First time doing a valve check - Is this normal?

[Paegelow]

Well it was cold and rainy all day today, so I decided to check my valve clearances.  Now, the dealer did adjust the valves about 4000 miles ago (my cylinder heads were replaced on warranty), but 7500 miles is coming up, so I want to do all the services now anyway.  This is on my 695, by the way.  This is also my first time adjusting valves on a Ducati.

Anyhow, I checked the clearances, and on all 4 valves there was no clearance on the opener shim.  I could easily spin the shim with my finger, but there was no play in the rocker, and I couldn't fit even my thinnest feeler gage in.  However, if I pressed down the closer rocker with a screwdriver, I measured plenty of clearance, both between the opener shim and rocker ("loaded gap," as they say) and between the actual closer rocker and closer shim.  So much clearance that it would seem all 4 closers were out of spec.  It just seems weird that the closers are all out, and I couldn't even measure any of the openers.  Is that unusual?

For reference, I used the timing marks on the crankshaft sprocket, vertical cylinder cam sprocket, and the flywheel to make sure things were at TDC.  I also looked through the spark plug hole to make sure the piston was right at the top of its travel.  For the horizontal cylinder, the dealer had painted a second mark on the vertical cylinder camshaft sprocket, and that seemed to match up perfectly with TDC for the horizontal cylinder, so I went with that.  Point being, I'm pretty confident I had the cams where they were supposed to be when I was measuring.

I did leave the timing belts on though.  Do you really need to take them off to do this?  I wanted to leave them on because I'm not replacing them at this time.

Oh yeah and one more thing.  None of my valve covers had gaskets.  They all had some white RTV-like gasket maker stuff, which the dealer must have used.  Anyone seen that before?

[Chchadder]

Probably DucatiBond.  My dealer likes to use that goop too.  Never done my own adjustment on the 695, so I can't help there.  Someone else'll chime in soon.

[Paegelow]

You're right about the goop.  I just asked my dealer abiout it, and they said I could buy a tube for about $14.  Maybe I'll just get that instead of the gaskets.

So anyone have any advice about my valves? 

[the_Journeyman]

You can probably get a high-temp RTV gasket maker that does the same thing as the $14 Ducati stuff for cheaper at the auto parts.

Not sure on "normal" for all the closers to be out, BUT as the engine parts bed in and such, you're likely to see movement & required adjustments in the 1st couple valve checks ~

JM

[jerryz]

Zero closer shim clearances on a 2 valve motor like yours when you can spin the shim  but not put a guage in is good it means the clearance is .001 and will make the bike run best thats the closers  the opener should be .004. so it may be yours is wrong!!!
I always do it on 2v motors but NEVER do it on a 4valver.

[EEL]

Sounds like you have the timing marks right. Everything makes sense. Good thing you checked your valves cuz they sound tight.

Find a reputable dealer with plenty of references or do it yourself. Those are the only two options I would consider.

[Paegelow]

I'm definitely going to do it myself.  Way to easy too pay someone else to do it!  My only gripe is now I have to buy smaller opener shims just to be able to measure them, and then I'll have to buy shims again to get the clearance correct!

[Paegelow]

I think what I'm going to do is go to the dealer and just buy one opener shim.  I'll get a thin one.  Then I'll be able to use that to figure out what size openers I'll need to get for each valve.  Anyone see a problem with that idea?

By the way, anyone know where I can get some metric feeler gages?  I just have a regular english set from Sears, and they have the metric numbers on them, but they go in all goofy intervals.  It would be nice to have just metric size ones.

[Mr Earl]

Before you go to the dealer...

I think you are not at TDC on the compression stroke.  If you're getting opener clearance when you push the closer rocker down, something's not right - like the valve is moving down.

IMHO, the way to be sure of TDC on the compression stroke is to (after removing spark plugs) put your finger over the spark plug hole and then rotate the rear tire in top gear (or however you're turning the motor over).  When that cylinder is approaching TDC-compression, your finger will be pushed off the hole by air pressure.  Next, stick a screwdriver into the hole until it contacts the piston top.  SLOWLY rotate the engine - adjusting the screwdriver position so it doesn't jam against the plug hole - until the screwdriver stops upward movement.  Now take a look through the sidecover window and bump the rotation to perfectly line up the marks.  Repeat if you go past the mark accidentally.  Now you can be confident that your shim clearance measurements will be valid for that cylinder.

[EEL]

Also, one quick note. Pending you're sure your at TDC you have some options without buying new shims.

A tight opener can be sanded down to obtain the proper clearance. You've already indicated that the shim can be spun by hand. If this is the case, you could probably sand these down fairly easily. Get a flat piece of glass and some 600 grit paper and wet sand it down to the right clearance.

That being said, if your openers are screwed up, you might want to check your closers as well.

[Mr Earl]

I agree, and the same applies to the closer shims.  If you do need to buy some, I recommend EMSduc.com.  Way cheaper than dealer, and beautifully made shims.  Mike ships very quickly, too.

[Dietrich]

I found almost the same exact thing when adjusting valves on Rule62's bike recently.  All closers were loose, and a couple openers were tight.  My theory is that as the valves "seat" and wear into the valve seats they are slowly moving out of the head and towards the openers, tightening things up (by thousandths of an inch of course).  Just a good reason to check/adjust them every once in a while.

[Paegelow]

Earl, your procedure for finding TDC is pretty much exactly what I did.  I think that's a pretty foolproof way to do it 

Well I went over to the dealer on my way from work to school, and they don't really sell individual shims (), but the parts guy said I should measure the openers I have and we can trade out some of them with the giant service shim stockpile.

Once I figure out what sizes I need, I'll order them from EMS.  Definitely way cheaper than the dealer!

Also, my buddy is going to bring over some Honda factory feeler gages tomorrow.  Supposedly they are metric and go in super fine increments, so that ought to be much better than my crap english feelers.

[Paegelow]

I found almost the same exact thing when adjusting valves on Rule62's bike recently.  All closers were loose, and a couple openers were tight.  My theory is that as the valves "seat" and wear into the valve seats they are slowly moving out of the head and towards the openers, tightening things up (by thousandths of an inch of course).  Just a good reason to check/adjust them every once in a while.

That totally makes sense, I bet you're right 

[Ddan]

I think what I'm going to do is go to the dealer and just buy one opener shim.  I'll get a thin one.  Then I'll be able to use that to figure out what size openers I'll need to get for each valve.  Anyone see a problem with that idea?

By the way, anyone know where I can get some metric feeler gages?  I just have a regular english set from Sears, and they have the metric numbers on them, but they go in all goofy intervals.  It would be nice to have just metric size ones.

You shouldn't need to buy an extra shim just for measuring.  Pull off the shims one at a time, measure them and use the smaller one to gauge what you need.  You may find you can get a couple in spec using the shims you have.