Should I spring for new springs?

[topangster]

I have on 08 S2R 1000 that's just going in for its 7500 mile service.  I was planning on spending some additional dough on some bar-ends or possibly clip-ons.  But it's been suggested that new front and rear springs could significantly improve the handling of the bike since they come rather soft from the factory. 

I weigh between 205 - 210 (you know, depending on the time of the month...), and often wear a backpack with another 10 lbs. or so of stuff inside (laptop, etc.)  I do a lot of canyon riding, and I suppose I ride fairly aggressively.  Am I likely to notice a substantial improvement in handling with stiffer springs? 

For the record, I'm not unhappy with the way the bike handles now.  But I don't have a lot to compare it to, so I may not realize how much better it could be.  My last bike (which was my first "real" bike) was a Triumph Thruxton, which I also thought handled pretty well until I got on a Ducati...

Thanks for any and all opinions on this tremendously important issue of national (and international) significance.

Topangster

[He Man]

dude, you have NO IDEA what your missing. I did valves and springs on my forks. best investment EVER.

if it matters at all.

im 155 and it made a lightyear of difference.

[mmakay]

At your weight, YES, absolutely get springs. 

[the_Journeyman]

I weight in around 170 and I noticed a difference.  It's worth it for sure ~

JM

[JohnnyDucati]

Re-spring?

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

Worth every penny.

[corey]

Is there a thread with more info  on re-springing?
Im getting worried that im not having as much fun as i can with my bike.
Im 185lbs, and ride an S2R800... Sounds i like i need to respring...

[El Matador]

Night and day difference and about 25 seconds at the track

[angler]

I'm 6'4" and weigh 260 or so.  I'm taking my S2R 800 to DucPond tomorrow for the full treatment.  I'll let you know what I think

[Jarvicious]

When I was in the shop getting the rear sag set along with a couple of other little maintenance tidbits, the tech mentioned I should not just look into getting new springs but rather an entire new cartridge.  Is this something anyone else has done (or heard of doing) with our Showa Forks?  He also mentioned something about an air spring emulator that uses air pressure to simulate a greater amount of preload and rebound adjustment. 

The way I figure it, if all I can do is stiffen up the preload a bit with some cheap springs, so be it.  At the same time though, having rebound and compression damping in addition would be the bees knees.  I'm not opposed to ripping the fork legs off this winter on my own, what did you all pay for your spring sets?  FTR I'm a 230er on an S2R 800. 

I don't mean to threadjack, just hoping someone else has had experience with full cartridge replacements and not just a respring.  I found these cartridge replacements, but I'm not sure what kind of tech the forks on my bike are running (I think you have the same forks, topangster) so anyone with a bit more tech experience please chime in. 

[Speeddog]

S2R800 has non-adjustable Marzocchis AFAIK, S2R1000 has fully adjustable Showas.

[El Matador]

When I was in the shop getting the rear sag set along with a couple of other little maintenance tidbits, the tech mentioned I should not just look into getting new springs but rather an entire new cartridge.  Is this something anyone else has done (or heard of doing) with our Showa Forks?  He also mentioned something about an air spring emulator that uses air pressure to simulate a greater amount of preload and rebound adjustment. 

The way I figure it, if all I can do is stiffen up the preload a bit with some cheap springs, so be it.  At the same time though, having rebound and compression damping in addition would be the bees knees.  I'm not opposed to ripping the fork legs off this winter on my own, what did you all pay for your spring sets?  FTR I'm a 230er on an S2R 800. 

I don't mean to threadjack, just hoping someone else has had experience with full cartridge replacements and not just a respring.  I found these cartridge replacements, but I'm not sure what kind of tech the forks on my bike are running (I think you have the same forks, topangster) so anyone with a bit more tech experience please chime in. 

Yup, I have ohlins in my 996, He Man has the matris ones in his S2R1K. They are fan-make the beast with two backsin-tastic.

It'll probably run you about 500-1000 depending on where you do it and with which parts, but it is an absolute must mod for the bike. You can also send them to racetech. You can probably save some dough by just sending them the forks.

[brentnclemson]

Slight thread hijack...

I started riding about 1.5 yrs ago on a 76 Honda 750.  Needless the say the Monster handles much better than the old CB.  However, I'm still getting comfortable on the Monster and doubt I would be able to tell a difference w/ new springs (I weigh 200 lbs).  I'm thinking I'll ride the bike for a year or so and then look into it.  What do you guys think for a newish rider?

[Jarvicious]

I got into digging up a bit more info on cartridges vs. new springs vs. new forks all together and came across www.departmentofsuspension.com.  Their site was down but I went ahead and gave them a yell just to see what kind of services/products they offered and was more than pleasantly surprised when I got this reply email not 24 hours later:


There are three options as far as a good solution goes when it comes to improving those forks.
 
Stage one would be to do the down and dirty which is to replace the stupid progressive rate springs that you have now with something suited to your weight/riding style and run a higher viscosity fork fluid to deal with controlling the higher rate spring. I have done a lot of these this way but it is a low level improvement at best. It would be plenty good for just riding around town and commuting to work, etc. But any spirited riding would over tax the forks quickly. This would run about $240 parts and labor.
 
Stage two would be to go for the Matris fork cartridge kit. The kit is pretty cool and when installed gives you compression and rebound dampening. One leg would be compression, one leg would be rebound and the adjusters would be on the top of the forks. I have done a lot of these and they work pretty well. They are a nice solution for a bike that will be seeing some back road thrashing and some mid level track day riding. The only problem is that I don't work with Matris anymore because I was having way too many problems with getting shipments on time, getting what I ordered and getting replacement parts. After I let a few customers down because it took me too long to get stuff out of Matris I decided I would rather keep my customers happy and riding and stopped importing their stuff. It's a shame because they make a good product but their infrastructure is non existent. If you did order a Matris fork kit from someone else (I don't know if anyone is importing them right now) they retail for $1015 as of January. They may have gone up in price because of the Euro/Dollar issues. Labor for installation would be $75. I think it would be fair to say you would be looking at about $1100 to go the Matris route.
 
The third option is to get a used set of fully adjustable Monster forks and have them gone through for your application and needs. The advantage with this method is that the adjustable Monster forks are great forks. They are barely one step below a full race fork. Their only shortcomings are that they all come with horrible spring rates, which is obviously easy to remedy. And the valve system is a "one way" type setup that makes them a bit harsher at high shaft speeds (sharp edged bumps) than a superbike fork (748-999) or if they had a set of Ohlins 20mm UES valves installed. The best setup would be a set of fully adjustable Monster forks with the correct springs and a UES kit. A little bonus is that if you go that route when I have the forks apart I could have them anodized any color you want for $120. I have seen used Monster forks on eBay for as little as $250. So this option has sub options.
Used set of adjustable Monster forks rebuilt and loaded with the correct springs $290*+ the cost of the forks.
Used set of adjustable Monster forks rebuilt and loaded with the correct springs and a Ohlins 20mm UES kit. $535*+ the cost of the forks.
Used set of adjustable Monster forks rebuilt and loaded with the correct springs and a Ohlins 20mm UES kit and anodized. $655*+ the cost of the forks.
 In my opinion you will have the best quality fork if you go with one of the "used" fork routes. Every single part of the forks are better quality than the non adjustable units. Going with the Matris setup is like putting $2500 worth of wheels and tires on a $1500 car (we have all seen that). The used forks with a UES kit and springs will be incredible. They will be more fork than you could possibly want. And there is no reason why the total cost of the used forks and the work by me can't be the same or less than going the Matris route.
 
*The parts and labor prices are based on my fall service special that expires at the end of November.
 
Let me know what you think and thanks for contacting us.
 
Jason


 
7720 Roxbury Ct
Ypsilanti, MI 48197
734-474-9971
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The guy gave me a no-bullshit assesment of ALL of my options (including the used ebay route) not to mention the benefit of each in addition to the cost to performance ratio as well as what kind of suspension setup I should look into per my riding style and budget.  Like I said, I just wrote to them on a whim, but the guy REALLY impressed me so as soon as I build up the scratch to get my forks done, I'm def gonna look at department of suspension.  Surry I sound like an add, but I was thrilled with the service.  Hopefully it answered some fellow noobie questions as well as my own. 

[CairnsDuc]

I have an 07 S2R 800, I did the new front springs and new oil for the Forks and a new Ohlins 46DR spring/Shock for the rear.

I mainly commute with a little weekend fun, The front forks are much better, I intend to have a cartridge kit installed when the front forks need a rebuild later in there life, but for now I am happy with the difference.

The Ohlins might be a little over the top, but when I added up the cost of a new spring, rebuild and revalve of the the OEM shock, It made more sense to replace the OEM Sachs shock, also rebuilding the Ohlins is a little cheaper then the OEM Sachs, The 46DR I had fitted is a fairly low spec model (by Ohlins standards anyway) but the difference between the OEM setup and what I have now is just amazing.

It' safer and more fun, worth every cent. 

I hope that made sense, I'm very tired, I have not slept properly in 4 days

[angler]

I'm 6'4" and weigh 260 or so.  I'm taking my S2R 800 to DucPond tomorrow for the full treatment.  I'll let you know what I think

Just got home from Duc Pond with the new springs.  What a huge difference.  Racetech single rate fork springs with heavier fluid and a rear that is about 200 pounds heavier than stock.  Sag is now correct.  I went from scary amounts of dive under throttle let off and braking to very little dive at all, particularly under braking.  The stiffness is definitely noticeable and it may be too stiff in the rear, but the preload was cranked up pretty good to get the sag right.  I hope that a spring that heavy isn't overloading the rebound dampening circuit.  I took some back roads home and it handled the twisties with far more composure.  Before, it seemed to wallow in the corners and was really easy to upset, now it is rock solid.  It seems to turn in quicker, but that may just be me.  With the stiffness in the rear, I thought  big bumps like bridge joints might get worse, but they are so much better.