Best monster engine for elefant?

[DustBuster]

I own a cousin of the ducati monster, a cagiva 650 elefant. Came stock with a 650 Pantah engine. Well I am in the process of a full remake and want to put a modern fuel injected engine in, obviously I will need injection, ignition and wire harness too. I have been considering a 695 which would seem to be the easiest fit size wise or an 800 which has been used as a replacement in 750 elefants. Since the elefant will be used for off road, smooth tractable power is more important than raw horsepower. Any feedback on suitability of the engines listed or any others would be appreciated.

[koko64]

Ducatiz  has an E650, maybe he'll chime in.
Will be interesting to see which larger motors fit the early "airbox" style frame.

[Speeddog]

Fitment wise, no difference between 695 and 800, it's the same motor other than the crank and pistons.

[Dirty Duc]

Somewhere in the vicinity of the 2000s, the engine mounting bolt size changed.  I would assume it also changed for any Elefants that may have been available on the world market. 

Year of the bike would be good here.

[He Man]

I will sell you a Single Spark m1100 EVO motor with a custom map for that motor (dyno tuned) with injectors, with throttle body and with TPO BEAST-R kit, if you think it will fit. Motors got less than 3k on it.

It isnt tuned for raw horepower ( i think i the motor is capable of 100RWP with the right exhaust system on it). I have dyno maps to go.

the only issue is that the ECU is keyed to the gauges, (ill throw in the gauges for free) but you can also unlock it from the gauges if it pleases you.

SOrry for the plug in, but id like to see that motor go somewhere cool.

[Howie]

Engine swap is relatively easy, you will need to modify the frame for 12mm motor bolts verses the 10 you have OEM.  Wiring the bike up for fuel injection will be the bigger problem though.  Plus you will need a high pressure pump, pressure regulator and the ability to return excess fuel.  Maybe a tank (if you can find one) from an Elefant 900IE?  Duck-Stew did this on a Monster several years ago.  He might be able to clue you in on the difficulty and give you some hints.  I'm a fan of fuel injection, but, in this case, would strongly consider a set of FCR carbs.

[DustBuster]

Thanks for all of the input. I figured in order to convert to fuel injection I would need the donor bikes wiring harness and probably gauges.  The 650 elefant tank has a petcock on both sides, it was suggested that I could use an external fuel pump and use one side as the fuel return. Drilling the frame to 12mm would be easy enough. I will have to figure out if an 1100 would fit, thinking about the height of the rear cylinder, I would assume it is taller than the stock 650 Pantah?

[zooom]

where are you located....

I have a Cagiva Gran Canyon that I am looking to sell if you want to use it as a donor

[koko64]

As you know the frame backbone tube is also a plenum for the airbox on the older 650/750 models. Its substantial and I'm not sure a 900+ motor would fit, but ducatiz should know. Sounds like an 800 fits (the big small case). A long manifold carb motor will have to run short manifolds to clear the air tubes that exit the backbone/plenum .

It might be cheaper to fit a late 750 motor, if you dont need too much power. You could run a bigger motor but use your Dellortos and short manifolds. I know a guy who has an E650 and E750 Bifaro and he says the 32mm CV Bings on the 750 (and stock pipe) strangle it terribly. So the early 750 really seems undercarbed. This guy says the 650, despite its small valves and less capacity is much more responsive with the 36mm Dellortos. I was going to buy his Bifaro 750 and use 39mm Mikuni flatslides (TM38).

I think using a carbed 750 motor would be much easier letting you use your normal ignition, carbs, etc.

[ducpainter]

ducvet, a member here is in the process of doing the same. I believe he's chosen a 750 carby.

You can email him eric at clubhousemotorsports dot com. to get his thoughts.

[koko64]

Be good to see what he builds.

[DustBuster]

I really would like to go fuel injected, I also own a 510 husky which is FI and it makes a world of difference in fuel economy and ride ability at altitude. My 650 Pantah engine only has 5,300 miles on it so if I were to stay with carbs I would probably just put that back in...so it sounds like a 695 or 800 are most likely to adapt to my in frame air box, I need to find one and get some dimensions of throttle body height in relationship to engine mount points and compare.

[Dirty Duc]

Horizontal TB:
the inlet faces toward the rear of the bike with the 2D of the hole canted at 24 degrees from level.  The rear of the inlet hole is 5 inches above the mounting bolt.

The vertical TB faces to the front of the bike and is extends ~3 1/8 inch ahead of the mounting bolt.  The highest point on the system is the fuel "hat" for the vertical cylinder.  It is about 1.5 inches above the 5 inch measurement for the horizontal throttle body.

S2R800...

[the_Journeyman]

I have an issue with the fuel economy being the reason for avoiding carbs.  My M750 often gets better fuel mileage that a lot of people report on here from similar sized motors.  I turn in 35mpg commuting on a tank (never above 35MPH, lots of stop and go) to 45+mpg when out on a ride (plenty of higher speeds, lots of hard acceleration and such).

Jm

[brad black]

I thought the elefant cases were different at the swingarm pivot?  width?