blazer eating spark plugs

[ducpainter]

What?  You can't get an engine to run on sludgy water?  You can't call a fuel that doesn't work great?

Fact of the matter is E10, besides being problematic, in a modern closed loop vehicle, reduces fuel economy and power plus increases tailpipe emissions.  Plus we pay more for that crap.

gotta love progress...

This whole scenario is making tetra-ethyl lead and MBTE seem like a good idea.

[Greg]

What?  You can't get an engine to run on sludgy water?  You can't call a fuel that doesn't work great?

Fact of the matter is E10, besides being problematic, in a modern closed loop vehicle, reduces fuel economy and power plus increases tailpipe emissions.  Plus we pay more for that crap.

Come on now - the Government knows what is best for you 

[Porsche Monkey]

Come on now - the Government knows what is best for you 

Greg, I've seen the 10% stickers on Exxon and shell pumps, haven't seen them on Valero yet.  We see several cars a week now that become so fuel flooded that we have to change the spark plugs.  Its usually on a cold start after sitting for a few days.  The life span on spark plugs for most Porsche's is 60k miles. We are having cars with 10,000 miles come in on the hook needing new plugs.  If I don't ride the Duc for a few days it is very hard to start.  If I don't ride it for more than a week I need to break out the ether.  This is with brand new plugs and fuel filter.  If you say Valero isn't using 10% then that's what ill use.

[ducpainter]

Greg, I've seen the 10% stickers on Exxon and shell pumps, haven't seen them on Valero yet.  We see several cars a week now that become so fuel flooded that we have to change the spark plugs.  Its usually on a cold start after sitting for a few days.  The life span on spark plugs for most Porsche's is 60k miles. We are having cars with 10,000 miles come in on the hook needing new plugs.  If I don't ride the Duc for a few days it is very hard to start.  If I don't ride it for more than a week I need to break out the ether.  This is with brand new plugs and fuel filter.  If you say Valero isn't using 10% then that's what ill use.

It's only a matter of time.

[Bun-bun]

The automotive problems associated with E-10 pale in comparison to the trouble it's caused in boats. A number of larger, older boats have fiberglass fuel tanks. The ethanol dissolves the resins in the fiberglass, and those resins get carried into the carburetors and combustion chambers, resulting in a carb rebuild, or an engine rebuild. In some cases the fiberglass is weakened enough to cause fuel leaks from the tanks. Some of these tanks are up to 1000 gallons capacity(big fireball). In one case, the boats tank leaked gas into the bilge, and the bilge pump pumped the gas overboard. This is a big environmental no-no. The feds got involved, and the owner was heavily fined. 

[Greg]

Greg, I've seen the 10% stickers on Exxon and shell pumps, haven't seen them on Valero yet.  We see several cars a week now that become so fuel flooded that we have to change the spark plugs.  Its usually on a cold start after sitting for a few days.  The life span on spark plugs for most Porsche's is 60k miles. We are having cars with 10,000 miles come in on the hook needing new plugs.  If I don't ride the Duc for a few days it is very hard to start.  If I don't ride it for more than a week I need to break out the ether.  This is with brand new plugs and fuel filter.  If you say Valero isn't using 10% then that's what ill use.

Since this is a big deal for you, I'll put some time and effort into it next week sorting out who does and who does not use ethanol in their gas in S/A.

[Porsche Monkey]

Since this is a big deal for you, I'll put some time and effort into it next week sorting out who does and who does not use ethanol in their gas in S/A.

Thanks buddy that would be great.

[Porsche Monkey]

Got two more no starts this morning.

[Greg]

OK - here is what I have so far. Seems like pretty much everybody in town is already distributing E-10 except for Valero, so for the time being you are safe gassing up there. Now for the bad part, I talked to a buddy who calibrates the meters at the big fuel terminals and he said that they are in the process of converting those terminals to handle E-10, which means that Valero will soon have the capability of selling E-10. Will take a little more work to find out if Valero is planning on selling E-10 exclusively, or if they plan on selling both. Will let you know what I find out later this week, as I'm out of town tomorrow.

[Porsche Monkey]

Damn. Thanks for the heads up Greg.  That's really good to know.

[acalles]

to the OP, yeah, its running way too lean. your plugs aren't the only thing thats gonna melt.

that E10 crap is all I can find here too, and yep, since its introduction the rough start/ no start / flood cars have gone threw the roof.

and for some damn reason, it slows down the wide band O2S we use, but they don't throw a fault.. O-scope it and they read really slow response, which only makes the fowling of plugs and valves worse.

never saw that with regular gasoline, not to mention, the price went up 2 more cents for every octane grade, used to be 86 base, 89 +10 cents, 91+ 10 cents now its 12 cents extra, for worse gas!

[VisceralReaction]

Well after talking to the previous owner and hashing this out with you guys and your inputs
I think I may have figured it out.
There was a custom exhaust put on it, then the carb was reworked.
After that he put on a K&N cold air intake and didn't have the carb tuned again.
My thought is that with the cold air intake it leaned out the mix and is melting the plugs,
probably in combination with crud on the valves too. I was going to get it tuned and then
run some seafoam through the upper via the vacuum line and see where I go with it.
I was told it didn't melt plugs until he put the cold air intake on it, so that's my thought.

[Greg]

I was told it didn't melt plugs until he put the cold air intake on it, so that's my thought.

Well that certainly makes sense

[angler]

/Threadjack/

I was at a fishing industry dinner last night talking to boat manufacturers about this.  They have formed an odd coalition to fight ethanol.  Boat manufacturers hate it.  http://www.boatus.com/PressRoom/release.asp?id=457 Their coalition includes motorcycle folks, boat makers, environmental groups, and, oddly, the meat packing industry.  Enviros hate it because they think the increased use of ethanol will mean much more intensive agriculture which is bad for water quality and carbon sequestration.  The meat and food industry is against it because it will raise the price of corn thereby raising the cost of all foodstuffs.

Currently, the fight is within the EPA.  They regulate the amount that is allowed in fuel. The EPA has delayed making a decision on increasing the percentage.  EPA is investigating whether this will cause more harm than good.  Unfortunately, the pro ethanol lobby is trying to do an end run around the EPA process by sponsoring legislation to increase the percentage to 15% without the pesky need to find out what the impact of that change would be....

/Jack over/

[GAAN]

obviously doesn't apply to most of you guys

but

This Board keeps a running list of non E10/E15/E85 fuels for the Boat/ATV/Motorcycle/Snowmachine/4x4 crowd in Oregon

Could be a worthwhile addition to the local boards