Good form vs bad form - photos

[b.]

I'd say one change you could work at is getting that inside arm more like so:

- see how it's out and he's able to operate the throttle by rotating the forearm vs flexing the wrist?

And looks like you could bring yoru whole body a bit more to the inside of center.

$Lindz$?

Aha, gotcha.  Definitely something to work on during my next outing. 

[$Lindz$]

Yeah definitely loosen your grip on the bars, push your elbows out so that your main grip on the inside bar is thumb, fore and middle fingers. If that makes sense. That's what the "screwdriver" grip we were talking about is. Right now, gripping the bars fully is holding your elbow in which is limiting how far over the tank and how far off the centerline that your body is able to be.

Glad to see dudes out on the track though! When are you going to cave and get a sportbike? Haha.

[b.]

Yeah definitely loosen your grip on the bars, push your elbows out so that your main grip on the inside bar is thumb, fore and middle fingers. If that makes sense. That's what the "screwdriver" grip we were talking about is. Right now, gripping the bars fully is holding your elbow in which is limiting how far over the tank and how far off the centerline that your body is able to be.

I was having a hard time understanding the "screwdriver" grip, but it's clicked in my brain now.

Glad to see dudes out on the track though! When are you going to cave and get a sportbike? Haha.

Chasing down the sportbikes--especially the dude on the Panigale--in the turns was certainly gratifying on my little scoot.  But I was definitely wanting more on the straightaways.  It did force me to explore braking later and accelerating sooner than the pack in order to get around them though.

[nickshelby500kr]

Just thought I would throw a picture from my last track day in here. I always enjoy some constructive criticism to better myself.

[$Lindz$]

nickshelby, STOP SITTING ON THE BIKE! Pretend the seat is made out of hot coals that will burn your ass! Haha. Get off it, and get your upper body low. And weight your inside peg when you want lean angle and then stomp on the outside one driving out of the corner to help stand the bike up.

Really, just bring that upper body over and down more will help. You're not crossed up at all. In reality, you have perfect "early 2000s" BP. What tires are you running? Nowadays it's most effective to use a little less lean on the tire and compensate with more dramatic BP to keep the bike turning.

What's the gear or approx. speed for that corner? That's also something to consider. Not every corner should be the same BP. All of what I just said could be worthless for that particular corner, hah!

[$Lindz$]

Last track day, T4 at Big Willow. Pushing real hard.

[nickshelby500kr]

nickshelby, STOP SITTING ON THE BIKE! Pretend the seat is made out of hot coals that will burn your ass! Haha. Get off it, and get your upper body low. And weight your inside peg when you want lean angle and then stomp on the outside one driving out of the corner to help stand the bike up.

Really, just bring that upper body over and down more will help. You're not crossed up at all. In reality, you have perfect "early 2000s" BP. What tires are you running? Nowadays it's most effective to use a little less lean on the tire and compensate with more dramatic BP to keep the bike turning.

What's the gear or approx. speed for that corner? That's also something to consider. Not every corner should be the same BP. All of what I just said could be worthless for that particular corner, hah!

I was always under the impression that you simply want to stay ON the seat, just slid over and hanging off and bringing your upper body over and down to adjust your center of gravity through the turn. Whenever I hear of others using the "off the seat" technique, I have never really felt like opening a can of worms by asking why?

It seems to me that by being off the seat, you have changed the amount of weight the shock is holding up by altering how that weight is spread out through the bike, leading to issues with the shock behaving as it is sprung for a much heavier rider also changing where the shock is preloaded at...

This was the first time I rode the smaller track at MSRC. If I remember correctly it was turn 3 but I don't know off hand what gear I was In and certainly don't know how fast being I was more concerned with learning this particular track. And not to sound like I was making excuses I was also running by-003s which I had not run before.

[Slide Panda]

It seems to me that by being off the seat, you have changed the amount of weight the shock is holding up by altering how that weight is spread out through the bike, leading to issues with the shock behaving as it is sprung for a much heavier rider also changing where the shock is preloaded at...

Unless you've fallen off the bike, it is still carrying your mass. The spring does not change - you do effect the combined center of gravity when you move around on the bike and this can cause the rear to lift or settle, compress the front more when on the brakes, stand the bike up more, or force more lean into the bike depending on what you're doing. But the dynamics of the suspension don't change - not the spring rate, not the preload. You may reduce or eliminate sag if you're so far forward all the weight of you and the bike has transitioned to the front wheel - but again, that's not a change in spring rate or preload.

By being off the seat, you do change that combined center of gravity. Done properly you're allowing the bike to be more upright given a fixed speed and turn radius. Allowing the bike to be more upright allows the suspension to function more efficiently as it only tracks in the z-axis. there's also impacts on contact patch size - but I don't want to go on too long.

[Slide Panda]

Back to photos.

From the first track outing this year. After getting past some stiffness and being rusty things are looking better. Toes need to come back a bit more for sure and a few more inches over the seat are still there too, but overall, step by step getting better.

Wasn't captured, but by late on I was getting a bit more off the saddle and low with the upper body. Manage to bonk the inside of my chin bar on the hand guard a couple times.

Picked up a gear in pace for most of the track and hugging tighter lines without much challenge, even with the upped pace. More room for better, but felt good to make gains despite my lack of saddle time this year.

Comments?

[stopintime]

My great instructor talked about head angle on the track vs street.
He wasn't preaching black or white, but discussing how the relatively few reference points on the track could allow a tilted head - not level as we need to on the street.
The positive result is that the body is easier to get into that point-and-shoot position.

[mr.freezer]

this is me on my M620 today... what to improve?



photo taken with phone...

[Slide Panda]

Super hard to say from that angle. Id say watch your line on the street - hugging the inside of a left in a curvy area can get one a truck mirror to the face.

As far as body - take a look at Lindz arm and hands ... Mine too, but a lesser degree. Bringing your elbows up allows you to move a bit better, but more importantly it allows for finer contol inputs especially at the throttle. 'Screwdriver hands'

Hard to say, but looks like you're crossing up. You've moved over in the saddle but it appears your head is back towards center which negates a lot of the effect of moving you hips over.

It's a challenge and a learned skill. I'm definetly still working at

[Duc796canada]

Definitely the track is the place to be for practising these skills!!

[Slide Panda]

Definitely the track is the place to be for practising these skills!!

Well, practicing good riding skills should be done all over. Yes, pushing your limits is wiser at the track, but good body position is good body position, regardless of where you are.

[mr.freezer]

I know the photo is not good, but i was a photographer that day, so i took photos of all the guys, but photo of me was taken just by one of them thanks for the comment... I was trying to get my elbows down... I was looking over sidemirror, so I guess I was not crossed up... this part of road is closed for cars in that part of a day, when we are riding... so there is no danger of trucks... and what abou legs?? i am confused if it is normal to have that HOLE between leg and bike... thanks