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S*R swingarms are awesome

Started by Travman, January 09, 2009, 02:36:25 PM

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Rameses

#15
January 10, 2009, 03:19:02 AM


Asymmetry confuses me.

>:(

Raux

#16
January 10, 2009, 03:47:51 AM
technically speaking. which is better?
is the DSS stiffer?
I know the benefit of the SSS for quick wheel/sprocket change for the track, but for the street is that needed?
which one is mechanically simpler? total compenents?
what about weight? which is lighter (including all unsprung compenents)?

DucHead

#17
January 10, 2009, 06:19:49 AM
Quote from: Phil Istine on January 10, 2009, 03:19:02 AM

Asymmetry confuses me.

>:(

You should take my course.  We put a little "math" behind asymmetry that might make it a little more palatable to you.  ;D

Besides, asymmetry is completely natural.  Take the amino acids for example...
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

ducpainter

#18
January 10, 2009, 06:30:08 AM
Quote from: pompetta on January 10, 2009, 06:19:49 AM
You should take my course.  We put a little "math" behind asymmetry that might make it a little more palatable to you.  ;D

Besides, asymmetry is completely natural.  Take the amino acids for example...
Don't be gettin' all technical.   :P
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#19
January 10, 2009, 06:31:49 AM
Quote from: pompetta on January 10, 2009, 06:19:49 AM
Besides, asymmetry is completely natural.  Take the amino acids for example..

the only circumstance in nature where being a lefty is a good thing!

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

DucHead

#20
January 10, 2009, 06:36:23 AM
Quote from: just another painter on January 10, 2009, 06:30:08 AM
Don't be gettin' all technical.   :P

Sorry.  :P

Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 10, 2009, 06:31:49 AM
the only circumstance in nature where being a lefty is a good thing!

Hmmm...I'm not much of a biochemist, but what's the handedness of a double helix?
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

ducpainter

#21
January 10, 2009, 06:39:00 AM
Quote from: pompetta on January 10, 2009, 06:36:23 AM
Sorry.  :P


I could show you an example of asymmetry you might have different thoughts on.   ;D
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#22
January 10, 2009, 06:49:40 AM
Quote from: pompetta on January 10, 2009, 06:36:23 AM
Hmmm...I'm not much of a biochemist, but what's the handedness of a double helix?

i was referring to amino acids used in the body, like L-Leucine or L-Histidine.

the only double helix structure I can think of right now is typical DNA, which is a construct of aminos.

DNA is bisexual.   [thumbsup]

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

mitt

#23
January 10, 2009, 07:06:53 AM
Quote from: Raux on January 10, 2009, 03:47:51 AM
technically speaking. which is better?
is the DSS stiffer?
I know the benefit of the SSS for quick wheel/sprocket change for the track, but for the street is that needed?
which one is mechanically simpler? total compenents?
what about weight? which is lighter (including all unsprung compenents)?



Depends which marketing dog and pony show you read.  When they went to sss on the monster, they said it was lighter and stiffer.  But, when they went to dss on the 999, it was better than the 998.  Then the 1098 is better than the 999.   But, the sedici is a dss, as well as all Japanese bikes.  blah blah blah.

From a purely engineering standpoint, I can't imagine a sss being as strong as a dss with equal material and equal part weights.

mitt

Raux

#24
January 10, 2009, 07:14:02 AM
Quote from: mitt on January 10, 2009, 07:06:53 AM
Depends which marketing dog and pony show you read.  When they went to sss on the monster, they said it was lighter and stiffer.  But, when they went to dss on the 999, it was better than the 998.  Then the 1098 is better than the 999.   But, the sedici is a dss, as well as all Japanese bikes.  blah blah blah.

From a purely engineering standpoint, I can't imagine a sss being as strong as a dss with equal material and equal part weights.

mitt

the DSS of the 999, i remember, was supposed to have been better but it was the styling pundits that killed it. the SSS was only brought back due to customer sytling demands not engineering. the fact that the D16 has DSS should go a long way to the argument that DSS are functionally superior. just not as cool looking.

ducatiz

#25
January 10, 2009, 08:17:24 AM
Quote from: mitt on January 10, 2009, 07:06:53 AM
Depends which marketing dog and pony show you read.  When they went to sss on the monster, they said it was lighter and stiffer.  But, when they went to dss on the 999, it was better than the 998.  Then the 1098 is better than the 999.   But, the sedici is a dss, as well as all Japanese bikes.  blah blah blah.

you've described a progression of motorcycle technology, of course each successive versions should be superior to the prior, regardless if it is DSS vs SSS.  Better design tools should translate to a better design (plus, advances in metallurgy and casting over the last decade. 

I know investment casting went thru huge leaps and bounds in the last 20 years (thanks to Pinetree).  (yes I know the Ducati stuff isn't investment cast, but that is only an example of modern metallurgy updates).

QuoteFrom a purely engineering standpoint, I can't imagine a sss being as strong as a dss with equal material and equal part weights.

mitt

Yes, with "equal material and equal weights" you limit the design quite a bit.  The SxR bikes' SSS uses a fully tubular design which is stronger than a box design (same reason modern tow hitches are tube and not box). 

If you had a tubular DSS, it would probably be stiffer, but the tube stuff is more expensive to work on.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

somegirl

#26
January 10, 2009, 08:25:55 AM
Quote from: pompetta on January 10, 2009, 06:36:23 AM
Hmmm...I'm not much of a biochemist, but what's the handedness of a double helix?

<geek>

DNA is most often found in right-handed forms (A and B), but occasionally in a left-handed form (Z).  I once worked at a DNA sequencing company, and the CSO once gave a presentation to the Scientific Advisory Board that accidentally included a mirror image picture of the double helix...he was very embarrassed when it was pointed out to him.

A B & Z:


</geek>
Need help posting pictures?  Check out the photo FAQ.

Speeddog

#27
January 10, 2009, 09:01:55 AM
<engineering geek>

In an optimized design, for the same weight of the same material, a DSS will be stiffer and stronger than a SSS.
That's why there's no SSS on MotoGP bikes.

Motorcycles that are for sale to the public are partially constrained by styling, image, production cost, etc., so non-optimized designs are often used.

</engineering geek>
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Capo

#28
January 10, 2009, 09:14:23 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 10, 2009, 08:17:24 AM
The SxR bikes' SSS uses a fully tubular design which is stronger than a box design (same reason modern tow hitches are tube and not box). 

The S*R swing arm is made up of two parts welded together, one of which is cast.


Capo de tuti capi

bmonty72

#29
January 10, 2009, 09:30:58 AM
Less Techy talk...more pics please!!!! ;D

You guys are killing me here.  My SSS is getting powdercoated right now along with the pegs and engine covers. 
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