2011 M796 ABS Cold Start Issue

[Curmudgeon]

Lower octane may help, most stock 2 valvers run fine on 87.  Yes, the 95 in the manual is RON.

Minimum fuel requirement for the newer bikes is "95 RON (at least)", so I doubt 91 - 92 RON with all the crap in U.S. fuel is going to hack it. Besides, from the major oil companies, only the premium leaves the distributor with the best additive packages and is usually the cleanest.

As for your '01, you might well be right. One sure way to tell this is to measure your fuel mileage on 87 and 93. If you get no mileage improvement, then you're correct. On an newer EFi bike with O2 sensors, I'd wager the mileage would be 5% - 10% better on 93 M+R/2.

[Arachnosold1er]

It did it again! Not as bad as last night though. I always wait for the txt scrolling to stop before starting and if it does not start I turn off, then back ,and  try again til she does. It is my full belief that a lean fuel condition at start is causing this. I have some "pop" on decel and low speeds but not enough to warrant any concern. However, this is a bit annoying. I stalled it at the light leaving work because it was still cold. Started to take off like I always have for the last 4k miles and BLAP, she fell straight on her face. I guess this gives me a good excuse to buy a tuner and performance air filter!  

[Raux]

are you waiting until your bike is idling evenly at 1200rpm?

[Howie]

I'm aware that ~ 14.7:1 is the current "ideal" for catalysts and can see that 13.6:1 would be a lot fatter, but having an "old school" brain, I'd love to know what the ppm CO is for 14.7 and 13.6. It would certainly increase my comfort level.

My Deutsch is weak these days. Never realized that enormous can also be "monster".  Most amusing!

CO does not equal fuel ratio, from engine to engine.  It is used for emissions testing at the state level and for tuning a particular engine.  The feds test CO in ppm and ppm is used in state dyno testing, but % is more commonly used for state tailpipe testing and adjusting.

[Curmudgeon]

It did it again! Not as bad as last night though. I always wait for the txt scrolling to stop before starting and if it does not start I turn off, then back ,and  try again til she does. It is my full belief that a lean fuel condition at start is causing this. I have some "pop" on decel and low speeds but not enough to warrant any concern. However, this is a bit annoying. I stalled it at the light leaving work because it was still cold. Started to take off like I always have for the last 4k miles and BLAP, she fell straight on her face. I guess this gives me a good excuse to buy a tuner and performance air filter!  

Did you try waiting for 5 minutes before the 2nd attempt? I'd be curious to see what you get.

BTW, I doubt your slip-ons have much influence on start-up but less back pressure when you are taking off with a cold engine might be more problematic.

Popping on trailing throttle is just as often unburned fuel in the muffler as it is any indication of a lean condition. Hard to know sometime exactly what is going on with these bikes. It's down to the map. For instance, if I downshift through all the gears up to stop light and it changes before I stop, if I then roll on the throttle, the sucker takes off like an accelerator pump x3!!! That's a LOT of fuel.  Understanding this Siemens ECU is a challenge...

[metroplex]

Riding the 696, I can often smell the waft of fuel in traffic, at lower speeds, or when the wind blows the right way. When I finally get it started in the cold, there is a large puff of blue exhaust followed by a strong smell of fuel or an un-catalyzed exhaust.

[Curmudgeon]

CO does not equal fuel ratio, from engine to engine.  It is used for emissions testing at the state level and for tuning a particular engine.  The feds test CO in ppm and ppm is used in state dyno testing, but % is more commonly used for state tailpipe testing and adjusting.

After 40 years in the high-line car biz, trust me, I'm aware.  (Incidentally, we are equally ancient! ) Until the mid-90's, ALL FI and EFi final tuning was done with CO, so with those numbers, I know what is likely to be too lean, what is fat but OK, and what is likely to be so rich that it screws up the CATs or leads to carbon on the intakes. As I said, "old school".

[Curmudgeon]

Riding the 696, I can often smell the waft of fuel in traffic, at lower speeds, or when the wind blows the right way. When I finally get it started in the cold, there is a large puff of blue exhaust followed by a strong smell of fuel or an un-catalyzed exhaust.

Would you mind posting this on a 696 thread or start your own somewhere?! Not a whole lot in common between a 696 and 796 which, in turn has tons in common with an M1100 and 1100evo. This is my 796 cold start thread. OK???

[metroplex]

Not a problem bud, it doesn't sound like you're getting any closer to a solution anyhow. The cold start problem extends to a wide variety of Ducati's, and not just your 796, FWIW. And the new 796 that is coming out for the Asia market is basically a 696 with a slightly larger engine.

[Arachnosold1er]

are you waiting until your bike is idling evenly at 1200rpm?

My 796 NEVER idles at 1200 RPM. My bike idles closer to the 7-900 RPM range. It will idle a bit higher at first then bounces around 900 RPM with a nice little "lope". Sounds truly amazing through my Arrows! I did not ride today as there was a chance of rain. Its no fun riding home wet at 2am. I should have rode though. It stayed dry all day and was fairly warm. I will take the bike out some more this week and see if my problem persists. If it does, I will probably re-install the db killers and see if that changes anything. Maybe an increase in back pressure will make a difference. BTW, I was suprised at the amount of vacuum that is present at the evap can vent hose. That thing will definitely have to go now. I planned on eliminating it, but a louder exhaust seemed more important at the time. 

[Raux]

check your sticker on your bike. the one that says Vehicle Emission control information. it will give you the correct idle speed.
sounds low at 900

[Curmudgeon]

check your sticker on your bike. the one that says Vehicle Emission control information. it will give you the correct idle speed.
sounds low at 900

Only left the "E" sticker on mine but saved the rest on wax paper. It reads "Idle 1300 +/- 100 RPM   Non-Adjustable" Mine has always been 1200. Guess he needs to get to his dealer and have it set up on the Ducati computer.

[ilovemyduc]

Hi Curmudgeon,

I actually have somewhat of the reverse problem.  I bought my 2011 M796 in May~ish of this year and it has always started right up when cold.  However, when I turn it off after it's been warmed up and then attempt to turn it on after about 15 to 20 minutes, it revs up to 1200 RPM or about and then just falls until it dies.  If I give it some gas or just start riding, it's fine after 15 to 30 seconds of gas/riding and will idle fine without dying.  My dealer in Charlotte NC witnessed this and said it was nothing to worry about.  The problem only occurs if I actually wait 15 or so minutes.  If I turn it off and start it up immediately or so, it will start fine.

It was stock up until a couple of weeks ago when I installed Arrow Ti/carbon slip-ons, 3100 miles.

Edit: It idles at 1250/1300 if I watch the digital rev counter.  I have never done the TPS reset but I have disconnected the battery to install a USB port for charging my phone.

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks for the input. No doubt the cold start circuit / protocol is ragged-edge lean. My production date is 6/2011. Yours? What fuel are you running too?

Mine runs OK after it fires. Takes a while for the O2 sensors to kick in after which it runs on the normal map. With the stepper motor and other sensors, it's hard to predict what causes your stumble but I'd guess the voltages / outputs from that junk is just enough different to cause your stumble. Maybe something will wear in and it'll go away...

Too cold for this wimp to ride today but I'm thinking that my best fix is a battery with more CCAs (cold cranking amps). For giggles I plugged in the Battery Tender and gave mine a full charge after sitting for ~ 2 weeks. It fired right up with the tender still connected. Will take a few more starts like that to confirm but appears promising. This stock battery has 215 CCAs and a smaller Shorai has 270 CCAs. TBD...

Probably a Euro switch with on/off for the headlight would eliminate this too. Not easy to source though.

[ilovemyduc]

My production date is 11/2010.  I run 93 octane and recently over the last 500 miles or so have been using Star Tron.  Oh, in my previous post I meant that I bought it in the May~ time frame of _this_ year, not last, anyways...

Interesting that it may be the battery, but yet you can crank it multiple times without it going 'dead'.  I guess that's more the CCA than the overall charge?  I don't know much about batteries.  Hope that works out for you.