New Bill for Loud Motorcycles, NYC

[Spidey]

Yeah, it's a pretty unfair law, particularly considering there are existing laws on the books.  It focuses on only motorcycles rather than all motor vehicles (like those cars with the cheap-ass, but loud exhausts).
 
Did you catch the bit below-->  They can seize the bikes?!?  It's not just a hefty ticket?  Talk about punitive.  In fact, it sounds like they can give you a ticket on the spot and seize the bike.  And why does consumer affairs need to be involved in enforcement?



<snip>

Under the proposed law, the departments of police, environmental protection, consumer affairs, or transportation could, upon the issuance of a summons or notice of violation, seize the motorcycle or straight pipe in accordance with rules promulgated by the police commissioner and deliver the bike or pipe into police department custody.  Upon such seizure written notice would be given, where possible, of the procedure for redemption of the motorcycle or straight pipe and of the procedures regarding the required post-seizure hearing to the persons and/or addresses as delineated in the proposed law.  The environmental control board must hold a post-seizure hearing to adjudicate the underlying violation within five business days, and must render a decision within five business days after the conclusion of the hearing.  If the environmental control board determines that there has been no violation, the motorcycle or straight pipe must be released immediately to the owner.  If the owner does not claim the motorcycle within twenty business days after a notice of a determination of no violation has been mailed, however, the motorcycle will be deemed abandoned, and shall be disposed of by the police department pursuant to the state's vehicle and traffic law.  Similarly, if the owner does not claim a seized straight pipe within the same time frame, the police department will destroy or dispose of said pipe.<snip>

[Howie]

Just a little background.

Council member Gerson tried, about 20 years ago unsuccessfully, to pass legislature banning all motorcycles from the West Village.  In 2006 he presented this bill in 2006.  It was tabled until just a few weeks ago and tabled again.  The bill is now up for a vote again.  There has also been a two year period of motorcycle checkpoints where riders have been targeted at checkpoints.  Bikes have been trucked away for minor paperwork violations and expired inspection stickers by the hundreds.  NYC has also been in violation of Federal law for ticketing motorcycles using HOV lanes.

[Capo]

This is the result of a minority pissing off a majority, it's not fair, but will probably spread to other states.

Democracy is akin to 3 wolves and a sheep sitting down to discuss whats for dinner.

[sbrguy]

they can tow the bikes bc "people" don't want to do their job CORRECTLY and carry around a DB meter and make you on teh spot prove your bike passes or not, why?

because that would make people actually HAVE TO do THEIR JOB and actually follow the law.  and as we well know nobody wants to do their job correctly.  so instead "idiot" laws are put in place.

its a poorly written law, written by incompetant politicians. 

they should put a DB meter on crying babies in public and impound the kids when they cry too much.  guarantee they are above 80db.  and i'm not really joking either.  crying babies are just as annoying and disruptive as a 100db motorcycle passing by for a few seconds or minutes.

the majority is not always right by a long stretch.

[Statler]

they can tow the bikes bc "people" don't want to do their job CORRECTLY and carry around a DB meter and make you on teh spot prove your bike passes or not, why?

because that would make people actually HAVE TO do THEIR JOB and actually follow the law.  and as we well know nobody wants to do their job correctly.  so instead "idiot" laws are put in place.

its a poorly written law, written by incompetant politicians. 

they should put a DB meter on crying babies in public and impound the kids when they cry too much.  guarantee they are above 80db.  and i'm not really joking either.  crying babies are just as annoying and disruptive as a 100db motorcycle passing by for a few seconds or minutes.

the majority is not always right by a long stretch.

ok...sbrguy voted off the lobbying team for this project.   


Their  argument isn't that the cops can't or won't use sound meters, it's that people are getting pissed about loud bikes and when they call the cops the bike is already gone.   I agree it's written badly, but it's written to keep loud bikes out of NYC and it's proposing to do it in a rather draconian way.   Any arguments that it should be ok for bikes to be louder than 80 db is going to fail miserably.

[redxblack]

the environmental impact of switching from a cage to a motorcycle is huge, especially in ultra congested areas. NYC seems to be cutting off their nose to spite their face as draconian anti-moto laws will result in more cars, more pollution and more honking horns.

[Spidey]

the environmental impact of switching from a cage to a motorcycle is huge, especially in ultra congested areas. NYC seems to be cutting off their nose to spite their face as draconian anti-moto laws will result in more cars, more pollution and more honking horns.

No sure that's true.  Moto folks should be cautious about overselling the green aspect of motorcycling.  Motorcycles, for all that they get good gas mileage, are pretty dirty and not-that-green machines, particularly when you change out the exhaust and run sport tires.  They are unnecessarily overpowered, have dirty emissions, go through more tires and more consumables, are less rigidly regulated and are exempt from many requirements, and result in a butt load of health care costs.  Sure, they're a better alternative to cars, but they're not the end-all and be all.  And I doubt that there is a large number of people in NYC who have a moto and no car, but who will go out and buy a car if the law passes. 

That said, your argument has emotional appeal.  Folks should use it.   

When the law is written to include seizure of any car in a parking lot or on the street with an aftermarket exhaust (and enforced accordingly), then it'll be fair.  Someone should amend the bill to change the definition from motorcycle to any motor vehicle.  That'll get you all the votes you need to defeat the bill.

[Triple J]

In related news...Oakland, CA police started putting louder exhaust on their motos so they can be heard better.

So much for the PRK sucking, huh! 

[Spidey]

In related news...Oakland, CA police started putting louder exhaust on their motos so they can be heard better over the gunshots and the .

Fixed.   

[Triple J]

Fixed.   

bwahaha! I had forgotten about those whistle tip things. They were just coming out when I lived there a few years ago. Classic. 

[erkishhorde]

Very interesting topic. I'm interested to see how it ends up.

I think the inequallity of the bill is a good arguing point. If it applied to all vehicles I could see it as being monderately fair but even then it's kind of an unfair bill.

I don't like the whole punishment w/o proof part of it either. As has already been stated, you can have the EPA sticker and still be too loud by tampering w/ the insides so their method of deciding who is loud and who isn't doesn't quite work. You could also purchase non-stock non-loud pipes that just look better and still meet dB standards. They're not common but they're out there.

Other than those two points I've got nothing right now. Not allowing bikes in the HOV lane already made me think NY sucked for riding already. This has just reinforced that sentiment and makes me determined to leave NY off my cross-country ride that I plan to make someday before I die.

[Porsche Monkey]

My clutch is louder than my shortened scorpion carbon pipes at idle. Wonder what they would say about that.

[That Nice Guy Beck!]

a fkin black lamborghini merci passed us by on houston street and we thought the devil himself was riding by it sounded like a beast from HELL

[Grrrly]

This past monday 2001chromo and I  visited 4 NYC motorcycle dealerships to check the bikes for an EPA stamping.  2001chromo and I looked at 69 bikes, and photographed them.   
24 of the STOCK bikes DID NOT have a EPA stamping that we could find!!  This included laying on the ground sometimes and sticking a camera in obscured places.  (imagine a NYC traffic agent laying in the gutter doing this on the street, and possibly knocking the bike over looking for the stamping).

the revised draft of the bill has removed the part of confiscation of motorcycles.  Mostly due (I believe) to NYPD refusing to comply as they are ill equipped/trained to transport motorcycles with out damaging them.

[Statler]

This past monday 2001chromo and I  visited 4 NYC motorcycle dealerships to check the bikes for an EPA stamping.  2001chromo and I looked at 69 bikes, and photographed them.   
24 of the STOCK bikes DID NOT have a EPA stamping that we could find!!  This included laying on the ground sometimes and sticking a camera in obscured places.  (imagine a NYC traffic agent laying in the gutter doing this on the street, and possibly knocking the bike over looking for the stamping).

the revised draft of the bill has removed the part of confiscation of motorcycles.  Mostly due (I believe) to NYPD refusing to comply as they are ill equipped/trained to transport motorcycles with out damaging them.

That trip to the dealer info is great for a letter.  with the pics.   Great job.  That's exactly the type of info that needs to get to the right people.  Not disagreeing with them about the noise, but showing that there is NO way to ticket/tow a parked bike that is consistent with actually solving the problem.   The bike must be running and decibel checked.    The first stock parked motorcycle they tow should end this one...but it'd be real nice to kill this in committee before it gets that far.