16 year old + R1 = no good

[Popeye the Sailor]

would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup

there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.

kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.

a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.

What if he was a newer rider, but you felt he was responsible? What if he could afford it (somehow)? Would you still let him?

After all, you said the fault is on the kid and the kid alone-would you really just let him?

[Ducatiloo]

my son is 22 he can do what he wants.

would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup

there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.

kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.

a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.

Either Kids are just too sheltered, or they haven't had any guidance since their birth.    Sometimes you need to break an arm as a 14 year old to avoid a broken neck at 21.

[Grampa]

What if he was a newer rider, but you felt he was responsible? What if he could afford it (somehow)? Would you still let him?

After all, you said the fault is on the kid and the kid alone-would you really just let him?

Not as a newer rider..... but thats based on MY comfort level. I dont expect others to have to follow in my safe zone. My mom let me buy a moped when I was 16. Because that was within her comfort zone. In theory.....  a truck crushing an R1 is the same as a truck crushing a Yamahopper.(and yes.... I know the kid was not crushed by a truck)

I gave my some a glider flight ride for his 13th birthday. Two days after... a pilot and his student here killed, same airfield.

Life has risks.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Not as a newer rider..... but thats based on MY comfort level. I dont expect others to have to follow in my safe zone. My mom let me buy a moped when I was 16. Because that was within her comfort zone. In theory.....  a truck crushing an R1 is the same as a truck crushing a Yamahopper.(and yes.... I know the kid was not crushed by a truck)

I gave my some a glider flight ride for his 13th birthday. Two days after... a pilot and his student here killed, same airfield.

Life has risks.

i know that, but my point being if you would've stepped in and done something in the same situation, clearly you don't think the kid is the only one who should be deciding this sort of thing, no?

[Grampa]

i know that, but my point being if you would've stepped in and done something in the same situation, clearly you don't think the kid is the only one who should be deciding this sort of thing, no?

I know where you are going..... but..... how do you police all the parents of the world?

and who decides whats safe vs unsafe?

we can now eat tomatoes..... three weeks prior..... the tomatoes were going to kill you.

[fwtcc]

my son is 22 he can do what he wants.

would I buy him one when he was 16. If he had been around bikes for sometime and had Ben Spies skills, and I could afford it. yup

there are parents out there who wrap thier kids up sooooo tight, they cant breathe. those kids get out of the house, get a taste of freedom and abuse it.

kids need to fail, kids need to get hurt, kids need to live, kids need to learn how to manage risks.

a parent that wraps the kid up.... sometimes does just as much damage as one who gives a kid a loaded R1.

There's this color.  It's called grey.  It exist because everything isn't black and white.  You are not coddling a kid by saying no to an R1.  No to a 10 speed at 16 is coddling, but not an R1.  

No one is saying arrest the parents, just that they're shitty parents.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I know where you are going..... but..... how do you police all the parents of the world?

and who decides whats safe vs unsafe?

we can now eat tomatoes..... three weeks prior..... the tomatoes were going to kill you.

Who said anything about policing them? I just think they're partially to blame, and not just the kid.



Kids are dumb as bricks. Whoever helped him get that bike, should've known better.

[Grampa]

There's this color.  It's called grey.  It exist because everything isn't black and white.  You are not coddling a kid by saying no to an R1.  No to a 10 speed at 16 is coddling, but not an R1.  

No one is saying arrest the parents, just that they're shitty parents.

by your standards. ( and may others, myself included) but.....

it's all relative.

if I got the boys a minibike.... lm would have my balls. But.... they can go flip each other in Judo class.

My uncle bob, got mini bikes for his kids, and thought Judo was dangerous.

I'm just tired of people pointing the finger of blame at everybody other that themselves. And I'm tired of people who think that the way to fix the finger pointing, is by making the world a safer place according to thier standards.

[COWBOY]

The only truth in assumptions are they include ass.

We don't know the family or the boy.  The kid died.  For him it was a tragic mistake and for his family and friends a tragedy.  The use of it as just a proof point in some belief system or Squid argument is twisted as opposed to most here using the tragedy to discuss lessons learned. [edited]

For all we know the parents were restrictive in how/when he used the bike and let him take it down to the school ,with it's small safe parking lot, to show it to his friends. Since we're going down memory lane you old farts ... showing a new ride to your friends and hearing them oohh and ahhh was a major factor at 16 and in HS.  He decided to impress them (I'd wager there were some girls present as well) as well and it got out of hand.

For all we know the kid could have grown up on bikes (dirt and/or track) and been a proficient rider.

At least this kid didn't lose control of his souped up Civic and crash into a family, the kids at the finish line or any of a milliion other scenarios.  Teens do wild things it's a part of growing up.  Sometimes those things don't go well.  Legislation won't change that anymore than Obama's passing a law on his Senate Committee to ban/keep terrorists from getting Nuclear Weapons has (easily the funniest commercial I've seen to date in this political season, LOL).

As far as the argument of age restrictions etc.

I believe the age at which you are legally responsible for yourself - meaning you are tried as an adult if you do wrong and you are able to be sent to kill for your country by your own decision or the govts - is the age you should be granted the privileges as well.  These include the privilege to drive, vote, drink, ride, etc.

A stepped drivers license (as well as moto) with restrictions from 16 to 18 would be something I'd be for.

[Grampa]

Who said anything about policing them? I just think they're partially to blame, and not just the kid.



Kids are dumb as bricks. Whoever helped him get that bike, should've known better.

kids are dumb as bricks, because we as parents make them dumb. we teach the about "fair" when the world isnt.
we teach them that the word "no" really does not mean no, if they just push it a lil more. we teach them, that a person can get multiple do-overs with little or no consquences to thier actions.

so.... you sue the parents who made the kid dumb, then the grandparents who made the parents dumb?

the parents may be at fault..... but same as none of us knowing the kid.... none of us know the parents.

[Popeye the Sailor]

kids are dumb as bricks, because we as parents make them dumb. we teach the about "fair" when the world isnt.
we teach them that the word "no" really does not mean no, if they just push it a lil more. we teach them, that a person can get multiple do-overs with little or no consquences to thier actions.

so.... you sue the parents who made the kid dumb, then the grandparents who made the parents dumb?

the parents may be at fault..... but same as none of us knowing the kid.... none of us know the parents.

One of the first things I learned was that life is unfair.

[Grampa]

  The apparent joy or laughter this brings some of you is troubling.  The use of it as just a proof point in some belief system or argument is twisted.

who here is laughing at the death of a kid?

and just so ya know..... you just posted up your beliefs in the thread.

[COWBOY]

who here is laughing at the death of a kid?

and just so ya know..... you just posted up your beliefs in the thread.

Laughing was strong, I'll edit that.

Beliefs?  I did?  OMG.  Was it the Obama line or the "I believe ... " statement that gave it away.  LOL. 

[Grampa]

Laughing was strong, I'll edit that.

Beliefs?  I did?  OMG.  Was it the Obama line or the "I believe ... " statement that gave it away.  LOL.

It was the souped up civic comment 

[COWBOY]

It was the souped up civic comment 

I picked that example given the list of reckless behavior you provided from your youth, LOL.  Slingshot fights... we played Slingshot tag when I was 12-13 since we only had a few slingshots - kind of like cops and robbers.  We used to drag race in HS out in the country.  Worst that ever happened was one dumbass not stopping and literally de-axeling his beater of a car as he plowed into a large squared curb ("i thought it would hop it." LOL) and a few damaged rows of corn.

To your prior belief comment -  The difference is I didn't use the kid or his death as an example to bolster my arguments for either belief that 1. you can't legislate teens rebelliousness  2. privileges should be granted at the same time that responsibility is bestowed.