Spirited 2-up riding

[the_Journeyman]

So, I got my lean in problem sorted out.  It was 80% worn out tires and 20% not giving enough throttle to maintain/increase speed through the turn.  So, my fiancée and took a nice(fast) 110 mile ride yesterday.  She wanted me to kick it up a notch or two with her on the back, so I did.  We were really ripping along, and in several places of tight stuff (Deal's Gap tight and tighter ) I kept scrubbing the bottom of my foot, even through it was tucked in tight and back some on the peg.  I must have been just a thought from dragging the peg.

Is there a way to better my 2-up riding to minimize this?  I'm not even using all the tire, there's about 3/8 inch of unused rear tire, so I know the bike is capable of more.  We're close to 400lbs together on the bike, re-sprung front and rear, ride height up nearly an inch from stock.

I'm thinking at those lean angles, it's all body position to carry more corner speed or lean.  However, is it possible for me to move much with a passenger?  I'm shifting my shoulders and head to the inside to set up for the corner, but don't think I can move much further.

Thanks!

JM

[derby]

have you adjusted your suspension for the extra weight your passenger adds?

[the_Journeyman]

I put a little more preload on, but it's not very scientific ~

JM

[triangleforge]

Lee Parks' Total Control has a pretty good chapter on Two-Up riding & worth reading if you've got a copy (and worth buying if you don't) A couple of the things he notes: 1) the passenger's head position (and the body shift that follows it) can make a very big difference; do you know which shoulder she was looking over? (inside shoulder on turns is the right one, and would seem more natural to me). 2) Even if you boost the suspension settings, fit stiffer springs & up your tire pressure, you've still compromised ground clearance & therefore cornering speed. He recommends a full 30% speed reduction to maintain the same safety margin as one-up riding.

[Speeddog]

What year and model of monster are you riding?

<IMO, not being an ass, or telling you what to do>
As long as you're *both* comfortable with a spirited pace, continue to pursue a better 2-up setup.
Your passenger needs to fully realize the level of risk.
Even with the *best* setup, and an experienced passenger, the 30% speed reduction that was quoted is, IMO, conservative.
The dynamics associated with 2-up riding shrink the safety margin quite a bit.
</IMO, not being an ass, or telling you what to do>

<Ugly Story>
An experienced, local (non-DMF) rider was riding at a very spirited pace with a newbie pillion.
Something went wrong, and they hit a guardrail.
Pilot survived relatively unhurt, pillion died at the scene.
I don't know the pilot very well at all, but I don't think he's the same...
Pillion was a student of a piano teacher I know.
I have FHE info from another rider who had also ridden pillion with the guy, and the spirited pace was frightening.
I can't even imagine being in that rider's shoes.
</Ugly Story>

[somegirl]

My very first time on a bike was on the back of an R1...the rider honestly thought he was "taking it easy on me" by only taking it up to 120 mph.

BTW, I started a FAQ on two-up riding, please feel to contribute to it: http://ducatimonsterworldwide.org/index.php?topic=3666.0

[mstevens]

There's no way I'm ever going to push my bike to the final 3/8 inch of rear tire in turns with anyone I love riding in back.

[univox]

The tire profile on the smaller monsters tends to pinch at the edge so don't let that extra bit of un-scrubbed tire fool you, it's a poor indication of how hard you're really pushing it in my experience.

I've joked about dragging knee with my girlfriend ridding pillion, but there's no way in hell I'm going to even approach that sort of pace with her on the bike, I love her too much.

[jerryz]

3/8 '' chicken strip is your safety margin ... leave well alone  dont be a fool or kill your passenger ....you are not Casey Stoner on a MotoGP race track.

[the_Journeyman]

So, from reading here, If my fiancée wants got go faster, she's gonna need her own bike 

The bike is a 1999 M750, and it runs a 160/60 rear, 120/70 front.  She's very comfortable on the bike, looks to/over the inside shoulder etc.  I don't drag a knee solo, so I'm not going to try 2-up.  I do know we really load the bike down, so we may not be all that far over, but I've never seen video/photo when we've been really moving.  I do know the slower really tight stuff is where we're pretty quick and where we have the most fun.  I tend to not carry near as much lean or speed in fast, sweeping areas as I would solo due to the braking disadvantage riding 2-up.  Thanks for the input folks

MisInc - what kind of info were you looking for with your 2-up thread.  I'd be glad to ask my fiancée for her input on what it feels like on the back or what she does while we're carrying lots of lean & speed in the tight stuff ~

JM

[somegirl]

MisInc - what kind of info were you looking for with your 2-up thread.  I'd be glad to ask my fiancée for her input on what it feels like on the back or what she does while we're carrying lots of lean & speed in the tight stuff ~

Just additional tips for either the rider or the passenger, I'm sure I forgot some things.  Thanks!

[El Matador]

you can hang off with someone in the back, as long as the pillion is experienced. Not crazy hanging off, but just enough so that you don't have to lean the bike so much while taking corners. The pillion should only aim to keep her head looking over the inside shoulder of the turn is paramount for spirited riding.

I have done quite a bit of 2 up riding, and having a pillion that really understands the whole cornering issue is the difference between night and day. I recently came back from a riding trip in which I rode with a pillion a whole day through some pretty crazy twisty roads and enjoyed it to no end. She was an amazing pillion and honestly, she made it feel almost as if there was no one in the back. It really gave me confidence to push the bike a little more (not anywhere near as what I would by myself) but I was able to maintain a pretty brisk pace.

The only way to get the wife/gf up to that level is to actually ride with them and tell them how to improve their technique whenever they make a mistake or you are feeling that not everything is right. A good pillion will make you forget that someone is in the back.

[the_Journeyman]

The only way to get the wife/gf up to that level is to actually ride with them and tell them how to improve their technique whenever they make a mistake or you are feeling that not everything is right. A good pillion will make you forget that someone is in the back.

We do this, we talk about what's going good and what's not working at almost every stop.  The roads  we started out on were rough with bumpy pavement and we had no trouble.  The amount of body movement you're talking about is what I was wanting to know if was possible.  Thanks!  my fiancée does good as a passenger.

JM

[Ducatista]

As far as scrubbing your foot, it should be nearly impossible to scrub your foot if it is in the right place on the peg.  You need to be fully on the balls of your feet.  If anything touches at that point, it will be your peg (or your exhaust if you have low mounts) and not your foot, and then you'll have bigger problems. 

Be really careful with 2 up riding.  Make sure your pillion assumes the same position as you.  If you're more over the front, your pillion should be, too.  If your head is turned, hers should be, too.  If your torso is off the bike, hers should be, too.  If anything, she should be leaning more than you so you don't have to fight your way into the turn. 

[the_Journeyman]

Thanks Ducatista, I'll work through that on our next ride and see whats what.  Maybe I had my toe pointed funny or something.  My heels hit her toes so maybe I had my foot pushed forward or pointed down or something.

JM