FAQ: Short Riders

[Snips]

Before I got a bike, I was concerned that I would need to be able to put both feet down flat at once. The natural 'newbie' way to try this, is with the bike up straight.

My MSF instructors told me that this wasn't necessary, and now I've been riding a bit, I appreciate that most people would naturally lean the bike towards the foot they're putting down anyway, so although it might be desirable to be able to put both feet down, in reality, it's not really an issue.

What's important is being able to manage the weight of the bike, anticipating momentum of leans when stationary, and things like fork dip at low speeds when breaking. That comes with experience, and is why it's worthwhile starting with a smaller bike.

btw, I'm a 5' 6" guy, and have had a 620 and now a 696. Both are no problem at my height. The 696 feels ever so slightly lower.

[Smiling End]

Helimot carries the Daytona Lady Star and M-Star boots.

Cool.  Thank you.

[freeclimbmtb]

Being 5'6" with a 30" inseam I can definately relate to this topic. (Probably closer to 5'5" and 29"...but dont tell anyone)  I had (have) a '75 Kawasaki KZ400 for my first bike.  Its not as low as some other bikes but the riding stance, and general lack of power made it a very good bike to learn on in my opinion (along with the fact that you dont want to cry if you happen to set it down) The biggest disadvantage to this bike is the weight, just shy of 390lbs dry. because the bike has a fairly low center of gravity, this isnt a problem while riding, but if you do happen to drop it, it takes either a rage fueled boost of adrenaline, or just a lot of effort to rite it again.  Ive since ridden a friends Honda Hurricane (old CBR) as well as my old roommates Ninja 650R.  both were taller (the Ninja more so) than the KZ, but both easily manageable with just a little experience, I was on the balls of my feet with the Ninja (or a heel and a tip toe).  Having bought the new M696 this winter I havent even been able to ride it and am very anxious to get a good solid comparison, I know i can flat foot it, and i can lean it over 30 degrees or so at a stop and the weight is very managable. 

ANYWAY..  Im a fan of learning on something old and slow...and riding it untill you can throw it around like a scooter. That will make most bikes possible. Ive seen a few people start on 250's and decided it wasnt enough and procede to dump a new 600 that they werent ready for.

[UglyDucling]

I am aspirationally 5'0"---that is, only when I hold my breath and hope---and with a short inseam, even for my height.  Finding a bike was an ordeal, and an exercise in equal parts hope and anxiety, but it worked in the end. 

I learned to ride in November, in an MSF course and on a Buell Blast with a super-thin seat. Though it was reasonably comfortable, I didn't come away from the class with any enthusiasm for continued Blast-riding.  Thus, off I went looking for a bike that would fit.

Frankly, there are so few riders my size that I didn't find a lot of help online: there were a lot of tips for lowering bikes, but nothing that confirmed that I, not at 5'2" or 5'3" but a hair short of 5'0", could do it, except perhaps on a limited number of chopper-style bikes.  Nobody's recommendations worked, at first: The Ninja 250, for instance, was dramatically too high for me---I could swing my legs in the air with the bike upright.  (Plus, I didn't love it.)  My extraordinary mentor, however, kept pushing me just to find a bike that I liked and then start thinking creatively thereafter.  I found, lusted over, and ultimately bought a Monster 620 (2004).  I did so without any confirmation that I'd be able to make it work, but with reasonable assurance that I could turn it around on Craigslist if necessary. 

With me trailing in my car, my mentor drove it straight to the shop.  We:

- Dropped the front about 1" on the forks;
- Sent the seat off to an upholsterer to be shaved down;
- Installed a lowering link;
- Installed soon-to-prove-useful frame sliders; and
- Considered, but decided against, a lower-profile tire.

When I picked up the bike from the shop, I was not encouraged: it was still too tall, it seemed.  I felt precariously incapable of correcting for even the most minor tilt to one side or the other.  I took it out a couple of times around the block and, to my extraordinary dismay, dropped it twice: thankfully, both times, without any damage (except to my ego; alas, no ego-sliders were available at my local shop).

In a last-ditch effort, I turned to advice for boots.  I wasn't willing, however, to shell out over $500 for the M-Star.  So, I went to my favorite local cobbler: I brought in the pair of slightly-platformed boots I'd already found (Cole Haan Air Sara)  and---with sincere apologies to Cole Haan---mutilated them: I had an appallingly ugly 3/4" platform added to the front and the back. 

The fashion results were embarrassing, but the difference on the bike was astonishing.  I've been out several times on the bike now and, though I'm still a notice rider, none of my problems are height-related: I can hold the bike comfortably with two sets of toes on the ground, or else flat-footed on one side or the other. 

I will post precise measurements of the seat-height (after mods) and some close-up pictures of my now-ridiculous (but very effective) shoes later.  For now, simple proof:



Note, in this picture, the shoes:



UglyDucling
6' -12 3/4"
2004 Monster 620
Los Angeles, CA

[JBubble]

Nice job on getting that bike (and your gear) to a point where you're comfortable! I do understand your pain. At an optimistic 5'2" and short inseam, I'm on an S2R, which is a little over an inch taller than a stock 620. I'm still uncomfortable in less than ideal parking lots but I'm getting better at navigating (a shallow seat helps alot).

Have you had any trouble with dragging pegs or exhaust? And how do you manage coming to a stop? I find that I'm either bobbling from tip toes to tip toes or sliding over in the seat and putting one foot flat.

Hope you continue to gain confidence and thanks for posting up your mods!

[signora monster]

Hello from Australia,
I'm currently on a Monster 695 and I am only 4'11". UglyDucling, I feel your pain too. I am toes only on the ground and have done the same conversions including the boots.
Good on you for not giving up. Sure it's hard work when you are stopped, but when you're moving it's bliss. And there are always the crash knobs as an insurance policy.
I guess years of dirt biking and never having more than one toe down with the bike on a lean has given me the confidence to ride my beautiful Monster.
We shorties can do anything!!
Kaz.

[freeclimbmtb]

Im starting to think Im the only guy with this issue... Kidding, as far as footware is concerned, the boots I bought for work are the logger style, so they have a 2 inch heel (though not very much up front) they are also 11 inches high and steel toe. While they make for a very safe choice, i find that the peg sits in a not so comfortable spot on the boot when it comes time to shift. Other disadvantages to these boots are weight and temperature...they get a little warm in the summer, even in new england. but they are definately another option.

[UglyDucling]

JBubble:  I haven't had any trouble stopping or holding the bike up since the mods; I can comfortably keep it steady on the fronts of each of my feet---the picture makes me look significantly more tippy-toed than I have to be---or very slightly leaned one side or the other on a flat foot.  Frankly, as I get more confidence and a better sense of the bike, I could probably lose the boots and, as you do, just shift out of my seat a little bit.

I've had no trouble with the pegs or exhaust as of yet, but that's not saying I won't.  Eventually, I have to modify the exhaust along the undercarriage to keep it from scraping the ground; it has enough clearance for the way I ride now, but as I start to lean more into curves (or if I want anyone over 100 pounds riding the bike!) it will certainly be the first thing to make contact with the road.  When I replace my stock pipes, I'll get all the mods done at once. 

Signora Monster: Rock on! 

[paca]

I am aspirationally 5'0"---that is, only when I hold my breath and hope---and with a short inseam, even for my height.  Finding a bike was an ordeal, and an exercise in equal parts hope and anxiety, but it worked in the end. 

Holy Canole!  I'm also 5' and I've had to lower every bike I've owned.  Usually I do one or the other of the things on your list, but never had to do all of them.  My last two bikes, I had to install lowering links and then shortened the kick stand.  For the S2R, I had the rear suspension adjusted to be an inch lower and also lowered the front forks the same amount.  I think I would cry the first time I drop the Ducati though, so I might follow your lead and make sure I have as much control of the bike as possible.  Thanks for the tips!

[tiger_one]

My wife just purchased a used 09 696, her 4th bike.  She is 5' 2" and IS 26.5". 

S40 was first, she did not like the chopper like frontend or forward controls.  I moved the controls to standard.
Ninja250r was next.  Too high, adjustable lowering links and raised the forks.  But it was slow and not suited for long travel.
09 F650GS low last bike.  Even with the low suspension and low seat was too high.  I put on a lower profile tire on rear but it caused the ABS to cutoff and not work, plus the tire was motard type and did not last long.

696 is 30.3".  Rear travel is 5.8" front 4.7".  Stock suspension is very firm to say the least so even with preload all the way off on the shock, we only lower about 1-1/2".  Only room on the machined portion of forks to raise about 3/4".  I obtained another used OEM seat, cut it down an 1" (took 3 trys) and she is now on the balls of her feet with normal riding boots.  She is going to have her boots (really likes the tourmaster) resoled with 1".

I am now working to get the suspension setup weight wise for her (which means I will not be able to ride it anymore  ).  Ordered shock spring 66nm (85nm or actually a progressive is stock).  When we get it done will post some before and after pics.

[drunkfatguy]

Im starting to think Im the only guy with this issue... Kidding, as far as footware is concerned, the boots I bought for work are the logger style, so they have a 2 inch heel (though not very much up front) they are also 11 inches high and steel toe. While they make for a very safe choice, i find that the peg sits in a not so comfortable spot on the boot when it comes time to shift. Other disadvantages to these boots are weight and temperature...they get a little warm in the summer, even in new england. but they are definately another option.

No, you are not the only guy that deals with this issue, Me-> 5'6", 30" inseam. I solved my problem on my 796 with a DP lowering seat and some decent boots. A few days ago I got a pair of Sidi boots, the heels are just barely off the ground now which are a small difference from my matterhorn boots. Of course right or wrong, I'm usually on the left foot in first gear when stopped with the right on the rear brake which puts me flat footed (on one foot).

[freeclimbmtb]

No, you are not the only guy that deals with this issue, Me-> 5'6", 30" inseam. I solved my problem on my 796 with a DP lowering seat and some decent boots. A few days ago I got a pair of Sidi boots, the heels are just barely off the ground now which are a small difference from my matterhorn boots. Of course right or wrong, I'm usually on the left foot in first gear when stopped with the right on the rear brake which puts me flat footed (on one foot).

I have about the same hight/inseam, and I actually just traded up to the 796 myself.  With the stock seat i can stretch to flatfoot with my work boots, my new sidi vertigos are actually pretty uncomfortable in traffic, the heels are over an inch off the ground with both feet down.  So I also tend to just keep a foot up so that I can flat foot with the other. 

[aveldina]

Here's another short rider's experiences for you. I am 5'4" and inseam somewhere around 29". I started riding on a CBR 125, moved up to a Ninja 650 and am now on the Monster 696. I have never been able to flat foot a sport or sport touring motorcycle, not even close! If you're my height and searching for a bike I can't stress how important it is to find the actual bike and sit on it!

I wear Alpinestars SMX-4 boots and absolutely love them. They're not as tall as the Daytona's but they give me a very solid feel. After three different bikes owned, many tried, and many miles, at this point here's what I've learned:

- Learn how to rest the bike on your hip to move it in parking lots. Once you get good at it, it's very quick and you don't risk falling over because of a hole or dip. Don't let anyone who can flat foot bug you about moving your bike!
- I prefer to keep the bike upright when stopped as opposed to leaning it to get more of my foot off the ground. The less of the weight I have to support with my feet the better. You MUST know how to use both feet. Practice.
- I've never lowered a bike, but this is because handling is huge to me, and I'm afraid to mess it up. I've survived so far!
- The worst thing that can happen is you drop the bike. It sounds terrible, but honestly the damage my Ninja 650 took from my one "oh my god I can't find the ground!" drop was MUCH less than expected and DEFINITELY BETTER than not riding because I was afraid of dropping the bike. Learn from it, figure out what went wrong, and how you can avoid having it happen again and just move on!

Here's the biggest thing I want to add to this conversation for newer short riders who are feeling like it's impossible. It gets better! That bike that feels so tall and hard to handle today, will feel like a feather weight after a few years of riding it. Muscle memory is truly an incredible thing. Over time I've learned that my number one challenge to overcome to ride tall motorcycles is my low confidence level. Once you stop saying/feeling "I can't do this" it becomes much easier. This summer I've been a riding 32.2 in seat height CBR 600RR around, and trying out several friend's 32" seat height Monsters and demoing tall bikes I wouldn't touched with a 10 foot pole 2 years ago. I'm finding out that, though I have to be careful, I can handle these machines just fine with my toes. Practice, experience = confidence. Stick with it, you can do it!

[stratus17]

I would also like to share my personal experiences as a short rider.
I am 5'4'' and currently own a S2R1000 and a Honda VFR800a.
On my VFR, I got a custom, lowered seat. It is much more comfortable than the stock seat but did not help me get my feet much flatter on the ground. As it has been pointed out, the seat width is as important as its height.
I also tried the Daytona boots and did not like them. I am uncomfortable with the higher heels and found it was harder to change speed with them.
So, as Advelina said, the best solution is practice and experience. Confidence will come and make everything a lot easier.

[GirlfriendsDuc]

Hey All,

One of the main reasons I joined this forum was to learn more about adjusting the riding height of the '05 Monster 620.  My girlfriend is about 5'3" and she still has a little trouble moving her bike around and feeling fully confident on inclines and parking, etc.  We've had the seat shaved and this helped, but the incline on the back of the seat still keeps her higher than ideal. 

I've been looking at the rear suspension linkage trying to figure out if there was a way to lower things that way.  Then I found your site and read about an adjustable dogbone link.  Sounds like a perfect fix -- only the old web links to suppliers no longer seem to work.

Anyone know where I can find such a part for sale?

Thanks,
Dan in East Bay