25 AM
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

NAKID

#3
February 02, 2009, 06:32:55 AM
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

ducpainter

#4
February 02, 2009, 06:41:07 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 02, 2009, 05:29:25 AM
DAMN, that stinks.
agreed...

what I don't understand is how the dealer can get the lien from the previous loan released so the vehicle can be re-titled to the new owner.

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#5
February 02, 2009, 06:49:51 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 02, 2009, 06:41:07 AM
agreed...

what I don't understand is how the dealer can get the lien from the previous loan released so the vehicle can be re-titled to the new owner.

the lien follows the car regardless of whose name is on the title.  states only require DISCLOSURE that there is a lien

if you could discharge a lien by selling the car, then everyone would get out of loans that way (or make it much harder to collect).

this is a case of caveat emptor -- if you ar ebuying a used car, look at the title BEFORE money changes hands so you can see if there is a lien and if it has been discharged. 

do not take their word that they will deal with it after the sale. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#6
February 02, 2009, 07:10:06 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 02, 2009, 06:49:51 AM
the lien follows the car regardless of whose name is on the title.  states only require DISCLOSURE that there is a lien

if you could discharge a lien by selling the car, then everyone would get out of loans that way (or make it much harder to collect).

this is a case of caveat emptor -- if you ar ebuying a used car, look at the title BEFORE money changes hands so you can see if there is a lien and if it has been discharged. 

do not take their word that they will deal with it after the sale. 
I wasn't aware that DMV in any state would issue a new title without the lien holder signing off. You can't close on a house if there is a lien on the title. Why would a vehicle be different?

My point wasn't that it was a way to avoid paying the loan
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#7
February 02, 2009, 07:50:01 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 02, 2009, 07:10:06 AM
I wasn't aware that DMV in any state would issue a new title without the lien holder signing off. You can't close on a house if there is a lien on the title. Why would a vehicle be different?

My point wasn't that it was a way to avoid paying the loan

the DMV doesnt' care about the lien holder, because the person who is on the hook is the one with the title. 

houses and cars are very different, you don't have a portable title on a house -- i.e. you cannot just write up a bill of sale and transfer it in the same manner.  a home sale requires involvement of the county (or whatever authority) to record the sale and make it official.  if you try to sell a home in any other manner, it may or may not be considered final.

with a car title, once the owner signs it over to you and you put you name in, then you are the owner.  dmv just wants to know that the lien was not hidden and that the buyer knows about it.  if someone shows up with a signed title, they are the owner.

however, i am not sure how these dealers were getting around the disclosure requirements, unless they lied to the buyer and said it was being cleared..
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

silentbob

#8
February 02, 2009, 09:05:03 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 02, 2009, 07:50:01 AM
however, i am not sure how these dealers were getting around the disclosure requirements, unless they lied to the buyer and said it was being cleared..

It's in all that fine print that nobody reads at the bottom of the contract.

herm

#9
February 02, 2009, 11:16:12 AM
my guess is that they never retitle the trade in vehicle when they take you for it.
they just add your payment to their larger debt, and hope to sell it soon (or wholesale it at auction)

so,....if they never officially take title, and then go out of business, guess who is listed as the last owner/debtor...?

come to think of it, when i sold my first monster i think this happened.
i owned it outright, and was selling privately. but a dealer saw the add and bought it.
two things happened further down the road.
a) the state was unaware that i had sold the vehicle, despite there being a law requiring disclosure of this by the buyer.
b) the person who bought it from the dealer got my name off the title, and contacted me about the bike. they were asking me about a problem they were having with it, was it like that when i sold it, etc...

--it was a little spookey actually. they told me they couldnt get the dealer to work with them on the issue,.....
If you drive the nicest car in the neighborhood, work in a cash business, and don't pay taxes, you're either a preacher or a drug dealer...

the_Journeyman

#10
February 02, 2009, 11:47:38 AM
I think the dealer where we traded my fiancée's car attempted to do this.  We did all the arrangement, paperwork etc.  The dealer stated they would pay off the remaining balance, 7-10 business days was the time it needed to go through.  She got a letter showing she missed a payment approx. three weeks later.  Turns out, they were had never filed the paperwork.  We advised them we expected to see the balance with the old financial institution cleared by the week's end.  It was fixed after that.

JM
Got Torque?
Quote from: r_ciao on January 28, 2011, 10:30:29 AM
ADULT TRUTHS

10. Bad decisions make good stories.

famousron

#11
February 02, 2009, 07:41:24 PM
The dealer can't get the title until the loan is paid off. Financial institutions will not release the title until they get paid period. 

If they sell the vehicle before they payoff the loan and/or get the title from the financial institution they will give out temporary tags until they get title in hand.

So, if the dealer doesn't pay the loan-

The party that traded in the car now has 2 car payments and the buyer of that traded in car will not be able to title and register the vehicle after the time limits for temp tags expires.

Thanks to the dealer everyone gets screwed....

Rev. Millertime

#12
February 02, 2009, 07:44:59 PM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 02, 2009, 06:49:51 AM
the lien follows the car regardless of whose name is on the title.  states only require DISCLOSURE that there is a lien

if you could discharge a lien by selling the car, then everyone would get out of loans that way (or make it much harder to collect).

this is a case of caveat emptor -- if you ar ebuying a used car, look at the title BEFORE money changes hands so you can see if there is a lien and if it has been discharged. 

do not take their word that they will deal with it after the sale. 

Not so in Minnesota.  The person who has a lien on a vehicle cannot sell said vehicle.  They can sign the title, but the DMV will not allow a transfer with out a lien release it the title shows a lien holder.

The other thing that amazes me is how the dealer was able to obtain financing for a vehicle (with a payoff involved) and not pay off the trade-in.  When we rolled money owed on trade-in into the new loan, our financing companies would pay off the lien holder when they cut the check to us for the remaining amount.

As much as people want to believe that a dealer will absorb any amount you owe on your trade in... they don't.  You end up borrowing the total of:  Sale price (new/new to you) vehicle - trade in price + balance on loan of trade in.  I was always surprised to see a finance company borrow somebody 35k or more on a 30k vehicle (just example figures)... essentially putting them upside down for the life of their loan.

I solve my problems like an adult, at the strip club drinking on a work night.

Rev. Millertime

#13
February 02, 2009, 07:49:24 PM
I'm guessing this is happening with the used car lots and not so much with franchised dealers.

I remember a used car schluck in my hometown that was notorious for selling cars without a title.  A lot of people got f**ked by him.  Now he's getting f**ked in prison.


Two rules when buying a vehicle from anyone.    Take the VIN and call the DMV to find out if it's free and clear.  If not, make sure a lien release is included with the other important thing - Get the title!
I solve my problems like an adult, at the strip club drinking on a work night.

herm

#14
February 03, 2009, 05:06:41 AM
Quote from: Rev. Millertime on February 02, 2009, 07:49:24 PM
I'm guessing this is happening with the used car lots and not so much with franchised dealers.

I remember a used car schluck in my hometown that was notorious for selling cars without a title.  A lot of people got f**ked by him.  Now he's getting f**ked in prison.


Two rules when buying a vehicle from anyone.    Take the VIN and call the DMV to find out if it's free and clear.  If not, make sure a lien release is included with the other important thing - Get the title!

i think we can all add to this...so,

RULE#1 -Take the VIN and call the DMV to find out if it's free and clear.  If not, make sure a lien release is included with the other important thing - Get the title!

RULE #2 - dont gamble (borrow) more than you can afford to lose

If you drive the nicest car in the neighborhood, work in a cash business, and don't pay taxes, you're either a preacher or a drug dealer...
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