What's wrong with the GP11?

[zooom]

You're saying the flexibility in the/a MotoGP trellis frame can be tuned as finely as, say, a designed spar?

I think so...they used to sorta do it legally within the rules of SBK before FIM/DORNA clamped down on the "frame" specifics in the rules....

[zarn02]

You're saying the flexibility in the/a MotoGP trellis frame can be tuned as finely as, say, a designed spar?

There were rider complaints that the bikes never felt the same, even when all the settings were identical. Minute differences between frames could have been part of that.

Of course, riders saying no two bikes feel the same, even with identical specs, is hardly limited to those with steel trellis frames.

The 990 Ducatis had trellis frames, and as zooom points out, the reason for moving away from it was to gain a larger airbox.

[gm2]

building a twin-spar aluminum frame, which they have no experience with?

read the article.  that's why they themselves aren't building it.

[Raux]

To me, make a Al, steel or Ti trellis  with a monoque skin that doubles as the airbox
you  coudl make it larger and stay witha proven material

[zarn02]

Does the FIM allow titanium as a frame material?

[ducatiz]

Titanium is actually too soft to use.  It has to be alloyed with aluminum or steel and then you probably still have issued.

I just don't get the airbox bullshit.  Seems to me they could have redesigned the original frame to permit air intakes elsewhere or have a secondary airbox.  I dunno.  I have NEVER though CF would work well as a frame.  I know that AirBus uses it with pretty good results but even they don't use it for the main airframe.

[Drjones]

Too "soft" to use as in for trellis frame is what I'm assuming the meaning was.  Then not so much "soft" than "flexible" since it's E is about half that of steel and about 60% higher than aluminum.  Then there is also the issues of Ti being brittle and costly.  It is difficult to bend Ti tubulars without cracking it.

[Raux]

How hard to cast or forge ti
with the new frame style that would be the way to male it

[Drjones]

They aren't my area of experience, but typically you have a more porous material in the as cast condition which would make things worse.  With forgings I can only guess that the NRE costs of the dies would probably make it too cost prohibitive.

[thought]

now that everyone seems to say that it's cf's feedback that riders cant understand as they learned to ride on twin spar or trellis frames, will having the new 1199 frameless design in wide circulation be able to teach the next gen/current gen riders how to understand what the new frames are telling them?

and i know that the 1199 for the most part will be al, but i'm sure that cf testing on the new bike will keep going on.

[Raux]

i think they say CF dampens the feedback.
which is one of the reasons some bike riders (pedalpower) use them for forks.
the resonance factor could be the issue.
really can't tune that back into that material from what I know (which isn't much)
you can adjust it's stiffness, but it's still going to dampen the feedback.

one of the things talked about with vyrus/tesi front suspension as well, too much dampening/isolation for the rider-front feedback.

[zarn02]

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ducati-desmosedici-gp12-evo-mugello-test/

[duccarlos]

Wouldn't it b easier to buy a Yamaha and switch the engines?

[Spidey]

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a Yamaha and switch to Honda engines?

Fixed.

[gm2]

Fixed.

power (still) isn't ducati's problem.  and since they have no experience building twin spar, they farmed the job out.  we'll see.