The Volt gets 127MPG in real-world testing

[il d00d]

95% of your electricity bill is from one or more of these 4 appliances - electric water heater, electric oven, electric dryer, and air conditioner.  I would not call comparing a new nightly charge routine to one of these as a compliment - it will increase your bill significantly. 

The tesla charging system requirements are what I have studied.  It requires a lot of kwh to charge.  The fastest charger requires a 90A 240V circuit for your house - that is insane.  The largest circuit in most houses is a 30A 240V for one or more of the above named energy hogs.

mitt

Fair enough.  What was the charging efficiency of the Tesla system?  Let's say it is 70% for the Volt's battery or 11.5 Kwh/charge.  A full charge every night, 30 days a month would add on $35 to my bill, or $62 to DP's.  "Significant" is relative, but I don't think people put this much thought into it when they put in a freezer, hot tub, or flood lights.

In terms of net cost, you could go up to 1200 miles on those charges, but let's call it 1000 - to go that same distance in my truck which gets on a good tank 22MPG, it would cost me $122.  Even if I got 50MPG, it would result in net savings of about $10 to pay for electric and not for gasoline.

[Randimus Maximus]

As far as the big 3 have their heads stuffed up their asses and in the sand...

that was almost 30 years ago. Many 'Mericans wouldn't look at a Japanese car then, and you'd rarely see them on the road in Detroit. Been by there lately?

I'm not suggesting they try to use the garbage GM design again. I'm talking a real purpose built efficient diesel.

I think there's a market for them now.

I agree that there's a market.

There are a lot of other factors, many of which can't be discussed on here.

However, there is a diesel refining capacity issue nationwide (that's why diesel is typically more expensive than gasoline).

[ducpainter]

I agree that there's a market.

There are a lot of other factors, many of which can't be discussed on here.

However, there is a diesel refining capacity issue nationwide (that's why diesel is typically more expensive than gasoline).

No shit....

The reason there is a refining capacity issue is that someone decided we were going to use gasoline.

If there was a more of a market for diesel the supply would be there. That same someone will want to cash in.

[Monster Dave]

Forget it....that's it.....I've had enough.....  



...all of you guys can keep debating this....but I can't.....







....tonight I'm going to burn off a few gallons of jet fuel to make myself feel better....








...but on the off shot that I feel guilty about polluting....I may break out the Vespa....

[Speeddog]

Central to the argument of cost of recharge is....

the fact that an 8 kWh battery takes more than 8kWh to recharge.
I'm skeptical of a 70% recharge efficiency for a *complete* recharge.

Also, 11.5 kWh is about 15 HP-hours.
For a slippery car, that's *maybe* one hour on the freeway at 65mph.

[Randimus Maximus]

Also, 11.5 kWh is about 15 HP-hours.
For a slippery car, that's *maybe* one hour on the freeway at 65mph.

GM says "up to 40 miles" 

[il d00d]

Central to the argument of cost of recharge is....

the fact that an 8 kWh battery takes more than 8kWh to recharge.
I'm skeptical of a 70% recharge efficiency for a *complete* recharge.

Also, 11.5 kWh is about 15 HP-hours.
For a slippery car, that's *maybe* one hour on the freeway at 65mph.

The Prius battery is designed never to go below about 40% charge for efficiency and battery life, I am guessing the Volt battery which is 16kwh operates similarly.  Are you skeptical that it can charge to the extent of its plug-in capacity at 70% efficiency or at all?

[The Architect]

It's odd, through out the world diesel cost less then gasoline but not in the US.  Hmmm, I wonder why?

I wonder is diesel prices weren't altered would diesel be more palatable in the US? 

[lethe]

It's odd, through out the world diesel cost less then gasoline but not in the US.  Hmmm, I wonder why?

I wonder is diesel prices weren't altered would diesel be more palatable in the US? 

even at the current diesel prices I'm still saving $5 a day compared to the previous car, granted the TDI is a more expensive car so it really just evens out basically.
EVs would need to get a lot better range before I could consider one and I would probably run into a battery replacement with the mileage I do. As for something like a Prius,  my car is a lot more fun and with my commute being predominately highway I'm probably getting a better daily average fuel economy number with the diesel versus a current hybrid.

[Speeddog]

The Prius battery is designed never to go below about 40% charge for efficiency and battery life, I am guessing the Volt battery which is 16kwh operates similarly.  Are you skeptical that it can charge to the extent of its plug-in capacity at 70% efficiency or at all?

I'm skeptical of a 70% efficiency on a *full* charge, IE from 40% charge to 100% charge.

It's been quite a while since I was working with some top-shelf battery guys.
At that time, they said it was quick and efficient to get a battery back up to 75% charge, but the last 25% was slow and inefficient.

[Randimus Maximus]

The Prius battery is designed never to go below about 40% charge for efficiency and battery life, I am guessing the Volt battery which is 16kwh operates similarly.  Are you skeptical that it can charge to the extent of its plug-in capacity at 70% efficiency or at all?

I'm skeptical of a 70% efficiency on a *full* charge, IE from 40% charge to 100% charge.

It's been quite a while since I was working with some top-shelf battery guys.
At that time, they said it was quick and efficient to get a battery back up to 75% charge, but the last 25% was slow and inefficient.

psssst...a Prius battery is never charged to 100%.  We stop somewhere in the 70-80% range.

[sno_duc]

How many days of the years is the outside temp 65* to 75*.
Some of us use the heater over half the year, others the A/C.
What does that do for battery life??

With an I.C.E. (other than aircooled bugs, they don't have heat  ) coolant provides "free" heat.

[Speedbag]

even at the current diesel prices I'm still saving $5 a day compared to the previous car, granted the TDI is a more expensive car so it really just evens out basically.
EVs would need to get a lot better range before I could consider one and I would probably run into a battery replacement with the mileage I do. As for something like a Prius,  my car is a lot more fun and with my commute being predominately highway I'm probably getting a better daily average fuel economy number with the diesel versus a current hybrid.

I've wondered for years why diesels as a whole don't have the same cachet here as in Europe.

To me they make more sense than hybrids.....

[Howie]

Con Ed is screwing us NYC folk at about $.38 a kilowatt with delivery and taxes.  Looking at what Road and track did with the Volt it seems like not much of a "real world" test to me, but more of an ideal commuter scenario.  A half hour 70 MPH expressway sprint would certainly reduce fuel economy quite a bit.

[mitt]

How many days of the years is the outside temp 65* to 75*.
Some of us use the heater over half the year, others the A/C.
What does that do for battery life??

That is a very important point.  My coworkers hybrid camry takes a shit when the them falls below 50F.  It has to run the engine all the time just to keep engine temps up and heater temps comfortable.

While we are at it, all the energy savings from CFL bulbs VS filament light bulbs should only be figured for summer months.  In the cooler temps, that energy loss due to i2R heating is being recycled into helping heat my house, so I don't consider it a loss.


mitt