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S*R swingarms are awesome

Started by Travman, January 09, 2009, 02:36:25 PM

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Big Troubled Bear

#45
January 11, 2009, 10:50:59 PM
Swingarms, sarcasm, symmetry, chemistry and engineering all in one thread.  And now even hot chicks [thumbsup]
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Rameses

#46
January 11, 2009, 11:17:10 PM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 11, 2009, 08:27:55 PM
which would transfer to the swingarm pin in the engine case and torque the stressed engine case against the frame, no?



Yeah, but I thought we were talking about torsional forces on sss and dss swingarms made of round vs. square tube.

My head hurts.

ducatiz

#47
January 12, 2009, 03:41:09 AM
Quote from: Rameses on January 11, 2009, 11:17:10 PM


Yeah, but I thought we were talking about torsional forces on sss and dss swingarms made of round vs. square tube.

My head hurts.

we are!  but a swingarm doesn't operate in a vacuum, it is attached to the bike, so any affect on the swingarm has a complementary effect on the bike.

now here is another thought and i've never looked into it -- are there any significant frame differences better the SSS and DSS monsters?  such as an extra beam or support?  i am curious now.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Oldfisti

#48
January 12, 2009, 08:27:52 AM Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 08:34:46 AM by alfisti
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 12, 2009, 03:41:09 AM
we are!  but a swingarm doesn't operate in a vacuum, it is attached to the bike, so any affect on the swingarm has a complementary effect on the bike.

now here is another thought and i've never looked into it -- are there any significant frame differences better the SSS and DSS monsters?  such as an extra beam or support?  i am curious now.


Not to my knowledge. On the Monsters (and 851/888) the swingarm mounts to the engine case. (pivots behind big bolt for rearsets on S4R)  Beginning with the 916, superbikes have an extra bit of frame that drops down and reinforces this area.


     
Quote from: Sinister on November 06, 2008, 12:47:21 PM
It's like I keep saying:  Those who would sacrifice a free range session for a giant beer, deserve neither free range time nor a giant beer.
Quote from: KnightofNi on November 10, 2009, 04:45:16 AM
i have had guys reach back and grab my crotch in an attempt to get around me. i'll either blow in their ear or ask them politely to let go of my wang.

Capo

#49
January 12, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: CowboyBeebop on January 10, 2009, 01:10:30 PM
The SSS are heavier, no? 

To give some perspective, the 916 SSS weighs 9.4kg, the 999 DSS is 4.9kg


Capo de tuti capi

silas

#50
January 12, 2009, 05:59:34 PM
Quote from: Capo on January 12, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
To give some perspective, the 916 SSS weighs 9.4kg, the 999 DSS is 4.9kg

Don't forget that the SSS possibly has a heavier rear wheel and sprocket carrier too. I think the S2R1000 was a tad lighter than the M1000 of the same year (~10 lbs) for some reason though.

Speaking about assymetry, nature has it a plenty and boy is it nice. Just take the shirt/bra off of any woman w/ good sized blossums !

I'm still on the fence about liking the sss or dss on the ole monster.
Ride fast, ride safe
'98 M900, '92 Yamaha TDM850

ducatiz

#51
January 12, 2009, 06:56:30 PM
Quote from: alfisti on January 12, 2009, 08:27:52 AM
Not to my knowledge. On the Monsters (and 851/888) the swingarm mounts to the engine case. (pivots behind big bolt for rearsets on S4R)  Beginning with the 916, superbikes have an extra bit of frame that drops down and reinforces this area.

all the belt drive L twins have the swingarm in the engine case but i forgot about the 916's extra engine mount point -- probably needed to stiffen the frame -- now the question remains if that was needed due to the SSS?  and did it remain on the 999 for advantage?

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

LA

#52
January 12, 2009, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: Capo on January 12, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
To give some perspective, the 916 SSS weighs 9.4kg, the 999 DSS is 4.9kg

How much does a SSS from the S4RS weigh Vs. a 999 DSS?

Anybody know?

LA
"I'm leaving this one totally stock" - Full Termi kit, Ohlins damper, Pazzo levers, lane splitters, 520 quick change 14/43 gears, DP gold press plate w/open cover, Ductile iron rotors w/cp211 pads.

R90S (hot rod), 80-900SS, Norton 850 MkIII, S4RS

Speeddog

#53
January 12, 2009, 10:13:49 PM
Lemme see what I can do on the weight of those swingers.

I've got an OEM Aluminum swinger, standard DSS unit, I can weigh that.

As far as the frame stiffening and different bearing setup associated with a SBK:

SBK has bearings in the swingarm, so they're spaced further apart than on the Monster.
That's a substantial improvement.
Through bolting through the frame is a major upgrade as well.

IMO, the extra stiffness of the SBK mounting isn't necessary with a monster on the street.
YMMV.

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CowboyBeebop

#54
January 13, 2009, 12:05:47 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on January 12, 2009, 10:13:49 PM
Lemme see what I can do on the weight of those swingers.

I've got an OEM Aluminum swinger, standard DSS unit, I can weigh that.


I'd love to know what an aluminum Monster DSS weighs.  I'd wager its a good bit lighter than the SSS. 

mitt

#55
January 13, 2009, 06:38:09 AM
Quote from: CowboyBeebop on January 13, 2009, 12:05:47 AM
I'd love to know what an aluminum Monster DSS weighs.  I'd wager its a good bit lighter than the SSS. 

+1 - I would bet a starbucks on that too.  Late model Al DSS versus S2R SSS.

mitt

ducatiz

#56
January 13, 2009, 07:23:07 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on January 12, 2009, 10:13:49 PM
SBK has bearings in the swingarm, so they're spaced further apart than on the Monster.
That's a substantial improvement.
Through bolting through the frame is a major upgrade as well.

do you mean the SBK's swingarm pin is captive in the frame and thus, the engine?  that's a big difference.  much easier to seal and maintain.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

caperix

#57
January 31, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
I would like to hear the weight dif. on the swingarms.  I have heard one of the main reasons for switching back to a DSS on the race bikes was due to the current trend of loosening the chassis for suspension when the bike is leaned over.   With a SSS any pivoting of the swingarm will turn the rear wheel, on a DSS is can move like a parallelogram keeping the tire moving strait.

Speeddog

#58
January 31, 2009, 08:22:45 PM
Aluminum DSS from an S4, with axle adjusters and wedge bolts, no pivot pin.

10.5 lbs.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

Jobu

#59
January 31, 2009, 09:42:24 PM
Quote from: Raux on January 10, 2009, 03:47:51 AM
technically speaking. which is better?
is the DSS stiffer?
I know the benefit of the SSS for quick wheel/sprocket change for the track, but for the street is that needed?
which one is mechanically simpler? total compenents?
what about weight? which is lighter (including all unsprung compenents)?



On street regular street bikes, an SSS is faster to change out a wheel and tension the chain, etc.

But those MotoGP guys can change out a wheel in under 30 seconds.  It is pretty amazing to watch them.
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