It's happened again...guide(s) shot

Mr Earl · February 21, 2010, 05:54:55 PM

4,000 miles after a dealer-performed valve/guide/seal replacement, at least one of the valve guides (vertical exhaust) is shot. Haven't checked the horizontal exhaust or vertical intake yet, horizontal intake seems tight. This is really BS. I ride pretty tame, the bike gets treated really well - can't understand why this is happening.

Anyway, I've written to DNA (again - they gave me the one-finger salute when I wrote to them 4,000 miles ago) and don't hold out much hope. So I assume I'll be doing as much of this work as possible. So my questions are:

Can I pull the heads myself? (assuming yes)
What prep is needed for machining? Can I do all this myself?
Is there a source of better guides than the ones Ducati sources, both OEM and whatever crap they used for the repair work?
Is valve replacement mandatory? (Got 4 new valves 4,000 miles ago)
Please offer any recommendations/tips/etc.
Any FHE/strong recommendations for a machine shop locally here in Denver, or elsewhere?

Is the M800 motor prone to this somehow? Nothing I've read points to a systemic problem.

I have some experience with rebuilding engines and doing general auto mechanical work, and am comfortable with most aspects of wrenching. Thanks for any guidance.

ducpainter · February 21, 2010, 06:02:49 PM

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackdiamondvalves.com%2F&rct=j&q=kibble+white&ei=ZgCCS_64L4-1tgfRxdyUBw&usg=AFQjCNGt4xgdmmeOogSjxKBBtw1WNh7GMw

The kibble-white guides have a great rep.

The actual machining is pretty standard stuff. The guides are a press fit, and just the valves and seats need to be machined. Any good machine shop should be able to do it.

edit...

valve replacement is not required if they're within spec

Duck-Stew · February 21, 2010, 07:37:41 PM

This is *exactly* why I'm retrofitting 8mm valves into a DS engine... Longevity!

Armor · February 22, 2010, 07:33:24 AM

How are you determining your valve guides are shot?

Mr Earl · February 22, 2010, 01:42:49 PM

First clue was the burned oil odor when I pulled the vertical exhaust valve cover. Then, the dreaded valve wiggle. The top of the valve (with everything removed) moves like half a millimeter. I have not measured it, but it's significant.

Mr Earl · February 22, 2010, 03:59:09 PM

My Haynes manual says that removal of the vertical cylinder head (from a 750) requires the engine to be pulled. Can anyone confirm that this is necessary on an M800? Thanks, and I appreciate the info on Kibble-White guides.

ducpainter · February 22, 2010, 04:01:52 PM

Quote from: Mr Earl on February 22, 2010, 03:59:09 PM
My Haynes manual says that removal of the vertical cylinder head (from a 750) requires the engine to be pulled. Can anyone confirm that this is necessary on an M800? Thanks, and I appreciate the info on Kibble-White guides.

Conventional wisdom says you don't have to remove the motor on a monster 2V.

It may actually be easier to remove the front/upper motor mount bolt and rotate the engine forward.

That is absolutely necessary on an SS

printman · February 22, 2010, 04:04:24 PM

My 900SS '93 has to tilt the motor but it did not need to be dropped. I sent mine to the Ducshop to be reworked for a good price.

printman · February 22, 2010, 04:05:09 PM

typed that at the same time, hmmm

Duck-Stew · February 22, 2010, 04:08:37 PM

On a Monster, you will NOT have to remove the engine from the frame to get the cylinder heads off.

Mr Earl · February 22, 2010, 05:30:36 PM

Good news on the engine (not) removal, thanks.

Printman, would you be willing to say what you paid the Ducshop for the head work? Did you send them the whole heads, or did you disassemble?

BK_856er · February 22, 2010, 08:14:34 PM

At about 5k miles I had the heads replaced under warranty on my '07 M695 due to the faulty paint issue. Upon removal the dealer found that the guides were already shot. I would have never known it. One of the two new replacement heads had what the dealer recognized as "older style" valve guides - same as the ones that wore out on me. Dealer had them swapped out for "new style" guides, which required a trip to an outside machine shop. I had the 15k service done recently and the guides were all nice and tight.

BK

turbodude · February 24, 2010, 12:11:05 PM

Is 1/2mm enough to consider it a problem?? I know on my 2005 MTS 1000 I could move the top of the valve about 1/4 inch with the valve off it's seat. (You want to check with the valve off the seat). The amount of play was huge. Does the bike run rough or use oil. Mine did both..

Speeddog · February 24, 2010, 01:15:57 PM

1/4" ?

Mr Earl · February 24, 2010, 03:04:10 PM

Quote from: turbodude on February 24, 2010, 12:11:05 PM
Is 1/2mm enough to consider it a problem?? I know on my 2005 MTS 1000 I could move the top of the valve about 1/4 inch with the valve off it's seat. (You want to check with the valve off the seat). The amount of play was huge. Does the bike run rough or use oil. Mine did both..

When I searched the site the number 0.08mm came up as the "service" amount of wiggle. Mine's definitely over that. 1/4" seems really big, like there's no guide left!

The bike idles slightly rougher than I'd like, but doesn't use oil (over 3000-3500 miles between changes.) The shim clearances were a bit off, but not radically. Thing is, the valve wiggle is only going to get worse, and it's gotten this bad over only 4000 miles.

Can anyone recommend a shop that I could ship the heads to for reconditioning? I could disassemble and then ship them, or would consider paying to have the heads dis- and re-assembled. Surely this is within the experience of some board member? Thanks.

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It's happened again...guide(s) shot