Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[ZOSO]

IZ, any thoughts?
I realize the website sells stuff so motives may be suspect . . .

http://www.fuel-testers.com/review_gas_treatment_products.html

Regarding K100:
"Comment from Fuel-Testers:   K100 marine brochure and website falsely state,  "Eliminates water and all water related problems"...."Stops phase seperation in E-10 fuel"; (Misleading and impossible claims - While it may "delay" phase separation, you're still left with gas that contains excess water and alcohol that will damage your engine)."

[ducatiz]

Iz or tiz?

Nothing removes water from fuel once it's mixed in.  (well, maybe combustion but you know what I mean...)

K100 apparently "sequesters" the water so it does not fully separate.

There is very little along the fuel path that would be harmed by the presence of water in solution -- except for the nylon tank.

The only reason I have said take a look at K100 is that they provided me with a 3rd party (customer-a refinery owned by Lukoil) test of the fuel.  K100 did not pay for the test nor did they request it, the customer wanted to test it to see if it would help in their changeover from G100 to G90 (i.e. E10) gasoline.  

I also contacted the makers of Stabil and Startron and they refused to provide anything, they emailed me literature that they produced.

My position is that NO fuel treatment should be left in a NYLON tank in the hopes of preventing water separation.  K100 looks like it actually has some success in dealing with water present, but if you're using your bike regularly and you are using a fuel treatment for short terms, then it might help some as it may keep the water from separating for a short term.

All of these fuel treatments help gasoline burn a little hotter intermittently so negative effects of the presence of water are mitigated.  You'll suffer a little in performance, but it wont gag your engine.

The only question I have is what effect will the fuel additive have on water in the fuel mixture and how long will it prevent it from separating and therefore, direct contact with the NYLON tank's wall?

(As a side comment, putting a small amount of water into your intakes will not destroy your engine.  Google "decoke pistons" and you can see videos of people spraying small amounts of water into a carburetor or diesel intake to help get crap off the pistons.  Likewise, there are water mist sprayers used for performance which spray a mist of water directly into the intake during load.)
 

[poseur]

highly doubt another Duc will be among the final list though.

Same here. No more Ducati for me. Such a shame. They really blew it.

[junior varsity]

Not only small amounts of water but some have implemented an entire steam cycle ("6 stroke") to get additional power out of the motor while simultaneously reducing chamber temps.  Pretty neat stuff (in that case you have a second tank for water only, not so convenient). As you said, the only place the water causes problems is in the tanks really

[ducatiz]

I don't think Ducati blew it.

I think they've done a remarkable job of replacing tanks for the last 2+ years, although now I learn that Harley has been doing the same thing for their XR owners.

I do think they got scared or something and were misled.  Or someone at Ducati just wanted to end the ability of people to sue over it.

I think they were between a rock and a hard place.  I think if they had taken the coatings seriously, they could have found something that worked.

The problem with the coatings are the unknowns:  who is doing it?  what condition is the tank? how did they prep the tank? etc. 

After going over and over the stuff published from the case, I am convinced someone either totally misunderstands how to test such a product or wanted to make a showing that they did "something" to test it, regardless of how valid that test was.

I still love Ducati.  I'll probably buy another one next year (give me a little break, I just bought another one -- I am on a "buy 3 vintage, then buy one new" cycle and I need to move the old BMW first.)

I would even buy a bike with a plastic tank provided I could get it with no gas and coat the tank first. 

Well, at least the attorneys got paid. (and yes, I'm an attorney but this is part of the reason I never wanted to do this kind of law.  If you have tax issues and you're not hiding assets, you can call me...)

[Uncle Mofo]

 [beer]New tank installed today.  I'm going to start saving for aluminum tank


Is the FI tank compatable with the S4Rs?

 http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html

[ducpainter]

[beer]New tank installed today.  I'm going to start saving for aluminum tank


Is the FI tank compatable with the S4Rs?

 http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html

The S4RS has a different shaped mounting flange than any other Monster.

I'd say it won't work with your parts.

[junior varsity]

Maybe they will make a proper one for you-aren't they made to order?

[muskrat]

Ducati replaced tanks or Acebris?  that's the question I'd like to know.
In other news, I read the Lawyers made $835,000 on this deal.  Way to go, at least someone's happy.

[hillbillypolack]

Nice.  F#cked over the coals by believing that a company might 'do the right thing'.

I honestly didn't think anything different would result from this settlement or even the public response after posting it months ago.  I've given up thinking that Ducati is looking at anything else except for profit and gathering new, naive customers to the 'brand'.  It didn't used to be like that.  That's why I have more than one.  The older one.

Iz, while I appreciate your enthusiasm for Ducati and 'the little engine that could' I think you have to stop drinking the Kool Aid and see it differently.  I appreciate the 'small Italian company' and all that BS, but at some point you have to agree they are simply cowards on so many levels by not coming clean and admitting to a poor material spec.  That, in simple legalese is called negligence.  Nothing less.  Hiding behind a veil of a legal process tells me more about how the company treats its customers than I would have believed a year ago.

Coupled with the fact (referencable fact, via EIA.gov) that ethanol in fuels have been in North American gasolines since the early 1990s.  Ethanol's effects (and its ability to gather water into said fuel) in fuel containers should not have been a surprise to anyone by this late date.

Will I keep the bike?  Yeah, more than likely.  But this will be the last Duc for me for a number of reasons, which I won't repeat again.

[drvslow]

[beer]New tank installed today.  I'm going to start saving for aluminum tank


Is the FI tank compatable with the S4Rs?

 http://www.moto-works.jp/beater/index.html

Did my convertor work correctly- these tanks are around $2300 US?  Thinking I could purchase a few plastic tanks and coat them for that.  Or buy a large fuel tank for the back of the truck and deliver ethanol free gas to refuel locations along my route. 

[junior varsity]

Have you priced a plastic tank?!?

[ducpainter]

Have you priced a plastic tank?!?

[Uncle Mofo]

Maybe they will make a proper one for you-aren't they made to order?

I emailed them inquiring about the S4Rs tank. We'll see

[HotIce]

Hope?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/01/end-of-ethanol-subsidy-could-raise-gas-prices-for-2012/1