2011 M796 ABS Cold Start Issue

[freeclimbmtb]

...The only thing a Duc EE would do for me is save a few ounces in weight by removing the motor.  

(It'll also let you run a 696 tail tidy for an even cleaner flatter tail. Not that I did this...but I'm just saying...you could...) 

My main motivation for junking the exhaust flapper was to use a clean (flapperless) midpipe (for aesthetics...theres a lot on this subject but the gist is that the flapper is only shut for idle and i think 200rpm above idle for noise, once your on the throttle, it goes wide open), and if the motor isn't doing anything at that point...why have it at all...hence the Duc.ee  It just so happened I forgot all about the cold start issue some time after I did the mod.

I did start the bike last night, fired with NO issue or hesitation at all.  It was about 30F in the garage. (woke up to 5F with a windchill down to -20F today.  FML, why did I leave San Diego?!)

[gitter]

So if i remove the cable and leave the motor in there it could possibly take care of the problem? Is there anything in the ecu programming that would prevent the bike from starting if the exhaust valve motor doesnt cycle prior to attempting to start the bike?

[Curmudgeon]

That remains to be seen. Toss a coin. 

If your supposition about your bike not starting when the flap motor fails to cycle is correct, then that would tend to indicate that the ECU doesn't like it. You already know as a 796 owner that the ECU shuts down either the fuel or spark whenever the bike fails to catch almost immediately. Pity really, as I think it would catch with a few more revolutions.

[cyberswine]

To clarify, if the drive cable is removed from the motor and the electrics are connected the motor itself still cycles, it just spins idly and does it's thing and then tells the ECU all is good.  It may or may not help the specific starting situation, who knows.
I now have had a reflash done which eliminates the whole thing anyway and that could possibly be another answer if one was on the horizon anyway?

[freeclimbmtb]

...You already know as a 796 owner that the ECU shuts down either the fuel or spark whenever the bike fails to catch almost immediately. Pity really, as I think it would catch with a few more revolutions.

?

Never heard of this.  Back before I did any exhaust mods and had the cold start problem, it would fire after 30 or so seconds of cranking but not catch, then after that it would usually catch after 5-10 seconds of cranking if I held the throttle at 5% open or so...

Ive never heard (or experienced) the situation described above...

[Curmudgeon]

?

Never heard of this.  Back before I did any exhaust mods and had the cold start problem, it would fire after 30 or so seconds of cranking but not catch, then after that it would usually catch after 5-10 seconds of cranking if I held the throttle at 5% open or so...

Ive never heard (or experienced) the situation described above...

Obviously your bike has carbs.

And BTW..., anyone who cranks any starter more than 10 - 15 seconds max will be buying a new one soon. Touching the throttle will also achieve nothing but confusing the #%@* out of the ECU..., unless you ride a 696. 

This thread is about a 796 cold start issue on a stone stock bike. They really are supposed to start or DNA is obliged to rectify it. This thread is not about mods I can do to eliminate the issue entirely. It's fairly well established that the race ECU, filter kit and Termi's do. Personally I neither need that expense nor like the looks..., unless DNA wants to give me the homoligated titanium kit gratis. Not happening in this lifetime I'm pretty sure.

[freeclimbmtb]

This thread is not about mods I can do to eliminate the issue entirely.

Then I clearly have no idea what this thread is about.

To each their own I suppose.  15k miles on my starter, never had an issue.  Best of luck solving your problem.

[Howie]

Obviously your bike has carbs.

And BTW..., anyone who cranks any starter more than 10 - 15 seconds max will be buying a new one soon. Touching the throttle will also achieve nothing but confusing the #%@* out of the ECU..., unless you ride a 696. 

This thread is about a 796 cold start issue on a stone stock bike. They really are supposed to start or DNA is obliged to rectify it. This thread is not about mods I can do to eliminate the issue entirely. It's fairly well established that the race ECU, filter kit and Termi's do. Personally I neither need that expense nor like the looks..., unless DNA wants to give me the homoligated titanium kit gratis. Not happening in this lifetime I'm pretty sure.

If you read freeclimbmtb's signature you will see he has a

2011 Monster 796 ABS

[Curmudgeon]

If you read freeclimbmtb's signature you will see he has a

Without a doubt, and also far from stock.

[gitter]

Just an update: removed the cable. Turned the key to the on position, servo motor cycled as normal (sans cable) bike started right up and idled fine. Will report back once I have more info / data.

Side note to the o.p. - if you want this to be a cold start thread about strictly stock bikes and rectifying the issue through DNA let me know and I would be happy to start my own thread.

[bob795]

Curmudgeon, have you find the fix for this issue?

I have similar problem, posted mine in different thread cause I wasn't aware of this thread. Anyway, my bike is 2012 monster 795, and the past two days (yesterday and the day before) my bike was hard to start, when cold. Similar symptom with what you described. Strange thing is it only happened (both times) when I was about to leave the office in the evening. On both days, the bike started right away with no problem in the morning.
This, morning after I wash the bike, it also started right away with just one push in the starter button.

[Curmudgeon]

Not sure the issue is the same. Mine fails to start after sitting for a day or more. Never had an issue with starting on the first attempt when it has been ridden already during the day and/or while the immobilizer light is still flashing. I presume your engine and ECU are identical but I'm not completely sure.

How many miles on yours? Had your first service? Sometimes odd quirks disappear after 1,000 - 1,500 miles. A couple of throttle quirks I had did disappear.

Is your dealer local? You could have him hook up the hand tester and look for any odd readings while you try to start. If he's far away, you could always reset your TPS and see if that makes any difference. To do this on Siemens, just turn your key on until the odometer display comes up, turn it off for a few seconds and then repeat this process two more times. Do NOT hit the starter or move the throttle when you do this. THEN try to start the bike.

No simple answer as ~ 40 things can produce your symptom.

[bob795]

Thanks Curmudgeon.

My bike has 2600 km and had its first serviced at 1000 km. I ride it everyday, except those days between Christmas and new year, when I was on leave. I left the bike in the garage and didn't start it until January 2d, that's when it happened for the first time. 
Anyway, the dealer is local and I plan to take my bike there if it happens again.
Thanks again Curmudgeon.

[Curmudgeon]

Keep us posted. Even though your issue is different than mine, if it recurs and you find a solution, others here may also benefit.

While you're at it, mail me some of you 90 F weather for a few days!  Freezing in VA at the moment!

[subin]

Mine is 2012 M796 with about 450 mi and the cold start issue happened twice. Once at around 100 mi and the symptom was that when I pressed the start button, it cranked for a couple of seconds and then stopped. I then OFF/ON the ignition (wait for the display to scrolled through) and tried again, but the same. I did this 3 times and finally decided to just hold the starter button and it cranked for 3 seconds and started. Keep in mind that the battery is fully charged with battery tender jr.

After that, I had the ECU reflashed and this happened again at about 400 mi. This time, I did not OFF/ON the ignition switch and it took me three tries (pushed start button) to start the bike.
I only ride on the weekends, so the bike was parked inside the garage after each ride for about six days in between rides. I have not experienced when the bike is warm or if there are an hour or two between the ride. It is not a concern yet, but I am keeping an eye on it.