How to get over fear

[Smiling End]

I just started reading Lee Parks' book Total Control and just finished the section on fear.  That was going through my mind today when the I had my first slide in a turn.  For a split second I was shaken then I said to myself, "that was fun".  While it really wasn't I think just saying it really helped to calm myself down and I immediately felt like the adrenaline surge I had was gone.  This got me thinking, if every time you do something that freaks you out you say something like, "that was fun" (can't be something negative) you can probably trick your mind into thinking that what was not a good experience was really something not so bad.  In a way you can trick your subconscious so your body doesn't freak out on further rides when similar situations come up.

I hope that was coherent.  Any thoughts?


ps, not sure if maybe this belongs in Riding Techniques...

[Popeye the Sailor]

Wouldn't that be training yourself to see "dangerous" situations as "fun"?



Which would lead to poor decision making.



Could you balance this apple on top of your head for a minute? I need to practice my archery. It'll be "fun". 

[Smiling End]

Wouldn't that be training yourself to see "dangerous" situations as "fun"?



Which would lead to poor decision making.



Could you balance this apple on top of your head for a minute? I need to practice my archery. It'll be "fun". 

Yeah, I think you could probably take it to that extreme but maybe it just needs some tweaking.  In more general terms wouldn't it be more like using positive reinforcement to overcome the bodies fight or flight response in situations where your logical mind is aware that they are unnecessary?  I'm not talking about popping wheelies down the middle of the highway but doing something that you know is a safe practice but for some reason something happens that kicks in the adrenaline.

HAHAHA, I am going shooting this weekend but I think the range looks down on that type of activity.   

[ducpainter]

It would be best in Riding Techniques.

[ducpainter]

My thought is that if you need to trick your mind into not over reacting to a situation that scares you...

you are better off.

The bike will usually bring you through a scary situation if the rider doesn't add input to counter the 'normal' progression of things.

Of course...YMMV

[DoubleEagle]

I see nothing wrong with positive thinking ( obviously)...although you don't want that to embolden you to do things that normally you are not prepared to deal with from experience. I have had many a close call where I could have bought the farm (so to speak ) and I tried not to let it jade me from my mission of being a crazy road racing motorcyclist but when I am riding and pushing the envelope I must be realistic in knowing that sooner or later I am going to crash.  I can't be as good a rider as I think I am just because I have gone out and rode hell bent for leather on backroads of two lane blacktop and come home in one piece 99% of the time. Recently I had a very bad crash that I shoudn't have had . But many times I should have crashed and burned but didn't. Find a comfortable "Pace " as written in an article titled by the same name on this Forum ,unless you want to die !

[somegirl]

I think it is a good idea to try to train yourself to stay relaxed and avoid panic reactions on the bike.

However, I don't think that you should train yourself out of avoiding the scary situations by thinking that they are fun.

[Smiling End]

I think "fun" was probably the wrong word for me to use.  I guess I was going more for the positive attitude in a potentially negative situation. 

[Alex]

Ya, I've been riding for about 5 years straight now without any accidents-- I credit the fact that I remain uninjured to a healthy sense of fear.

I saw a guy riding around in shorts and flip flops earlier today pulling a wheelie. I wonder if he read that chapter too? 

[Statler]

moving the pucker factor closer to the bike's limit than your own is a good thing.   Moving your own pucker factor past the bike's limit can hurt.   Nothing moved mine more than some days at the track with professional instruction.   Even after 17 plus years of riding it changed my street riding ability more than anything else.     

I understand what the initial poster was saying.....my $.02 is that how you change the fear thing should be based mostly on training and rider ability, more than simply switching gears internally in your head.


Of my friends who have crashed in singe vehicle accidents (no car hit them...they screwed up all by themselves), there are two categories.....one hit a mental limit of bike leaning and ran wide off the road...bike had more left than rider.   the other category had no mental limit and lowsided by leaning over soooooo far (cough, NuTTs caught on video, cough)...rider had more left than bike.

[55Spy]

I think the real thing to consider is fear management.

If you walk the fien line of your limits and arent a bit scared you have issues that will lead to hospitalization.  But you don't want what could be an every day situation to send you into complete G-lock.

Pushing limits in a controlled situation will help your every day fear inducing situation reaction.

wheelie school, track schools, I actually suggest off-road classes to every road rider I know.  the speeds are a little slower, (albeit I've end over ended a bike in the desert at close to 65mph)  the bike sustain less damage, the ground is more forgiving and you can learn a ton! 

In all thedesire is to learn about Body position, feeling of loose bikes, the precursors to actions, and most of all having a base of reaction toa  feeling/situation vs fear taking over. 

Example I was on a quick ride with my pops through Trabuco Canyon, I hadn't ridden all winter in Nebraska and was out in California ona  vacation.  I went in hot to a corner hit the brakes late too much rear from teh winters enduro cross activity left me with a loose rear and the bike going towards a low side.  Instincts led me to slip the clutch , reweight the pegs and put more gas into it to keep the rear broken loose sliding it through the turn.  Afterwards my dad said it looked and sounded crazy to see the rear lock up and then  start smoking twice as fast as it should have.  I'm not saying this was at all the totally correct sequence of events but  it was about a situation that I felt what  was happening and input an ingrained solution to the feelings.

later at lunch we talked about the cliff that was right there and the fact that my dad was so tense after watching it happen that his hands got numb and it was all he could think about for the next 45 miles of riding

He focused on the "what ifs" too much  he's a bit to analytical always wanting the perfect solution, fear has kept him from splitting lanes in SoCal for 5 years. 

[johnster]

Dirtbike experience has been HUGE for me as a street rider, mainly because things you intentionally do on a dirtbike are the same things that scare the crap out of you on a streetbike!! I owned a KX80 and an RM125 growing up...

-Take breaking the rear wheel loose for instance.. Whether it's accelerating out of a turn or "backing it in", sliding the rear wheel is par for the course during offroad dirtbiking...The same two things on a motorcycle, however, are recipe for disaster for most riders....

-Having dirtbike experience really teaches you that it's ok to let the bike move around a bit under you....And just because your rear wheel breaks loose throttling out of a corner doesn't mean an automatic crash.... A survival reaction would be to chop the throttle as a panic maneuver, which would likely result in a massive highside! 

-On a dirtbike in this situation, you would steer into the slide and ADD throttle, to gently bring the rear back to where it needs to be.... Same goes for a streetbike....  If you have the ability to not Freak Out and do the right thing, you'll be suprised at how many "potential crashes" turn into "minor occurances"

-or as the OP said,   "fun"....

[triangleforge]

There's an excellent read on the psychology of fear & action sports in a three part series in the journal American Whitewater. The author, Doug Ammons, is a PhD in psychology & extremely high-level river kayaker and he does a great job of explaining the neural pathways that kick in when we're frightened. His thesis is that our basic, chemical-induced "fight or flight" response that has evolved in humans & other animals (not just mammals) over millions of years did a good job of protecting the species for most of its existence, but is poorly suited to potentially life-threatening 21st century pursuits like Class V+ kayaking (or motorcycling).

From Ammon's article:

The first part of this article, published in the November/December 2007 issue of American Whitewater, dealt with the nuts- and-bolts physiology of fear. It stressed that fear was a hard wired survival mechanism, and that the biggest problem for us as paddlers was that our usual “fight or flight” survival reflexes evolved to have us run, fight, or freeze in the face of danger— reactions that are totally inappropriate on a river. The physics of flowing water determine how effective any response will be, and water is a force of nature, not a living creature that can be intimidated, driven away, or killed. This means that we have to learn a new set of skills to keep ourselves safe, skills that are very different from what comes instinctively.

Part 1 deals with the physiology of fear -- the hard-wired parts of our brain that kick in when we sense danger, real or imagined:

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Journal_show-page_issue_6_page_14_year_2007_

Part 2 focuses on the psychology of fear -- how we learn it, and why we're attracted to it.

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Journal_show-page_issue_2_page_4_year_2008_

And the final part -- which appears to be up on the web just in the last couple of days (hasn't shown in my mailbox yet...) is the payoff: learning techniques to deal with fear -- practicing to mastery ("real, demonstrated control is the best defense against fear"), developing core mental skills, reality training (Johnster's & 55Spy's excellent suggestion of trying dirt, track & lots of other ways of getting used to the edges of the envelope & not being as surprised when they loom on the street), and managing fear once it's grabbed you by the short ones -- both immediately & in the long term.

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Journal_show-page_issue_3_page_6_year_2008_

Lots of good information there, and if you're bugged by the soggy subject matter, you'll get a lot out of it just by substituting the word "motorcycle" for "kayak" and "road" for "river."

[FireInTheHole]

I think riding to the edge can be done two ways and the payoff on exhilaration is different but often just as intense.  For instance, the fear you get when something happens that you were not expecting raises your awareness to that single slip-up or surprise in a way that can be very dangerous - read: panic.  In my opinion when you ride in a series of panics you need to calm down, assess your technique, then slowly build back up to the situation that caused the fear in the first place.  The second type of exhilaration is controlled adrenalin, which I find to be much more of a long term enjoyment.  Knowing your moto, knowing how you react, knowing or expecting what will happen when you push it just a little further...these are all ways that I feel like I can still get my heart pumping without putting myself or others in too much danger.  I think we have a tendency to push ourselves too quickly sometimes and that often is where the problem begins.

I guess, simply put, ride to the upward comfort levels of your ability without passing them until you become good enough to ride to the upward capability of your bike.  Not the other way around.  Both will give you the butt clenching but one comes with fear.

Now if someone could tell me how to get over my fear of hitting a dear, I'd like to hear that 

[spinned]

I think it is more a matter of practice.  If you practice pushing yourself in a fairly controled environment, when you need to use the skill in real life you will just do it instinctively.