Cold start issue resolved on 696

[metroplex]

For those that are anal retentive about their 796 being the exact same as the 1100, even though the 1100 has 4 spark plugs... the following may or may not apply to you.

Ever since I got the 696 brand new from the dealership with 0 miles, it has had difficulty starting below 45-50F ambient. The Yuasa battery was brand new and it has lived on a Tender since I first got the bike. Looking on the Internet, it seems may other 696 owners have the same problem. Most of the smart ass replies consist of "use the fast idle lever, follow the owner's manual, blah blah blah" and some nicer folks looked at Li-Ion batteries, wiring upgrades, considered leaner/richer tunes, or suggested that the engine break in more.

I changed the oil, changed to Iridium spark plugs, deleted the evap canister, upgraded the spark plug wires, checked the battery wiring connections, etc... and the 696 still had issues cold starting. I noticed the spark plugs were always oily, and a lot of oil residue collected on the tailpipes. Revving the engine would always result in a puff of blue smoke upon deceleration. What I noticed more was that during the difficult cold starts, after 36-40 cranks when the engine finally starts, there would always be a plume of blue smoke coming out. And yes, I understand the difference between blue smoke (oil being burned), black smoke (rich condition), and steam.

So I looked at my oil level (after the change), and wow, it was really overfilled. I didn't realize it was that important to have the bike vertical and off the stands. This requires some Yoga skills with a block of wood on the sidestand.

After I drained out the excess and kept the oil level at or slightly above the minimum/lower mark on the sightglass, the cold start issues went away.

I conducted 4 cold start tests, one a day essentially, with the ambient air/outdoor temperatures at 35, 37, 28, and 17 degrees F respectively.

For the first 2 tests, I waited until the headlight shut off, kept the Tender on, and waited until the battery voltage was at 12.8 VDC or as high as it can go on the Tender. I opened up the fast idle lever, and hit the starter. In one crank, the engine fired up, hobbled around 1k RPM, and then sped up by itself. Only once did it stall out, but it fired up on the next start.

I still needed to rule out the battery/voltage, so today when the outside temp was 17F and the engine was actually 28F (using IR thermometer inside the unheated garage), I pulled the TEnder, turned on the key, opened the lever, and hit the starter without waiting. I saw the battery voltage was at 12.3 VDC during cranking. It fired right up, hobbled around 1-1.5k RPM, and sped up by itself.

Although that is only 4 test trials, I think the oil level was the biggest cause of cold starting issues. I recall that from the factory/dealer, my oil level was close to the top mark and could have been overfilled. I see from Ducati promotional photographs that the oil level is always at or slightly above that min mark on the sight glass.

I wonder how the oil level relates to ambient air temperature, and my only guess is that at colder temperatures, oil soaked spark plugs and 2 cold combustion chambers with "high" compression makes it harder to start than say a 4/6/8/10/12 cylinder engine with more spark plugs/cylinders.

From what others have said, it doesn't take much to go over the top mark, so it might be worthwhile to check your oil level if you have issues cold starting a Monster 696.

I've ruled out the headlight, spark plugs, spark plug wires, oil viscosity/type, battery, battery/starter wiring, DP Race ECU stock tune, and other voodoo.

My 696 has the DP race ECU (non-ABS), Termi's, 93 octane from the local pump, Denso IXU24 iridium plugs (at 0.9mm gap), and Magnecor 8.5mm race wires.

[Howie]

You may have discovered something here.  If the crankcase is overfilled oil will be forced into the combustion chambers and could cause plug fowling.  If overfull enough (quite a bit) cranking speed can be reduced too since crankcase volume is reduced. 

I don't know if this will work for you, but I simply hold the bike vertical against my knee to check.  I find it easy to feel vertical.  You need to allow time for the oil to level in the site glass.  Don't keep it topped off to the full line.  I can't speak for the 696, but the difference between the full line and the add line is not much.  You will find each bike will find it's happy point between add and full. 

A student who just bought a used bike asked me why his bike was hard starting and told me the bike would stall after a couple of trips around the block.  I asked him if he checked the oil level.  He said the oil filled the sight glass.  I suggested he drain the oil and measure what came out.  Twice the oil capacity came out.  He refilled it with the proper amount of oil.  Problem solved.

[metroplex]

Howie, after much experimenting that is what I ended up doing to make the bike vertical. Hands on the fender/subframe and handlebar/fork, and knee on the timing cover or frame and wait for the oil to level in the sight glass.

Was your student's bike a thumper, a twin, or another engine?

Here's a photo of what I was talking about, a photo of a 848 Streetfighter in one of the magazines also indicated a similar oil level:

[Howie]

I4, a well used Yamaha 600 sport bike.  He picked it up for something close to free.  I wouldn't be surprised if the previous owner was having the same problem and thought the bike needed an engine.

[Dellikose]

It's crazy that it was something so simple that was causing this condition.

I was reading your other thread, trying to figure it out and I was stumped.

I'm glad that you found the problem!

[HotIce]

Why only when cold then?
Fully synthetic oils are supposed to flow pretty much the same way.
Good to know though, as I tend to be on the "more" side when I change my oil ...

[Howie]

Why only when cold then?
Fully synthetic oils are supposed to flow pretty much the same way.
Good to know though, as I tend to be on the "more" side when I change my oil ...

The problem is not oil flow.  Fuel atomization is poor when temperatures are cold, even more so when laced with ethanol.  Available battery amprerage also diminishes with temperature.  All these create higher ignition demands and need for a richer mixture.  Oil fouled plugs and leaner maps to meet emission standards make cold starting more of a chore. 

[Raux]

 

[HotIce]

I didn't realize it was that important to have the bike vertical and off the stands. This requires some Yoga skills with a block of wood on the sidestand.

BTW, I do this by standing on the bike and keeping it vertical, and using my phone to take a picture with my right hand.
Even if your right arm has to drop on the side to do this, it is not as bad as leaning your head all the way to the side to look at the oil level window.

[Dellikose]

It's also another good reason to get a rear stand.

[metroplex]

I have the Pit Bull front and rear stands, but I wasn't sure if it would affect the height/angle of the engine causing an incorrect sight glass reading. Once I figure out the exact quantity of oil to use, it will be a lot simpler.

[DucatiKabul]

Good thread/find Metroplex, it is because of spark plugs getting fouled by excessive engine oil. 
BTW If you have to change battery, spark plug/wires, ecu...to solve a cold starting issue... then we can pretty much say that Ducati does not know what they are doing. 

[Dellikose]

I have the Pit Bull front and rear stands, but I wasn't sure if it would affect the height/angle of the engine causing an incorrect sight glass reading. Once I figure out the exact quantity of oil to use, it will be a lot simpler.

Let us know what you find when you check vertical vs. on stand(s).

[Howie]

The bike needs to be vertical and reasonably level.  Could you note where the oil is in the sight glass when level and when on the rearstand and use that for future reference?  As long as it is the same rear stand supported in the same place, sure.

[booger]

So I guess this would be among the reasons why the owner's manual specifically states not to overfill the engine with oil

This thread is useful as it shows what problems can occur, since the manufacturer isn't kind enough to be specific, i.e. the mushroom treatment. It's a well-known no-no. It would be nice though, if the manufacturers would stop acting as though people aren't smart enough to know why they should not do this or that however, and what the specific effects of these mistakes would be. . 

Overfilling a wet-sump engine with oil drags on the crankshaft, and causes it to whip the oil into a froth much like pastry chef whips cream in a mixer. This is bad for obvious reasons because frothy oil won't lube the bearings and other metal parts inside the engine properly as oil pressure will be lost. A properly filled crankcase will not leave oil in the sump space interfering with the crankshaft lobes when the engine is running and the oil pump is pumping. With modern synthetics it's not as bad, but still. I'm not sure about the danger of seals blowing out, as if anything it seems to me that oil pressure would lessen with oil froth. And in the case of Ducati 2-valve engines, and this case in particular, a grossly overfilled sump causing fouled plugs. Must have really been overfilled. I suspect it has to do with specific engine design, how overfilling affects everything.

Most people tend to believe they want the oil level right at the top mark on the dipstick, or crankcase ticks or whatever. I have come to learn that the engine, at least the ones I've known, wants it to be somewhere in the middle. Big engines with small oil capacities would be the exception, you want to keep those topped off.