New Bill for Loud Motorcycles, NYC

[That Nice Guy Beck!]

n/m

[ducpainter]

the boys are and will always be pricks in nyc
they bust ballss for any litte shit you do over there
just this past week they closed down cielo a very nice nightclub, why? prolly cause they didnt pay the right pigs off
cops in my home town are always looking for a fking handout.

Dude....

it's make the beast with two backsing New Years eve...

my air compressor just shit the sheets...

and you want to get make the beast with two backsing political?   

Weigh your options.

[Statler]

let's keep this one on topic, Beck.


<while typing DP beat me to it>

But seriously...uncool, Man.  Why do you have to be that guy?

no...make the beast with two backs that.   24 hours.  see you next year.

[be350ka]

Okay, I am getting confused here.  I posted a thread over on the Triumphrat forum about this topic and there seem to be some guys in favor of these noise limits.   Let me say, I for one am not a huge fan of the extremely loud pipes on some bikes, but that is a personal pref.  My question is this:  What constitutes a "straight pipe" and what do you consider to be too loud?  I have the Carbon Termis sans Db killers and most people tell me it sounds nice and "not loud like those Harley guys".    Whats too loud?

[Howie]

Okay, I am getting confused here.  I posted a thread over on the Triumphrat forum about this topic and there seem to be some guys in favor of these noise limits.   Let me say, I for one am not a huge fan of the extremely loud pipes on some bikes, but that is a personal pref.  My question is this:  What constitutes a "straight pipe" and what do you consider to be too loud?  I have the Carbon Termis sans Db killers and most people tell me it sounds nice and "not loud like those Harley guys".    Whats too loud?

Too loud is in the ear of the beholder, and sound quality counts too.  Legal is another question. 

New York State already has an 80 db limit for motos, the same sound level as your Termis with baffles, though I am not sure if the same standard of measurement is used.  This law is not in question.  This proposed bill is:

http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/attachments/86212.htm

[Statler]

Okay, I am getting confused here.  I posted a thread over on the Triumphrat forum about this topic and there seem to be some guys in favor of these noise limits.   Let me say, I for one am not a huge fan of the extremely loud pipes on some bikes, but that is a personal pref.  My question is this:  What constitutes a "straight pipe" and what do you consider to be too loud?  I have the Carbon Termis sans Db killers and most people tell me it sounds nice and "not loud like those Harley guys".    Whats too loud?

Your pipes are illegal on any public road.   The issue here is whether NYC will be able to ticket you (or much worse) while you are parked, versus having to prove your bike violates the sound regs while it's running.


straight pipe definition as used in the proposed law is:  "for exhaust pipes manufactured after December 31, 1982, “straight pipe” shall also mean exhaust pipes on a motorcycle that are not equipped with an exhaust muffler bearing the federal EPA required labeling applicable to the motorcycle's model year, as set out in Code of Federal Regulations Title 40, Volume 24, Part 205, Subpart D and Subpart E, and shall also mean exhaust pipes on a motorcycle that is equipped with an exhaust muffler bearing such federal EPA required labeling designating such muffler as designed for use on closed course competition motorcycles only."

So your termis would qualify and any time your bike is parked in NYC you could be subject to very high fines and towing.

I am surprised they have not amended the definition to include pipes which exhaust muffler has had internal material removed, although that would be impossible to determine thus losing their easy target solution.

[sbrguy]

Their  argument isn't that the cops can't or won't use sound meters, it's that people are getting pissed about loud bikes and when they call the cops the bike is already gone.   I agree it's written badly, but it's written to keep loud bikes out of NYC and it's proposing to do it in a rather draconian way.   Any arguments that it should be ok for bikes to be louder than 80 db is going to fail miserably.
[/quote]

i agree that its "hard" to enforce laws, but if someone calls to complain, then a car can be by in a few minutes and write the ticket as the person pulls away.  simple, not perfect but it can be done, you wont' catch everyone but you will catch a lot.

afterall this is sort of like saying "we are going to ticket any car that is parked that has an engine "capable" of going over 55mph because we don't want to have to wait and see if a person speeds." afterall if a car "can go" over 55mph then it would be illegal in some states. 

its funny those termi with db killers in them are supposed to be 80db with the db killers in them, so they would 'technically' qualify bc of noise regs but "not qualify" because they may not have an EPA sticker on them.  wtf?

i want to get a set of termi db killers for just this reason bc then the "noise" issue would no longer be an issue and the termi pipes would just adjust the tone of the sound then.

the old law says you can't "modify" the stock pipes so they already have that as illegal, but with the EPA sticker law would do no good for cored stock pipes as they are only looking at the sticker

however, all being said, i do agree that sometimes people put on "too loud" of pipes.  when the pipes are so loud that you set off car alarms for an entire city block that is a bit much.  louder than stock is good, but obnoxiously loud is well "obnoxious".  and in all seriousness we all pretty much know where that point is.

[ducatiz]

NYC has been trying to get rid of motorcycles for years.  Anything bigger than 50 cc.  You see plenty of scooters getting ignored when they park on the sidewalk, but for a bike, you get reamed.

I feel bad for the bikers in NYC, but is this any surprise?

As far as EPA symbols and stickers, I have heard that some people copy the factory pipe decals and have aluminum ones printed up and stick them to a cool spot on the exhaust.  Sounds like it's pretty illegal to me, and I would definitely not recommend doing it...

[Statler]

As far as EPA symbols and stickers, I have heard that some people copy the factory pipe decals and have aluminum ones printed up and stick them to a cool spot on the exhaust.  Sounds like it's pretty illegal to me, and I would definitely not recommend doing it...

 

[That Nice Guy Beck!]

let's keep this one on topic, Beck.


<while typing DP beat me to it>

But seriously...uncool, Man.  Why do you have to be that guy?

no...make the beast with two backs that.   24 hours.  see you next year.

sorry bout that the ADD kicks in, ill go on a rant, i deleted it. happy new year!

[ducatiz]

 

[EvilSteve]

The law should apply to all motor vehicles *OR* be specific to motorcycles with no muffler, as mentioned the EPA stamp is inconclusive & doesn't actually prove anything. Any of the law talking moto types feel that this is unconstitutional?

[ducatiz]

it most likely could be proven unconstitutional IF and ONLY if someone is willing to step up and fight the city over it, which means legal fees and time and effort. 

The city doesn't lose anything to fight these types of lawsuits, which is why you need someone like the AMA to foot the bill.  They make so much money over the fines and most people won't fight a $100 ticket that is going to cost them tens of thousands of dollars to fight.

The city most likely will argue this is a prerogative of its (legitimate) police power, that motorcyclists are not a protected class free from discrimination, that the police have the legal power to pull anyone over for any reason, and so on. 

Courts have generally sided with the police on cases like this, unless the rationale for the pull-over is race/gender/etc.  They see it as driving is a privilege (it is not a right) and the power to extend that privilege grants the state tons of latitude in enforcing traffic laws.

The best argument is the one you made, and add to it that the time and hassle of being stopped is not minimal.  And I am not sure that is a winning argument.

[Statler]

yeah...motorcyclists aren't a protected class...and there are already different sets of rules governing their use...as there needs to be.


If I were there I might do two things...

EPA plate for my own nice bike.  (only a approved and stck one to replace something that fell off over time of course...otherwise it would be highly illegal).

Get a shit bike worth nothing that was stock but had no visible EPA marking to set up the case for when they impounded it.  I'm in the fortunate(?) position where I could spend the time to follow it through and could have some of my own staff work the case......but I don't live there and don't plan on visiting by bike.

[Capo]