Ducati sales down 5% in first quarter 2013

[Raux]

they now have an 821 4v, 848 4v, and 1198 4v



then the 1199 4v and likely a 750 or 848 4v superquadra motors

[LowThudd]

That is NOT a line of engines for new riders though. They would need to make smaller, less expensive motors available to continue to have a full range of bikes for riders of varrying needs. Sure, the could detune a 848 to under 100 HP, but without major modifacation it is still going to want to rev like a SBK. Innit?

[duccarlos]

Not sure about getting rid of the Monster due to the reasons mentioned above. They might get ride of the 1100 and just keep the 696 and 796. If you want something with more grunt, go with the SF.

The SF848 was going to be the bike I bought when I got back to the US. I love my current Street Triple, but I miss the twins. I'm way too short for a HM or a Multi and too old for a sportbike. The SF is truly the best of both worlds. If they get rid of it, I will buy either another Street Triple or upgrade to a Speed Triple.

[Slide Panda]

Sure, the could detune a 848 to under 100 HP, but without major modifacation it is still going to want to rev like a SBK. Innit?

They presently electronically limit the 1200 11degree plants in the Multi and Diavel to 100hp. Apply that same tech to the 848 and it's no stretch to get below 100

[LowThudd]

Still a much more expensive proposal than an air cooled motor which already puts that power out.

[MadDuck]

They presently electronically limit the 1200 11degree plants in the Multi and Diavel to 100hp. Apply that same tech to the 848 and it's no stretch to get below 100

Why on earth would anyone want to get an 848 to below 100HP?     

If I had to do it all over again with a new Ducati, or rather another Ducati, it'd be a Streetfighter 1098 for sure.  I have no idea what they are talking about when they bring up handling issues.  The thing puts a Monster to shame in that dept.

[Drjones]

Still a much more expensive proposal than an air cooled motor which already puts that power out.

Missing the point.

I'm sure Ducati would be quite happy to retain the 2V air cooled motors, however they have to meet emmisions regulations set by "others who can't be named on this board."  So Ducati have two choices: A) Dump money into R&D to make the 2V engines compliant to the regs, which is akin to beating one's head against a brick wall or B) Drop a more efficient by default 4V water cooled engine in and be done.  The HP/Torque characteristics of the bike and the end user's financial interests/capacity are not of any concern to "others who can't be named on this board."

[Slide Panda]

Why on earth would anyone want to get an 848 to below 100HP?     

yep, not the point. Point was modern electronics can alter the power output of a given engine radically.

[Duck-Stew]

Missing the point.

I'm sure Ducati would be quite happy to retain the 2V air cooled motors, however they have to meet emmisions regulations set by "others who can't be named on this board."  So Ducati have two choices: A) Dump money into R&D to make the 2V engines compliant to the regs, which is akin to beating one's head against a brick wall or B) Drop a more efficient by default 4V water cooled engine in and be done.  The HP/Torque characteristics of the bike and the end user's financial interests/capacity are not of any concern to "others who can't be named on this board."

+1.

I also don't think Ducati much cares anymore if they offer a 'low-end' or 'entry-level' bike.  Power has been going up and up through the years and I don't see that stopping anytime soon.  Not to mention that there's a higher profit % in a more expensive bike.  Plus, if Ducati settles on a single engine platform for the non-SBK's (4V testa-evo), that move alone would save a lot of $$$.

All air-cooled Ducati motors will be gone within 3 years (my prediction).

[Raux]

ok so let's get back to predicting the Ducati lineup based on these numbers in the coming years and based on current powerplants or versions there of.

Monster 600 (version of current HM motor)  NO way they drop the smaller Monster, it's money in the bank
Monster 820 (current HM motor)  This is a no brainer as well
Monster 1200 (current MTS motor)  This replaces the SF

MTS 820 (current HM motor -  replaces HS and HM, bases on sales and pricing options this would sell well IMO)
MTS 1200

Diavel

799 (750cc version of 1199 motor)
1199


And my left field... a new SS/ST line. an SS that can optioned out as an ST with hard bags, risers and taller windscreens.
The danger is the 1200 model which could compete with the 799, so maybe the 1200 comes only as the ST version (but those smart enough can swap the 820 parts on it ).

SS 600 (version of HM motor)
SS 820 (HM motor)
ST 1200 (Diavel motor)

[duccarlos]

Why make an ST when the Multi handles this? Why add an SS when you're going away from the air-cooled engine? Not wanting to get into politics, but can someone tell me if the same emission rules apply even for retro bikes? In other words, if Ducati wanted to make another sport classic, would they need to put a 4v on it?

[Slide Panda]

Retro is just a stylistic term. Emissions stuff would apply.

[Raux]

Why make an ST when the Multi handles this? Why add an SS when you're going away from the air-cooled engine? Not wanting to get into politics, but can someone tell me if the same emission rules apply even for retro bikes? In other words, if Ducati wanted to make another sport classic, would they need to put a 4v on it?

The SS/ST would be a trellis/semi trellis 4v bike with track credability but added touring capability.

Think

[kopfjäger]

The SS/ST would be a trellis/semi trellis 4v bike with track credability but added touring capability.

Think

What is a semi trellis frame?

[Raux]

What is a semi trellis frame?

I showed that as an example of a 4v SS/ST style

likely will develop a frame similar to the Monster/MTS/Diavel/HM with the trellis/semi-trellis/cast mix.