some internal engine part questions / engine rebuilding general

[junior varsity]

To be less confusing, the 900W is the fixer-upper 1999 Monster and corresponding engine. The "02-900" motor is a parts-motor from a crashed 2002 SS 900ie. The 900V is my original Monster 900, confusingly also a 1999. Just like I like it.   Moving right along:

Got the 900W engine a bit further apart with some spare time.   Waiting on some parts to come in. I will be putting on one of the VeeTwo lightweight primary kits - so I'll be putting new bearings and seals in the kits driven gear.   Three related questions:

1. Why would the clutch hub 'stick' on the splines and be a real huge pain in my ass to remove?
2. Why would the driven gear's spacer-bush (the one with the o-ring in it) also be ridiculously hard to remove?

Neither hubs were this much of a pregnant dog on the 02 900ie parts motor, or the '99 m900 motor in my bike.
The spacer/bush was not a chore on the 02 900ie parts motor either (haven't ever removed it on my '99 m900). I just grabbed it with a wrench and pulled - off it came.

I suppose everyone loves pictures - so here's a shot of the 'splines' I'm talking about.



3. Back on lightened gears - I'm considering / leaning-towards sending my timing gear and sprag gear to Fast Frank Racing to be lightened. Can anybody share with me their experiences with lightened gears? (Specifically those two).

Picture o' the other side of the motor with a timing gear. Which brings up another round of questions:



I do not recall seeing bolts like the two below the shifter mechanism would mount before. I've seen them in pictures of other Duc engines - but they were older bikes - like the earlier small charging system bikes.   Here's a closeup:



When compared to the 02-900 ie engine (now in pieces on the shelf, this is an old picture) what I want to know regarding the motor in question is - where is the red bolt? Should there not be one? Why this 900W is there a giant looking plug taking up what looks like normal oil flow passage on the 02-900 engine

02-900 engine for comparison - notice red bolt and open passage way.


Kind of along the same lines - the 900W motor's cylinders had gold colored "plugs" in them - almost looked like press-fit blockoffs in case they made these into ST2 cylinders, which are not present on the 02-900 cylinders. Is that what they are? If no, wtf are they and why not present on the 02-900?   For reference - 02-900 vertical cylinder: Here be no plugs:




Next few questions are a bit more general, paint and ti-bolts:

Paint: The heads are pretty dingy from the 02-900 that are going on to the bike. I was considering painting them. The powdercoater had examples of powdercoated heads sitting there to stare at today as well. Hadn't considered that. Thoughts/Opinions?

Paint 2: Same thing but for painting/powdercoating the cylinders. I've got some down time, as I plan on getting the piston domes machined to enlarge the valve reliefs since the V2 -210 grind spec sheet calls for such.

Ti Bolts: While I'm looking at the 900W motor, I can't help but stare at the crankcase-jointing bolts. I even made a list of them gathered from the Workshop Manual I have, and verified it was the same with the bag of the same bolts I removed from the 02-900 when I split the cases recently.   There are two sizes M8 bolts - long and longer, and two sizes of M6 bolts - long and short.   They are all Grade 8.8 steel - I've contemplated sourcing in the future, the necessary replacements for these bolts in Titanium for the M900V - my Monster.  I can't think of any reason why Ti couldn't be used here, but perhaps I'm mis-thinking this, and something to do with heat, expansion, this or that, should be higher in my list of considerations.   Let me know what you think.

Everybody likes pictures - so here's a few shots of other things sitting around the garage for this bike, some are mild, some are wild:





And while I'm at it, the other two in the stable, in various states of disassembly since I have little time and less money at this moment:

[junior varsity]

So in sum:

why sticking on splines? i didn't see any burrs, not sure what to be focused on.

why no red bolt?   what's that big plug-lookin' bolt?

cylinder 'plugs' - info on this?

getting pistons' valve-reliefs enlarged - anybody done this? got advice?

painting cylinders - painting heads - powdercoating?

ti bolts for case jointing?



That's what I've got for today. I'll think of some more tomorrow, I'm sure.

[brad black]

So in sum:

why sticking on splines? i didn't see any burrs, not sure what to be focused on.

why no red bolt?   what's that big plug-lookin' bolt?

cylinder 'plugs' - info on this?

getting pistons' valve-reliefs enlarged - anybody done this? got advice?

painting cylinders - painting heads - powdercoating?

ti bolts for case jointing?



That's what I've got for today. I'll think of some more tomorrow, I'm sure.

in order

some gears and that o-ringed bush are bastards to get off.  just the way it is.  pull harder.  generally hard enough to hurt yourself.

red bolt is drilled on the other end to supply oil to lh case piston cooling jets from rh case oil passages.  sometimes it is black, spec'd as single use only, lower torque than others, varying in expense i've found.  first in 916SP, fitted to all later (3 phase alt?) cases even when the manual didn't mention it, generally these have the oil pressure relief valve in the oil pump cover.  big plug on earlier motor is for oil pressure relief valve before they put it in the pump cover.  under it is the big spring and the plunger valve which lets oil flow from a hole in the face of the rh case.

pre '98 900 motors have oil filled cylinders to cool them, with the two oil lines from cylinder to alt cover on the lh side as the obvious clue (some were internal in 98?).  brass plugs seal the casting holes for the oil cavities, like the st2's water jacket.  same shit pretty much.  later cylinders are air cooled only.  look at the base of the fins - early motor cylinder has much larger central round section

i use a well known predomninantly v8 race car, sprint car, etc engine shop to do my valve reliefs.  just find one you trust and tell them what you want, they should be able to do it.

painting - no real idea.  don't want to restrict heat transfer too much.

ti bolts - no idea.

[ducpainter]

I'd avoid powder on engine parts like cylinders and heads. Typically it's applied too thick and can actually insulate.

[junior varsity]

gotcha

[junior varsity]

will investigate / stock up on VHT supplies and do as much reading as possible before diving in.

[junior varsity]

Back on pistons/cylinders/heads & the combustion chamber:   I'm into things I have little-to-no experience with.

So, the OEM cylinders for this motor (900W) and the 02-900 parts-motor are in "good shape".  The 900W's pistons had almost no carbon build-up on them, which I thought was strange period, but highly suspect for a motor with supposedly 20k mi on the odometer.   One piston has the obvious large gouge from an exhaust valve impact at some point. Don't really want to reuse these pistons with such a defect on one.

The 02-900's motor had really dirty piston crowns and cylinder heads' combustion chamber faces.  Really thick, chunky carbon build-up. A scrubbing with a wire brush and lots of carb cleaner revealed nice gouge-free surfaces on both, though they look a bit like they've been hit with a bit of fine sandpaper... ? Its not machine marks from the original machining of the pistons I'm talking about, those are kind of hidden behind or blended with a bit of very light "smoothing" or "gentle sanding". Is this still usable? I'm not trying to win any dyno contests, but i do want to put it together and have it in running order for a few years...  Is it usable if I try to carefully 'hide' the sanding marks by lightly polishing them?

Likewise, I see that I cannot simply order new piston rings from Ducati. It seems they are not available separately from my brief investigation - not that it mattered - they were priced almost as much as a set of JE's for the Ducati rings alone, and the JE's obviously come with rings. (and have easy to get replacement rings).   It appears now that the rings cannot be obtained separate now, and required the pistons as well, and most recently I looked and it appeared they came with cylinders too. wtf.

At this point, I'm considering ordering standard 92mm bore JE pistons and rendering the oem piston questions a bit moot, but would love to know the answers.

Pistons/Rings - Its all new to me. I've read articles on installing pistons by first checking the fitment of the rings in the cylinder for ring-end gap. Then the article said to install the 3-piece oil rings, 2nd ring and finally top ring. Makes me assume they did this in this order because they were installing from the piston crown side. How might one get the ring around the piston's crown while making sure not to scratch or gouge the hell out of any edges and not damage a ring?

More on Piston Rings - I've read instances where folks have broken a piston ring while installing it or perhaps reinstalling it - speaking of which, if you were to install the rings and do all your measuring, can you remove them? Or is it a "once they go on, that's it; if they are removed, they must be discarded and replaced" kind of situation?

I am considering making sure everything is "right", and then having the applying the thermal barrier coatings to the piston crowns and valve faces coated via SwainTech or any of the other myriad internal engine performance coating shops.  As far as assembly goes, I did get a piston ring compressor from Nichols. The green one for 92mm pistons. Works very well on allowing me to compress the rings on the OEM pistons with just two or so fingers, while guiding the piston into a cylinder - I "practiced" with the 900W engine's cylinders and pistons. Still don't know how one would get rings around the crown and into their respective channels without damaging the piston - not sure how you would "spread them" correctly.

Pistons & Cams: Still trying to "solve" the puzzle of the top-end on this motor.   Using those 210 cams, I see I'll need to machine the piston's intake-valve relief pocket by +1.25mm, because the lift is 13.1mm - around 1.3mm greater than the OEM intake lift of 11.8mm.   It also indicates "1.00mm off the radius", which I am reading to mean the pistons' intake-valve relief pockets must be enlarged in diameter as well, yes?

Squish, Piston-Head Clearance, Valve-Piston Clearance
So, if I understand next step correctly: From here, I would install pistons on rods and into cylinders, apply various thicknesses of wax to the crown, and install the head, turn crank to cause wax-transfer. The remove the head and see what transfered to find clearance between piston and head - which will determine the correct base-gasket thickness (0.4 is stock, so if too little clearance, I could go up a size, though doing so would also slightly lessen the compression ratio, yes?).

With the correct base-gasket installed, and wax placed in the piston's valve relief pockets, reinstall the heads, and set all the related timing: valves shimmed, and Belts/Cams/Pulleys.  Then disassemble and see what sizes of wax left marks/transferred. If too small of clearance, I could either do a yet-thicker base gasket, or disassemble everything remove heads and cylinders, and the pistons so that the pistons' pockets could be machined larger.

I think I have that straight, but would really love feedback as to whether that part of the plan would be correct.

"Purpose Built Pistons" - Now, I have contemplated an alternative, which may remove a bit of the last step - please give feedback here too:  Have a set of JE Pistons made with the deeper/bigger intake-valve relief pockets --> That would likely give a correct piston-valve clearance measurement during testing, with the machine work done preemptively - with a possibility of removing the requirement of having to disassemble to have them machined further after the fact. Seems like at that point, if it was still too close, it would only be slightly, and so the remainder could be taken up with the base gasket size.   Additionally, the pre-machined deeper pockets would also lessen the compression ratio of the JE Pistons slightly, which I find a bit high at 11.5:1 (compared to Pistal's 10.8:1, and Ferracci's 11.1:1 "street" pistons) - If it was lessened slightly, it seems like I may be able to easily mitigate the detonation problems I read about in Brad's findings by either moving the flywheel timing pickups and/or using an ignitech, coupled with the high octane pump gas. 

How do my thoughts read on that last idea? Getting the pistons done up initially with the deeper pockets, still doing all the squish checking/setting, but potentially preemptively eliminating additional machine work to the pistons... ?  Ordering up pistons would also get me fresh rings and such, and using a 92mm bore, I don't think I'd need to do anything to the cylinder... I have read that you just run a hone through it and you'd be good to go, but again: I'm a major-component-build Newb, so please enlighten me.

I need to take an engine-building basics course that covers valve/cam timing, crank building/assembly, crank/gearbox shimming, pistons/cylinders and the nuances of mating the two, valves: guides, seals, seats, lapping, etc.   Somebody teach this, I'll enroll promptly. I'd prefer a 50/50 books (with pictures!) and hands-on practical lessons ratio.

[koko64]

G'day j v
There are reasonable options there, and you have thought it through.

I don't see why a good machine shop couldn't finish the JE pistons' valve pockets for you and skim the crown while they were at it to get the compression down. My JE pistons with stock carb cams advanced 7 deg make about 180 psi cylinder pressure. With the ignition retarded 2-3 degrees at the pick ups and 98 RON fuel there is no pinging. I must say that the Igniteck is versatile and makes for much easier starting if you are running FCRs. I am currently using 34 deg max advance from 6000 rpm with the igniteck. At least with the Igniteck you don't have to open the timing case.

The 900 ie cams wouldn't require piston machining to use. If you are committed to using the Vee Two cams you can sell me the ie cams (seriously).

I'm sure Brad has some words of advice.

Cheers

[junior varsity]

apparently the JE pistons in the 'off-the-shelf' form would be too thin once machined down the required 1.25mm on the intake pocket - that's the word i got back from JE engineering dept.

Based on my understanding/reading on the different cam grinds, I'm a bit hell bent on the vee two -210 cams in this motor because they are designed for the long intake manifolds, while the IE cams are for short manifolds such as those on the 900IE. The carbs I have for the bike (FCR 41's) are banked - so long manifolds it is unless I want to get split singles and short manifolds --> I have a set of Jako Motorsport short manifolds, but would still need to buy a set of carbs ($$$) ...And in that case, I'd want use the VeeTwo -212 cams I've got on the shelf, and like the IE cams are also designed for short manifolds, but like the VeeTwo -210 cams, will ALSO require the pistons' intake relief pockets to be machined 1.25mm deeper. 

Found myself in a pickle, perhaps.
My goals for the motor are "street-able" performance (think "hooligan grocery getter"), won't require a rebuild in short time, and not to go nuts with costs. I'd also like to ride the completed bike by the end of the year if at all possible, with a high preference to the motor being "finished" by mid-June.

I thought if I brainstormed the options with this motor, with budget, street-able performance, and reliability to be kept up front, I might discover easier or more straightforward solutions - or at least uncover the trouble areas.  With this motor and the pile of parts I have, it seems like the options I have identified are:

a) Leave the junk pistons in there, put the "W" heads with 41/35 valves and the 600/750 cams back on, long manifolds, and banked FCR 41's.  End result would be an underwhelming 900 with carbs almost certainly sized to big for the valves & cams, and old pistons/rings.  Cheapest option.

b) Leave the junk pistons in there, put the "V" heads on with 43/38 valves, and the 600/750 cams in those heads, long manifolds and banked FCR 41's. Would still be an underwhelming 900, but the carbs might behave better with the bigger valves, but still have the incredibly mild cams & old pistons/rings. Tied for Cheapest option.

c) Leave the junk pistons in there, put the "V" heads on with the 43/38 valves, and the 900 IE cams, with long manifolds and banked FCR 41s. If it could be sorted out, using the IE cams and long manifolds, this seems like a pretty good option, except for the old pistons/rings. Its also tied for Cheapest option.  Could even do a 92mm JE high comp directly in here if it IS possible to get the carbs to run right, and be rid of the old pistons/rings, and on the cheap too.

d) Leave the junk pistons in there, put the "V" heads on with the 43/38 valves, and set out to find/purchase a set of 900 carbie cams, which are designed for long intake manifolds and would be correct for the banked FCR 41's.  This isn't the cheapest option since it requires purchasing cams, and the end result would be like a 'used' / cobbled-together version of the motor in my M900, BUT everything would "work together".   Leaves a set of -210 cams and 900 IE cams unused on the shelf, old/used pistons in the motor, and a luke-warm performer on paper. Adding to the cost would/could be a set of 92mm JE pistons to replace the old pistons/rings, and eliminate that potential trouble area.

e) Use the "V" heads, and install the VeeTwo -210 cams and related valves with the long manifolds and banked FCR 41's (they are designed for the long manifolds so says the bulletin, and I already have all of these parts). This seems to require the pistons to be machined 1.25mm - the old, junk pistons... OR have some JE pistons made with the inlet pockets deeper from the start. Have a 'great' (relative) performer, with new pistons, cams, valves, etc.  The only extra cost I see with this is the obvious purchase of pistons.

d) Use the "V" heads and 43/38 valves, 900 IE cams, reuse junk pistons, and get a set of short manifolds and split single carbs. Performance would be 'high', but reliability / maintenance concerns would go up as well - with the individual carbs, and the old pistons/rings would be left in the motor. Cost is high.

e) Use the "V" heads, install the VeeTwo -212 cams and valves, and have to get split singles / short manifolds, and have to machine the pistons if reusing the old junkers, or obtain purpose built pistons.  Cost is VERY high and might as well get the built pistons in 94mm or 95mm, and big bore the sucker while I'm at it. Then the crank would need balancing, and might as well lighten it at the same time, and can't forget some stronger rods! That's well over budget for this motor, and really doesn't sound all that 'street-able' in the "grocery getter" frame of mind.


That said, Koko64, you can have dibs on the IE cams once I get some forward progress on the bike and am "certain" I won't be using them.

[koko64]

That's an Aladdin's cave of juicy parts you've got there!
Looking at those options as you see them, definitely option (e. You pretty much have everything.

Then there's only the choice whether to use the stock or custom JE pistons with the necessary machining. Even the stock pistons with Vee Two cams and FCRs would make a peppy street runner. Mind you, JE pistons are a great price. I'd go for a 944 kit tomorrow if it wasn't for the expense of re-boring and re-plating the barrels. Did they have a good price on special pistons?

One other thing, I think there is also the need for special collets or shims, longer valve stems or machined collet grooves with some of the Vee Two cams. Brad has dealt with these issues, you would have to ask him or one of the other board mechanics.

I think Brad once told me that the IE cams are too much with the long manifolds. I'll have to ask him if he meant certain rpm cylinder pressure, or valve overlap, etc; I can't remember. I was planning to use them in my bike to see what would happen. I would also like to do an MBP type head set up one day. Those IE cams give you the cheapest option. If the problem is too high cylinder pressure at a certain rpm, then an Igniteck (and 98 RON) will give the ignition timing flexibility to rectify this. If on the other hand the IE cams are too big or hot for the long manifold engine, then maybe it's a trade off in bottom end or mid range weakness. That would be annoying in a street motor. If anyone can say what the issue is, or had FHE, it could clarify whether you can use these cams. MBP reckon these cams are worth 6hp on a ported, big valve, 944/964, short manifold motor. You could test them in a long manifold motor. I wonder if you could make the IE cams work with adjustable pulleys and the right timing adjustment?

Can't help but ogle the Vee Two timing gears, the reduction of rotating mass gets me excited.

[junior varsity]

I know, lots of parts (and in case I forget, my wife reminds me regularly). Gotta get the remaining parts and all the knowledge to make some of the work nicely together.

The VeeTwo cams (210 and 212 both) say they require longer intake valves because of their 1.25-1.35mm additional lift.  When I got the cams originally, I made sure to get the longer-stemmed intake valves to hopefully prevent needing any odd shims. When I got the cams and intake valves, I also picked up the exhaust valves so they'd be changed at the same time.

Speaking of valves... I do not know what I need to do to put these new valves into the heads correctly (beyond dropping them into the appropriate hole in the head and shimming them).  I do not know whether this requires me, or at least means I should, "lap the valves", replace or recut valve seats and/or valve guides.  All a big gray IZ_ to me.

After a bit of sleep deprivation and some hungriness going on, I've decided to lean towards the following setup, and will begin asking more direct questions related to this "plan" (and still welcome any and all suggestions, advice, criticisms/critiques, things to avoid, and things to remember).   

Here's the current tentative planned setup:

banked carbs/ long manifolds / V-series heads / VeeTwo -210 Torque Cams & related valves / original cylinders / proper designed pistons

What I've got:
- This Motor's Crankcases, cranks, rods, and all other things internal (not splitting the cases)
- This Motor's original Cylinders (92mm bore with cross hatch clearly visible, no gouges, very clean) (not going to reuse original pistons though)
- OEM Long intake manifolds (and OEM exhaust manifolds for that matter)
- Banked Keihin FCR 41 carbs
- "V" Series heads from 02-900ie Motor
- VeeTwo -210 "Torque" Cams
- VeeTwo 43/38 valves (with longer stem on intake valves)
- MBP collets
- Fresh seals, valve gaskets, base gaskets, etc all around

What I've not got (yet):
- Aftermarket pistons with bigger/deeper valve pockets (intake valve relief pocket +1.25mm/+1.00mm), and perhaps a modest increase in compression.
- Squish wax for checking piston-head clearance to choose base gasket thickness, and for checking piston-valve clearance

Not sure what I'm missing at this point.  I can't possibly have thought of everything.  Had considered replacing cylinder studs, but these are the later generation, updated ones, and I have only read about the early ones breaking when highly modified.

The "W" heads, cams, valves, original pistons will go on the parts shelves. The 02-900ie cams, valves, cylinders and pistons will remain on the shelves. 

Pistons
On the pistons, rather than machine what I've got and reuse the old pistons and rings, I thought I'd "decide" on new pistons in the same bore size (92mm), which should give me a good seal with the new rings with only a hone to the cylinder.  That's what I was thinking at least... Lay your opinions on the matter on me!

As far as the modest increase in compression:  OEM is 9.5:1, Pistal HC is 10.8:1, Ferracci "Street" is 11.1:1, and JE is 11.5:1.  I thought I might shoot for somewhere between 10.5:1-11.0:1 and that the Pistal's 10.8:1 seems kind of ideal because its not "too high", and from there see if that can run on pump gas via straightforward ignition timing adjustments (either at pickups, or getting an Ignitech unit).  I suppose even if I was 'wrong' and it is too high compression, I could use a thicker base gasket to reduce compression?

Assembly Process
For installing, I'll need to assemble the heads and make sure there's enough clearance during valve overlap.  Later on, put down an initial base gasket on the crankcases, and lube the sides of and install the pistons into the cylinders, and install to the conrods/crankcase. Put waxes on piston crown and install the head for checking piston/head clearance - turn crank so piston goes to TDC and take it all apart again to check what sizes transferred marks, and to make changes to base gasket if necessary.

Once the base gasket is sorted out, the piston's valve pockets get the clay strips, and the head installed with belts and the timing set correctly, turn the crank to move piston and valves - transferring wax marks to valves to show clearance. If there's not enough, then I've boogered up the piston-designing process, and can either pull the pistons and have them machined a bit, or toss in a bigger base gasket (though that would lower compression ratio more I believe, though maybe not a bad thing)

Some gray areas during assembly, I think I've noted throughout but to reiterate concisely, are:
-  Replacing the valves with same size (diameter) --> Anything required or advised here?

- When 'mock' assembling the motor with wax for getting correct thickness base gaskets, or checking piston/valve clearance, do I need the rings installed, or can I leave them off until I know its all 'good' for "The Final Assembly"?  If I put them on the piston (by the way, how does one do this correctly to avoid scratching/marring the piston or overly stretching/breaking a piston ring?) If they need to be "on", can they be "removed" to be reinstalled if I need to send the pistons off to be machined (because I'll likely want to follow up the machining with a thermal coating to have them thoroughly "done" up).

- If I am right about only needing to hone the cylinder for a new set of pistons/rings, should I hold off on doing this until it would immediately precede "The Final Assembly"? Or do it upfront, or its not really important so long as you do it, or you don't need to do this at all?

- What else do I need reminding of, or a lesson in, or should go research?

[junior varsity]

hoping to get some engine-building 101 info i have missed, as well as whether the tentative plan is sound.

but...

Can't help but ogle the Vee Two timing gears, the reduction of rotating mass gets me excited.

The lighter spinning parts list includes:
Sprag Gear - Lightened by Fast Frank Racing;
Layshaft Timing Gear - Lightened by Fast Frank Racing;
DP lightweight layshaft pulleys;
VeeTwo lightweight adjustable cam pulleys;
VeeTwo lightweight primary gear kit (hunting tooth ratio) (primary gear pair: crankshaft & driven plus lightweight oil pump gear);
and replaced the worn out steel basket with an old aluminum Nichols MFG clutch basket and aluminum clutch pack.

Going to sort the motor's "main components" before doing any other "fun things"

[koko64]

With the engine mods to the heads, and light weight internals below, that thing should spin up!

[monsta]

g'day jv..
you n me must think alike!
I have been down the path you going and mulled over the things you are.
Same as you I'm nopro engine builder, but fortunately, I know some knowledgable people that have steered me.
I have the early 900 engine with V heads. 984 kit, 210 cams, ported heads, long manifolds and 41mm flat side carbs.

I'll give my opinion on what UI can but typing is not my favorite part of this forum and yours is a big post with lots of questions!!
From what you say, I reckon your on the right path but pro builders are better to answer assembly questions, but I did lots of assembly and disassembly to get the squish-valve piston measurements right.
I found that I didn't have to machine the pockets on my pistons. The pistons came with the DP big bore kit so I dont know who made them. But from what I'm told, a lot of the hi-comp pistons are machined to allow for higher lift valves. You will have to machine the standard pistons tho, if you use em.
You will have to lap in the new valves, but thats not a difficult job. I found I couldn't put in bigger valves with the 210's because of valve overlap clearences.

I powdercaoted the cases but I have the heads and barrels coated with a heat dispering coating that'll resist the higher temps.

the red bolt allows the oil to go to the other side of the engine to feed the underpiston cooling jet. as it is, the rear piston only see's the oil jet for 180deg because the crank wheel blocks it. Getiing oil to the other side allow's it to see 360deg (see my rebuild thread for more detailed explantion)

Like you I also have the veetwo primary gears (fitted only about a month ago), cam pulleys ect....   a lot of similarities...   

[Punx Clever]

Off topic, but monsta, I swear, I can hear the aussie accent as I read your posts... it's crazy!