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900 Stuck in gear

Started by Monsterlover, March 06, 2010, 10:38:57 AM

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Monsterlover

March 06, 2010, 10:38:57 AM Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 10:40:42 AM by Monsterlover
I fished this little chunk out of the tube/drum the shift arm works on.  It's a piece of something metal that broke off.  Any ideas what this is?

The bike locked up at a trackday, on a down shift with the clutch.  I can't get it into neutral or even between gears.  It will click up a gear, and half way back down a gear, but that's it.  I suspect it's stuck in 6th and will almost click 5th, but not quite.

Currently the bike will roll around if I pull the clutch in.  The starter won't crank it over as something is preventing the internals from rotating.

Id like to get this running so I can sell it.






"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Duck-Stew

#1
March 06, 2010, 11:25:57 AM
The broken piece looks like cast aluminum.  The shift drum is steel so it's not from that.  Don't know what it *is* from, but...

As far as the shifting goes, the shifter fork can rotate for alignment purposes.  It's possible (and kind-of looks like it from the pics) that it has rotated so that the up-shift is the only one that can happen.  Were you bangin' the crap out of the up-shifts?!?  Could've rotated the shifter fork.

If so, it's an easy fix...  Loosen the bolts that hold it to the case and then re-align it so the line on the shifter fork lines up with the center of the pin on the shift-drum.
Bike-less Portuguese immigrant enjoying life.

Speeddog

#2
March 06, 2010, 11:53:11 AM
Some more pictures with at least a complete view of the whole left side case area would help.

The 'not cranking' issue isn't a good sign.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

Duck-Stew

#3
March 06, 2010, 12:11:31 PM
Quote from: Monsterlover on March 06, 2010, 10:38:57 AM


If this is the alignment with out any pressure on the shifter lever, then it's either stuck between 2 gears, or the shifter fork has rotated.  The line in the above pic needs to be lined up w/the pin on the shifter drum.
Bike-less Portuguese immigrant enjoying life.

ducpainter

#4
March 06, 2010, 01:23:03 PM
A picture of the area where the spring and adjuster pin is located would be helpful.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Monsterlover

#5
March 06, 2010, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 06, 2010, 12:11:31 PM
If this is the alignment with out any pressure on the shifter lever, then it's either stuck between 2 gears, or the shifter fork has rotated.  The line in the above pic needs to be lined up w/the pin on the shifter drum.

I was holding pressure on the shifter to expose the ends of the arm (so I could get a pic)

More pics-







The fact that it won't crank when I pull the clutch really bothers me.  In my mind, that eliminates the trans as a variable and points toward the rotating assembly as what's jammed up.

When this happened I was coming out of a hair pin, full throttle and shifting up as I was into the straight.  It seemed like power dropped off or the revs dropped (its been a while, and it happened fast so my memory isn't the clearest) I clicked down a gear with the clutch.

It didn't seem to be right, the revs came up a lot.

I clicked back up a gear and then heard grindy-metal chunky noises.  I could coast with the clutch in but not at all with it out.  I pulled to the extreme right and just went off into the grass and waited for the crash truck.

:(
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Speeddog

#6
March 06, 2010, 03:23:22 PM
Anything on the drainplug magnet?

Probably should pull off the right side engine cover.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

Monsterlover

#7
March 06, 2010, 03:27:05 PM
I see about pulling those tomorrow and will report back.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

clubhousemotorsports

#8
March 06, 2010, 04:27:39 PM
It does look like a bit of engine casing to me, interesting the groove in the end.
it almost sounds as if you spun a rod bearing and siezed the crank, this could be the loss of power. something ( the carnage) is getting into the gearbox and locking things up. you will be digging deeper. pull the clutch out and see if the motor will turn over by hand,

how big is that chunk? hard to tell scale.
either way it is not going to be good news.

Monsterlover

#9
March 06, 2010, 04:48:27 PM
I'll get in there tomorrow and see what's up.

I haven't checked to see if that chunk is magnetic or not. It looks like it could be either steel or alum. FYI it's about 3mm. The groove was machined at the factory.

I wish I had a bore scope.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#10
March 07, 2010, 12:06:03 PM
Quote from: ducvet on March 06, 2010, 04:27:39 PM
It does look like a bit of engine casing to me, interesting the groove in the end.
it almost sounds as if you spun a rod bearing and siezed the crank, this could be the loss of power. something ( the carnage) is getting into the gearbox and locking things up. you will be digging deeper. pull the clutch out and see if the motor will turn over by hand,

how big is that chunk? hard to tell scale.
either way it is not going to be good news.

You are correct.  Not good news.

I did not pull the clutch, I was able to rotate the flywheel/stator and it does indeed move.

Until it goes clunk.

That chunk I posted a pic of is more like 6mm, and it is alum, not magnetic.

I pulled the plugs and gathered more clues. . .

Here's two shots of the front cyl plug.




I couldn't see it with my eyes, but macro mode on the camera reveals what looks a lot like alum specs on the ceramic :(

Remember I said it felt lean/down on power?  There's some evidence to support that.

What I think happened was it was running lean and I didnt fully realize it because I was whoopin ass out on the track and having fun.

I think the sudden drop in power was because the rear piston burned a hole through it, and trans locked up because chunks of piston got into gear teeth.

I think the engine is having trouble either because the rear rod is broken, or the piston is so destroyed that parts of it are somehow preventing it from moving down the bore any further.

I cannot get 360* of rotation on the flywheel.  I get a clunk, reverse direction, it turns a little and another clunk. 

There is no give at all, it just goes clunk and dead stop.

More fun pics-

Rear plug, and what I found stuck to the drain plug magnet.



Part of a ring.


That chunk I posted yesterday, I was feeling like maybe that was a piece of piston skirt.

Yes?
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

DesmoDiva

#11
March 07, 2010, 12:16:09 PM
 :'( :'(

Ouch!!

Sorry, nothing constructive to add. 
'01 ST4 Yellow
'02 ST4s Yellow

ducpainter

#12
March 07, 2010, 12:17:05 PM
Piece o piston?

Groove being the ring groove?

Make Dan an offer he cant refuse.

Sorry bro.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Monsterlover

#13
March 07, 2010, 12:18:28 PM
900ss f/s

;D
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#14
March 07, 2010, 12:19:15 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 07, 2010, 12:17:05 PM
Piece o piston?

Groove being the ring groove?

Make Dan an offer he cant refuse.

Sorry bro.

I don't think the groove on that little chunk is part of a ring groove, it's not big enough.

I've never seen a ducati piston in person so I couldn't say if it was part of the piston or engine case.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**
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