How to: GuzziDiag/Tunerpro for Ducs

[impulsive_duc]

It's not that big a deal, a MPPS cable costs the same and does the same job. (~$20, plus MPPS does more "things").
The issue at hand is this is a homebrew project, and Bernd puts in a lot of effort to make it more friendly for end-Riders.

Using MPPS is a bit of a pain.
And although I whine to Bernd about it, GuzziDiag is more for Guzzis than Ducatis.

Please click the "Donate" button in GuzziDiag, if it comes up in the wrong language, please use this link for US/English:

Click to donate to GuzziDiag author so he continues to support his work!  

[klausl]

Hello impulsive_duc!
I'm not a shop owner and and I work not for a bike shop.
I work for a chemical fab.
I own my Duc since February this year and very happy with it.
I have problems since I modified my duc: No O2 Sensor, No catalyzer, oper air box, Mufflers with dB Eater,
modiefied ECU by Daniele Moto, Power Commander 3;
My duc runs a instable idle when the engine is hot. Sometimes the idle hang up at 3000 RPM.
I bought the ECU used from a German Ducati Forum Member.
I also have a second stock ECU from a S2R1000.
With this ECU I want to exclude a damaged Daniele Moto ECU.
I hope my english is understandable 
Bye,
Klaus

[impulsive_duc]

Upload a ZIP at this link containing:
(1) your firmware BIN
(2) a .TXT describing your bike/ECU (Year, Model, ECU changes, etc.)
(3) photos of the top and bottom of your ECU's PAPER stickers and
(4) the LOG files GuzziDiag makes
http://dbinbox.com/Impulsive_Duc

Klaus, your English is fine.
But you never said what bike you have. (Year, Model, Type?)  

Please do the above, and send me for:
(a) Your current (M1000 or S2R1000) Danielle Moto (aka Rexxer) ECU-- explain anything specific about your Rexxer flash
(b) Your "spare" S2R1000 ECU (Stock? DP?)
(c) Your PowerCommander PC3 .DJM map

^^ I made my own utility to permanently add PC3 maps into ECU firmware ^^
After you use the PC3 to dyno it/make it run OK, you can merge the maps and remove it.

If you give me the PC3 map I will see if I can "add it" to the firmware.
You will then be able to see what the TOTAL fueling looks like as a 3D graph in the XDF.
(Assuming a previous XDF works.)
This I will do as a one-time favor.

You should probably learn to make the XDF yourself.
I will only check to see if one of the pre-existing ones work, and will let you know.
I will not make a new XDF, it is too much work.

I will not disable the immobilizer for you.
I suspect your "spare" ECU is a stock one and therefore is Red-Keyed, and will not start your bike.
I would need to make an XDF to do that, and it is too much work.

Finally, I cannot help you write the ECU if it is a 59M.
GuzziDiag does not support 59M's (yet).
Send a donation to Bernd and politely ask, and maybe he'll be inclined to work on it faster.

However, I can still check the BIN to make sure it is OK.
(Assuming a previous XDF works.)

[klausl]

Hey impulsive_duc !

Thank you for supporting me. On Saturday I do a great ride in the alps. But I already have the Problems with a instable idel on my
S2R1000 from 2006 
So Yesterday I took my sparepart ECU from a S2R1000 with disabled immo.
I took out the catalyzer control in the bin with TP and wrote it back to the ECU.
And it works  without a yellow lamp.
After TPS reset and setting the idle withe the adjusting screws it runs with a cold engine.
Today I will test it during a ride.
I will post my experience an will send you my bins.
Thanks a lot!

Bye,
Klaus

[impulsive_duc]

Klaus, thanks for the updated files. I've sorted out the XDFs and e-mailed you.

I am posting here for two reasons:

First, I'm plugging the Wiki I set up to handle user-made contributions to XDFs.
Please contribute your user-made XDFs or make corrections here:
use the "(MM 5AMHW610) Ducati SportClassic Biposto / S4RS / M695 / S2R1000" article as a template.

Motorcycle Tuning XDF Wiki
http://motoxdf.wikia.com/

Second, I found something really silly on Ducati's part... take a look at one of my XDF's titles at this point:
The microcode is almost 100% identical between them. I believe the term for this scenario is "Parts bin bike"?

5AM_(Stock&DP)_Ducati_SC1000_BIPOSTO_(28641281D 96518407B)_S4RS_(28641461A 96517906B)__M695_(28641591A 96517807B)_S2R1000_(28641481A)_V1.39b.xdf

[xsephirot]

Klaus, thanks for the updated files. I've sorted out the XDFs and e-mailed you.

I am posting here for two reasons:

First, I'm plugging the Wiki I set up to handle user-made contributions to XDFs.
Please contribute your user-made XDFs or make corrections here:
use the "(MM 5AMHW610) Ducati SportClassic Biposto / S4RS / M695 / S2R1000" article as a template.

Second, I found something really silly on Ducati's part... take a look at one of my XDF's titles at this point:
The microcode is almost 100% identical between them. I believe the term for this scenario is "Parts bin bike"?

I'm looking on the Wiki and I see  the S2R800 XDF listed as under the 5am. However when I go into the hosted file server, there is no s2r800 under the 5am XDF folder. Am I missing something?

[cbcanada]

Good thread

[B.Cocq]

WARNING: From the image posted, your XDF is inappropriate for your BIN and you will corrupt your ECU firmware by editing values randomly.

I say this because your fuel map is misaligned. You can tell by the abrupt changes in values -- an improperly aligned table looks like a TV with part of the image cut off the top, and sticking up from the bottom. That is exactly what I see in your image. Graphing the map by clicking the "graph" icon will show abrupt changes in the fuel map demonstrating this.

Another indicator is your TPS values (the X-coordinate in the top row of the table) are garbage. They go from 15 to 0 to 100 randomly. They SHOULD go from around 3-degrees to 89-degrees in a linear fashion.

Each ECU Ducati makes is slightly different, and has the maps stored at different "offsets".
I have found it is safer to pair a single XDF with a single Ducati ECU model number. A single bike may have multiple ECU models numbers. They are usually printed on two paper stickers on the ECU, with additional information on foil stickers beneath them.
Furthermore, the XDF needs to be VALIDATED by someone who knows what they are doing.

However, sometimes even this varies due to Italian coding.
Creating XDF's is a bit of an art and is very time consuming. People such as me do it on a case-by-case basis.
Most others also (usually) PASSWORD-PROTECT their XDF file to prevent others from stealing their work. So (usually) you cannot correct the XDF yourself, and have to work from scratch.

Bernd, Pauldaytona, and myself are exceptions. We share our work openly. In fact, the SportClassic maps on GuzziDiag are the ones I developed in conjunction with Pauldaytona.

If the maps are mis-located, the Lambda setting will also be mis-located. You are changing random numbers in the firmware.

I strongly suspect your evaluation was "placebo effect". The narrowband sensor probably went into error-fault mode due to not receiving a signal.

Please send me your BIN and a picture of the top and bottom stickers on your ECU and I will try to tell you which XDF is appropriate, or perhaps create a new one if necessary.

An an aside, I need to compile a database of ECU firmwares if I am to assist in making XDFs for them.

Upload a ZIP at this link containing: (1) your firmware BIN (2) a .TXT describing your bike/ECU (3) photos of the top and bottom of your ECU's PAPER stickers and (4) the LOG files GuzziDiag makes
http://dbinbox.com/Impulsive_Duc

If I have time, I will construct an appropriate XDF for any BINs placed there (that follow instructions!!) and host it in this folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/20hb4nqnxjqqbbw/AAAv6gjgypsWrCjm4yp-A2F9a

Thank you very much for your offer, impulsive_duc I just uploaded my *.bin file and a photo taken from my ECU of my 1198. I've already tried the *.xdf files from the GuzziDiag page, but there are always implausible values in some tables. However, some tables seem to be correct, at least the values make sense. So somehow we need to create a new *.xdf file combining different *.xdf files from other ECU models which partly fit. But how can we assure that table values, which seem to be plausible, really reference to the appropriate registers of the ECU? In addition, none of the *.xdf files shows my lambda sensor being enabled, but actually it is. All in all, it seems to be kinda risky, because some tables describe very similar values.

Thanks for any help

[impulsive_duc]

I just uploaded my *.bin file and a photo taken from my ECU of my 1198. I've already tried the *.xdf files from the GuzziDiag page, but there are always implausible values in some tables. However, some tables seem to be correct, at least the values make sense.

I took a look. Seems like an EU spec stock 2009 1198 ECU (28641761A).
"V1.27 5AM 1198 328641831D" from the GuzziDiag page loads the values correctly.
Pauldaytona developed that XDF, so contact him for further assistance.

In addition, none of the *.xdf files shows my lambda sensor being enabled, but actually it is.

I only took a brief look because Pauldaytona's XDF seemed OK. However, on closer inspection the three "Lambda" flags in his XDF are defined incorrectly and never would have worked. They point to a blank region of the firmware. He needs to fix that. I found where they are, but won't post it for a very specific reason:

• Why would you try to disable lambda in the stock ECU? Why not just flash the DP Termi Slipon firmware instead? That doesn't use lambda to begin with.

The firmware you likely want is "DP ECU firmware for 2009-2010 1198 Termi Slipons" (96520109B). However, that is significantly different from the firmware you are running!!!
If I were in your shoes, I'd try using "DP ECU firmware for 2009-2010 1198S Termi Slipons" (28641911A) first. That is very, very similar to your stock firmware. (~98% similar)

Be careful the version you pick has the same DTC (on/off) as your bike. You didn't give me any information about your bike, I am guessing from the firmware.
If anything goes wrong, restore from the backup.

[B.Cocq]

Thank you for checking out my firmware file

So first of all, I don't intend disabling my lambda sensor, because I don't see an advantage in doing that. I've always assumed that the lambda sensor is an important part for adjusting the fuel-air mixture. So I don't understand how a bike can run flawlessly or even better with disabled lambdas than with enabled ones. Maybe you can lift this little secret for me  

And the main reason why I came here is because I removed the cats from my stock exhausts and also mechanically disabled the stupid exhaust valve to get a better sound on by bike. But then in many forums I've heard that I need a new ECU mapping, because my bike might be run too leanly due to this modification.

Your idea of using a Termi Slipon firmware sounds nice, but I'm not sure if it fits best to my current hardware-exhaust configuration, because I'm not using termis but only modified stock exhausts. So do you think there's almost no difference between Termi Slipons compared to my current modified exhaust system? And where do I get the Termi Slipon firmware from?

Another point is that I'm not sure if the downloaded firmware file I got by using the GuzziReader is complete and bug-free. I didn't get any errors but it took about 15 minutes to download it and now I'm not sure if that went well. So if I flash the ECU with the termi firmware I won't be able to go back to the stock state, assuming that my backup is not consistent, you know..

I haven't done any modifications to the software of the ECU so far, because I don't have that much experience with ECU controlled bikes.

Do you need some specific information about my bike? It's just a Ducati 1198 from 2009 with the modifications I mentioned above.

Cheers & Thanks
BCocq

//Edit
Meanwhile I reopened the stock cans and also removed the mufflers, so the cans are completely emtpy except for the damping wool inside.

[impulsive_duc]

I took a look. Seems like an EU spec (at youre stock ECU) stock 2009 1198 ECU (28641761A).
"V1.27 5AM 1198 328641831D" from the GuzziDiag page loads the values correctly.
Pauldaytona developed that XDF, so contact him for further assistance.
(...)
The firmware you likely want is "DP ECU firmware for 2009-2010 1198 Termi Slipons" (96520109B). However, that is significantly different from the firmware you are running!!!
If I were in your shoes, I'd try using "DP ECU firmware for 2009-2010 1198S Termi Slipons" (28641911A) first. That is very, very similar to your stock firmware. (~98% similar)

Your PM has magically summoned me. But I thought I answered your question already?
Your backup seems perfectly intact to me.
Lambda sensors tweak fueling, but to the wrong ends. They cause bikes to run excessively lean. It is better for engine-health to remove them and convert to an "open-loop" map, but please consult your local municipality if it is permitted for street use.

Even the DP map is inaopriate for DP bikes.
I datalogged a DP map for a SC Mono and found fueling needed to be cut by about 30% across the board, except at WoT. Way too rich.
However, I recommend the DP map by default because of one thing: any values between "stock" and "DP" is guaranteed safe.
I even wrote a utility that uses a little (%) slider allowing me to create a new firmware by selecting much Stock (%) and how much DP (%) "character" I want.
However, that is left as an exercise for the reader.

Running lean is far more dangerous than running rich. Given your current modifications, my original recommendations remain valid.
But they are only that -- recommendations. Any changes fall on you to take responsibility for.
I am unsure what models/years had DTC enabled, but try the map and check the ECU errors. If it complains about "no DTC", try another map.
Per the advice of the venerable and knowledgeable chrisw, if you have the base 2009 1198 model, you ABSOLUTELY want the firmware labeled "96520109B".
If you want to retrofit DTC and DQS, that is also an option. Details in thread:
http://ducatiforum.co.uk/forum/threads/which-dp-ecu-for-2009-1198-base-model.28262/

You can obtain the BIN if someone has uploaded it at the Open-Source Firmware Repository. The link is on the Wiki ( http://motoxdf.wikia.com ) along with XDFs.
If you correct your stock ECU's XDF so the lambdas show up properly, please consider submitting the corrected XDF to the Wiki.
There are far too many ECU's for me to ever hope to make all the XDF myself.

PS: There is a new, better, more proper guide to TunerPro use at the WildGuzzi forum.
I strongly suggest using that guide instead.
I likely cannot continue reading three forums for updates, so ongoing individual help may be limited.
There are bigger fish to fry, so to speak -- but I will respond if able.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73938.0

[B.Cocq]

Lambda sensors tweak fueling, but to the wrong ends. They cause bikes to run excessively lean. It is better for engine-health to remove them and convert to an "open-loop" map, but please consult your local municipality if it is permitted for street use.

Oh, I knew there was something wrong with these lambda sensors  . So am I right, that if I disable the lambdas the ECU will use the statically defined fuel maps without being manipulated by the lambdas during the drive? That would mean I could disable the lambdas in my stock firmware file, if I didn't find some appropriate termi slip-on firmware, right?

Per the advice of the venerable and knowledgeable chrisw, if you have the base 2009 1198 model, you ABSOLUTELY want the firmware labeled "96520109B".
You can obtain the BIN if someone has uploaded it at the Open-Source Firmware Repository. The link is on the Wiki ( http://motoxdf.wikia.com ) along with XDFs.

I searched for the firmware file on the ftp-server http://www.irok.org/ftp/Ducati%20Tuning/ but I couldn't find one which is labeled like you mentioned above. Here is what I found

2237B37SNPZ_1098s_slipon_DP.bin
2237B37SNPZ_1098s_slipon_DP.bin.txt
28641571C_Superbike 848 Stock US.bin
28641571C_Superbike 848 Stock US.bin.txt
3213B13PT64_2009 Ducati 1198 Stock (Base model).bin
3213B13PT64_2009 Ducati 1198 Stock (Base model).bin.txt
321818PU017_2010_848_Evo_OEM_IAW5AMHW610.bin
321818PU017_2010_848_Evo_OEM_IAW5AMHW610.bin.txt
3220B20MA14_2011 Ducati 1198 Stock (DTC DQS).bin
3220B20MA14_2011 Ducati 1198 Stock (DTC DQS).bin.txt
32A0BA0SCA2_96520611B_2013_SF_848_DP_Slip_Ons.bin
32A0BA0SCA2_96520611B_2013_SF_848_DP_Slip_Ons.bin.txt
32A0BA0SCB2_SF_848_DP_70mm.bin
32A0BA0SCB2_SF_848_DP_70mm.bin.txt
96520311B_2011 Ducati 1198 DP Termi (DTC DQS).bin
96520311B_2011 Ducati 1198 DP Termi (DTC DQS).bin.txt

So maybe I missed it somewhere or you could send it to me somehow if you knew other repositories

If you correct your stock ECU's XDF so the lambdas show up properly, please consider submitting the corrected XDF to the Wiki.

I edited the xdf file "5AM_Ducati_1198_328641831D_V1.27.xdf" by Pauldaytona and first corrected the null-pointer reference of the lambda sensor 1 and 2. So now it points to the correct offset area, specially for my bike's ECU. Additionally, I added some tables, such as the "Dash Welcome Text" and the Fan 1 & 2 Temp. I will upload it as soon as possible  

I am unsure what models/years had DTC enabled, but try the map and check the ECU errors. If it complains about "no DTC", try another map.

Couldn't I easily disable DTC and DQS in the newly flashed firmware file instead, if there was an error? Would that work? I think my bike doesn't have any of these functions.

Thanks  

[impulsive_duc]

I'd recommend just using the SlipOn firmware as-is when you can find it. They will be "good enough" and you are not mucking with Lambda settings. Then consider changes later once you get a datalogger or if you have lots of backfiring.

May I ask how you know where the Lambdas are even located? Typically that involves a LOT of work.
Thank you very much for considering top help others by fixing the XDF on the Wiki. I'm sure Pauldaytona would say thanks too.

I've gone ahead and created the article template for you to modify for "5AM_Ducati_1198_328641831D_V1.27.xdf".
Just take off the note about it being the "GuzziDiag reference copy" when you modify it.

http://motoxdf.wikia.com/wiki/%28MM_5AMHW610%29_Ducati_1198_Stock_%28M/n_28641--%29

No, that is the only open-source repository. I know someone with that ECU but I can't bug him.
I do this as a job, and my hobby stops at the front door.
I use an entirely different set of tools for work which are infinitely more expensive. (Literally. )

Yes, you could disable DQS and DTC, but then you would have a "bastardized" custom firmware that may cause grief for others later. As odd as it sounds, "keep it stock, don't mess with it" applies. Unless you have a wideband O2 datalogger, or there is something very specific you want to go in and change (like the Dash text), it is best to leave the "default" DP maps well enough alone. They had an entire team of engineers develop it. It's only a matter of picking which matches your setup most closely.

You can wait for a professionally dynoed map when it becomes available. There are enough corrupt, bad, and "seat of the pants" adjusted maps as-is. Anything with my special "Bin descriptor" txt file should be a reference, unmolested map. Anything else I can't vouch for.

[B.Cocq]

May I ask how you know where the Lambdas are even located? Typically that involves a LOT of work.
Thank you very much for considering top help others by fixing the XDF on the Wiki. I'm sure Pauldaytona would say thanks too.

Well, I kept watching for similar patterns I found in other firmware files where the lambdas seemed to be referenced correctly.

I've gone ahead and created the article template for you to modify for "5AM_Ducati_1198_328641831D_V1.27.xdf".
Just take off the note about it being the "GuzziDiag reference copy" when you modify it.

http://motoxdf.wikia.com/wiki/%28MM_5AMHW610%29_Ducati_1198_Stock_%28M/n_28641--%29

I changed the relevant parts of the xdf file entry in your wiki. I'm not sure if my changes make sense for others because the locations for the different components may surely differ from bike to bike. At least for me it might be correct. Further, there are still some tables which are probably useless, even for me.

[impulsive_duc]

You are the first person to actually contribute an XDF edit to the wiki in its three months of operation. Congratulations!

And yep, that is exactly how you find where something is. Just be a little careful, sometimes it doesn't line up just right. There are some models where the Lambda signature "says" there should be a Lambda, but there really isn't. Just be extra cautious when adapting XDFs across models.

Temperature tables tend to be 16x something, RPM are 32x something, TPS are 20x something. The "guess" of what the table is can come from those dimensions. (16x32? Must be some kind of Temperature-RPM graph. etc)