Fantasy Ducati Thumper

[kopfjäger]

[ducatiz]

Tell me again why Ducati can't make a modern single that has that width and 500cc?

[Dirty Duc]

Tell me again why Ducati can't make a modern single that has that width and 500cc?

To spite all the Desmotista who say they want one, but wouldn't buy one if it really existed.

[ducatiz]

To spite all the Desmotista who say they want one, but wouldn't buy one if it really existed.

It's very simple.  Come up with a design, offer it for pre-buying and see how many people will chalk up $3-4000 and commit to buying it when it comes.  If they don't buy, they lose their money, if it's not made within a reasonable time, they get their money back.

I'm all in.  Make it ~300lbs and 60 hp and i'm good.  They can do it.  The 600ss was 175kg dry.  That's with no carbon fibre or lightweight components.  They could do it.

[kopfjäger]

This is the one that Bryan kept.

[Dirty Duc]

It's very simple.  Come up with a design, offer it for pre-buying and see how many people will chalk up $3-4000 and commit to buying it when it comes.  If they don't buy, they lose their money, if it's not made within a reasonable time, they get their money back.

I'm all in.  Make it ~300lbs and 60 hp and i'm good.  They can do it.  The 600ss was 175kg dry.  That's with no carbon fibre or lightweight components.  They could do it.

I think that only works for engines that already have EPA/ECE certification... which is a pretty substantial cost even for a "boutique" bike... once production numbers get above whatever the cut-off is (~1500?), it's no longer boutique and has to do the whole testing cycle. And that's just the US requirement... I don't know what the level of ECE testing looks like.

And they have to compete with KTM, Beta and Husqvarna...

[ducatiz]

I think that only works for engines that already have EPA/ECE certification... which is a pretty substantial cost even for a "boutique" bike... once production numbers get above whatever the cut-off is (~1500?), it's no longer boutique and has to do the whole testing cycle. And that's just the US requirement... I don't know what the level of ECE testing looks like.

And they have to compete with KTM, Beta and Husqvarna...

All good points.  They would have to design a bottom end that reuses a lot of components like they did with the mono, but all the regulatory issues.... I get it.  Do a small boutique run and see how it goes.. :-)

[Raux]

I think that only works for engines that already have EPA/ECE certification... which is a pretty substantial cost even for a "boutique" bike... once production numbers get above whatever the cut-off is (~1500?), it's no longer boutique and has to do the whole testing cycle. And that's just the US requirement... I don't know what the level of ECE testing looks like.

And they have to compete with KTM, Beta and Husqvarna...

http://www.duccutters.com/richardfelkins-520Single.tpl#.VoSXU7JMHbU

Seems like its not as hard as its made out to be.

[Speeddog]

http://www.duccutters.com/richardfelkins-520Single.tpl#.VoSXU7JMHbU

Seems like its not as hard as its made out to be.

He was talking about issues relevant to production of street legal bikes, not one-off race bikes.

[Dirty Duc]

He was talking about issues relevant to production of street legal bikes, not one-off race bikes.

Right, production (OEM) street bikes, not bikes that have been modified from EPA certification.

http://www.duccutters.com/richardfelkins-520Single.tpl#.VoSXU7JMHbU

Seems like its not as hard as its made out to be.

Besides, I thought you were following the supercharged single...

Somebody with the power want to slice this slight threadjack off into a separate thread?  

Ducatiz's wish is technically and it appears legally possible... I just know I can't do all the work... and Ducati doesn't appear to want to do it for the "hard" certification.

Like, for example, Motus... who is not on the "certified" motorcycle engine producer list for 2016.

[Speeddog]

I can slice it off, what do you want the title to be?

Fantasy Ducati Thumper?

[Dirty Duc]

I can slice it off, what do you want the title to be?

Fantasy Ducati Thumper?

Uh... sure?  I just feel that we are impinging on the "cool" factor by talking about annoying technicalities. (never mind the world's fastest Monster engine from an S4RS in a custom red frame)

[Speeddog]

No worries.

Yes, definitely deserves a seperate thread.

[Dirty Duc]

Thanks, Speeddog!

Now, let's cause trouble... who's in?

Maximum production is 3000 bikes a year "manufactured" (which in EPA speak also means imported) in the US per year.  That means total, all models, all engine families, etc.

The only competitor with current "certification" for 2016 is KTM at ~$10.5k.

With the wailing and gnashing of teeth at VAG due to recalls and such, the old air-cooled sand-cast tooling should come up for sale soon?

[Speeddog]

Which tooling are you talking about?

Also....

60HP out of a production 500 is ambitious.
KTM can get 50 out of a production 500.