If there an SS market for Ducati?

[ducatiz]

I disagree.  The Ducati brand is wound up with high performance, high style, high tech, and Italian exoticness.  The man on the street (even your average biker on the street) looks at a Ducati, even a 620 Monster, and thinks "wow, that must be really fast", or "that guy must be rich", or something like that.  He doesn't think about the technical details.

Desmo and trellis contribute to that currently, but changing those to something better/more exotic won't detract from that.  OTOH, getting left behind certainly would tarnish the brand.  If you want a bike that sticks to their "trademark" configuration long past it performing competitively, buy a Guzzi.  I like Guzzis.  I will probably have one at some point.  But they aren't anything like current with regard to performance, and can't be as long as they value tradition over function.  It would be a real shame to see Ducati pigeonhole itself into the same corner.

You sound exactly like some Harley "faithful" who thinks it can't be a Harley if it has water cooling or a new shape or a better engine configuration -- the guys who keep Harley from getting anywhere with anything but traditional cruisers.  Ducati doesn't need a "second brand"; they need to take good care of the brand they have, which has an excellent image these days (despite the plastic tank debacle).  That means (a) keeping the quality high, (b) good customer service and standing behind their products, and (c) keeping up with performance and technology.

PhilB

Well, Ducati has in fact tried to follow the Harley marketing model.  They said that explicitly.

I am all for them innovating.  Having a second brand would let them try things under a different marque and then incorporate it into the Ducati brand once it's proven itself.

[PhilB]

Well, Ducati has in fact tried to follow the Harley marketing model.  They said that explicitly.

I am all for them innovating.  Having a second brand would let them try things under a different marque and then incorporate it into the Ducati brand once it's proven itself.

For supplementing their income by marketing accessories and "lifestyle", yes.  Which is OK if done carefully, so as not to cheapen the brand and become a laughingstock.  I'm not sure if Ducati is doing that quite right; some of their choices are a bit questionable, but I'm basically OK with the concept.

However, again, the brand image they are going with is Ducati's own image -- high fashion, high tech, high performance.  NOT Harley's image of tradition and nostalgia.

And to "try things under a different marque and then incorporate it into the Ducati brand once it's proven itself" is the wrong message for a brand that is to be seen as innovative and leading edge.  You don't get that brand image by being timid.

PhilB

[Scoober1103]

Firstly I love the new 1199 and would give my left one to have it in the stable and would think a smaller capacity version with the same tech would suit me even better as the older I get the less boundaries I push and could not get even close to matching the ability of the Panigale.

I can't see why if there was a market for it there couldn't be another model offered in one or two engine capacities utilising aesthetics of the trellis frame and either a water cooled 4V or air cooled 2V! If for whatever reason you can't or don't want to ride an 1199 an SS or ST could be more then enough bike to satisfy the masses.

Right now I'm guessing the Multi is filling this market but it isn't everyone's cup of tea and the price is up there as well.

For me a fully faired bike with better ergonomics then a Sport classic and a bit more modern but dialled down from a Panigale and keeping some of the stand back and stare at it's sheer beauty aspects would make for an outstanding bike! But I am but one! 

[Curmudgeon]

But I am but one! 

Read my comment on pg. 1. Like the S-ST idea but don't need 4V anymore. We are out of luck. Fairly certain Ducati has the pulse of the market. Who'd have thought the Diavel would fly? Not I..., but it does.

Limited SBKs, Multis and Roadsters = full order books for a niche marketer.

[Scoober1103]

I'd love to have a small, LIGHTWEIGHT, comfortable Monster-based 796 ST

I am one of two............

[danaid]

 Anybody read this story in cycle world,

http://touch.cycleworld.com/cycleworld/#!/entry/on-the-record-claudio-domenicali-ducati-general-manager,4fd890d74b672622b8353ead

this is an interesting interview with Ducati general manager about the future of Ducati.

[SparkyBlue]

Speaking as an older guy(60), the SS style platform just won't get it for me and my buds. Neck, back, shoulder, and knee issues make them impractical, I'm two of four     The Multistrada, GS can do so much so well, the SS is almost redundant. I love my S2R1000 for what it is, and is pefect in that role. My long hauler, a K1200S is relaxed, smooth and powerful, and has bags. Just don't see how Ducati would profit.

[ducatiz]

Speaking as an older guy(60), the SS style platform just won't get it for me and my buds. Neck, back, shoulder, and knee issues make them impractical, I'm two of four     The Multistrada, GS can do so much so well, the SS is almost redundant. I love my S2R1000 for what it is, and is pefect in that role. My long hauler, a K1200S is relaxed, smooth and powerful, and has bags. Just don't see how Ducati would profit.

My experience is just the opposite -- I have back and neck injuries from my crazy life and the only time I hurt during or after a ride was on the Monster with the stock bars -- I put on clipons to match my SS riding position, voila, no more pain.

For a long hauler though, I would want the Multi or something similar, but for afternoon rides, I need to lay down a little

[triangleforge]

Anybody read this story in cycle world,

http://touch.cycleworld.com/cycleworld/#!/entry/on-the-record-claudio-domenicali-ducati-general-manager,4fd890d74b672622b8353ead

this is an interesting interview with Ducati general manager about the future of Ducati.

That's a fascinating interview, with fairly definitive answers about a lot of the questions raised in this thread; I couldn't get there on a desktop through the link above, but this should work:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/13/on-the-record-claudio-domenicali/

And to boil down one word his response to the title of this thread?

No.

[ducatiz]

That's a fascinating interview, with fairly definitive answers about a lot of the questions raised in this thread; I couldn't get there on a desktop through the link above, but this should work:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/13/on-the-record-claudio-domenicali/

And to boil down one word his response to the title of this thread?

No.

He actually said based on the failure of the SS redesign that he didn't think it would do well.

When the last generation of Supersport models fared poorly in the market and was canceled, Ducati lost a sales potential of 10,000 bikes a year, and that was very painful. In the meantime, the motorcycle market changed drastically. Now, it primarily responds to “provocations” like the Diavel. I have strong doubts about the success of a renewed supersport model.

That could mean a couple of things.

1.  he's only thinking of a new SS that picks up with the old design
2.  he can't accept that even Ducati can make a turkey
3.  he isn't thinking out of the box.

Seems to me they could use the Monster as a base, design a new tank and good looking fairings and they are done.  I think they could have a new bike line with a minimum of fuss that doesn't cost a crazy amount to develop.

Or sell it as a kit.  Swap the tank and mount these fairings and voila.  1 million dollars please.

[Curmudgeon]

He actually said based on the failure of the SS redesign that he didn't think it would do well.

That could mean a couple of things.

1.  he's only thinking of a new SS that picks up with the old design
2.  he can't accept that even Ducati can make a turkey
3.  he isn't thinking out of the box.

Seems to me they could use the Monster as a base, design a new tank and good looking fairings and they are done.  I think they could have a new bike line with a minimum of fuss that doesn't cost a crazy amount to develop.

Or sell it as a kit.  Swap the tank and mount these fairings and voila.  1 million dollars please.

Lying down?  You're still a relative youngster. Wait until a few more parts fall off and you'll understand we still speedy old farts better!

Having assisted in the introduction of two successful niche vehicles into the U.S., his comment about the SS was "polite". 

The Diavel was "out of the box" IMO.

Based on Logomania, your kit idea has merit! I'd rather see an ST fairing though which was as carefully wind tunnel tested as the stock new Monsters because the headlight/bikini fairing/mirror combo is seriously "quiet" at speed. Unfortunately, the high pipes don't easily lend themselves to an attractive quick release soft bag solution. Pity...

Anyway, who knows for sure, but I'd wager an ST kit would outsell an SS kit 5:1. Not enough sales for them to invest the time though.

[H-2 CHARLIE]

  A 1200cc  2v SS street fighter might work for a bad boy look and sound .

[Privateer]

The other reason they might move away from desmo on the "entry" bikes is the widespread (and IMHO, inaccurate) perception that it's expensive and fiddly to maintain.

I battle that on a regular basis.  The general problem I see among people comparing duc to jap i4's is the unfamiliarity of the shim system and the increased service interval.  Add on that the extra cost of belts and it starts adding up.  Not a lot, but more than an I4.

[ducatiz]

I battle that on a regular basis.  The general problem I see among people comparing duc to jap i4's is the unfamiliarity of the shim system and the increased service interval.  Add on that the extra cost of belts and it starts adding up.  Not a lot, but more than an I4.

it seems if it doesn't net a noticeable performance increase it's hard to argue against.

[thought]

.

Seems to me they could use the Monster as a base, design a new tank and good looking fairings and they are done.  I think they could have a new bike line with a minimum of fuss that doesn't cost a crazy amount to develop.

Or sell it as a kit.  Swap the tank and mount these fairings and voila.  1 million dollars please.

Isn't that basically the sport classics?