Low side Frontwipe out

He Man · December 21, 2009, 09:01:50 PM

Guy is hard on the brakes and decides to initial a turn while still on the brakes. Even though the turn is ever so slight, its enough to wash the front out with amazing speed.

BeaverRun Crash on Ducati 1098

Spidey · December 22, 2009, 02:09:56 PM

Yup, too much front brake and no traction left to lean. That'll put you down pretty much instantly. Only a lucky (or highly skilled) few--like Lorenzo at Laguna this year--can lock up the front and keep it upright.

I've crashed on the front brake a coupla times. It sucks. One minute you think you're ok and the next you're on your ass. You don't even have time to try to save it.

He Man · December 23, 2009, 10:24:15 AM

Ive had that feeling before once on the street at 20 mph comming to a stop on diesel oil. It isnt fun, and i can only inmagine this is 100x worst!

fasterblkduc · December 23, 2009, 12:37:27 PM

Looks like poor traction maybe due to cool track/tires. Look at the sky. It looks cold.

This is not from braking while leaned. I slide the front tire a lot while racing from braking hard all the way to the apex. This is done to pass on the brakes and not the fastest way through a corner but if you have good suspension and rubber, it's easy to slide the front and have it hook back up nicely. Of course this works much better with slicks than DOT race rubber.
I've also lost the front way too many times so I'm very familiar with what it feels and looks like just before crashing. This guy lost it real early in the turn and I think it's from no grip.

Spidey · December 23, 2009, 12:55:29 PM

Quote from: fasterblkduc on December 23, 2009, 12:37:27 PM
Looks like poor traction maybe due to cool track/tires. Look at the sky. It looks cold.

This is not from braking while leaned. I slide the front tire a lot while racing from braking hard all the way to the apex. This is done to pass on the brakes and not the fastest way through a corner but if you have good suspension and rubber, it's easy to slide the front and have it hook back up nicely. Of course this works much better with slicks than DOT race rubber.
I've also lost the front way too many times so I'm very familiar with what it feels and looks like just before crashing. This guy lost it real early in the turn and I think it's from no grip.

It's a lack-of-grip crash, but b/c of too much brakes. Maybe it's semantics. He didn't lose the front the way that we often see on television -- right before the apex and because the combo of brake and lean maxs out the traction of the tire. In those types of crashes, you can feel it start to go and often save it --especially on Dunlops. This guy's front tucked suddenly because the tire (for whatever reason) couldn't keep up with how much brake he was using combined with just a bit of lean. It was a tuck as opposed to a slide. That puts you on your ass pretty much immediately.

fasterblkduc · December 23, 2009, 01:43:28 PM

Yeah, I think that we are pretty much on the same page. I just think he was not very hard on the brakes and my theory is that the tire didn't grip due to being cold. I was just saying that it wasn't due to lean but more to lack of grip from tire. I've had a few drinks already so if I read what I typed tomorrow, it may not make much sense

Oh, and +1 to your Dunlop comment. I'm on Dunlop slicks exclusively because they rock! They have saved my ass countless times. I'm so hard on the front that no other tire can get me out of what I get myself into.

I may have a tire sponsor for next year that is not Dunlop and unless it's a really great deal...I will not switch but instead pay full price for the Dunlops because nothing else compares.

ducpainter · December 23, 2009, 03:29:11 PM

He crashed...

what are the semantics?

DarkStaR · December 23, 2009, 05:18:46 PM

The horn going off in the grass is kinda funny.

meep,beep,beep,...beep.

It's like the bike was crying for help.

Kopfjager · December 23, 2009, 09:30:26 PM

Quote from: fasterblkduc on December 23, 2009, 12:37:27 PMIt looks cold.

What are you, a weatherman?

fasterblkduc · December 24, 2009, 09:21:22 AM

Quote from: kopfjÃ¤ger on December 23, 2009, 09:30:26 PM
What are you, a weatherman?

No, but I'm damn good at being Captain Obvious. Today, it's snowy

Here's my FJ Cruiser this morning.

fasterblkduc · December 24, 2009, 09:58:07 AM

Quote from: ducpainter on December 23, 2009, 03:29:11 PM
He crashed...

what are the semantics?

Alcohol induced.

Kopfjager · December 24, 2009, 06:41:02 PM

Quote from: fasterblkduc on December 24, 2009, 09:21:22 AM
No, but I'm damn good at being Captain Obvious. Today, it's snowy Here's my FJ Cruiser this morning.

Vanman · December 27, 2009, 01:39:38 PM

Damm that was harsh.

ducpainter · December 27, 2009, 02:05:14 PM

Quote from: fasterblkduc on December 24, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
Alcohol induced.

That explains a lot.

Monsterlover · August 04, 2010, 08:26:38 AM

BeaveRun is my home track.

Tons of guys end up ignoring that turn and put their bikes out to pasture to graze because they just can't get slowed enough to make the turn.

That is turn 1, probably my favorite because you can pass like 5 guys at once on the brakes.

I see he lost it right at the turn in cone while he was still braking.

Im normally in about the same spot on the track when I go into that one but I am always off the brakes at that point. I don't race, so Im not braking hard to the apex but I will trail the front for sure if im a little hot.

Im in agreement with FBD and spidey. . .

Maybe that was lap one of the day?

Also, at that track, the cars have rippled the pavement on the outsides of the fast corners.

That one isn't bad though. You can take a suuuuper late line and still be ok (though there is a big dip you end up going through if you go really wide)

Fun track, I've been at 135mph at the end of that straight on my old 675 (and im no expert rider)

That's an awful nice bike to pitch down the track.

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Low side Frontwipe out