The Volt gets 127MPG in real-world testing

[CairnsDuc]

One thing I find interesting, none of these car Companies want to Discuss battery life (as in years of life)
Will they last 2 years, 5 years, 10 years? and how much of a job is it to replace it? can the battery be
recycled? and the biggest question.. How much is said battery?

I sent an Email to Toyota Australia and to the Local Dealer asking the Question about Battery replacement
in the new Hybrid Camry sold here in Australia, 3 weeks later I get a letter thanking me for my query and a
nice glossy brochure and the contact details of my local dealer so I can go for a test drive.
When the Dealer contacted me I asked the same question, was promised a return call with the answer to my
Query, 2 months later and no response.

Surely someone knows the answer to this simple question?

[Porsche Monkey]

I asked the same thing with the battery in the Cayenne Hybrid.  I was told the battery is designed to last the life of the car.  They don't tell us the life expectancy of the car though.  200k? 300k? In the cayenne the battery is easy enough to replace but its not something you do yourself. The cost of the battery is over $8000US. Yes it is recyclable.

[il d00d]

Dunno if this answers the question, but hybrid components (including the battery) are warrantied to 100k - looking at the Prius forums, there are owners there with an excess of 300k miles with the original battery.
http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/warranty.html

I think the most meaningful measurement when it comes to batteries is the amount of charge cycles they can complete before they weaken or die, but that doesn't really get you to a year or mile estimate. If you want one of those, you probably won't get one from Toyota, but then you won't get one on an ICE car either?  I get what you are asking there, but I think in the case of any engine, the answer will be "it depends".

Toyota has a recycling program - evidently their goal is to get each one of the batteried back.

[mitt]

I subscribe to Home Power - a great magazine for anyone interested in Alt Energy.  It had an article about someone repairing their older prius battery pack.  Not for the novice mechanic, but definitely doable.  He tested every cell individually and 90% of the pack was still in great shape, but 10% of the cells took a dump.  He replaced those 10%, and basically got a refurbed $3000 pack for like $150 since he DIY.


mitt

[Randimus Maximus]

One thing I find interesting, none of these car Companies want to Discuss battery life (as in years of life)
Will they last 2 years, 5 years, 10 years? and how much of a job is it to replace it? can the battery be
recycled? and the biggest question.. How much is said battery?

I sent an Email to Toyota Australia and to the Local Dealer asking the Question about Battery replacement
in the new Hybrid Camry sold here in Australia, 3 weeks later I get a letter thanking me for my query and a
nice glossy brochure and the contact details of my local dealer so I can go for a test drive.
When the Dealer contacted me I asked the same question, was promised a return call with the answer to my
Query, 2 months later and no response.

Surely someone knows the answer to this simple question?

Here in the states, the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive components (including the Nickel Metal Hydride batteries) are covered under warranty for 8yrs/100K miles (10yrs/150k in Kalifornia).  Even with that amount of coverage, our replacement rate is extremely low.  As mitt mentioned, they are made of a number of cells that can be individually replaced.  Yes, we recover each battery and it is recycled.

The Volt, however, uses a Lithium Ion battery pack.  I don't have any info on it's warranty.

[Randimus Maximus]

Another thing that isn't widely talked about is the level of charge the manufacturers will use for the hybrid batteries.

Some deplete the hybrid battery lower than others and others may charge it higher.

This definitely has an positive impact on fuel economy, but more importantly, can have a negative effect on battery life.

[Monster Dave]

Or.....how long it will be until the electric companies start raising prices essentially making the cost for electric the same as for fuel.....ooooor how much more pollution will be made by electric companies while trying to supply our demands for "green" energy.



While I hopeful that it works and changes the market (I'd buy one), I just hope the same doesn't happen to the Volt as the EV1.

[il d00d]

Or.....how long it will be until the electric companies start raising prices essentially making the cost for electric the same as for fuel.....ooooor how much more pollution will be made by electric companies while trying to supply our demands for "green" energy.

I feel like the EV shill.  I'm not really.  I also feel like the only person here that owns a calculator

Energy prices would have to more than double for a plug-in EV to be as expensive to run as gas.  That assumes a scenario where electricity prices shoot up, and gasoline stays the same.

No matter how you slice it, power supplied by the grid will produce at least half as much CO2 than cars per mile traveled.

[Drjones]

After the tax credit, the Volt will be $33.5k.  No word on tax credits if any for the Leaf.

That doesn't help the argument.  It just shows how pathetic GM is that it needs to steal 16% of the car's value in public money to make it competitive.

[ducpainter]

I feel like the EV shill.  I'm not really.  I also feel like the only person here that owns a calculator

Energy prices would have to more than double for a plug-in EV to be as expensive to run as gas.  That assumes a scenario where electricity prices shoot up, and gasoline stays the same.

No matter how you slice it, power supplied by the grid will produce at least half as much CO2 than cars per mile traveled.

You used a price of .10/kwh for your comparisons.

My September bill comes to just over .19/kwh after fees, taxes, and whatever else they charge me for.

I won't be going electric any time soon.

[Monster Dave]

You used a price of .10/kwh for your comparisons.

My September bill comes to just over .19/kwh after fees, taxes, and whatever else they charge me for.

See, I agree - it's all the nickel and diming that goes one that will ultimately make it cost prohibitive for people once it hits the main stream. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see a whole new laundry list of charges added to accommodate the use.

[Triple J]

The long term goal of electric vehicles isn't that they'll be cheaper for everyone, it's that they are more environmentally friendly overall. Driving has always been, and always will be, expensive.

As with pretty much any new technology, the market is fairly limited due to high cost at first.

[Monster Dave]

The long term goal of electric vehicles isn't that they'll be cheaper for everyone, it's that they are more environmentally friendly overall.

Good Point. 

[il d00d]

That doesn't help the argument.  It just shows how pathetic GM is that it needs to steal 16% of the car's value in public money to make it competitive.

Your comment is as impartial as it is unargumentative.

You used a price of .10/kwh for your comparisons.

My September bill comes to just over .19/kwh after fees, taxes, and whatever else they charge me for.

You're in the New England area?  Looks like the average is about $.17/kwh.  You need a new provider.  How much do you pay for a gallon of gas, roughly?

If we split the difference and go with $.18/kwh
(Volt) EV cost/mile = $.036

... which is 75MPG effective cost (@$2.70/gallon)

See, I agree - it's all the nickel and diming that goes one that will ultimately make it cost prohibitive for people once it hits the main stream. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see a whole new laundry list of charges added to accommodate the use.

I don't disagree with you in sentiment - the technology needs to be vetted, and it is unclear what effect, if any it will have on our grid, prices, etc.  But, it does not personally satisfy my curiosity to come up with a lot of hypothetical reasons EVs would fail, and assume they would based on that.  So, what charges could they come up with?

[Drjones]

I feel like the EV shill.  I'm not really.  I also feel like the only person here that owns a calculator

Energy prices would have to more than double for a plug-in EV to be as expensive to run as gas.  That assumes a scenario where electricity prices shoot up, and gasoline stays the same.

No matter how you slice it, power supplied by the grid will produce at least half as much CO2 than cars per mile traveled.

No electricity prices wouldn't have to double plain and simply because electricity prices affects the cost of EVERYTHING.  When people start plugging in their EV's their gas cost will go down, but ultimately their home utility bill goes up, cost of food goes up, cost of goods go up, cost of services go up, etc.  Not immediately; maybe not even two years later, but there will be an equilibrium line that gets crossed eventually.

CO2? Who gives a shit; its a sham.  All this green malarky is all about $$$$$greeeen$$$$$