Road Death. Cause and effect? (Or how we learned to blame the victim).

[ungeheuer]

[hbliam]

In that particular collision there is some truth to that conclusion. You can ride too fast for the conditions. And by conditions, the adjoining street with a parked car blocking your view and the view of the other driver.

[koko64]

True, but the rider nails the rear brake and most importantly (where's the rider training?), THE RIDER HAD RIGHT OF WAY. Failing to give way and turning right in front of an oncoming vehicle is one of the most culpable things a driver can do besides running a red light.
The 8km point is more about justifying speed tax cameras than anything. Inattentive driving and failing to give way kills more people than 8kms over the limit. Speed is a factor sure, but the blame is put on the victim.
The language and tone of the add clearly puts the onus of blame on the victim, because someone wants to discourage us off the road altogether. Dont be fooled
If the add said " be careful and take into account inattentive drivers, so ride defensively and give yourself a chance", with a tone of advice and instuction it would be different. But that would mean we are valued and respected road users..
The message to car drivers is a dangerous one, it blames us just for being on the road. Just read between the lines and note who cops the onus of fault.
There is a clear anti motorcycling policy in some govt departments irrespective of the party in power.
Remember the Libs in the last election promising to end antagonistic policies to ward motorcyclists after the Labor govts crap record?
There are some public servants that need to be sacked.
If we dont organize an effective lobby group we will be legislated off the road. We pay more rego down here despite a smaller carbon footprint,  less congestion, less parking space, less wear on the roads. We get special attention from the police pushed by Vic Roads and TAC. The cops would rather be catching bad guys than booking us for a tail tidy, it wastes their time.
So dont be surprised that there are sections of the public service that want us off the road and adds like that are part of the propaganda to further alienate us from other road users.
Oh how I wish we were favoured by certain public servants like bicyclists!

[Howie]

What would be a typical speed limit on a road like that in Australia? 

[koko64]

35 mph maybe 40-45 around town depending on how built up the area was. Thats a rough conversion. The ad has 60 kms so about 35mph for that one. The rider was 5mph over.
We have a real problem down here in this state (and some others too) with anti motorcycling attitudes in the bureaucracy. The overtones of the ad may not stand out to some but locals interpret them in a wider context and history of anti motorcycling policy. One bureaucrat said he wanted to outlaw motorcycles if he could.
We need an effective AMA down here.

[NAKID]

Yeah, I agree. 5mph over is insignificant in most areas. Was the rider in the wrong by slightly speeding? Yes. But the other driver entered the intersection before it was clear to do so and caused the collision.

[hbliam]

THE RIDER HAD RIGHT OF WAY.

Yep, sure did. The problem is, all "right of way" does here is assign blame for criminal and civil proceedings. That's pretty much all it ever does. It's not a physical barrier or magic force field.

Should the commercial emphasize the responsibility of the driver more? Sure.  Should the rider practice better defensive driving and, as you pointed out, better braking skills? I think so.

I took a report regarding a kid that rode his skateboard off the sidewalk and into a crosswalk, directly into the path of a SUV. He flew about fifty feet. His comment? "I had the right of way!"

[koko64]

The real purpose of the ad is disurbing.  The overtones and emphasis are the issues of concern, but that appears lost on you.
There are more effective ways of improving rider safety than alienating them with ads that are discriminatory.
The overtones of the ad will have more power to influence driver attitudes than facts, and that is the dangerous thing about this ad.

[ungeheuer]

There is a clear anti motorcycling policy in some govt departments irrespective of the party in power.  Remember the Libs in the last election promising to end antagonistic policies to ward motorcyclists after the Labor govts crap record?.... There are some public servants that need to be sacked......Oh how I wish we were favoured by certain public servants like bicyclists!

That I agree with you wont really matter if this thread gets locked due to political commentary.

Should the rider practice better defensive driving and, as you pointed out, better braking skills? I think so.

I think so too.  But IMO its not the real bone of contention here.

The real purpose of the ad is disurbing.  The overtones and emphasis are the issues of concern....

The overtones of the ad will have more power to influence driver attitudes than facts, and that is the dangerous thing about this ad.

^^ This.  

This is the problem I have with this ad.

To me it effectively says to drivers of cars - and I know most of us also drive cars, I'm talking about the majority of car drivers who have no concept and little regard for us two wheelers - that pulling out into an intersection when it was not safe to do so is understandable in the circumstances.... After all the nasty speeding motorbike was travelling too fast (5mph over the posted limit) so no wonder you didnt see the high velocity idiot.  

Theres not a word of concern about the car driver's lack of appropriate attention.  Rather it seems to excuse it with the simplistic message that the rider is dead coz he was travelling too fast.  

After all, isnt that why so much attention is devoted to the proliferation of revenue-positive road "safety" speed cameras rather than wasting finances on expensive driver training programmes?

[Raux]

Legitimate Road training for ALL car drivers won't happen in most western countries due to the 'right' vs 'privilege' mentality of driving.
In Germany, it's a privilege, they pay ALOT of money for a lot of driver training. So, losing that privilege due to incompetence becomes an economic issue for drivers.
In the states, it's a 'right' at 16. They take a class in school for half a year with about 3hrs or less in car training and bam, you have a right to do whatever you want on the road. There's no probationary period like in Germany.

German sample laws


•First you must be at least 18 years of age.
•After you have completed the driver education course and school you are on probation for 2 years. During these 2 years a lesser driving violation would require you to re-take the driver education course. A more serious driving violation would call for your driver's license to be revoked. In either case when your driver's license has been granted once again you will be on probation for 4 years.
•The driver training course covers almost 28 hours of classroom education followed by 35 hours of driving school on the road to cover varying conditions of day, night and autobahn experience with an instructor.

That's just for car drivers. For motorcycles, it's even harder with the stepped system.
I WISH the states were like this.

[hbliam]

The real purpose of the ad is disurbing.  The overtones and emphasis are the issues of concern, but that appears lost on you.
There are more effective ways of improving rider safety than alienating them with ads that are discriminatory.
The overtones of the ad will have more power to influence driver attitudes than facts, and that is the dangerous thing about this ad.

The real purpose of the ad (per the ad) is to get riders to slow down and ride more defensively. What you read into it is up to you.

The real issue is you guys drive on the wrong side of the road. If you drove on the right side the car could have made the turn without crossing the riders path.

[koko64]

You're not an Aussie,? That changes everything, well apologies mate.

You see, we down here have a local context of about at least twenty years of successive governments being anti motorcycling. This has led to entrenched bureaucrats taking that crusade on for themselves.
Locals don't see ads like that in isolation, there's a slant to the motorcycle related ads that gets us down here real angry, and it's been a concerted campaign. My state has the harshest road laws in the free world. For example, we are allowed 3% speed error, but speedometers are allowed 5% oem! Go figure. You can be booked for 2 mph over and for speeding up to avoid danger from converging traffic, and you are guilty untill proven innocent with our speed cameras which have been regularly inaccurate.
Wire rope barriers and other hazards still exist despite promises and govts attempt to reintroduce front number plates! We need to get Ducatiz and j v  down here for a class action!
Check out the Oz Monster site and you will see. We are starting with a petition and hopefully it will build from there.

[Betty]

The real purpose of the ad (per the ad) is to get riders to slow down and ride more defensively. What you read into it is up to you.

  No that is only what they want you to think the real purpose of the ad is ... you have fallen for it just as drivers would but with a slightly different understanding.

In actuality the primary purpose of the road safety groups is to raise revenue. An example ... we have a point system here:
- you speed
- your fined
- you lose points
- lose enough points you lose your licence
All seems reasonable until revenues start to drop. Then, in NSW (the next state to the source of this ad) they simply increased the number of points before your licence is lost ... kept more drivers on the road, increasing revenue opportunities. Nothing to do with safety or getting people to slow down. Certainly no education.

[koko64]

Hey Unge
Should this thread go back to the Ozmonsters site?

[Raux]

Hey Unge
Should this thread go back to the Ozmonsters site?

no, i think that all riders should work with their local authorities to start the push for better rider AND especially better driver education.