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Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

Started by ducatiz, June 09, 2009, 12:56:37 PM

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Curmudgeon

#2775
November 19, 2013, 09:47:23 PM
Quote from: Desert Dust on November 19, 2013, 09:24:43 PM
My recommendation- get the oil cooler or consider purchasing a water cooled machine if you plan on longer rides in the heat, and I've heard the Aussie sun can be ferocious.
His issue has little to do with engine heat. It's the flapper valve under the seat which gets hot. Cooling the engine would do little if anything to address this. Swapping out the flapper valve for a 696 mid pipe might help, but ungeheuer or Raux might be able to confirm. I don't notice it much under ~ 85 F / 30 C ambient temp. Above 90 F / 33 C, you feel it. The kind of pants or leathers you wear will also have an impact. (I don't ride in jeans. ;))
2011 796 ABS "Pantah" - Rizoma Bar, 14T, Tech Spec, Ohlins DU-737, Evaps removed, Sargent Seat, Pantah skins

ungeheuer

#2776
November 19, 2013, 10:59:22 PM
Quote from: Curmudgeon on November 19, 2013, 09:47:23 PM
Swapping out the flapper valve for a 696 mid pipe might help, but ungeheuer or Raux might be able to confirm.
I got nothing to say about that here.  Here's about plastic tanks  ;)
Ducati 1100S Monster + Ducati 1260ST Multistrada + Moto Guzzi Griso 1200SE

Previously: Ducati1200SMultistradaDucatiMonster696DucatiSD900MotoMorini31/2

NAKID

#2777
November 20, 2013, 08:08:53 AM
OK, so the tank swap went well. Interestingly though, the tank wouldn't close properly with my PCIII installed in the same place it has been for 5 years now. Not a major issue since there's additional room now due to the Shorai.

So the tank looks good. The caswell coating is a noticable layer of clear coating on the inside of the tank.
The dealership dropped a little fuel in it and I headed to the gas station. They also installed a new fuel filter in it while I was there, the original filter had about 18.5K miles on it.

Everything seemed fine until I was on my way back to work this morning. My fuel light came on at 123 miles. I usually get about 135 before it comes on. I'll fill up again today and see if I notice a difference again. Could it be that there was just some air in the tank since it's new?
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

ducpainter

#2778
November 20, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: NAKID on November 20, 2013, 08:08:53 AM
OK, so the tank swap went well. Interestingly though, the tank wouldn't close properly with my PCIII installed in the same place it has been for 5 years now. Not a major issue since there's additional room now due to the Shorai.

So the tank looks good. The caswell coating is a noticable layer of clear coating on the inside of the tank.
The dealership dropped a little fuel in it and I headed to the gas station. They also installed a new fuel filter in it while I was there, the original filter had about 18.5K miles on it.

Everything seemed fine until I was on my way back to work this morning. My fuel light came on at 123 miles. I usually get about 135 before it comes on. I'll fill up again today and see if I notice a difference again. Could it be that there was just some air in the tank since it's new?
The volume of a complete kit is 1.5 quarts...

do the math. ;)
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#2779
November 20, 2013, 09:49:29 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on November 20, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
The volume of a complete kit is 1.5 quarts...

do the math. ;)

Of which is about 70% VOCs
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#2780
November 20, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on November 20, 2013, 09:49:29 AM
Of which is about 70% VOCs
I never read the label with regards to solids content, but that seem really high for that type of epoxy. :-\
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


NAKID

#2781
November 20, 2013, 03:42:15 PM
I figured the amount of tank swell would have been about the same volume. I certainly didn't expect to lose capacity...
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

ducatiz

#2782
November 20, 2013, 06:43:14 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on November 20, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
I never read the label with regards to solids content, but that seem really high for that type of epoxy. :-\

Actually I was exaggerating and now that I think about it, its probably pretty low.  The epoxy they use is available for industrial coatings in a non liquid form which has a 0% voc.  I assume they add reducer but I dont know how much.

In the tank that I did testing with the coating cured at about 1mm thick in most places.  Thicker in tbe corners.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

NAKID

#2783
November 20, 2013, 08:41:02 PM
Well, it seems I have lost a pretty decent amount of available volume. I filled up as much as I could today after the fuel light being on for 10 miles. Normally I would put in just over 3 gallons with that distance. This time, 2.85 :-(
Not happy about the loss of capacity. I was already pushing close to my daily commute limit. I dont want to have to get gas twice a day...
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

Desert Dust

#2784
November 20, 2013, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: NAKID on November 20, 2013, 08:41:02 PM
Well, it seems I have lost a pretty decent amount of available volume. I filled up as much as I could today after the fuel light being on for 10 miles. Normally I would put in just over 3 gallons with that distance. This time, 2.85 :-(
Not happy about the loss of capacity. I was already pushing close to my daily commute limit. I dont want to have to get gas twice a day...
I noticed the same phenomenon with my recently coated tank; I ran completely out of fuel last Saturday, and I was only able to squeeze in about 3.2 gallons. My fuel light quit working so I go by mileage. Dam!  [bang] I was sure I had enough fuel to go 10 more miles. Luckily I was only a mile from home and my wife was able to deliver some fuel to me.
07 S2R 1K:  "You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world.”

ducatiz

#2785
November 21, 2013, 06:47:52 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on November 20, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
The volume of a complete kit is 1.5 quarts...

do the math. ;)

It's about a quart, really.  The large can is just over 2/3 full and the small can is full.  After mixing, you lose some unless it is reduced very thin.  I usually add about an oz of xylene which gets most of it, but I still have about a 4x4x0.5 inch left over. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#2786
November 21, 2013, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on November 21, 2013, 06:47:52 AM
It's about a quart, really.  The large can is just over 2/3 full and the small can is full.  After mixing, you lose some unless it is reduced very thin.  I usually add about an oz of xylene which gets most of it, but I still have about a 4x4x0.5 inch left over. 
My point was the material will reduce the volume of the tank.

To be conservative figure .8 qts for a complete kit.

That translates to .2 gallons. If you estimate 45 mpg that would account for a reduction of about 10 miles/tank, which is what Chris experienced.

Simple multiplication. ;D
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#2787
November 21, 2013, 07:41:17 AM
Yeah, I know.  It's unfortunate that the coating is necessary but that's what we're left with if one has a plastic tank.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

NAKID

#2788
November 21, 2013, 08:37:19 AM
Yeah, I understand that completely, but this now makes my daily commute an exercise in restraint so I can have enough fule to make it to work and back without filling up more than once.
FYI, I'm averaging between 49-51mpg...
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

Jim H

#2789
December 06, 2013, 02:19:04 AM
Morning everybody,

I updated my post last night (page 185 of this thread). The post was originally intended to be universal, meaning it applies to all other bikes affected as well as the Superduke so please feel free to take a look. I have duplicated correspondence with NHTSA & VOSA for your information. Not as many links to click this time, some of the areas covered refer to epoxy coating & preparation but it also delves a little deeper. I couldn't sympathise with you guys more now that Ducati seem to be pulling a complete U-turn on choice of tank material but once everything in the post is taken into account I hope you'll see where I'm coming from.


Thank you Ducatiz for the positive response. I'm on your side and I haven't held back this time. From what I've been reading I'm sure the Ducati fraternity have received a pretty poor deal. Who know's, maybe things can still be improved.

Fingers crossed,

Thanks

Jim
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