Updated : Best handling 4 seater car. Second time is the Charm

[thejsnide]

+1 on the EVO over the WRX STI, newer or older models...  Also, since you mentioned the Mazdaspeed 3 hatchback... check out the Mazdaspeed 6 four door.  Those things are FAST and they look way nicer that the speed 3's IMO.  Let us know what you decide.

[ROBsS4R]

Okay I added the VW GTI + chip so basically the 250hp GTI to my list

I didn't realize how well the GT handled. Fifth gear did a comparison with the new WRX.

Now generally I don't care for Fifth gear. I much prefer Top Gear so I take there reviews with a grain of salt.

GTI vs. WRX 5th Gear Shootout

So guys tell me more about the Evo =) Remember under 20k is the price =)

[abby normal]

EVO > STI not IMHO.  EVO is a derivative car ... front drive econobox with the rear drive cobbed on
as an afterthought.  it has a front biased torque split and drives like a front drive car. 

[corey]

Could be a deal maker here... the BMW's and the MINI all come with a 3 year full-service package.. Everything but tires is included. Oil, brakes, wiper blades... everything is free... it's pretty nice.

[acalles]

Could be a deal maker here... the BMW's and the MINI all come with a 3 year full-service package.. Everything but tires is included. Oil, brakes, wiper blades... everything is free... it's pretty nice.

lots of manufactures are doing that now..

don't think its free though.. Its tacked into the price somewhere. 

[Popeye the Sailor]

lots of manufactures are doing that now..

don't think its free though.. Its tacked into the price somewhere. 

Maybe not free, but having maintenance be a known quantity is nice.

[acalles]

Maybe not free, but having maintenance be a known quantity is nice.

As a independed shop owner, I see it as screwing with the market.

they can still take their vehicle places other then the dealer... but they already paid for the dealer to have the services done.

FWIW, I have customers who bring me their vehicles, even though they have the "free" services because its much less of a pain then the dealer and they know it will be done right.

[the_Journeyman]

Maybe BMW shops are better.  I was nervous about my fiancée taking her new Impala to the dealer for service.  I'd have probably been more had it been a nice new BMW or something ~

JM

[OverCaffeinated]

I just sold an older beemer that I did most of my own work on. I had to make several trips to the BMW parts dept. I hated it every time. I'll just say there brain waves crash a little short of the beach. 

Never had my car serviced there. I replaced my clutch master and had a question, and not one of the techs had ever done that job before. The BMW dealer even would call a local independent beemer guy to ask him questions. And my car had been to this BMW guru, and even he f up my car.

Sure you get a warm IZ_ by having a maintenance package with the dealer, but don't bank on them doin anything right.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I just sold an older beemer that I did most of my own work on. I had to make several trips to the BMW parts dept. I hated it every time. I'll just say there brain waves crash a little short of the beach. 

Never had my car serviced there. I replaced my clutch master and had a question, and not one of the techs had ever done that job before. The BMW dealer even would call a local independent beemer guy to ask him questions. And my car had been to this BMW guru, and even he f up my car.

Sure you get a warm IZ_ by having a maintenance package with the dealer, but don't bank on them doin anything right.

I don;t, but if you don't, and/or can;t do your own work, it's a lot more fuzzt knowing that for once if you do have to bring it back six times, it's not on your dime, at all.

[ROBsS4R]

Hey when did this turn into a Beamer loving thread. 

And yes a used a M3 is on my short list as well 

[acalles]

once if you do have to bring it back six times, it's not on your dime, at all.

you haven't delt with lots of dealers, or read the fine print on those contracts have you..

if they can prove that in any way you caused the problem threw abuse or acts of god.. the repair is on your dime..

[corey]

you haven't delt with lots of dealers, or read the fine print on those contracts have you..

if they can prove that in any way you caused the problem threw abuse or acts of god.. the repair is on your dime..

have had no such issue with the mini.
i could cowboy the car into a curb and snap a cv joint.
they would repair it under warranty.
i could ride around with the hand brake on, they would replace rear brake pads and calipers (if they didnt burst into flames haha) under maintenance.
no questions asked. it's all inclusive. and yes i DID read the fine print on the contract.

[JEFF_H]

Our experience taking the Mini into Mini/BMW Sacramento service was one of the best dealership experiences I have ever had (sales was excellent too)
(2nd only to Ducati Seattle of course  )

might be worth checking out service dept in advance

not sure if i would consider the cooper a 4-seater unless your rear passengers are children, or midgets like me or spidey

[acalles]

have had no such issue with the mini.
i could cowboy the car into a curb and snap a cv joint.
they would repair it under warranty.
i could ride around with the hand brake on, they would replace rear brake pads and calipers (if they didnt burst into flames haha) under maintenance.

good luck with all that.

when it comes to making money in service, customer pay is way more then warranty (which doesn't pay for shit) and abuse is always customer pay.

I'm not saying nothing bad about mini's... I've seriously considered one and was litteraly on my way to test drive one for shits giggle and maybe to buy when I got into a major car accident.. (truck blew a light and smashed my moms A4 to bits, we both walked away, the people in the truck were taken unconcious.. she got another A4 FWIW)

but I wouldn't bet you can do anything you want to the car and have them pay for it. There are good dealers out there but thats just rediculose.

If a sales man told you that you could do that.. DONT. they will do and say anything to make a sale.