16 year old + R1 = no good

[fwtcc]

so..... if a kid, hopped up on drugs driving a stolen car kills your mom...... I'd say it's more of a waste having mom gone (assuming your mom is a good human   )

a few months ago..... four kids.... ages 13 - 15, beat an 84 year old man to death..... just cuz.
you wanna babysit one of them and wait a few years to see "if" they turn it around? I dont. I want them gone.

I don't think the two are even near comparable.  This kid at least had the decency to practice this in an empty lot.  Had a helmet on.  The kid does not sound like a bad apple, #1.  #2 his death was the only death involved.  Talking about a doped up kid that kills ones mom is neither hear nor there.  

Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it.  Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite.  You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.

[Grampa]

Nope...but I'm guessing more'n a few people tried to help you "turn it around", no?

yup.... mom beat me with a...

bible

hotwheel tracks

wooden spoons

ping pong paddles.


all of which..... would now get my mom locked up from CPS for doing more harm to me than good  

[erkishhorde]

Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it.  Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite.  You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.

"minor mistake" covers a large area. I could make a minor mistake while driving and still die and in a car I'm more likely to take someone else out with me since it's bigger and has more mass that will cause more destruction if I lose control. If he's making "minor mistakes" then perhaps he shouldn't be doing things where the minor mistake could kill him. Perhaps it would be a better idea for him to learn to ride his bike "properly" before trying "high speed stunts" so there won't be any/ as many "minor mistakes."

What gets me is the PC wording of everything in the media. All motorists "lose control" whether they did or not. You can't really know. I guess technically if he crashed into a building to kill himself then he probably wasn't in control but he make the beast with two backsed up plain and simple. Still, he was probably doing exactly what he meant to do and it just didn't turn out the way he thought it would.

[Pakhan]

I don't think the two are even near comparable.  This kid at least had the decency to practice this in an empty lot.  Had a helmet on.  The kid does not sound like a bad apple, #1.  #2 his death was the only death involved.  Talking about a doped up kid that kills ones mom is neither hear nor there. 

Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it.  Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite.  You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.

Yes it's great he had the sense to do this with a helmet on (state law requirement) and in a parking lot.  but he was trying "high-speed stunts"  in a lot thats approximately .

There is nothing wrong with providing a motorcycle or most dangerous things to a 16yo, so long as you believe the kid is responsible enough to listen to you AND you are there at all times to parent your kid and be the voice of reason.  If this is a bad idea and no one did it we probably would not have MC racers of the caliber we do today.

[erkishhorde]

Yes it's great he had the sense to do this with a helmet on (state law requirement) and in a parking lot.  but he was trying "high-speed stunts"  in a lot thats approximately .

I was wondering when someone would take the time to look up the size of the parking lot. Also, yeah, helmet only? I know a lotta people on the board support dressing for the crash and while I know it's your choice, you gotta expect that you're gonna crash while practicing stunts and should dress appropriately. Even a 15 mph laydown can leave a nasty rash.

[Grampa]

I don't think the two are even near comparable.  This kid at least had the decency to practice this in an empty lot.  Had a helmet on.  The kid does not sound like a bad apple, #1.  #2 his death was the only death involved.  Talking about a doped up kid that kills ones mom is neither hear nor there.  

Some one put a gun in a 16 year old kids hand and said have at it.  Some kids are responsible enough for that, others, not quite.  You don't give a four year old a knife and you don't give a 16 year old a vehicle capable of killing him for making a minor mistake.

you are missing the point.

A: neither you nor I knew the kid.
B: if anybody is going to ASSUME..... you have to open up the entire spectrum of "what if".

If I were to pass away while riding...there will be three camps. Those who say, "it's a waste", those who say, "it's about time", and those who are saddened that a fellow rider went down doing what he loved, and thats it. It's the same for all of us who ride. A persons value to huminity is all relative.

thats all I'm say'n

A local rider died a few moths back. I never met the kid. I cried when I read about how what had happened. I went to his clubs website, and advised them how to help put the drunk how ran him over, behind bars.... his group of friends tore into me for doing so. They are the local stunters, and all I did was....
express my sadness in his and thier loss, and, suggest that they remove all the pics and videos of Jared , the kid who was killed, from their website, because the local media had been reporting links to it, and I thought it would be best that the drunks lawyer not have that to use, as to paint the victim as more the cause because of all the stunting stuff he was know for. Well..... if be'n a stunta is more important to them than seeing to it, that a drunk is put away...make the beast with two backs them.

If the kid thought do'n wheelies was more important than attending a MSF course...well, thats the path he decided to walk.

Im saddened that a fellow rider went down, but i'm not going to picket the dealership, or kick his parents in the balls because of it. I'm going to use it as a reminder to say sharp.

[fwtcc]

Yes it's great he had the sense to do this with a helmet on (state law requirement) and in a parking lot.  but he was trying "high-speed stunts"  in a lot thats approximately .

There is nothing wrong with providing a motorcycle or most dangerous things to a 16yo, so long as you believe the kid is responsible enough to listen to you AND you are there at all times to parent your kid and be the voice of reason.  If this is a bad idea and no one did it we probably would not have MC racers of the caliber we do today.

I didn't say he was a smart kid.  Just doesn't seem like a bad apple.  

I'm just saying parents shouldn't give a kid carte blanche with something dangerous.  Motorcycles are dangerous.  Fun, but dangerous and require amount of responsibility and self control most 16 year olds don't have. I am not saying it is all the parents fault, in a strict liability since, just that 16 is awfully young to turn a kid loose on something like that.  He shouldn't have been being an idiot, his parents shouldn't have given him something like that bike.

[Grampa]

self control most 16 year olds don't have.

or..... most humans period.

[Triple J]

I'm just saying parents shouldn't give a kid carte blanche with something dangerous.  Motorcycles are dangerous.  Fun, but dangerous and require amount of responsibility and self control most 16 year olds don't have. I am not saying it is all the parents fault, in a strict liability since, just that 16 is awfully young to turn a kid loose on something like that.  He shouldn't have been being an idiot, his parents shouldn't have given him something like that bike.

Agreed.

However, this is different from earlier where you implied the salesperson was responsible. [At least that's what it sounded like in your reply to wbeck...we may actually be in total agreement] 

Responsibilty falls to two (well, maybe 3) people: 1) The kid for being a dumbass, 2) The parent(s) for buying said dumbass an R1 (or allowing him to buy it), and also not teaching him to not be such a dumbass.

No new laws needed...no reason to blame the salesperson.

[Grampa]

Agreed.

However, this is different from earlier where you implied the salesperson was responsible. [At least that's what it sounded like in your reply to wbeck...we may actually be in total agreement] 

Responsibilty falls to two (well, maybe 3) people: 1) The kid for being a dumbass, 2) The parent(s) for buying said dumbass an R1 (or allowing him to buy it), and also not teaching him to not be such a dumbass.

No new laws needed...no reason to blame the salesperson.

it falls on the kid, and the kid alone. (unless the kid was autistic)

[Popeye the Sailor]

it falls on the kid, and the kid alone. (unless the kid was autistic)

Would you let your son have an R1?

[fwtcc]

Agreed.

However, this is different from earlier where you implied the salesperson was responsible. [At least that's what it sounded like in your reply to wbeck...we may actually be in total agreement] 

Responsibilty falls to two (well, maybe 3) people: 1) The kid for being a dumbass, 2) The parent(s) for buying said dumbass an R1 (or allowing him to buy it), and also not teaching him to not be such a dumbass.

No new laws needed...no reason to blame the salesperson.

I strictly meant the parents.  I am sure there was a weasely salesman saying the R1 was a perfect starter bike or that he would outgrow anything smaller in weeks, but that guy is just an asshole piece of shit in general. 

An adult had to buy it for him, and an adult should have better sense.

BP, not saying your a bad parent or implying you would do such a thing, but if you think your child has enough sense to walk around with a gun, keep them the hell away from me.

[Triple J]

it falls on the kid, and the kid alone. (unless the kid was autistic)

I disagree.  The parents have some responsibility.  Mind you, not legal responsiblity, but they should feel a little responsible.

[Grampa]

Would you let your son have an R1?

my son is 22 he can do what he wants.

would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup

there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.

kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.

a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.

[Grampa]

I disagree.  The parents have some responsibility.  Mind you, not legal responsiblity, but they should feel a little responsible.

well....yeah, if a parent didnt feel some of that...they would not be human.