Poor Mans Brake and Clutch Bleed Technique - okay or no way?

[DarkMonster620]

Yes Sir

threw me off with the 10w40 comment

we have the same bike, I changed levers with OEM slave, had to take the 'whatchamacallit' screw all the way out to be able to shift .  .  . then replaced the slave with the Oberon . . . as long as the 'whatchamacallit' screw was out, I have no issues[if you look at pic from my bike you'll notice I have teh coffin master on clutch side] . . . RCS will be reinstalled when correct line gets here, my screwup

[BK_856er]

If I remember correctly you had your cover or covers off for powder coating.

Make sure your pushrod is not binding up on sealant/gasket/paint.

5th to 2nd sounds weird - does the shift lever move properly and freely?  Mushy light lever (beyond normal mushy light for APTC) does sound like it needs a better bleed.

The ziptie thing takes overnight at least.

BK

[The ModFather]

threw me off with the 10w40 comment

we have the same bike, I changed levers with OEM slave, had to take the 'whatchamacallit' screw all the way out to be able to shift .  .  . then replaced the slave with the Oberon . . . as long as the 'whatchamacallit' screw was out, I have no issues[if you look at pic from my bike you'll notice I have teh coffin master on clutch side] . . . RCS will be reinstalled when correct line gets here, my screwup

What's the watchamacallit Screw?

I failed to mention that the brake fluid I used although proper Dot4 was opened last year when I bled my brakes and although it was sealed as tightly as I could by hand it has been sitting in my garage all winter and summer so I'm gonna refill and bleed with a new bottle of Dot4 in case any moisture has been absorbed by that previously opened bottle.

[DarkMonster620]

the screw that pushed the rod . . still can't remember the name .....

you haven't taken the slave out, correct?

[The ModFather]

I have not but I was ready to swap out the slave tonight and just bleed it. The part I'm always unsure of using this method is should I be completely draining the fluid then adding new fluid or drain most then add new fluid on top before ever really going empty in the reservoir. I thought you never wanted to empty in the reservoir as you then suck air in to your lines.

[DarkMonster620]

I just pour in the new one and pump the old one out at the same time . . . try once one with the OEM slave if it fixes, then swap the slaves . ..  I am sort of mind blocked at this time . .. sorry

the only time I had an issue was when I installed the adjustable lever

[The ModFather]

So I rented a mity-vac from Autozone then I sucked all the fluid out of the reservoir first. Then I drained most of the fuild from the OEM slave with the Mity-Vac. Then I followed the directions that came with the Oberon for install. Very easy and straight forward. It did say to fill the new Oberon clutch slave with fluid once it was mounted prior to transferring the banjo bolt/hose connection from the old to the new which I did. Now when I try and bleed the clutch I get nothing but air bubbles and my reservoir doesnt seem to drain at all. Whether I use the Poor Mans Bleed Technique or the Mity-Vac I get nothing but bubbles (loooks like boiling water in that hose). What's weird too is after a bunch of Mity-Vac suction (which causes a lot of bubbles that continue for a little while) if I re-tighten the bleeder nut assuming this would stop the bubbles I continue to get bubbles till they're done! I'm not completely putting a lot of torque on the bleeder bolt when tightening it but I could swear that in the past when I tightend even if there were bubbles I assumed they couldnt escape. But in the past I never used a Mity-Vac this only happens when I bleed with the Mity Vac. Arggghh... What Gives???

[The ModFather]

one more thing...There was a little "about 1 inch" metal rod that came with the new slave. I assumed this was the extension rod they refferred to in the directions for pre-2000 models (mine is 2005). So I did nothing with that. Was that in error?

[The ModFather]

So when I bleed using the Mity-Vac I get lots of bubbles but very little fluid. When I bleed using the "poor Mans" technique I get very little bubbles but more fluid. I'm confused...

[Ddan]

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you removed all the fluid from the system and now have to get rid of all the air?  Not to be an ass, but you're putting way too much thought and effort into this, it really is a simple process.

I re-read your initial post and I think you're missing a step in the bleed sequence.  What you should be doing is this: squeeze the lever, open the bleed, close the bleed, release the lever. Repeat until you get clean fluid out of the bleeder and no bubbles.  If you have completely drained the system this will take some time and you'll likely have bubbles trapped up high in the master.  Zip-tying the lever to the bar overnight is one way to get those, I've found that a little pressure on the lever and tapping the master with the handle of a screwdriver will also dislodge them, and you'll see them pop up in the reservoir.  Don't let the reservoir get too low and just keep doing the four steps and you will get it bled.  I can't speak for the Mity Vac as I've never used one or seen the need.

[ute]

Agree with above post

A couple of things , banjo is tight ? new copper washers ?

So I bleed same as above but I pump pump pump, hold lever, open bleed screw ( lever retracts ) hold lever, tighten screw pump pump pump repeat ..

also you can bleed at the banjo to eliminate any air in the rezzy do as above but crack the banjo instead of the bleed screw

then do a normal bleed .........this is messy watch your paint ..lots of rags

[The ModFather]

Banjo might be tight .. I didn't torque to a spec just by hand. But I did finally get the might vac to start bleeding it. I wasn't using the rubber L shaped adapter (so your fluid doesn't have to go up and fight gravity. ) With that on I was able to bleed about 3 coffins through. Clutch feels good now and it shifts up just fine but down shifting is still messed up. Better than before but still not right. I seem to only be able to hit 2nd or 3rd when down shifting and I can feel its not all the way down in the shifter. Once I come to a complete stop I can get it down in to 1st and once I shut the engine off I can find neutral.
More bleeding?
Too much fluid? How high should it be in my reservoir? I got a small bubble in the sight glass but its pretty small.
Do I need to bleed the Master Cylinder? Seems like a messy pain with no bleeder valve. Not even sure how I'd go about this.
Overnight zip tie tonight.
Taking it in for the 12k service in 2days so I could have the dealer resolve it but I can pretty much count on it costing me an extra $100 on top of $800 for the 12k service so I'd rather do it myself.

[wankski]

hi mate,

sorry i can't help you with your problem just yet... i'm a bit confused as to what you did exactly..... the mityvacs can be a bit of an issue and personally i don't like them...

on the moto, i use a large syringe and reverse flush the system... it works real well as you evacuate the air in the syringe and line FIRST, and then push the fluid from the lowest point (slave) to the highest point (MC).... in this way, you are working with the natural tendency of the bubbles to rise and not fighting against it...

when the MC fills up with fluid and no bubbles emanate from the aperture, you are done  .

best of all, the 100cc syringe and line was like $5 on ebay. too easy.

I'm making a guide on timing belts at the moment, but i'll aim to post one about flushing and bleeding in that case....

sorry, i couldn't be more help to you now.

[The ModFather]

hi mate,

sorry i can't help you with your problem just yet... i'm a bit confused as to what you did exactly..... the mityvacs can be a bit of an issue and personally i don't like them...

on the moto, i use a large syringe and reverse flush the system... it works real well as you evacuate the air in the syringe and line FIRST, and then push the fluid from the lowest point (slave) to the highest point (MC).... in this way, you are working with the natural tendency of the bubbles to rise and not fighting against it...

when the MC fills up with fluid and no bubbles emanate from the aperture, you are done  .

Thanks that would be great!!


best of all, the 100cc syringe and line was like $5 on ebay. too easy.

I'm making a guide on timing belts at the moment, but i'll aim to post one about flushing and bleeding in that case....

sorry, i couldn't be more help to you now.

[ute]

To bleed the MC/Rezzy  do the same as you would at the nipple

Pump pump pump , crack the banjo fluid will ouzz out ( very Messy ) lever will retract to bar hold close up banjo repeat 4x times

this bleeds the MC

then you have to bleed the line as normal

you should have zero bubbles in the MC , level should be 3/4 - 7/8 full