no start m696-dashboard promblem[RESOLVED]

[kokis]

Hi guys.
Problem again.
Monster 696. I have Li-ion ballistic battery it was OK for 3-4month. But then, bike would not start from first attempt. It clicked once or twice then start. Week or two later it was click 5-6 times then start. Few days before it was 10-15 clicks before start.
After bike warm up, or even 1 minute after start I could restart bike without single click.
Battery voltage never dropped below 12V as shown on dashboard. 13.5V on 4000rmp.
So I managed to charge it with charger. I have "cigaret lighter" outlet connected directly to battery, so I took cellphone charger, cut the wires and use it to connect charger to bike.(I believe it was mistake as that kind of travel charges has some stepdown convertion)
Next day voltage on dash was the same but bike clicks and no start at all.
Had to start it manually on 2nd gear.

Today I took off tank. Cleaned battery connections, somewhat refreshed starter relay (released nuts a bit and slide connections back and forward and secured nut back), cleaned frame ground cable connections(2 of them on one place) , somewhat cleaned frame connection house, and starter connection. It did not made any sense.
I checked voltage on battery meter and was showing 13V and seemed OK . I tried another battery, it was old-school and discharged to 10.3V. Few starter clicks and bike reboot as normal at low battery.

What should I do next?
Is there any other connections I need to check?
Any suggestions before I drop my bike to service?
I will try to recharge battery again but not today as I don't have recharger handy.

[Howie]

Besides not having enough voltage output to charge your battery at that amperage it would take a week of Sundays to charge, if ever.  13 volts on a Li Ion battery is close to completely discharged.  Fully charge the battery and test.  Diagnosis of a starting system with a less than a close to full charged battery is like pissing up a rope.

You will never fully charge that battery without the aid of cell balancing circuitry.  You will come close enough though.  From Ballistic   http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/charging.php  Go through this too   http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/faq.php

[sgollapalle]

Battery voltage never dropped below 12V as shown on dashboard. 13.5V on 4000rmp.

Check what it is before cranking the bike, I bet it would have been much less.

Since you went thru the trouble of pulling the battery out, you could take it to a local auto place and have them charge it up overnight for you.

[kokis]

howie
I did not find some kind of proof for your words at links you listed.
Here is video my problem was like before only way to start bike was left is to push it on gear.


When my bike was ok to start at summer btw battery Voltage was the same.

I will check starter relay.
Will update topic soon.

[Howie]

EVO2 50 (100-009) â€" 5A @ 13.2-14.4V until the battery registers 14.4V.
4 Cell EVO 2 (100-010) â€" 10A @ 13.2-14.4V for until the battery registers 14.4V.
8 Cell EVO 2 (100-011) â€" 20A @ 13.2-14.4V for until the battery registers 14.4V.
12 Cell EVO 2 (100-012) â€" 20A @ 13.2-14.4V for until the battery registers 14.4V.
16 Cell EVO 2 (100-013) â€" 20A @ 13.2-14.4V for until the battery registers 14.4V.

Looks like it says 14.4 volts is fully charged

Do not charge a Ballistic Performance Component Battery above 14.4 Volts. This will damage the battery. Resting voltage of a charged EVO2 battery should be between 13.2v â€" 13.7v.

The 13 volts you are reading, though not significantly less and I do agree, that if the battery is good your bike should start.  The problem is voltage tells you state of charge, not capacity.  Capacity is the battery's capability to store the amperage (current) needed to start the vehicle. Only a load test will tell you that and I have yet to see any info on load testing a lithium ion battery. Maybe a look at the video on the bottom of the page about charging the battery is more useful than watching a sales material.

Easiest next step would be to substitute a known good battery and see what happens, not a battery that is close to stone dead.  If the bike now starts, check charging rate (use a real volt meter).  If the charging rate is good give Ballistic a call.

Do I need to use a Trickle Charger?
The answer is no you do not need to use a Trickle Charger, but you can. Because of the high discharge rate of a lead-acid battery they require a regular maintenance charge in order to remain functioning. A Ballistic Performance Components Battery only discharges at a rate of 10% per year of static use compared to a discharge rate of almost 1% per day of a traditional lead-acid battery, and thus they require no maintenance charge. You may need to use a trickle charger if your vehicle has a parasitic draw (like an alarm) that draws energy from the battery when the switch is turned off. In this case, the trickle charger will simply be used to run the parasitic draw. If you do use a Trickle Charger, it will not hurt the battery as long as it has an auto shut off at 14.4volts. Overcharging any battery will cause the battery to fail.

Your bike does have an immobilizer, a problem in long term storage, otherwise not, particularly with the notably lower discharge rate. 

[kokis]

Well, I got my bike to my tech buddy and did all tests. Ballistic battery was 13V and 9A on tester. Some may think it is not enough but direct input from battery to starter relay output - starts bike without any problem.
Bike would not start from another 13V 9A lead-acid battery, still clicks and nothing.
We made a lot of manipulations and tried to add power directly to starter contactor holes

And as I remember it did started engine so starter relay is not problem.
We even checked start button and added power to it from battery and still just clicks.
And also I checked with tester power on ground(-) - it is ok 13v 9A.
Some power loss(?) somewhere??? between battery - CPU- starter contactor - starter relay. But where??




some help will be really appreciated

And today I discovered that for some reason turn signals died when I was driving to my buddy. Turn signal indicator on dashboard turns on and after one-two seconds start flashing rapidly. Can't find lights relay to check. No power to signals relay?
Is it somehow related?

[Raux]

you might have a dead regulater or stator

[ChrisK]

I didn't realize that you had a separate thread going so I replied to your comment in the other thread about batteries going on right now, but here is what I said, copied below:


I had similar symptoms last fall and since I found the fix, I tell anyone with similar symptoms to try what I had to do. Check the three wires (mine were yellow) that run from your alternator cover to your regulator/rectifier. Mine were burnt and melted so bad that at one point all three wires were touching each other. This was a sign that the rectifier had gone bad. I fixed the wires, replaced the rectifier and I've been golden ever since.

[kokis]

Thanks guys,
RR seems the only thing I never checked. Will update.

[kokis]

No it is not RR..
Wires are OK. According to electric scheme there is power loss between ECU and starter contactor\relay..
Don't know what to think.

[kokis]

Changed starter relay - no help. not enough power comes to starter relay trigger.
Will open dash board and check if something wrong with it.
I am afraid it will end up with alternative handmade bypass ECU start circuit.

[kokis]

Finally electrician buddy found something.
He said over the phone that it is SMD(or SMB) chip resistor (or register) for 0.0x Ohm which is burnt... As I understood in dashboard.
And he is willing to replace it.
Don't know what is it and how it happened but I hope it will solve the case.

[lillo]

the might sound stupid but i had your same problem... brought it to the dealer and they found no problem. I went home and say that I had to change oil.... i did that 10w40 full sythentic and after it started up just fine. never had the issue again.

[kokis]

Oil will not cause turn lights failure.
As I was told that smd resistor on main board of dash board started to degrade because of moisture and symptoms started to occur. My further manipulations with voltage\batteries fried it completely.
Well, waiting for replacement resistor to be delivered and installed.
will keep thread updated.

[kokis]

Finally replacing R200 0.2OMh SMD resistor on dashboard's board made bike start and turn signals work.

But the guy said that my ballistic battery died. Don't know why, may be because  of multiple start attemps or incorrect re-charge procedure. But guy says that battery does not charges from bike and from charger. It may start bike one-two times than it would not turn starter. He says that battery needs replacement and it is better to run on cheap new battery than run with this one, as it may cause R\R death or some other electric problems.

No problem starting with another battery.
Guy is not familiar with Li-ion batteries and may not know that this kind of battery reaction is ok and it will get back to normal after couple rides.
So is my current battery ok and it will get back to normal after couple rides?