WAYWARD 1998 944SS - NEEDS HELP

[Brid]

I'd have the owner register it so you can do a proper road test and diagnosis of the symptoms. It's pretty tough to figure out what needs to be done when all you have is a short street with lots of traffic.

At some point it will have to be done without a dyno being an option

The guys here, both Tony, Eric, howie, and Speeddog (Nick) are all vastly experienced, but you can't help them help you right now because you can't actually ride the bike and answer their questions.

Only nonsense there is, we'll have to trailer the bike to the closest State Inspection station, as you have to get the inspection to re-register it. Yes - I understand I cannot give every fact, but I really do appreciate those here trying to help, and know we'll get to the bottom of it 

[ducpainter]

Only nonsense there is, we'll have to trailer the bike to the closest State Inspection station, as you have to get the inspection to re-register it. Yes - I understand I cannot give every fact, but I really do appreciate those here trying to help, and know we'll get to the bottom of it 

Still needs to be done, and even if you get this glitch out, you won't be able to get the entire jetting sorted without the thing being 'on the road'.

[clubhousemotorsports]

Okay I have few similar setups as we prefer the 39's over the 41's so most of my jetting was for the smaller carbs. I did have a couple though running the 41's so you can see where we ended up. They would have been checked on either mine or the dealership dyno. Full spec as well as some info is missing so just use it for a guideline as different bikes will have different needs.

I assume your FCR's are a bank as you are using the stock airbox so I will take it as a given.

#1
155m
62 pilots
#3 needle ELV
Fuel screw 1/2
Air screw 1-1/2

#2   open air box (like yours)
full termi exhaust
150 main
#4 needle (elv)    changed to a EMR run in #7    so you can see some big differences
65 pilot  changed to 62
Fuel screw  1/2
air screw 1-1/2



#3  985
dual plug heads
porting
split 41's
Full DP exhaust
155 main
62 pilot
1/2 fuel screw
2-1/2 air screw
#5 needle ELV

Monsters with 39's 160 and larger mains but a SS should be smaller. I would start by swapping in some 155's  and try a 62 or 65 pilot. I would start with the ELV needle in the middle (3 or 4) and base line the fuel screw and air screw as above.

Nate is right in that you will need to test it sometime/somewhere and if the customer is ever going to ride it I assume he will need that inspection anyway. in a pinch see if there is a private road, track,airport that can accommodate you. I used to take mine to the local race track and drive their back parking lot.

[Brid]

Okay I have few similar setups as we prefer the 39's over the 41's so most of my jetting was for the smaller carbs. I did have a couple though running the 41's so you can see where we ended up. They would have been checked on either mine or the dealership dyno. Full spec as well as some info is missing so just use it for a guideline as different bikes will have different needs.

I assume your FCR's are a bank as you are using the stock airbox so I will take it as a given.

#1
155m
62 pilots
#3 needle ELV
Fuel screw 1/2
Air screw 1-1/2

#2   open air box (like yours)
full termi exhaust
150 main
#4 needle (elv)    changed to a EMR run in #7    so you can see some big differences
65 pilot  changed to 62
Fuel screw  1/2
air screw 1-1/2



#3  985
dual plug heads
porting
split 41's
Full DP exhaust
155 main
62 pilot
1/2 fuel screw
2-1/2 air screw
#5 needle ELV

Monsters with 39's 160 and larger mains but a SS should be smaller. I would start by swapping in some 155's  and try a 62 or 65 pilot. I would start with the ELV needle in the middle (3 or 4) and base line the fuel screw and air screw as above.

Nate is right in that you will need to test it sometime/somewhere and if the customer is ever going to ride it I assume he will need that inspection anyway. in a pinch see if there is a private road, track,airport that can accommodate you. I used to take mine to the local race track and drive their back parking lot.

Eric - thanks for digging this out. When I got the bike in, it had ELV's in 4, 65 pilots, 185 mains, 200 main airs, slow air at 1 1/2 turns, and fuel screws at 3 - and was doing pretty much exactly what it is doing right now. I have tried EMT and now EMR's, in different clip positions, but it hasn't made a difference. Chris Kelly from Ca Cycleworks maintained it was far too lean with ELV's, and to go to EMT's, so - I have had info both ways!!

[ducpainter]

You have 2 guys suggesting settings that are close. While every bike is different and will need some tweaking if you're within a jet size or a clip position the thing should be rideable.

I'd put the Kokusan boxes back in to see what happened.

[koko64]

+1. I would to double check. Aftermarket ignitors and retarding the pick ups could have doubled up on ignition adjustments.
Some people like LT Snyder have pointed the finger at Nology coils too.

[clubhousemotorsports]

Most bikes have run the ELV if supersports and EMT if monsters. Little difference between 39 and 41 jetting.

For this bike to be off that bad it needs something else to be different from the norm. When I convert 800's to carby and port and cam with race pistons we need to step away from the norm. What you have should not be different unless you also have cams and or porting, you should check. If you are no different from the norm then I think you may be chasing the wrong thing but chasing blind. Do you have access to an gas tester? CO and HC would do.

Somehow you need to figure out if you have a fuel problem or something else, without a way to tell what you have for fueling it will be a lot of work and guessing.
If you are stock other than what you have desribed then I would consider going back to the oem coils,wires ignition boxes and some DR8e plugs. Make sure you have resistor caps as well (5k).

Before you get too far remember to test those RPM throttle positions, one test/change at a time.

[Brid]

+1. I would to double check. Aftermarket ignitors and retarding the pick ups could have doubled up on ignition adjustments.
Some people like LT Snyder have pointed the finger at Nology coils too.

Just tried the Kokusan boxes again, and still not good. It is always at 1/4 throttle, and around 5 1/2 to 6K rpm. Will be getting it licensed soon, so will get some (legal!!) miles on it, and see where we are. Again, just trying to get through the 'garbled' glitch, with a slow throttle opening, it feels like it really wants to clear out and go.

[Howie]

I was thinking you should borrow a known good set of OEM igniters just to rule them out.  Since you did that I have to agree with Nate.  You are quite knowledgeable, your limit seems to be the inability to go for a proper road test.   

[Brid]

I was thinking you should borrow a known good set of OEM igniters just to rule them out.  Since you did that I have to agree with Nate.  You are quite knowledgeable, your limit seems to be the inability to go for a proper road test.   

Howie - I'd really like to take the bike to the racetrack, get it ironed out - and get some laps on it!! I will have a pair of known good igniter boxes next week, plus - another brand new (in box) set of FCR41's ( I am very intrigued to see what jetting/needles they have in them, as they were bought at the same time as the ones on the bike). The owner and his father used to do track days on 900's & 916's, and have a couple of running 900SS's we will borrow the boxes off. Pain is, they are a couple of hundred miles from my shop, so I won't have them until Monday 

[Brid]

MO UPDATES
As I'm waiting on alternative jetting, I decided I'd run it with the EMR's as fat as they'd go -- in #7 (Just for the halibut  ). Got it all back together, fired it up - and the charge light stayed on. A quick check of the stator output shows nothing between the three 'legs', and with an ohm meter, again - nothing between the legs, but nothing going to ground.
Question - Even with a good fresh battery (12.5 v) would the charging system going out make any difference in the running?

[Speeddog]

Depends how low the battery goes when it's running.

Dunno about on the carbie SS, but the IE fuel pumps are ~15 amps or so when running, IIRC.

So, system voltage could be sagging quite a bit.

And thus perhaps the coils aren't charging fully....

[Brid]

Depends how low the battery goes when it's running.

Dunno about on the carbie SS, but the IE fuel pumps are ~15 amps or so when running, IIRC.

So, system voltage could be sagging quite a bit.

And thus perhaps the coils aren't charging fully....

Thanks! I found the stator wires in rough shape - hidden inside the sheathing, and patched them up. Now I have around 50v ac per leg at revs (about 16 at idle) but it's still not putting much into the battery. Gets up to about 13v, then drops back to mid 12's at revs, so -- another rectifier is needed

[Speeddog]

16 VAC at idle and 50 at some revs, that's fine.

[clubhousemotorsports]

If the bike continues to start/restart under its own power it is doubtful the charging system has anything to do with your running problem.  The bike will break up when voltage gets low but with a carby that's pretty low and it does not get better or re-start after that.

Carby charging systems are pretty weak but sufficient most of the time. Have you had to keep charging /jump start the battery to get it started?