Valve shimming for 2V. How often ?

[WTSDS]

Due for a 40, 000 km service, very impressed with the reliability of this machine over the last coupla years/ 20,000 km

I seldom thrash it and most of the mileage has been highway riding

Intend on a doing the cam belts , oil, etc. but the motor is running sweetly, there's no tappet noise, the plugs look perfect, compression is fine, fuel usage unchanged.

I'm pretty familiar with older bevel drive Ducs, once set the shimming didn't need any fiddling with for yonks, unless the cam was wearing out.

How often do these Monster shims really need to be done ? Wouldn't there be a few warning noises if they were getting a bit too loose ?

Surely some naughty person has neglected to have this checked for a wee bit longer than recommended ?

[Howie]

The real question is how often do they need to be checked, since once broken in the settings can last a long time.  The problem is if a valve is too tight or way to loose expen$ive damage can occur.

[Duck-Stew]

As modern Ducs get the mileage on (like your 40km), they need less and less valve shim fiddling.  I did a 24K(miles) service on a customers 1999 M750 and set the shims up nicely.  My customer brought the bike back at 30K and the shims had barely moved.  Two openers opened up 0.001" and one closer opened up 0.001".  Nothing else moved.

A friend has 200km on his ST2 (120K miles) and he checks his valves every 20K as well as changing belts every 20K.  (I don't recommend the belts, but he's a Ducati guy.  YMMV on the 20K belt interval).

What I would do if it were my bike:  change the belts, look at the valve specs and change the oil and fuel filter.  After that?!?  Ride it.  [moto]

[Gimpy]

So in your opinion my 2001 m900ie with 12K(miles) probably isn't exactly dialed in yet?  I ask cause I just checked the specs and it seems like my valve clearances are a little tight and I was considering leaving them.  For instance my vertical  cylinder opener shim measures >.038mm but <.05mm.  I should man up and get them in spec, it's just that the weather has been really nice.     On a related note.  When getting my vertical cylinder into TDC there is a line not a dot in the sight glass.  There are a million dots but none of them seem to line up even close to where the piston feels like its at the top of the stroke.  This is making me nervous because if I go by the line my valves are out of spec if I go purely by feel they are in spec.  I have done valve shim jobs on other bikes but this is my first on the Duc. 

[Duck-Stew]

So in your opinion my 2001 m900ie with 12K(miles) probably isn't exactly dialed in yet?  I ask cause I just checked the specs and it seems like my valve clearances are a little tight and I was considering leaving them.  For instance my vertical  cylinder opener shim measures >.038mm but <.05mm.  I should man up and get them in spec, it's just that the weather has been really nice.     On a related note.  When getting my vertical cylinder into TDC there is a line not a dot in the sight glass.  There are a million dots but none of them seem to line up even close to where the piston feels like its at the top of the stroke.  This is making me nervous because if I go by the line my valves are out of spec if I go purely by feel they are in spec.  I have done valve shim jobs on other bikes but this is my first on the Duc. 

When I'm shimming valves on a Duc, I rotate the piston until they are at or near TDC ( +/- a degree or two ain't going to kill anything).  I then remove the timing belt.  That allows me to freely rotate the cam to whatever position I need to in order to slide the openers around, or get a feel for where the base-circle of the cam is, whatever.  It's just really easy when you do it this way.  Then, I re-time the cylinders when I'm all done with both.

IMO, @ 12K...your valves are approaching seated into the heads and (the most mobile part of the valve train:) the valve circlips have just about beaten themselves into complete submission.

Another thing, if you run a closer too tight, you can damage the rocker arm (flaking chrome is nobody's idea of a good time).  If you run the opener tight, you run the risk of the valve having no where to thermally expand to when engine heat gets into it (think vertical exhaust here).  If the valve opens up, you loose compression out of that cylinder (and power) and run the risk of burning the valve (think big $$$ here).  I would MUCH, MUCH rather run valves too loose than too tight.

[Gimpy]

When I'm shimming valves on a Duc, I rotate the piston until they are at or near TDC ( +/- a degree or two ain't going to kill anything).  I then remove the timing belt.  That allows me to freely rotate the cam to whatever position I need to in order to slide the openers around, or get a feel for where the base-circle of the cam is, whatever.  It's just really easy when you do it this way.  Then, I re-time the cylinders when I'm all done with both.

IMO, @ 12K...your valves are approaching seated into the heads and (the most mobile part of the valve train:) the valve circlips have just about beaten themselves into complete submission.

Another thing, if you run a closer too tight, you can damage the rocker arm (flaking chrome is nobody's idea of a good time).  If you run the opener tight, you run the risk of the valve having no where to thermally expand to when engine heat gets into it (think vertical exhaust here).  If the valve opens up, you loose compression out of that cylinder (and power) and run the risk of burning the valve (think big $$$ here).  I would MUCH, MUCH rather run valves too loose than too tight.

Thanks!!!  That's a great idea! When you re time the cylinders do you do anything other than lining up all the marks??  I'm replacing the belts as well so this is kinda a no brainer.  Thanks again for the advice

[Duck-Stew]

Thanks!!!  That's a great idea! When you re time the cylinders do you do anything other than lining up all the marks??  I'm replacing the belts as well so this is kinda a no brainer.  Thanks again for the advice

When I'm trying to beat the clock (doing service while a customer waits, or not having much time) and I'm going to replace the belts, I don't bother to remove them.  I just cut them off and have at it.

Yes, just line up the marks and adjust your tension rollers and you're good to go (I'm assuming here you know how to change out timing belts, right?).

[Gimpy]

When I'm trying to beat the clock (doing service while a customer waits, or not having much time) and I'm going to replace the belts, I don't bother to remove them.  I just cut them off and have at it.

Yes, just line up the marks and adjust your tension rollers and you're good to go (I'm assuming here you know how to change out timing belts, right?).

Well I have LT Snyders book , and a Haynes manual, but I have never done it before.  Seems pretty straight forward.  Align marks - add belts - check tension - torque everything down - check tension again.  I'll also  check out Chris Kelly's videos before I go to crazy. 

[kawazar]

My bike has 42k on it now. The last time the dealer did a valve adjustment for me he said because of the mileage to check them every 12k. At that time I had about 25k on it. I checked the valves myself since then and have not had to make any adjustments. He said with the higher mileage everything is seated and the adjustments don't need to be done as often. The last time I checked them I checked everything 4 times because I couldn't believe the measurement were fine.

[scott_araujo]

While adjusting the valves takes some skill and special tools, checking them is fairly easy.  Just take off the valve covers, rotate the engine, and measure your clearances.  All you need is an allen key, feeler gauge, and a new set of valve cover gaskets.  It's cheap, easy, and will answer your question for sure.  If something is out of spec you can decide what to do from there. 

There are great videos on the web showing how to do this.  If you don't feel confident tackling this yourself ask for assistance, someone here will be happy to help.

Scott

[the_Journeyman]

Mine on the M750 didn't require any adjustments at the 18K, 24K, nor 30K.  Once I hit 36K and make sure everything is still in spec,  (belt interval) I may started only doing the belt interval service and check the valves then.

JM

[bigiain]

I've got around 240,000km on my 99 M750, and I haven't changed a shim in over 100,000km. I changed all of them to "old school" specs at the 80,000km service (this first one I did myself), then needed the tweak two shims sometime after that, and have just checked them every 10,000km ever since (I think a couple of closers are probably a little looser than I'd set them if I was gonna go in and change any, but not as loose as the "new world" spec...)

big

[Duck-Stew]

Either 'new' or 'old' world specs, I find it odd that Ducati DOESN'T put the fact that the Desmo valves get better with age into any of their advertising...

Also, I recently 'educated' a Monster owner and friend who was swapping out his stock split-rings at every valve adjustment.  If you do that (and I can see his reasoning), the valves never really 'seat' in as the split ring does almost all of the shifting of measurements over time.

Oh, he's on the board....but I'm not telling who it is. 

[Jobu]

Either 'new' or 'old' world specs, I find it odd that Ducati DOESN'T put the fact that the Desmo valves get better with age into any of their advertising...

Also, I recently 'educated' a Monster owner and friend who was swapping out his stock split-rings at every valve adjustment.  If you do that (and I can see his reasoning), the valves never really 'seat' in as the split ring does almost all of the shifting of measurements over time.

Oh, he's on the board....but I'm not telling who it is. 

So, how often do you change the collets? 

And, shouldn't one just buy MBP's and forget about the split rings forever?

[Armor]

I check/adjust valves on my bike every winter (04 M1000).  This past winter I changed 2 openers and 2 closers at 20,000 miles (enough to change - not actually out of spec.).  This was the biggest change since the 6,000 mile check.