Throttle off-to-on transition in corners....

[johnster]

Hey peoples...

     So here is what I've been focusing on during my recent corner practice sessions that I've been doing with me, me, and.....me....

I'm trying to refine my "point-and-shoot" technique of crouching while at straightaway open-throttle and approaching the turn....then popping up to absorb wind and shifting body position while I'm downshifting, and making one quick flick before I throttle back on...

-I realize this sounds like track riding, but I find that practicing stuff like this helps me when riding spiritedly, even if I don't utilize it all the time...

-My problem, though, is that my bike has SOO much driveline lash when going from throttle off to throttle-on, that it disrupts the suspension enough to make me scared....I don't know if it's par for the course with a 916 engine with hot cams, or what....    So what I've been doing is slightly pulling the clutch in to ease the transition from throttle-off to throttle-on which seems to help, but it's too much extra work!!   

-So, I have now started to slow down enough where I can crack the throttle as I'm flicking in, that way I don't have to worry about the drive line lash at full lean....

Does anyone else struggle with this?? I feel like it's a huge part of my ride that I have to improve on.... 

-john

[ducpainter]

I struggled with it until I had the suspension upgraded.

The bike would become very unsettled with any throttle adjustment...so much it would develop a wallowing feeling.

Find a good suspension tuner, have that issue addressed and it will make the transition much better.

[Grampa]

http://www.amazon.com/Sport-Riding-Techniques-Develop-Confidence/dp/1893618072/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

there is a great section on corner entry and exits.

[johnster]

The bike would become very unsettled with any throttle adjustment...so much it would develop a wallowing feeling.

YES!!!  You nailed it w/the wallowing....And I've gotta be honest, I've "played around" with my suspension, but never actually had it correctly set for me and my riding...

-I knew it had to happen at some point...    Maybe my technique is reaching the point where I'm beginning to notice the consequences of incorrectly set up suspension...That would make a lot of sense..

[Ducatista]

I don't experience this on my street bike (carbie) nearly as much as with my track bike (FI).  The only time my throttle was completely closed was in the hard straight line braking.  Just before I'd transition from hard braking to trail braking at turn in, I'd crack the throttle juuuuust a hair.  Then as I was letting off the brake more and more, I'd be opening the throttle more and more.  That way, while I was leaned over, I wouldn't have to deal with the throttle crack issue.

My advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.  Please correct me if wrong.

[Grio]

Youv'e got some engine braking going on that is characteristic of a twin.  You should be able to modulate your throttle through a turn with out upsetting the bike, but I would consider that a somewhat advanced technique.  You could always smooth things out further by feathering the clutch, but...

If you have been futzing around with the suspension, by all means get it set by a local suspension guru!  If there are any tracks local to your area, there are probably experts that will adjust bikes trackside for a nominal fee.  Worth every penny.

One other comment:  I'm usually fairly neutral throttle through turns on the street; I'll add drive from the apex to corner exit if I want to ride spiritedly.  Try being on the throttle when you initiate your steering input.  That means all you breaking is complete before you turn.  From your description, it sounds like you might be coasting a little when you "flick it in".

Oh, and see if you can get and old salty dog/local rider to follow you around and give you some input.  I'm sure they could see all kinds of things we just can't here.

[mihama01]

I am never really at zero throttle through out the corner so there is never any drive line lash. Instead of zero throttle try to maintain enough to keep slight drive on the rear wheel.

It is not just the chain; V twin power can come on with a bang from low revs which can be a bit unsettling, I tend to maintain higher engine revs so you can apply the throttle much more smoothly. This works the opposite way as well, you can also modulate your speed in the corner using just the throttle and not drop out of the usable rev range.

Go in with revs too high however and there is not enough headroom to accelate out of longer curves however.

I am not a fast rider however, just smooth.

[Wonked]

I agree about never being at zero throttle.

[55Spy]

slipping the clutch thought the turn should be just fine.  Being on the throttle through the turn is also desireable the majority of the braking done before the turn and rolling on the throttle as you get through the turn. Correct suspension won't hurt one bit

[Ducatista]

slipping the clutch thought the turn should be just fine. 

Just a word of caution.  Be careful doing this.  When your clutch is even somewhat pulled in, it reduces the size of your front tire contact patch without making the rear one bigger.  You should have selected your turn in gear before you enter the corner and only be upshifting on the exit.  I don't think that any school advocates shifting anywhere from turn in through past the apex.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[55Spy]

Just a word of caution.  Be careful doing this.  When your clutch is even somewhat pulled in, it reduces the size of your front tire contact patch without making the rear one bigger.  You should have selected your turn in gear before you enter the corner and only be upshifting on the exit.  I don't think that any school advocates shifting anywhere from turn in through past the apex.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was referenceing this in leiu of shifting if you had the wrong gear selected to get get back in the powerband without the lash, honestly hadn't done much on the track or looked into the tire contact implications.

[Ducatista]

I was referenceing this in leiu of shifting if you had the wrong gear selected to get get back in the powerband without the lash, honestly hadn't done much on the track or looked into the tire contact implications.

What I said holds true for the track and the street.  If you're still downshifting while already turned in, you're really going to unsettle the suspension.  The really nice thing about having a twin is that ok, you may lug a bit if you get around 2k rpm, but you don't lose all power.  Just stay on the throttle. 

[somegirl]

What I said holds true for the track and the street.  If you're still downshifting while already turned in, you're really going to unsettle the suspension.  The really nice thing about having a twin is that ok, you may lug a bit if you get around 2k rpm, but you don't lose all power.  Just stay on the throttle. 

Sounds like good advice.

[Smiling End]

What's "driveline lash?"

[Ducatista]

What's "driveline lash?"

Your chain is only loosely connected to your motor.  It is the slop in that connection that creates the feeling of a tug just at throttle opening.  It's felt more when you have a really kinked chain.