EV Charging Station Costs

[Randimus Maximus]

Yeah, the Volvo model is, but I don't see why that makes a difference -- they specifically tout the highway abilities of the 215hp diesel motor.  <snip>

Huh?

If a vehicle can run on electric only for 30+ miles, you'd see a huge increase in net MPG.  And for many drivers, that amount of range will either get them to their destination or to the highway where most vehicles get better fuel economy since the engine is closer to, or in, it's optimum operating range.

[muskrat]

the way people drive now, here in Dallas at least, means no one will ever see 40+ mpg's. 

[krolik]

A diesel hybrid doesn't make much sense in a passenger car/light truck application yet. 

If you take a look at a Ford or Toyota hybrid system (full hybrid) the electric motors (high torque) get the vehicle moving and then the gas engine (lower torque/higher horsepower) takes over.  The electric motors provide boosts when needed, such as for passing.

A diesel is low rpm/high torque, so it's really difficult to make that work with the conventional hybrids we have today.

If you're thinking along the lines of running the diesel as a generator (as they do in a locomotive) that would be a different story.

Hybrids also recapture some energy that is lost in a conventional vehicle. Such as regenerative braking and charging the batteries during idling when stopped.

[ducatiz]

Huh?

If a vehicle can run on electric only for 30+ miles, you'd see a huge increase in net MPG.  And for many drivers, that amount of range will either get them to their destination or to the highway where most vehicles get better fuel economy since the engine is closer to, or in, it's optimum operating range.

Not sure what you meant.  I understand how a pure hybrid and a plug-in hybrid are different, but I thought the plug in was just the same thing with the added ability to charge the batteries when parked.

[caperix]

I always liked top gears view of the Prius


Mass transit is still the best solution to the carbon footprint problem.  Though it is only available in larger cities.  Personally I would love to see electric motorcycle's if they were allowed the same parking privileges of a scooter but could keep up with highway speed traffic.  Give me a TTX GP bike at a 10K price & let me park on the sidewalk & that would be my next bike.

[Duc Buz]

capirex: Give me a TTX GP bike at a 10K price & let me park on the sidewalk & that would be my next bike.

[He Man]

how do they calculate 30 miles? straight driving? mixed or heavy traffic?

because if its 30 miles of straight driving, then you're not going to get a 1/3rd of that in heavy traffic. which means the damn thing is useless anyway.

I am pulling this number out of my ass, but i think its safe to say a good 50% of the gas in the world that is used in automobiles is wasted idling because of traffic.

There was a day in NYC where a HUGE chunk of taxi drivers went on strike, there was absolutely NO traffic that day. WIth an esitmated 13,000 cabs in the city and a rough estimate of 80% of them not showing up for work, i was baffled on how little traffic there was, that all meant less fuel spent stuck in traffic.

[Howie]

how do they calculate 30 miles? straight driving? mixed or heavy traffic?

because if its 30 miles of straight driving, then you're not going to get a 1/3rd of that in heavy traffic. which means the damn thing is useless anyway.

I am pulling this number out of my ass, but i think its safe to say a good 50% of the gas in the world that is used in automobiles is wasted idling because of traffic.

There was a day in NYC where a HUGE chunk of taxi drivers went on strike, there was absolutely NO traffic that day. WIth an esitmated 13,000 cabs in the city and a rough estimate of 80% of them not showing up for work, i was baffled on how little traffic there was, that all meant less fuel spent stuck in traffic.

Since no electricity is used to power the car when not in motion traffic only the power consumed by lights, radio etc. come into play.

[ducatiz]

Since no electricity is used to power the car when not in motion traffic only the power consumed by lights, radio etc. come into play.

I imagine these cars won't be popular in places that are hot where air conditioning is required.

[He Man]

Since no electricity is used to power the car when not in motion traffic only the power consumed by lights, radio etc. come into play.

But isnt more electricity used to get the car moving from dead stop? The motor needs a higher demand to initally start spinning. You keep doing that to go 2 feet. and im sure the drain is going to be much higher than advertised.

[ducatiz]

But isnt more electricity used to get the car moving from dead stop? The motor needs a higher demand to initally start spinning. You keep doing that to go 2 feet. and im sure the drain is going to be much higher than advertised.

...and then add a 90 deg summer day to the mix...

[Drjones]

The environmental impact of fracking (drilling holes in the ground to extract petroleum, leaking some of in to the ground water) is about the same as geothermal (drilling holes into the ground to extract water, leaking water into the ground water).  This argument is absurd.

Enough with the trolling. 

Hmm, gee, let's see, oh yeah the same drilling fluids used to drill and frack nat gas wells is the same drilling fluid used to drill major geothermal wells.  The first few thousand feet of any major well whether it be petro or geotherm is cased off which also includes the fresh water zone; i.e. no fracs occur there. One of the primary evaluation activities in a geothermal well is looking for fractures and sealing them off with, wait for it, drilling fluids.  Why, because water loss in a geothermal well is bad and reduces its efficiency.  Of course you knew that from listening to NPR.  I get my information from walking down a hall full of MS and PhD engineers and scientists everyday.  FYI, fracking has been occurring since the 1950's.  The only thing that has changed is now we can obtain enough nat gas to substantially reduce the USA's dependence on foreign petroleum and resultantly there's a shit load of money to be made or in the case of greeny weenies file lawsuits to get some of becasue they never have anything of benefit to add to the world that anyone wants to buy.

[Howie]

But isnt more electricity used to get the car moving from dead stop? The motor needs a higher demand to initally start spinning. You keep doing that to go 2 feet. and im sure the drain is going to be much higher than advertised.

Yes, but not as bad as an IC engine since electric motors have the same torque at any RPM plus many hybrids have regenerative braking which charges the batteries while braking to a stop.  Most EVs with regenerative braking do better in city traffic than a highway cruize, though maybe not if you have the AC on full tilt etc.

...and then add a 90 deg summer day to the mix...

Let em sweat

[Randimus Maximus]

But isnt more electricity used to get the car moving from dead stop? The motor needs a higher demand to initally start spinning. You keep doing that to go 2 feet. and im sure the drain is going to be much higher than advertised.

with the amount of torque an electric motor makes, it doesn't take much to get it rolling.

not to mention a portion of that will be regenerated when the brakes are applied (it's actually the electric motors turning into generators at that point).

And yes, you are correct that most poor fuel economy situations are caused by idling, and starting from a stop.

there is a reason cabbies are fond of hybrids.  their gas bills are much lower.

the A/C is run off the electric side of a hybrid vehicle.  yes it negatively affects fuel economy, but not nearly as much as if it were run off the gasoline engine.

[il d00d]

Re: He Man's point about idling.

Kinda cool - worksheet on how much gas you save by idling less.



By these numbers and if I used half my average tank idling, it would mean I spend about eight hours per 15 gallon tank (or about a work week in my thirsty FX35) idling, with the AC on - that would be more than an hour a day, or about as long as my commute is, both ways. I don't think I quite reach that number, but I likely use more than I suspected.