need help with leaning in turns.

[tristantumble]

today i realized how much i still have to learn about riding. I'm in my second season, and my turns are still pretty bad. I was getting on the highway on a big twisty on ramp, and i took it so slow (which is fine) but I'm not really leaning into the turn, or leaning the bike in the turns, and thus i have to take them really slow- to be honest i was embarrassed for the car that was behind my having to watch it. Then i was on the highway and there where some slight turns in the road, and i really started to over think it anytime i had to lean or turn the bike. What can i do to practice leaning into turns/taking them properly.

thanks.
tt.

[bryant8]

Get the book Total Control by Lee Parks for some good reading on how to get better

[somegirl]

Sign up for a track school if you can (not just a track day, one with instructors who can give you feedback).

[Carman]

Track schools are inredible confidence builders, also let you practice in a controlled setting with professionals critiqueing you.  I learned a lot in just two days, also you learn more about the bike and what it's capable of.  When you go off a corner (because you got to push it once or twice) you're safe.

[Moronic]

today i realized how much i still have to learn about riding. I'm in my second season, and my turns are still pretty bad. ... What can i do to practice leaning into turns/taking them properly.

thanks.
tt.

It may be your focus here isn't quite right, tt. Trying to lean the bike probably won't work. Reason is that the lean has to be appropriate for your rate of turn, and you can't change that much while in the turn.

The only way to be leaning more is to be getting into and through the turns faster. And to do that your focus needs to be on understanding how you can steer through the turn without slowing down so much.

As an alternative to the good suggestions of racetrack practice or tuition, perhaps find a nice stretch of twisting road and have some fun riding it. You need a good surface and not much other traffic - picking the right time of day can help with the latter. Rather than trying to maximise your speed into every corner - a very likely way to run off the road - just work on flowing smoothly down the road at a conservative but pleasant pace. Brake early and gently. Accelerate gently too. Relax. 

You'll get into a rhythm, get comfortable, forget about trying to lean the bike and - presumably the point - have lots of fun.

You might even lose interest in going quick on freeway on-ramps.

 

 

[DoubleEagle]

The one thing I learned which is really very easy is called counter steering.

Alot depends on the lenght and the angle of your handle bars but what it amounts to is this. As you approach a left hand turn push down on your left handgrip and the bike should go into a left hand lean.

Same for a right hand turns. Just push down on your right handgrip as you enter a corner or curve and your bike will lean to the right

I was amazed w/ my S4Rs how easy it turned that way.

The 1st time I tried it I started laughing because it was like magic.

Now on my 1098 R , it is harder because I have shorter clip-on bars so I don't get the same kind of leverage as on the S4Rs.

On my 1098 R and BMW K1200S I tend to hang off the side of the bike of the direction of the corner so that my weight is helping me pull the bike to the inside of the corner but that is something that takes more practice and I wouldn't suggest trying that at this stage of your riding skills.

Try the counter steering , and don't be afraid to have some speed going into the corner , at least the speed limit if not alittle more since it produces a feeling of a gyroscope pulling you around the corner.   Dolph

[duc996]

+1 on track day! But if you can't go,just ride as much as you can and practice somewhere that's clear of traffic for now.Oh wear proper gears,ride safe

[mihama01]

+1 on the track day I would also add some points that I found important myself

Its all about confidence

1) Tyres, if you are nervous then get the same tyres that your faster friends use, then that takes the tyre worries out of the equation, one less thing to worry about. If you have no friends and your tyres are more than a few years old, invest in some modern rubber. Do not think track tyres are better. Fast road rubber is more suitable for the beginner who is going to the track occaisionally, Michelin Pilot Powers, Pirelli Diablo, Bridgestone BT16 etc. etc. Its all about confidence.

2) Relax, I could not turn my M1000 at all, it was horrible.... then I discovered... I had a death grip on the bars. Relax your arms and shoulders completely. Use your knees and stomach muscles to support yourself. No force should go through the bars at all(except for any steering input)

3) Go on a track day, there are faster riders to challenge yourself with, there are instructers and best of all there are the same turns again and again and again, exactly what you need to build gradually and increase confidence.

4) Body position, don't worry about hanging your butt off, try to position the inside shoulder above the inside handlebar in the curve, that is you try to lean your body into the curve. I find myself natrually shifting my butt an inch or so to the inside when I do this.

5) Concentrate on being smooth, no sudden braking and don't just crack the throttle wide open, apply it progressively. No sudden changes of line, pick you line through the curve beforehand and stick to it (unless obstruction etc. appears of course).

6) Corner speed, slow in, fast out. You are never going to relax if you feel you are going too fast. Always be aware on the road, you must be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. So no insane speeds around blind bends.

6) View, look at where you want to go, that should be first the cliping point(apex) then the exit of the corner. If you do not know what an apex is then just concentrate on the exit. Do not look at a point 5 yards in front of the bike. Do however spare a few seconds to scan the road surface to avoid any oil/gravel etc.

This is the very basic stuff, the next level; I think that is best taken up with an instructor on a track.

Riding is all about a combination of techniques, on the track you will find that you are faster than some people in certain situations and slower in others. Example, somebody can out brake you into the corner, but you have a better line and pass him again on the exit of the corner.

Everyone has weak areas, depending on the way you ride, so the "just do this" kind of advice is of limited benefit unless the person advising can actually see you ride.

[Cone]

Hi tristantumble  (and everyone else  )

There are a thousand things you can do to improve your riding skills, but this would have to be at the top of my list for basic cornering techniques,

Counter Steering !!!

This was already mentioned by DoubleEagle, and it can change you riding life instantly!

Find a quiet bendy bit of road you are familiar with and ride through at a reasonable speed - say the speed limit or a bit less. Not too slow.
Ride with both arms slightly bent, not rigid and straight.
As you approach a RIGHT hand corner PUSH the RIGHT handle bar FORWARD !
The bike will automatically lean to the right and you then just follow through the corner naturally
As you approach a LEFT hand corner PUSH the LEFT handle bar FORWARD !
The bike will automatically lean to the left and you then just follow through the corner naturally

Dont try and force the bike to lean. The bike will lean automatically.
If you haven't been doing this already you will be instantly amazed at how well it works. INSTANTLY I SAY
Once you start doing this it feels very natural. Remember Push Right to Go Right. Push Left to Go Left.

I guarantee this will improve you sex life through the roof. In less then half an hour you will have improved cornering 1000%. I guaranteee It 

Let us know how you go

[ICON]

What model bike are you riding? Do you trust your bike? I know if I ride a bike that is not setup for my weight I will not ride it hard at all.

You may try to find someone to ride with that can show you how to take some turns at certain speeds.

Good luck friend. 

[misti]

Hi tristantumble  (and everyone else  )

There are a thousand things you can do to improve your riding skills, but this would have to be at the top of my list for basic cornering techniques,

Counter Steering !!!

This was already mentioned by DoubleEagle, and it can change you riding life instantly!

Find a quiet bendy bit of road you are familiar with and ride through at a reasonable speed - say the speed limit or a bit less. Not too slow.
Ride with both arms slightly bent, not rigid and straight.
As you approach a RIGHT hand corner PUSH the RIGHT handle bar FORWARD !
The bike will automatically lean to the right and you then just follow through the corner naturally
As you approach a LEFT hand corner PUSH the LEFT handle bar FORWARD !
The bike will automatically lean to the left and you then just follow through the corner naturally

Dont try and force the bike to lean. The bike will lean automatically.
If you haven't been doing this already you will be instantly amazed at how well it works. INSTANTLY I SAY
Once you start doing this it feels very natural. Remember Push Right to Go Right. Push Left to Go Left.

I guarantee this will improve you sex life through the roof. In less then half an hour you will have improved cornering 1000%. I guaranteee It 

Let us know how you go

This is a good explanation of counter-steering and should really help your riding.  I agree with the other members that suggested you go to a riding school to get some instruction and coaching as it is safer to try new things in a controlled environment with trained instructors available for observations and tips.  One thing I'd like to point out in this explanation of counter-steering that I find helpful is the word "forward".  Instead of pushing down on the left bar to go left, the distinction here is to push FORWARD on the left bar to turn left.  What this does is require less effort to get the bike turned then if you were trying to push DOWN.  What is also does is helps to initiate a bend in your elbows, as you will be able to push forward better if your elbows are bent and you kind of palm the bars. (push forward with the palm of your hands). This bend in your elbows helps keep your arms more relaxed as well.

Another really important thing to consider is how your body moves with the bike once it starts to lean.  Most riders have a tendency to stay straight up with the bike, or even lean the opposite way in the turn...so if the bike is going to the left, the rider is vertical or twisting to the right.  With your elbows bent, push forward on the left bar and let your left shoulder drop into the turn with the bike.  Keep your left elbow pointed to the ground as you go around the corner and then when it is time to change direction, push forward on the right bar and let your right shoulder drop into the turn.

"Be like a wet noodle, a floppy doll, a good passenger....be one with the motorcycle, Zen while riding!"

And get your butt to a motorcycle riding school!!!

Hope this helps

Misti

[Ducatista]

Another really important thing to consider is how your body moves with the bike once it starts to lean.  Most riders have a tendency to stay straight up with the bike, or even lean the opposite way in the turn...so if the bike is going to the left, the rider is vertical or twisting to the right.  With your elbows bent, push forward on the left bar and let your left shoulder drop into the turn with the bike.  Keep your left elbow pointed to the ground as you go around the corner and then when it is time to change direction, push forward on the right bar and let your right shoulder drop into the turn.

I love Misti's explanation of this.  I don't really feel comfortable getting the butt out of the saddle on the street (totally different story at the track), but I certainly still lead with my shoulders.    I find that my turns are so much smoother.  That and it also encourages the full head turn.  Never look at the pavement under you or right in front of your tire.  Be aware of any obstacles or debris, but don't look at it.  Looking at things other than your exit may also be causing you to lose faith. 

[zedsaid]

The one thing I learned which is really very easy is called counter steering.

Alot depends on the lenght and the angle of your handle bars but what it amounts to is this. As you approach a left hand turn push down on your left handgrip and the bike should go into a left hand lean.

Same for a right hand turns. Just push down on your right handgrip as you enter a corner or curve and your bike will lean to the right

actually, don't push down on the bars, push forward.

[tristantumble]

thanks so much for all the great advice, i've been out of town and away from my bike (m695) so i haven't had a chance to try some of these tips out, but i can't wait. so it seems its all about the countersteering, wich i think i was doing, but probably not to its full extent. So if i want to turn right, i push the handlebar lever right? how is it different from a low speed turn? i guess im not turning the bars, but rather pushing? is that righit?

thanks, will report back with the outcome.

TT

[Smokescreen]

Tristan, it's different from low speed because in low speed you tuurn into the turn, and at twisty road speeds it's "like" you are turning away from.  You push the left bar forward to innitiate a left turn, in effect, steering right, to get the bike to lean left. 

At this time, don't come out of your seat at all, Just look through the turn (all the way if you can, but as far from the bike as possible) countersteer, keep your grip on both grips relaxed, and bned those elbows.  If you stiff arm it, the bike won't ant to turn either.  If you stiff arm and death grip it, the bike won't want to do anything at all.

Seriously though, you need to get out and ride with some riding buddies that will sweep for you and help you with your technique, not just wait up occasionally. 

BTW- I rode my first bike, a 2003 SV650 for nearly five years before i ever so much as scraped a toe slider on the ground.  And I rode almost every day.  30000miles on that bike.  Ride your own pace, and be glad you've not put it down.