DP Carbon Fuel Tank... issues?

[Episteme]

Just read Capo's thread (sweet tank man - LOVE the paint job!).

A couple comments concerned me...

1. use of caswell coating is a must (I'm guessing a sealant? why not POR-15? are they THAT prone to leaks?)
2. Dragsterhunds tank 'failed'??!! like - fell appart at the seam?? for real?
3. The hinges are weak and prone to cracking?

Ummm... ok.  Since I plan to get a carbon tank in the near future - maybe - I'm guessing that I should have it sealed and reinforce the hinges with a couple extra layers of fabric and appoxy?

What does the voice of experience say on this one?

[TAftonomos]

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money for anything like that.  A product as critical as a fuel tank shouldn't need to be sealed by the customer, it should come that way from the MFG.  Handle it with kid gloves to protect the finish, ok, but be careful if you have gas in it and don't raise it if you do?  That is just terrible.  Think about if you go down?  Even worse are the guys with the carbon tanks and magnesium clutch covers....can you say BBQ? 

I believe fuel cell makes a tank with exposed carbon panels, so you can get the "look" while dropping the weight as well.  Of course, if you are talking about a newer monster, I don't think their tank is done yet.  Fuel cell's have come OFF the bike, bounced down the track, and been repaired/reused without ever leaking.  Seems like the obvious choice to me.

[Capo]

The DP CF tank appears to be a laminate of CF on Kevlar, the pic below shows this. Note that at the bottom (right where the hinge plate would be) is just carbon fibre.
The hinge is pretty substantial and is shown in the second pic.





I got my tank for free from Ducati, I had a warranty issue with the steel tank (18 months out of warranty) and they replaced it with a CF at no charge. I love Ducati 

[moto]

Don't know why anyone would favor a ETI kevlar tank over a pre-preg CF tank made by CM Composite.

I've used both and seen many crashed ones. Usually the ETI looks worse than the pre-preg CF ones. The kevlar liner acts like a bladder in both cases but the external shell on the ETI is usually in much worse condition. ETI does a good job fixing them though- which is a very good thing.

Steel tanks aren't perfect either--they can burst at the folded lower seam and do not tank much a of a hit before they dent (monste rowners know this). The CF tanks will take a much bigger hit before you see any visual damage. My CM CF tank was dropped off a lift. The bike hit a support post on the way down and it only left a small finger nail crack in the outer layer. I would avoid the wet lay tanks with gooey sealant inside like the QB Carbon tanks--those are the types that break into pieces when they crash hard

And as for leaks: when the USA went to hire concentrations of ethanol in their fuel, it forced many composite tank MFG to switch resins. CM was a little slow to do this. We had to coat their tanks to protect them.

Doesn't mean they are the only ones that leak though. My ETI composite 1098 tank leaked and ruined the paint job. They fixed the leak for free, but I had to pay for a new paint job. ETI blamed it on my painter-said it was sanded too deep. I really doubt that. One would have to sand a lot--and experienced painters don't do that.




We sealed it after he painted it just in case:


-M

[ducpainter]

I'm staying out of this fray.

I have opinions of course and will be glad to share them via pm.

[Smokescreen]

We have a 95 M900 with DP tank that's been through two ruptures, once from dropping a tailgate on it (long story) and once from a 35MPH lowside.  Both times repaired by ETI, the guy who makes the fuel cells mentioned earlier in this thread.  Other than when it was damaged, the DP fuel tank has never leaked, and despite a rather violent lowside that cracked the tank up, the hinge never budged. 

So....  In short, in I don't know how many years, but minimum 5 years, and two crashes, our DP tank has never had issue.
Except....  The overflow tube just runs to ground, and pretty much sprays the rear tyre when the tank is overfilled causing spin up when you leave gas stations.  Otherwise, it's great!

There you go, some ACTUAL personal experience with a DP tank.  and just like most stories about Ducatis, it's not as bad as you heard.

HOWEVER, for the same price, you can get an ETI fuel cell with CF panels that looks just as good and has much better customer support.

[Episteme]

Thanks for the reply's folks - varied oppinions are always appreciated.

Moto - what did you use to seal the tanks? If it's something that only experienced hands should play with - then who would you recommend?

Ducpainter - pm sent (I'm morbidly curious).

Epi.

[moto]

Thanks for the reply's folks - varied oppinions are always appreciated.

Moto - what did you use to seal the tanks? If it's something that only experienced hands should play with - then who would you recommend?

Ducpainter - pm sent (I'm morbidly curious).

Epi.

We used POR15 on both the CM and ETI tanks.
It is easy to do yourself.
-M

[ducducgooseme]

POR15 is good, but softer than caswell coatings.

Dont be too dismayed by the negative comments about carbon.  I have had mine for years and love it.

[Munch]

I have had mine for years and love it.

You say that about that rash too! 

I have to second the Caswell Coating process. No issues thus far on mine...

Easy enough to do yourself - if you can follow directions...

[ducducgooseme]

They are red bumps, not a rash, damn it!

[Smokescreen]

When I finally send MonsterGrrl's DP tank in for a respray, maybe I'll try that coating as well.  She's never leaked, but like any Ducati part, you can't be too careful.

[Episteme]

I still haven't made up my mind on this one... all good points for and against. I'll have to sleep on it before I decide I guess. But, the look of a carbon tank with a guilded checker-board stripe and a matching CF solo-seat, beer-tray and front fender... that just looks damn yummy in my mind... decisions decisions.
 

[Episteme]

I can almost sense ducpainter rolling his eyes...

Reason and logic were successfully foiled again, and I bought a used CF fuel tank   . 


ISSUE 1:   While it doesn’t have a scratch on it, it does leak - alot.

Specifically, it appears that the hinge was offset at manufacturing which put pressure on adjacent seam, cracking it.

The hinge pealed off easier than my fork reflectors… which is a good thing, since it allows me to seal the leak and affix the hinge square to the tank. And a bad thing, since it doesn't leave me with much confidence.

I’m considering reinforcing the hinge area with a couple additional layers of CF.  For reference, here’s my research regarding the use of CF and epoxy resins, and a couple places I can order the materials from.
http://www.westsystem.com/
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbonqa.htm
www.spt-tech.com
http://www.shopmaninc.com/carbonpage.html
http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/carbon-fiber-motorcycle-parts/
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=q_fKlDzemPY&feature=related

I would very much like to know how others have fixed leaks/hinge issues of this nature. I’m also curious to know what kind of ‘glue’ Ducati uses to seal the two halves of these tanks.

ISSUE 2: I’m not entirely convinced that this tank will be compatible with my Monster.

I have a 2006 S2R, which has the plastic tank with the large, bolt-on fuel pump/filter mechanism on the underside.

The CF tank, on the other hand, is identical to the pictures Capo posted earlier in this thread. Unlike my plastic tank, the CF tank uses separate internal fuel pump and filter systems mounted to brackets in the top half of the tank.

My understanding is that while FI tanks are ‘backwards compatible’, going the other direction can be a serious PITA. So, I need to know from the experienced among us: will this work with my bike? What about the hinge – will I need to mount a different hinge to the tank? Other fitment issues I should be aware of? What about the fuel sensor, will it work with my gauge?

ISSUE 3: What parts do I need?

Presuming that this tank will eventually hold gas,  that the internals will work with my bike, that I can securely and squarely mount a hinge, and there are no other insurmountable fitment issues… does anyone know what part number’s I’m looking for regarding the internals of this tank? Specifically the filter, pump and fuel level sensor? Aside from a quart of tank sealant, (and the patience of Job), is there anything else this project would require? (time to start hunting eBay again)

<sigh> this is going to be a very involved winter project… but, it could be worse... at least I don’t have ‘bumps’.

[ducpainter]

You need the frame bracket for a steel tank...a pump...a fuel sender, and a filter.

I also believe the bung for the cap is needed.