The Volt gets 127MPG in real-world testing

[il d00d]

No electricity prices wouldn't have to double plain and simply because electricity prices affects the cost of EVERYTHING.  When people start plugging in their EV's their gas cost will go down, but ultimately their home utility bill goes up, cost of food goes up, cost of goods go up, cost of services go up, etc.  Not immediately; maybe not even two years later, but there will be an equilibrium line that gets crossed eventually.

CO2? Who gives a shit; its a sham.  All this green malarky is all about $$$$$greeeen$$$$$

Thanks!  Great talking to you! 

[Drunken Monkey]

A gentle reminder: Please, no politics.

The point about energy usage is pretty moot.

Charging your car works out to roughly the same overall power consumption as a big-ass plasma TV, but when everyone ran out and bought those nobody was terribly worried about how much that was going to tax the grid.

Plus, this is off-peak power, which is unlikely to effect prices much.

BTW: I've been looking into electric bicycles for my 10 mile commute - A DIY kit is insanely cheap both to build and operate. I guess there's a reason they're the fastest growing vehicle around the world...

[Monster Dave]

BTW: I've been looking into electric bicycles for my 10 mile commute - A DIY kit is insanely cheap both to build and operate. I guess there's a reason they're the fastest growing vehicle around the world...

10 miles!! OH COME ON.....just pedal!!!

[ducpainter]

<snip>

You're in the New England area?  Looks like the average is about $.17/kwh.  You need a new provider.  How much do you pay for a gallon of gas, roughly?

If we split the difference and go with $.18/kwh
(Volt) EV cost/mile = $.036

... which is 75MPG effective cost (@$2.70/gallon)

<snip>

I have the privilege of being a member of a Coop.

Several years ago when we were able to search out different providers not a single one wanted to sell to the customers of the coop because they were going to charge the providers outrageous line use fees effectively eliminating any cost savings. Our rates are among the highest in the nation.

The concept of choice of providers is a sham both in electric utilities and cable providers in our area anyway

The price of gas went up this week to $2.799 from $2.599

Can you get me a better deal?

[Randimus Maximus]

But there are other factors to consider.

Keep in mind the Volt only has the 30-40 mile range in EV mode.  Then it drops to 30ish MPG in CS mode.

The Leaf is EV only and has a 100 mile range (and yes, it qualifies for the $7,500 as well).

You then can add in stuff like size of the vehicle, practicality, and so on.

But realize this.

With CAFE standards increasing as they are, manufacturers are going to have to build Hybrids, Plug-in Hybrids, EVs, and so on to meet them.  You'll like start seeing smaller, more efficient vehicles on the roads soon too.

[mitt]

Charging your car works out to roughly the same overall power consumption as a big-ass plasma TV,

Sorry - have to call Bull Shit here.  That is just not true from the systems I have seen.  Please provide some data to back it up.


mitt

[ducpainter]

<snip>

With CAFE standards increasing as they are, manufacturers are going to have to build Hybrids, Plug-in Hybrids, EVs, and so on to meet them.  You'll like start seeing smaller, more efficient vehicles on the roads soon too.

Why don't they bring fuel efficient euro sized diesels?

[Porsche Monkey]

The Hybrid Cayenne I'm learning about this week is not a plug in. It can run on electric only up to 30 mph. Above that the gasoline engine starts and is coupled with the electric motor to charge the battery and drive the car. Its not a perfect system but should return at least 28mpg if driven gently. These are decent numbers for a medium sized SUV.  Compared to the gasoline Cayenne S with similar performance numbers this is an increase of 5 - 8 mpg.  I believe the base prices are very similar if not less for the Hybrid.

I only see this technology getting more efficient as time goes on.

[il d00d]

Can you get me a better deal?

No, but I can taunt you.  I am looking at electricity prices here in Texas as low as $.08/kwh 

Sorry - have to call Bull Shit here.  That is just not true from the systems I have seen.  Please provide some data to back it up.

Well, not quite.  But I think the point was that it is a relatively trivial amount of power being consumed.  If you charge every day, that's about 300kwh/mo, which is about the same as an electric water heater. 

Why don't they bring fuel efficient euro sized diesels?

I would looove to see an electric motor paired up with a diesel.   Especially this one:
http://www.ecomotors.com/technology

[ducpainter]

No, but I can taunt you.  I am looking at electricity prices here in Texas as low as $.08/kwh 

<snip>

That isn't nice.

[Makes little mark in book next to il dood's name.   ]

There's a reason our state motto is "Live, Freeze, then Die"

[LMT]

Science Friday, a radio show on NPR, did a Leaf story last week. Video here:

http://www.sciencefriday.com/videos/watch/10330

[mitt]

Well, not quite.  But I think the point was that it is a relatively trivial amount of power being consumed.  If you charge every day, that's about 300kwh/mo, which is about the same as an electric water heater. 

95% of your electricity bill is from one or more of these 4 appliances - electric water heater, electric oven, electric dryer, and air conditioner.  I would not call comparing a new nightly charge routine to one of these as a compliment - it will increase your bill significantly. 

The tesla charging system requirements are what I have studied.  It requires a lot of kwh to charge.  The fastest charger requires a 90A 240V circuit for your house - that is insane.  The largest circuit in most houses is a 30A 240V for one or more of the above named energy hogs.

mitt

[The Architect]

The price of gas went up this week to $2.799 from $2.599

Just as the leaf peepers started coming up.  Hmmm?

Why don't they bring fuel efficient euro sized diesels?

They don't necessarily need to be small.  The UK Mazda 6 diesel version gets 54 mpg.  The BMW 335 diesel get over 36 mpg with over 400 ft-lbs of torque. 

What is the prius getting?  45 mpg?  Who wants to drive that thing?  Not to mention having to deal with a motor and an engine.

[Randimus Maximus]

Why don't they bring fuel efficient euro sized diesels?

Certainly you remember the diesels sold here in the '80s.  Lots of other 'Mericans do too.

I would looove to see an electric motor paired up with a diesel.   Especially this one:
http://www.ecomotors.com/technology

Actually, the reason you don't see that is because the two technologies don't work well together.

Diesels = low end torque, with relatively low hp and low rpms.

Electric motors = torque, with relatively low hp, but with a broader range of rpms.

The Hybrid Cayenne I'm learning about this week is not a plug in. It can run on electric only up to 30 mph. Above that the gasoline engine starts and is coupled with the electric motor to charge the battery and drive the car. Its not a perfect system but should return at least 28mpg if driven gently. These are decent numbers for a medium sized SUV.  Compared to the gasoline Cayenne S with similar performance numbers this is an increase of 5 - 8 mpg.  I believe the base prices are very similar if not less for the Hybrid.

I only see this technology getting more efficient as time goes on.

+1  Look at the Toyota systems.  Each subsequent generation of the Prius has gotten larger and more powerful yet with better fuel economy.

[ducpainter]

Certainly you remember the diesels sold here in the '80s.  Lots of other 'Mericans do too.

<snip>

As far as the big 3 have their heads stuffed up their asses and in the sand...

that was almost 30 years ago. Many 'Mericans wouldn't look at a Japanese car then, and you'd rarely see them on the road in Detroit. Been by there lately?

I'm not suggesting they try to use the garbage GM design again. I'm talking a real purpose built efficient diesel.

I think there's a market for them now.