For people that don't shoot alot, but feel the need for a firearm for "social occasions". Kinda hard to beat a pump shotgun. Don't have to worry about misses go thru a few walls and offing the neighbor lady. With an open choke your aim can be a little off. And the sound a pump makes when you rack it is enough to cause alot of wannabe crooks to rethink their career choices.
I'm probably going to pick up a Norinco 1911 Commander, once the Canadian supplier gets some in stock again. 22. LR conversion and it's cheap shootin' on the weekends while still feeling like a real man with a big gun. ;D
For some strange reason I have a compulsion to buy a tactical pistol-grip pump-action shotgun with a folding stock and a clip-on shell holder... Maybe I should stop watching so many action movies. Sure would scare the thieves to see something that looks like it got lifted off the set of Terminator.
Quote from: sno_duc on May 06, 2008, 05:32:59 PM
And the sound a pump makes when you rack it is enough to cause alot of wannabe crooks to rethink their career choices.
Yeah...this doesn't work. It only announces to everyone, all of which probably want to kill or maim you, where exactly you are. Very bad idea. Leave one in the pipe, get the drop, and kill their ass.
Can we say 'shit' here?
Ended up getting the SW1911 108282 (the stainless fixed sights model, I don't understand why they insist on using SKU).
Great pistol, chewed through everything I put through it so far. Rem UMC FMJ, WWB FMJ, some crappy ass JHPs, burp...
On a more somber note, a local bike shop owner, accidently shot himself (yes accidently) with a .45
Not knowing much about them, he ,45's atleast. Haven't shot one in over 10 years. According to police all safeties were active and working. I know it had to be chambered.
Supposedly he dropped it while getting other stuff out of his truck for work, struck him in the heart. What would fail for this to happen?
Quote from: printman on May 07, 2008, 03:45:23 AM
On a more somber note, a local bike shop owner, accidently shot himself (yes accidently) with a .45
Not knowing much about them, he ,45's atleast. Haven't shot one in over 10 years. According to police all safeties were active and working. I know it had to be chambered.
Supposedly he dropped it while getting other stuff out of his truck for work, struck him in the heart. What would fail for this to happen?
if it did not have a firing pin block, it could have been a weak firing pin spring (you're supposed to replace those eventually).
if it did have a firing pin block, it would have needed to be a more complex failure...
Looking at picking up a Kimber Custom Stainless TLE II
Just trying to decide if the bike fund can spare the cash for a little while.
;D
Quote from: printman on May 07, 2008, 03:45:23 AM
Supposedly he dropped it while getting other stuff out of his truck for work, struck him in the heart. What would fail for this to happen?
his brain.
if you own or carry a gun, it is your responsibility to be 100% skilled and cognizant of the weapon at all times. regular self-training (go to the range) and maintenance are required, plus awareness of what the gun is "doing" at all times.
what failed? His brain.
why did the gun fire? it was probably a weak spring with no pin safety or it was on half-cock with one of those old sears with a worn edge and landed on the hammer (since it hit him, it had to be muzzle up)
No excuse.
Well said, 'tizzy. Just eliminating the weak so the strong can expand. One less useful idiot to pass over when TEOTWAWKI goes down.
Quote from: Sinister on May 06, 2008, 09:33:18 PM
Yeah...this doesn't work. It only announces to everyone, all of which probably want to kill or maim you, where exactly you are. Very bad idea. Leave one in the pipe, get the drop, and kill their ass.
I respectfully disagree.
"Cruiser Ready" is the way to have it stored.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 07, 2008, 07:55:30 AM
I respectfully disagree.
"Cruiser Ready" is the way to have it stored.
Don't lie to me...I know you don't respect me. Bwahahaha...
I can assume that "Cruiser Ready" is an empty chamber. No thanks, but to each their own. In my view, it's the same thing as keeping a 1911 "Cocked and Locked"...it's just logical.
Quote from: Sinister on May 07, 2008, 08:07:50 AM
Don't lie to me...I know you don't respect me. Bwahahaha...
I can assume that "Cruiser Ready" is an empty chamber. No thanks, but to each their own. In my view, it's the same thing as keeping a 1911 "Cocked and Locked"...it's just logical.
i have a Norinco 1911, but for some reason I can only keep it cocked and rocked. Can't figure out why.
Quote from: ducatizzy on May 07, 2008, 08:10:15 AM
i have a Norinco 1911, but for some reason I can only keep it cocked and rocked. Can't figure out why.
What do you mean? I keep my Springer Cocked and Locked because that is the safest.
Quote from: Sinister on May 07, 2008, 08:07:50 AM
I can assume that "Cruiser Ready" is an empty chamber. No thanks, but to each their own. In my view, it's the same thing as keeping a 1911 "Cocked and Locked"...it's just logical.
Cruiser Ready = hammer down on empty chamber, magazine full, slide unlocked, safety off.
rack and fire.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 07, 2008, 08:19:04 AM
Cruiser Ready = hammer down on empty chamber, magazine full, slide unlocked, safety off.
rack and fire.
Not for me. Good luck with it, though. I would rather disengage a safety (smaller motion) than rack a slide (larger motion which can affect your sight picture).
Quote from: Sinister on May 07, 2008, 08:20:34 AM
Not for me. Good luck with it, though. I would rather disengage a safety (smaller motion) than rack a slide (larger motion which can affect your sight picture).
Part of owning a shotgun is the intimidation factor, at least that is my opinion.
I would rather scare some punk kid off with racking the slide then to shoot someone.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 07, 2008, 08:21:52 AM
Part of owning a shotgun is the intimidation factor
In my view, I own guns for one reason: To kill when the need arises. Period. Whether it's a deer, a duck, or some Meth'd up dirtbag trying to steal my television or mug my wife.
Planning to "intimidate" may just get you dead.
Quote from: Sinister on May 07, 2008, 08:28:43 AM
Planning to "intimidate" may just get you dead.
You are taking the word out of context.
I would rather someone be intimidated in my house by the shot gun racking then by shooting them.
Best of luck with that. co::
Quote from: Sinister on May 07, 2008, 08:34:57 AM
Best of luck with that. co::
Gracias
It isn't like I am clearing my house for the Perp.
Safe spot in the bedroom and wait to see if they are dumb enough to enter
Thats how I keep all my guns. Sure, its not as fast as just pulling the trigger...but with enough practice, it really becomes second nature to merely slide the slide back and boom.
it's called an Israeli Draw. it has been shown that with proper training and practice it can be about as fast as cocked and locked draw. timed from a holster, not from a bedside table, but you get the idea.
to each his own. what's more important, imho, is that you feel comfortable with the weapon and are reasonably proficient. being prepared to do what may unfortunately necessary is also important, as hesitation could be fatal in that situation.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 07, 2008, 08:19:04 AM
Cruiser Ready = hammer down on empty chamber, magazine full, slide unlocked, safety off.
rack and fire.
Gotta agree. My carry gun is a Browning Hi-Power, 9mm...I carry it on an empty chamber, so I positively know it's not capable of hurting anyone until it's racked.
Some may argue that jacking a round into the chamber takes time -- only takes a fraction of a second.
Some may argue that jacking a round takes two hands -- that's true, but if I don't have both hands available, then my situational awareness has failed me, in which case I may well have neither hand available.
In any case, I've just decided I'm more comfortable carrying on an empty chamber, and I still feel a helluva lot safer than if I weren't carrying at all.
My $.02, thanks.
with a 1911 in condition one it will at least go bang one time no matter what.
No matter how fast you get at racking the slide to chamber a round if you carry with the chamber empty, there is allways the chance of something going wrong.
clear, tap, rack, fumble fumble, bang takes a while.
Quote from: Statler on May 07, 2008, 06:21:07 PM
with a 1911 in condition one it will at least go bang one time no matter what.
No matter how fast you get at racking the slide to chamber a round if you carry with the chamber empty, there is allways the chance of something going wrong.
clear, tap, rack, fumble fumble, bang takes a while.
don't forget...
"first, i put on my reading glasses..."
OR. . .
Just ditch the century old technology, and pick up an H&K P-7.
Yeah, it's a nine mil, and it'll only blow a 1/2" hole in 'em, not a full 1" hole, but I can carry with it chambered, throw it against a wall(not that I would), have a 4 year old pick it up and play with it(Again, not that I would.), and it will NEVER go off unless the grip is squeezed.
Let the mud throwing commence.
Jeff
Guns Rock.
I was in the shop the other day looking at all the goodies. They are making some nice M-4 clones now. Post ban they're as small as what the military gets. At least regular military. I didn't get one because I have no home defense use for it but it was tempting. They had a nice tactical 870 too. That, I may go back and get.
The keep a round chambered debate is circular. Nobody will ever convince the other side. Do what you're comfortable with and hope for the best. I don't keep a round chambered because the wife is still iffy around guns. Much better than she was, but still not comfortable. Even then, I've cleared my house more than once. I didn't *really* think that someone was there, but I figured better safe than go back to bed and hope for the best.
Quote from: Bun-bun on May 07, 2008, 08:25:59 PM
OR. . .
Just ditch the century old technology, and pick up an H&K P-7.
Yeah, it's a nine mil, and it'll only blow a 1/2" hole in 'em, not a full 1" hole, but I can carry with it chambered, throw it against a wall(not that I would), have a 4 year old pick it up and play with it(Again, not that I would.), and it will NEVER go off unless the grip is squeezed.
Let the mud throwing commence.
Jeff
no mud throwing, but the P7 simply isn't a fantastic gun in my book -- 99% of semi-autos made today will not misfire if chambered and thrown against a wall due to firing pin safeties, and if your 4 year old has access to your firearm, i would worry less about him shooting it and more about him taking some cartridges outside and banging on them with a hammer (which my cousin did as a kid and still has hearing loss -- about 80% in his right ear).
the P7 was designed to satisfy critics of the fact that german police in some areas did not have appropriate training in gun handling. that's why once it was established they were reasonably trained, the gun was no longer used by those cops and HK has struggled with its sales.
German gun laws make it unpopular too. THe most popular guns in Germany are the ones that allow you to swap calibers easily, so you can have several guns to shoot. So the 1911 and Glock are very popular since both have easy to swap barrel/magazine options, as is the German made Korth with 4 calibers swappable on the fly. HK has only offered the P7M13 with a swappable barrel.
Either way, it's an interesting design, but far too expensive for what it offers. Moreover, you have little or no aftermarket support, so you are stuck with the factory.
That all being said, if you're happy with it, then great. Shoot it often and buy plenty of magazines and spare parts as they will probably stop making them in the next 2-3 years since the metal work is very complicated. Word is that they've already ramped production down to 500 frames per year due to the glut of unsold models and the general preference for polymer guns nowadays (except for the 1911 and CZ)
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 07, 2008, 08:53:02 PM
Guns Rock.
I was in the shop the other day looking at all the goodies. They are making some nice M-4 clones now. Post ban they're as small as what the military gets. At least regular military. I didn't get one because I have no home defense use for it but it was tempting. They had a nice tactical 870 too. That, I may go back and get
i have a "real" M4 -- a registered SBR, the whole bit, but it is semi, not full. i like the idea of it more than i like it. i just don't shoot it much, it is a real pea shooter -- i enjoy shooting bigger rounds too much.
it is pretty impressive small a 12" barreled AR with a retractable stock can be. i can't imagine what they feel like in burst or full auto without a forward pistol grip, which is prob why every fielded M4 I've seen has one.
the only reason i went through the hassle of getting an SBR that wasn't full was because it was offered to me cheap and the dealer who had the gun did all the paperwork for me for free to get rid of the gun (which was not selling) so i got it at cost for the gun.
1911s! wt: Love 'em, raised on 'em. My Wilsons and Les Baers are bullet firing versions of my Ducatis... oh, and add several old massaged Series 70 Colts in there too!
Quote from: Sinister on May 07, 2008, 08:28:43 AM
In my view, I own guns for one reason: To kill when the need arises. Period. Whether it's a deer, a duck, or some Meth'd up dirtbag trying to steal my television or mug my wife.
Planning to "intimidate" may just get you dead.
Saw this post late. I agree, owning a firearm to "intimidate" is not so good in my opinion. I was the lead tactical shotgun instructor for a North Texas firearm academy for 11 years. I won't go into a long diatribe about shotguns over handguns or my semi worthless advice about either. We had a "saying" at the academy in response to the usual student question of "how many times do I need to shoot?". We would tell our students that if you ever have to fire a weapon in self defense (and I hope none of you ever have to) just keep shooting until they stop doing whatever it was that made you shoot them in the first place. It always seemed to strike a cord of reason with the students.
i have two.
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 07, 2008, 08:53:02 PM
I don't keep a round chambered because the wife is still iffy around guns. Much better than she was, but still not comfortable.
My wife was a little uncomfortable with me keeping my 1911 cocked and locked, until I fully explained the safety system of the 1911 - grip safety + slide safety makes it double safe. It made sense to her and she was fine. But, she's also a gun nut.
I've been lusting after an AR/M4gery, for a year or two. If one of the DNC candidates win, I'll be buying one rather quickly. Probably go Colt, but entertaining a few others as well.
I did a sweep of the house with my M4 last night.
Thought we heard something downstairs.
Turned out to be Greta banging her chewtoy around in the crate.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 08, 2008, 08:12:35 AM
I did a sweep of the house with my M4 last night.
Thought we heard something downstairs.
Turned out to be Greta banging her chewtoy around in the crate.
Did you go with a standard double-tap, or a Mozambique? ;D
Quote from: Sinister on May 08, 2008, 08:38:57 AM
Did you go with a standard double-tap, or a Mozambique? ;D
probably more "roided up chickenboy" style
mmmmmmmmmm .22 top end for plinking and teaching others.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/grumpylawyer/DSC00056.jpg?t=1210261773)
Quote from: Sinister on May 08, 2008, 07:59:45 AM
My wife was a little uncomfortable with me keeping my 1911 cocked and locked, until I fully explained the safety system of the 1911 - grip safety + slide safety makes it double safe. It made sense to her and she was fine. But, she's also a gun nut.
I've been lusting after an AR/M4gery, for a year or two. If one of the DNC candidates win, I'll be buying one rather quickly. Probably go Colt, but entertaining a few others as well.
To the first point, My wife started out as one of those people who thinks that guns can just get up and shoot people whenever they want. She didn't even like when I had them out for cleaning. She didn't like to look at them. So I'm pretty happy that she has made it this far.
The guy at the gun shop was saying the same thing about people stocking up on short barrel AR-15's in anticipation of a Dem winning. I liked carrying the M4 in Iraq because of how small it is. Not exactly intimidating, but handy and pretty accurate.
Ours weren't full auto and I don't think I ever fired mine on burst but I was indifferent on the forward pistol grip. I ended up taking mine off and never missed it.
Quote from: Statler on May 08, 2008, 08:50:24 AM
mmmmmmmmmm .22 top end for plinking and teaching others.
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/grumpylawyer/DSC00056.jpg?t=1210261773)
i use epsom salt in a 12 ga for teaching others..
but maybe that's a different kind of teachin' ;:| ;:|
Quote from: fastwin on May 08, 2008, 06:57:19 AM
Saw this post late. I agree, owning a firearm to "intimidate" is not so good in my opinion. I was the lead tactical shotgun instructor for a North Texas firearm academy for 11 years. I won't go into a long diatribe about shotguns over handguns or my semi worthless advice about either. We had a "saying" at the academy in response to the usual student question of "how many times do I need to shoot?". We would tell our students that if you ever have to fire a weapon in self defense (and I hope none of you ever have to) just keep shooting until they stop doing whatever it was that made you shoot them in the first place. It always seemed to strike a cord of reason with the students.
On the 'intimidate' question I come down this way. The use of force continuum begins with presence. If you can make your presence known to the intruder (by racking a firearm), and that presence is enough to make the bad guy run away without shooting him, good. If presence doesn't work, by all means shoot to stop the threat and do so with a clear conscience. That is more related to home defense. For CCW, I'd be much more inclined to carry chambered.
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 08, 2008, 09:09:54 AM
The guy at the gun shop was saying the same thing about people stocking up on short barrel AR-15's in anticipation of a Dem winning. I liked carrying the M4 in Iraq because of how small it is. Not exactly intimidating, but handy and pretty accurate.
Ours weren't full auto and I don't think I ever fired mine on burst but I was indifferent on the forward pistol grip. I ended up taking mine off and never missed it.
Were you active or contracting?
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 08, 2008, 09:25:34 AM
On the 'intimidate' question I come down this way. The use of force continuum begins with presence. If you can make your presence known to the intruder (by racking a firearm), and that presence is enough to make the bad guy run away without shooting him, good. If presence doesn't work, by all means shoot to stop the threat and do so with a clear conscience. That is more related to home defense. For CCW, I'd be much more inclined to carry chambered.
well stated and good logic, imho. however, the topic of chambered or not IS circular, as someone else stated.
so, for my mom's mother's day 1911 :D : night sights, improved grips, new and tuned extractor, trigger job (when i can), series 80 crap removed and replaced with a shim. anything else it needs?
i was thinking about getting a lighter main spring (hammer spring) to lighten the trigger drag. responses to that idea?
anyone else getting their mom some hardware for mother's day? ;D
Quote from: Sinister on May 08, 2008, 09:47:26 AM
Were you active or contracting?
I wish I was a contractor. I would have made 3-4x the money. I was activated Nat Guard.
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 08, 2008, 10:22:55 AM
I wish I was a contractor. I would have made 3-4x the money. I was activated Nat Guard.
Thanks for your service, Sgt.
Quote from: Sinister on May 08, 2008, 08:38:57 AM
Did you go with a standard double-tap, or a Mozambique? ;D
I went Somali style: all make the beast with two backsed up on Khat
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 08, 2008, 10:44:53 AM
I went Somali style: all make the beast with two backsed up on Khat
...and then cooked the dog for your 7 children?
Quote from: ducatizzy on May 08, 2008, 06:31:13 AM
So the 1911 and Glock are very popular since both have easy to swap barrel/magazine options, as is the German made Korth with 4 calibers swappable on the fly. HK has only offered the P7M13 with a swappable barrel.
Either way, it's an interesting design, but far too expensive for what it offers. Moreover, you have little or no aftermarket support, so you are stuck with the factory.
Yes and no.
Hk did offer the HK4, which was able to swap between .380(9mmkurz), .32, .25, and .22 rimfire(which is kinda neat!). But you are correct that there is no aftermarket available. I've had mine for almost twenty years now, and, except for having it reblued last year, it's been a very reliable weapon. It does take some getting used to at first, but once you train your muscle memory, it'll cock and fire as fast or faster than a more mainstream semiauto, and is very accurate.
I'm here i'm here folks, with my Kimber and the goodness of cobramags, ready to debate anyone about anything.
Sidenote: I now have a Marvel Precision 22lr conversion for my 1911. I got the 'practical' (unit 2) because i'm on a budget here, but it sure saves me money at the range. loads of fun too, and the fiance likes it quite a bit.
Quote from: Bun-bun on May 08, 2008, 01:42:57 PM
Yes and no.
Hk did offer the HK4, which was able to swap between .380(9mmkurz), .32, .25, and .22 rimfire(which is kinda neat!). But you are correct that there is no aftermarket available. I've had mine for almost twenty years now, and, except for having it reblued last year, it's been a very reliable weapon. It does take some getting used to at first, but once you train your muscle memory, it'll cock and fire as fast or faster than a more mainstream semiauto, and is very accurate.
you mean yes and yes.
the HK4 is a fundamentally different pistol from the HKP7. this wasn't a discussion of HK in general.
I also have an HK4 and have never met someone else with one. I have the 22 kit and the 32 kit, I haven't seen the 9mm kurz or 25 setup anywhere.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 08, 2008, 08:12:35 AM
I did a sweep of the house with my M4 last night.
Thought we heard something downstairs.
Turned out to be Greta banging her chewtoy around in the crate.
Cyrus, good to see you in these parts. Which M4 do you have? Ive been checking out the Rock River. Also been drooling over the PS90....
Quote from: printman on May 07, 2008, 03:45:23 AM
What would fail for this to happen?
Loaded chamber, hammer down. The most risky and stupid way to carry a 1911. Gun falls but first, lands on hammer which lets the hammer fall that tiny little bit of slack and BANG. Plus, it's useless; single action.
Also, could have happend the way ash mentioned. But to hit him in the heart, the gun would have to be pointing up, so the inertia of the f.p. would have been in the opposite direction.
Either way, that's some crazy shit. What are the odds of all those things happening AND it hitting you in an area that small with the whole world to hit instead?
Quote from: Bun-bun on May 07, 2008, 08:25:59 PM
OR. . .
Just ditch the century old technology, and pick up an H&K P-7.
P-7 is a bad ass weapon. Major muscle function then nice consistant trigger. Small, slim, smooth. Good choice. (no lead, though).
Quote from: ducatizzzz on May 08, 2008, 06:31:13 AM
...and HK has struggled with its sales.
... as is the German made Korth...
Very few people even know of the P-7 series. I think what killed it was the price from the get go was $1000 and that was years ago. I think the shop I worked in sold them for $1200 or so. Very expensive to make, for sure.
Korth's are beautiful.
I have a 1971 HK4 presentation model with the .380 and .22 barrels, in the boxes, unfired, with the test target and cleaning kit as supplied from the factory.
This was one of 100 that Hk sold to Harrington and Richardson for their 100th anniversary, and has the gold plate plaques on the sides .
You are right, the HK4 is not a squeeze cocker.
Jeff
Favorite gun ever.
For lunch, I tossed a 100 rounds of .45acp down range with my Colt 1991A1 interspersed with 150 rounds of .22LR with my Ruger MKII. Grabbed a chili dog on the way back to the office.
I feel better. Think I'll leave early...
George
1911's that you plan to use should be carried and stored cocked and locked. Any other way and all you have is an ammunition storage device. Leave the rack and fire method for the next episode of Miami Vice. Shotguns are different. The racking of the slide is a VERY useful part of the program. Kinda like the laser on a taser. It's not needed for aiming but usually intimidates the suspect into compliance.
very useful in a mall security context [cheeky]
dr::
Quote from: ducatizzzz on May 10, 2008, 06:54:29 PM
very useful in a mall security context [cheeky]
dr::
I'm still trying to picture cyrus clearing a house. I'm thinking the little dog took the lead, tiffers held the gun, and cyrus held the phone waiting to press the final "1" when the dog alerted on something.
Quote from: hbliam on May 10, 2008, 07:29:09 PM
I'm still trying to picture cyrus clearing a house. I'm thinking the little dog took the lead, tiffers held the gun, and cyrus held the phone waiting to press the final "1" when the dog alerted on something.
;:|
As far as the question about M4s go, I have a S&W MP15T and I really like it. Got it dressed out quite similar to the one I carried in Afghanistan, with the exception of a slightly longer barrel. Shoots really well with almost anything other than Wolf ammo. These are great rifles that won't break the bank, and as posted above: might want to get one before we get a Dem in office, because then they are GONE.
My buddy Matt just picked up a Kimber Pro Carry II, stainless with night sights.
His has been flawless so far. (I'm jealous, my Kimber came a little too tight from the factory). So that's a positive note for Kimber.
And is using a CTAC Holster, which he seems to be enamored with.
I just went over to xdtalk.com and they look very, very VS-ish. :P
It looks like VS has struck again, they're buying gun forums too. I thought most Canadians hated guns ???
M1911.org still is good.
So is TNGunwoners.com
I haven't been to xdtalk in over a year. Poopie.
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 07, 2008, 08:53:02 PM
Guns Rock.
I was in the shop the other day looking at all the goodies. They are making some nice M-4 clones now. Post ban they're as small as what the military gets. At least regular military. I didn't get one because I have no home defense use for it but it was tempting. They had a nice tactical 870 too. That, I may go back and get.
I've got both. A Bushmaster post-ban M4A3 and a Remington 870 Tactical. I love the both of them. I also have a Ruger P95 9mm.
Quote from: rgramjet on May 08, 2008, 04:17:46 PM
Cyrus, good to see you in these parts. Which M4 do you have? Ive been checking out the Rock River. Also been drooling over the PS90....
I looked at a PS90. I really, really wanted one, especially since it's nice for lefties (I shoot lefty) but I couldn't see spending $1700 on it.
Ive seen them stripped for $1300...
The ammo is hideously priced. Would almost make sense to get the FN 2000 in .223 but it feels a little too lunch boxy....
The ammo was definitely another consideration. I've seen them cheap on the internet at a few places but getting a local dealer to honor one of those prices is pretty hard.
I'm not a big fan of the FS2000. Anthony, from the Opie & Anthony Show, has one and loves it. He posted a video on youtube of him firing it. Here's the vid:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=reERNxljj28 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=reERNxljj28)
I just saw this story on the Consumerist:
http://consumerist.com/5008857/five+seven-gun-blows-up-in-owners-hand-manufacturer-indifferent (http://consumerist.com/5008857/five+seven-gun-blows-up-in-owners-hand-manufacturer-indifferent)
That story was posted on the TGO board. He was using his own reloads, and there's no way to guarantee he didn't do a shotty job of that particular round....
What's the TGO board?
Surprisingly for all the guns I own (the gf thinks 3 is a lot) I don't really have any sort of active online involvement in anything. I've got enough "gun nut" friends IRL so far to fulfill that. Plus I have a friend that's a civilian engineer at an Army base and I have access to a big ROTC brigade if I ever have an issue or question.
TGO - TN Gun Owners (www.tngunowners.com)
M1911 Forum - (www.M1911.org)
ARF-COM - AR-15 & AK Info - (www.ar15.com)
Rimfire Central - for 10/22 and other 22 / 17 shooters - (www.rimfirecentral.com)
Don't forget about THR - www.thehighroad.org
Hey ATO, thread jack but I just saw your sig......just finished a Bolivar Belicosa Habana with a glass of 18 year old Highland Park......perfect way to spend a Tuesday evening...
i can't think of much better way to spend an evening than enjoying a good cigar and drink while discussing firearms or motorcycles.
Anyone own a Kimber .45? If so what are your thoughts?
I went to local gun shop and looked at a number of them..the Kimber 45 felt really good but it was bit more expensive than I wanted to pay.
I own one: A Kimber Pro CDP II.
Had a lot of fail to feeds when it was new. After the recommended break-in, it ran really smooth: Now flawless (over 1000rnds through it).
My friend Matt just got a Kimber Pro Carry II (Stainless with night sights).
His ran flawless out of the box.
I've got a full size Warrior and kind of have mixed feelings about it. The gun is put together really well, but I cannot seem to keep from hitting to the left with it. I have put about four hundred rounds (of various different ammo) through it and it was always shot to the left. Tried adjusting the sights a bit to no avail, and then adjust my grip and stance with the weapon. Got a little better, but still shooting to the left. Need to take it back to the range and let some of the r'masters run a few rounds through it and see what they say. Might have to send it back to Kimber to get it sorted. Funny thing is that I have, and still have, had several other 1911s (as well as other .45s) and have never had an issue like this. :-\
Quote from: RobJohn3 on May 13, 2008, 07:13:04 PM
Anyone own a Kimber .45? If so what are your thoughts?
I went to local gun shop and look at a number of them..the Kimber 45 felt really good but it was bit more expensive than I wanted to pay.
i have loved the kimbers i've had - a Gold Match, an Aluminum Compact, and a Custom (iirc). never been disappointed.
when someone shoots with me i let them try everything else in my stable first, but they always say that they like the kimber best, no matter what their style or experience level. that says something to me about the quality of kimbers.
DRKWNG - call me crazy, but my internet diagnostic feeling is that your trigger is weird. have you removed all the series 80 crap (if it has it) and looked at smoothing out the trigger parts?
I know its not a 1911, but...
the H&K USP chambered in .45
Anyone shoot one?
Quote from: HobokenHooligan on May 14, 2008, 06:24:18 PM
I know its not a 1911, but...
the H&K USP chambered in .45
Anyone shoot one?
i have the full size 45 and the USPC both in 45 and love them. i thought i might carry the C, but it is just too wide.
excellent pistol all around tho, naildriver accurate out of the box.
Quote from: Manny on May 14, 2008, 09:50:30 AM
DRKWNG - call me crazy, but my internet diagnostic feeling is that your trigger is weird. have you removed all the series 80 crap (if it has it) and looked at smoothing out the trigger parts?
Mine is actually built up with series 70 style. I haven't gotten so far as to take the thing to the smithy just yet, but it is most likely on the list...
Played with a Sig 250 tonight.
No idea what caliber it was, I just had my paws all over it in the Sportsman's Warehouse. Its the one that you can change calibers on.
It has a 'smooth double action' trigger. Whatever nonsense its called, its awesome. I suggest everyone go out, right now, and place your booger hook on its bang switch.
Quote from: ato memphis on May 14, 2008, 07:57:25 PM
<snippy>
go out, right now, and place your booger hook on its bang switch.
[laugh]
Quote from: ato memphis on May 14, 2008, 07:57:25 PM
Played with a Sig 250 tonight.
No idea what caliber it was, I just had my paws all over it in the Sportsman's Warehouse. Its the one that you can change calibers on.
It has a 'smooth double action' trigger. Whatever nonsense its called, its awesome. I suggest everyone go out, right now, and place your booger hook on its bang switch.
QuoteThe P250, a modular pistol that allows the shooter to change caliber and size at will.... The SIG SAUER P250 was designed specifically to address the future needs of the military, law enforcement, and civilian shooters around the world. The P250 will be available in the most popular calibers (9mm, .357SIG, .40S&W and .45ACP). The P250's innovative design enables the shooter to quickly remove the functional mechanism and place it into the polymer grip of his choice. This allows an immediate change in caliber and size;(subcompact, compact and full). And after any change the pistol delivers both outstanding accuracy and reliable functionality. Its modularity not only provides incredible ease of maintenance, but also provides a solution for accommodating different hand sizes - there are 6 different ergonomic combinations for each size, accomplished by changes in grip circumference and trigger style. Now you can own the world's only modular shooting system globally engineered to deliver the "to hell and back" reliability you've come to expect from Sig Sauer.
interesting comes with several options for body size etc.
which i don't need bceause my hand doesn't change size.
But if the fit could be made more perfect, you would want it. also, they must justify sig sauer price tags somehow. seriously, go yank on the trigger, you'll be pleasantly surprised after finding out its DAO.
Quote from: ato memphis on May 14, 2008, 08:08:21 PM
But if the fit could be made more perfect, you would want it. also, they must justify sig sauer price tags somehow. seriously, go yank on the trigger, you'll be pleasantly surprised after finding out its DAO.
i looked at some of the technical description, sounds vaguely like Justin Moon's setup -- preset striker with sculpted lobes camming the pin?
Are you describing my ears?
Quote from: ato memphis on May 15, 2008, 05:19:54 AM
Are you describing my ears?
is your name Beavis? or Cornholio? [laugh] [laugh]
I'm certain you referenced lobes. [cheeky]
Back to the Sig250 - The hammer lays flat, so you can't snag it on anything, and since you can't cock it, it makes sense. Came with light rail.
Does not come polished gold, so you must thug-it-out with your D.E. still.
ah.
for some reason, i missed the hammer, duh.
i am not a fan of bobbed hammers. i dont see the point. buy a striker-fired pistol if you don't want a hammer, the whole advantage of a hammer is the ability to manually cock it -- once you remove that function, then it is an anachronism.
i have a HK USPC that came with a bobbed hammer and i couldn't stand it. DAO pistols are fine, but not if they have a hammer IMHO -- it's like putting a 5th wheel on a car, i think.
I had a smith modify the USPC to have a full hammer and safety -- it prev had only decock. (type 3 to type 1 i think). now it is more useable to me. the hammer setup i put on is recessed, but still cock-able. firing it dao functions the same way.
if you don't want an exposed hammer, then i would look at a striker fired pistol. i have a FN 49 which I love -- highly underrated pistol. i think it is the only repeatable striker in the biz.
Don't mean to go political on you guys in the wrong forum, but am I the only one who's scared that Obama wants to disarm the U.S.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/630645/barak_obamas_gun_control_positions.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/06/AR2008040601652.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns
http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm
Not the only one, start a thread about GC in the politics forum and i'll join in.
FTR, I think its really poorly thought out, and typical politician scare tactics.
Want to get elected? Scare the public into thinking you are the only avenue for safety, even if the problem is nonexistent or different than what you using as electile propaganda.
The thread hath been created for the political discussion, related hitherto.
There are two kinds of pistols....1911s and everything else. ;D I own 3 Kimbers, a Custom (OR made), a Compact and a Pro Carry II. I have zero complaints about any of them, although I do wish I'd bought the Pro Carry before the Series II came out as I could do without that firing pin block.
I've owned 2 Glocks and a HK USP and sold all 3. I would like a P7 but I can't justify the price tag.
I've had no problems with my series II firing pin block, makes slide dissassembly for detail strip a step more involved i suppose, but that's it.
And the extra caution when field stripping, but it doesn't phase me too much.
Anybody had a Sig? Any thoughts? Thinking about a P232 for CC.
The one I shot was very well built. Had a decocker. The 250 I put my paws on was too big for CC unless you are also a little big.
The Sig 1911 has kind of ugly lines in person, compared to some other 1911's.
Nothing really compares with a Nighthawk Custom or a SVi/Infinity though.
Quote from: M1000S/749S on May 15, 2008, 10:15:20 AM
Anybody had a Sig? Any thoughts? Thinking about a P232 for CC.
I fired a buddies P229 Elite. The thing was awesome. Chambered in 40 S&W. It felt nice and solid and was a real nail driver. The only thing I didn't like was the grip was a little too short for me and I've got pretty small hands. If you've got big mitts it'll probably be too small for you.
I
i've shot the 9mm and the .40 of that series, but not the P232 yet. the smaller ones were great, and would be good for CC.
My Arsenal:
HK USP Compact 9mm night sites, trigger job, polished and honed all internals
HK USP .45 night sites, lightened trigger spring, polished all internals
Walther PPS 9mm stock...this gun is AMAZING...sooooo very small and thin, super high quality and accurate. This is my CCW weapon of choice
Kimber Ultra Covert .45 crimson trace grips, full polish and trigger, custom springs
Berettta Silver Pigeon 12 gauge (matched pair)
Stoeger S/S 20 gauge
Marlin 39A .22 lever action (1949)
Winchester Model 94 30-30 (1952)
Winchester Model 94 .44 Mag (1950)
I have a CCW in Missouri, am a member at 2 shooting ranges and instruct basic and advanced tactical handgun techniques. 8)
Please provide brief review of quality of your Stoeger. I'm looking at getting one.
Stoeger is a funny gun.
I bought it to take my son rabbit hunting this season. It was his first hunting trip. :)
I am keenly aware of all of the shit talked about this gun and I was aware of it before I bought it too. I couldn't bear the idea of a couple kids walking arround with a matched set of $3500 shotguns though and was looking for something cheap, cheap, cheap; that would do the job and I am a snob about side by side guns...so it had to be S/S. Also...12 gauge too big for bunnies.
I have been pleasantly surprised with the guns overall performance. It shoot straight enough (it's a shotgun), it ejects shells when you break it open and I absolutely do NOT CARE if I scratch it, drop it, immerse it in liquid or otherwise abuse it.
Now if you wanna talk about the stock finish quality or the precision machining...dude, it's a $275 side by side...it's junk compared to a nice gun. On the other hand if you want hunt. I'll confidently hunt side by side with anybody and do fine with it. You will too. Assuming you can shoot [thumbsup]
There has been talk about a sticky firing pin issue with these guns but I have had no trouble. I keep all my firearms VERY VERY CLEAN AND WELL LUBRICATED and I have a feeling that given the overall machining tolerances of this weapon that is probably a really good idea. But if you keep it clean and lubed you can kill a lot of shit with it all for a meager $275.
Killin', that's why you buy guns...right?
I wish somebody would ask me about the Walther PPS...God I love that gun.
Haha, the P22 I shot was far too picky on ammo, and I have a 22lr conversion by Marvel for my 1911.
The Stoeger O/U looks like a fun gun to learn clay shooting with for the price. I thought finish-wise, when I held it, was nicer than the cost of the gun should allow (but nothing amazing)
And, about the clean & lube, when I'm bored I often clean. I like the smell of the solvents, sue me.
Mmmmmm.....solvents. I'm a little high on Hopps right now ;D
Yeah, the fit and finish is fine for what it is. I really was pleasantly surprised...it's made in Brazil and it's good for what it is.
PPS not picky AT ALL...and I have run some crap through it. Holds 6 with the pinky free clip or 7 with a full grip clip, is less than 1 inch thick and shows no visiable print under clothing...and fits in jean pockets. As for accuracy, I can hit as good with it as I can with my USP 9mm...which is to say...driving tacks at 15 yards 8)
I have a very old Ruger single six, a Bersa thunder 380 which is an argentinan knock off of a PPK, a 10/22 and a .17 rimfire mag. I've always had a soft spot for the single sixes. I've owned the Bersa since new and say what you want but its been a great gun. It can be picky with ammo, it does not like wadcutter rounds, but will digest anything else. Its obviously not a tackdriver but I can get it to group within 4 inches at 15 feet. I have over 3000 rounds through it too. I leave it hammer down on the hammer block with one in the chamber. It will fire from double action or single but the pull can be hard to get used to on the former.
I have almost bought a Bersa a couple times...they are good guns. Consistantly reliable and they guys at the range really like them.
I have also been considering a used Kahr .45. I really liked the feel of the gun and pretty much everything about it until I tried the slide. Once racked, I couldn't get it to retract. Guy at the counter said they were really tight and it would be easier loaded...I am skeptical. I teach firearm training and shoot a couple 1000 rnds a month with many students guns and haven't seen a slide like that. Otherwise, the gun is a reasonably priced small .45 and I LOVE the hand feel and ergo's.
I want a single six...but don't know which one. Since I won't carry it and it will be purely a range gun (I don't for see joining SASS) the options are wide open. Any suggestions?
Quote from: M1000S/749S on May 15, 2008, 10:15:20 AM
Anybody had a Sig? Any thoughts? Thinking about a P232 for CC.
The P232 is a great gun, but for the size. It's a .380 and you can find a better 9mm or even .40 in something the same physical size.
QuotePosted by: ato memphis
Please provide brief review of quality of your Stoeger. I'm looking at getting one.
I've had a Stoeger "coach gun" for about 8 years and I love it. It is not something you'll use everyday, but it is the shotgun I keep behind the bedroom door.
Their O/U guns (Condor) are very nice and cheap-priced. A friend has one and we did skeet with it -- it handled superbly. Can't beat it for $300. They have a nice-r version with better wood and polish for about $500, still can't beat it. Good workmanship. They are imported by Benelli, I think, and very good warranty backup.
The Bersa Thunder 9mm and 40 are actually VERY nice guns. I saw one at the range, and handled it. Very nicely done and cheaper than other jobs.
Good to know about the Stoeger's, seems like a smarter buy than a Charles Daly - They look great but I've heard some negative things about their older models. (perhaps fixed now).
I still think everyone should own a 10/22. Like a Monster, its infinitely customizable.
And speaking of wadcutter rounds, unless you are reloading - where does one even purchase such a thing? I've never seen anything but ball point, hollow point, and 'soft nose' - a filled in hollow point, with a flat face (Winchester SXT's or whatever)
Quote from: ato memphis on May 17, 2008, 08:38:02 AM
Good to know about the Stoeger's, seems like a smarter buy than a Charles Daly - They look great but I've heard some negative things about their older models. (perhaps fixed now).
I still think everyone should own a 10/22. Like a Monster, its infinitely customizable.
And speaking of wadcutter rounds, unless you are reloading - where does one even purchase such a thing? I've never seen anything but ball point, hollow point, and 'soft nose' - a filled in hollow point, with a flat face (Winchester SXT's or whatever)
Have you tried Natchez Shooter Supply? www.natchezss.com (http://www.natchezss.com) They have a huge supply of ammo and it's pretty cheap. Unfortunately since it's pretty cheap a lot of common stuff sells out pretty fast.
Anyone done business with http://www.gunsatcost.com (http://www.gunsatcost.com)? They say they have factory Beretta mags, but never having done business with them, I'm not sure I trust them not to send some crap. I don't have time to play mail tag if this site isn't legit so thanks in advance for any info.
Quote from: Sgt_H on May 21, 2008, 06:21:45 AM
Anyone done business with http://www.gunsatcost.com (http://www.gunsatcost.com)? They say they have factory Beretta mags, but never having done business with them, I'm not sure I trust them not to send some crap. I don't have time to play mail tag if this site isn't legit so thanks in advance for any info.
never heard of them, but check out CDNN, who I've used for decades now. they often have your mags both factory and Mecgar brands very cheap
www.cdnninvestments.com
shipping is a flat rate no matter what you buy and they often have some great deals on guns. i got a Gen3 Glock 17 that was an Austrian police trade-in, came with the glock holster and it is the only Glock I've seen that has "Made in Austria" instead of "Made in Smyrna, Georgia" on the frame.
EDIT : FYI you have to download their catalogue in PDF to see the guns they have for sale, they don't put them on the website.
Thanks for the help, checking them out now
Quote from: RobJohn3 on May 13, 2008, 07:13:04 PM
Anyone own a Kimber .45? If so what are your thoughts?
I went to local gun shop and looked at a number of them..the Kimber 45 felt really good but it was bit more expensive than I wanted to pay.
Nah, they're not expensive. I have two of them. I fell in love with a Nighthawk Custom at the NRA Convention this past weekend. Now, they ARE expensive. ;D
Quote from: Manny on May 14, 2008, 09:50:30 AM
i have loved the kimbers i've had - a Gold Match, an Aluminum Compact, and a Custom (iirc). never been disappointed.
when someone shoots with me i let them try everything else in my stable first, but they always say that they like the kimber best, no matter what their style or experience level. that says something to me about the quality of kimbers.
DRKWNG - call me crazy, but my internet diagnostic feeling is that your trigger is weird. have you removed all the series 80 crap (if it has it) and looked at smoothing out the trigger parts?
Both my Kimbers have run flawlessly. I was at the range a couple of weeks ago with a friend of mine and tried his Sig 220. I didn't care for it, but he really liked my Pro Carry II. [thumbsup]
As for the Warrior, that's one of the few Kimber models without the Series II Swartz safety. The Swartz is nothing like the Series 80 in that it doesn't interact with the trigger. It's activated by the grip safety. Highly unlikely it would cause the problem he's having. Even if he had one. [laugh]
Quote from: BlackHills on May 15, 2008, 09:07:28 AM
There are two kinds of pistols....1911s and everything else. ;D I own 3 Kimbers, a Custom (OR made), a Compact and a Pro Carry II. I have zero complaints about any of them, although I do wish I'd bought the Pro Carry before the Series II came out as I could do without that firing pin block.
I've owned 2 Glocks and a HK USP and sold all 3. I would like a P7 but I can't justify the price tag.
I hate to break this to you, but your "Clackamas" was made in Yonkers, NY just like all the Kimber pistols. They never made any 1911s in OR. When your pistol was made, the corporate offices were still in OR, that's why it was marked that way.
Kimber makes really high quality guns. If you want a 1911 it is a good way to go.
I use a Covert w/ CT grips to teach proper combat shoot technique and run a lot of rounds through it. That said the 1911 is not a modern design. Breaks into MANY parts and requires a tool to field strip. If you want a 1911 for it's accuracy and wonderful hand feel, Kimber is a good mid-priced choice. If you want a handgun for self defense only, buy a more modern gun. Walther P99, H&K P2000 in .40 (or even the dreaded 9mm) or a H&K USP if you must have a .45. These guns field strip into 5-6 pieces, clean up in seconds and run flawlessly even when dirty....not so true of a 1911.
Don't get caught up in the ballistics size queen thing though. Yeah, .45 is better but I have seen people shot with .9mm with pretty much the same out come. A double tap to center mass from any of the major calibers will do it's job of defending you in most cases. Learn to shoot and hit your target under stressful conditions and caliber stops being much of an issue.
Quote from: raulduke on May 21, 2008, 02:33:15 PM
Kimber makes really high quality guns. If you want a 1911 it is a good way to go.
I use a Covert w/ CT grips to teach proper combat shoot technique and run a lot of rounds through it. That said the 1911 is not a modern design. Breaks into MANY parts and requires a tool to field strip. If you want a 1911 for it's accuracy and wonderful hand feel, Kimber is a good mid-priced choice. If you want a handgun for self defense only, buy a more modern gun. Walther P99, H&K P2000 in .40 (or even the dreaded 9mm) or a H&K USP if you must have a .45. These guns field strip into 5-6 pieces, clean up in seconds and run flawlessly even when dirty....not so true of a 1911.
Don't get caught up in the ballistics size queen thing though. Yeah, .45 is better but I have seen people shot with .9mm with pretty much the same out come. A double tap to center mass from any of the major calibers will do it's job of defending you in most cases. Learn to shoot and hit your target under stressful conditions and caliber stops being much of an issue.
The Govt. size Kimbers, except for the Warrior and the SIS, use full length guide rods which is why you need a bushing wrench to field strip it. If you switch to a GI guide rod (like the two models I mentioned use), no tools are necessary. The old Colt GI 1911s are like an AK-47, they will run filthy. The newer match quality ones with the necessary tighter tolerances, sure they like to be clean.
I disagree with your assertion though that the 1911 isn't as capable a self defense pistol as the others you mentioned. I feel totally confident with my condition one 1911 on my hip. ;D
+1. Cocked, Locked, and Ready to Rock.
My only point was...for a "non-shooter" or first time hand gun owner a 1911 is a bit complex, compared to some modern designs. Simpler gun to many (not all) owners will mean a cleaner weapon that is more likely to be reassembled correctly and functioning properly when needed.
They are great guns...been around 100 years for a reason. I own one and really like it. It's not a "duty" gun for most applications but it certainly fits the self-defense bill for me.
Nothing better for shooting communists than a 1911.
Quote from: ato memphis on May 22, 2008, 05:20:22 AM
Nothing better for shooting communists than a 1911.
Thank you James Garner!
I shoot a .40 sig sauer p229. The "safety" mechanism on it allows for a loaded chamber and decocked hammer with virtually no chance of accidental discharge. I dont carry it, however, because its heavy and snaggy.
Quote from: CLIVE on May 22, 2008, 08:52:15 AM
I shoot a .40 sig sauer p229. The "safety" mechanism on it allows for a loaded chamber and decocked hammer with virtually no chance of accidental discharge. I dont carry it, however, because its heavy and snaggy.
interesting, same reason i dumped my ex wife.
does anyone here shoot/carry the Daewoo "tri-action" pistols?
daewoo makes guns?! they make everything.
i hear daewoo pancake batter is pretty good, but their aluminum siding is piss poor, so i dont know about their guns.
Quote from: CLIVE on May 22, 2008, 09:37:46 AM
daewoo makes guns?! they make everything.
i hear daewoo pancake batter is pretty good, but their aluminum siding is piss poor, so i dont know about their guns.
yes, they do and they are awesome.
Google AR100 or K2 for the most perfect adaptation of the AR and AK rifles. Their pistols are unique, have a tri-action hammer -- cock it, then push the hammer down. Pull the trigger and the hammer springs back and then again to fire.
They also make the Gilbert auto shotgun, the USAS12
The K2:
(http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/spid3rman79/daewook2.jpg)
Pic no worky.
Also, you meant heavy and NAGGY about the ex wife, not snaggy.
Quote from: ato memphis on May 22, 2008, 10:07:36 AM
Pic no worky.
Also, you meant heavy and NAGGY about the ex wife, not snaggy.
hmm, pic works fine for me..
you can google it just fine tho... daewoo K2
Quote from: raulduke on May 21, 2008, 10:46:04 PM
My only point was...for a "non-shooter" or first time hand gun owner a 1911 is a bit complex, compared to some modern designs. Simpler gun to many (not all) owners will mean a cleaner weapon that is more likely to be reassembled correctly and functioning properly when needed.
They are great guns...been around 100 years for a reason. I own one and really like it. It's not a "duty" gun for most applications but it certainly fits the self-defense bill for me.
I'll agree with that, they're called the "expert's gun" for a reason. [thumbsup]
I wouldn't recommend one to someone for their first pistol either.
Quote from: ato memphis on May 22, 2008, 10:07:36 AM
Pic no worky.
Also, you meant heavy and NAGGY about the ex wife, not snaggy.
We haven't seen her tits, could be saggy. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
article about Daewoo pistol
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg47-e.htm
QuoteDaewoo K5 / DP51 pistol is short recoil operated, locked breech weapon. It uses a conventional Browning-type locking system, with two lugs on the barrel engaging cuts inside the slide. Locking and unlocking is controlled by the cam-shaped lug at the bottom of the barrel. Frame of the pistol is made from aluminium alloy; all other parts are made from steel. Trigger is of “triple action†type. This means that other than traditional double or single action fire modes it has “fast action†mode, apparently borrowed from FN's GP “Fast Action†pistol. In this mode hammer is cocked by the cycle of the slide, then it is pushed forward by the pressure on the hammer head. In this position, the main spring remains cocked, so only light pressure on the trigger is necessary to recock the hammer and fire the gun in the “double action mannerâ€. Or, alternatively, hammer can be recocked manually to be fired in single action for maximum first-shot accuracy. Sights are fixed, with the rear sight dovetailed to the slide. Magazines are of double stack type; proprietary magazines holt 13 rounds, but DP-51 also can use Smith-Wesson 5906 magazines, which will slightly protrude from the bottom of the grip.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on May 22, 2008, 09:40:56 AM
Google AR100 or K2 for the most perfect adaptation of the AR and AK rifles.
(http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/spid3rman79/daewook2.jpg)
You obviously haven't been around the SIG 556 yet then?
Quote from: Ducatania on May 22, 2008, 01:12:40 PM
You obviously haven't been around the SIG 556 yet then?
yes, actually, I have. fielded a StGw90 at a range in Breisgau, it was a nice gun to say the least.
however, the 550's bolt vs the K2 is like night and day. you can field strip the K2 in about 20 seconds, the 550 takes much longer.
moreover, the K2 came out about 8 years before the 550 and I don't feel SIG has made that many improvements over the K2's system.
And now the waiting begins. Ordered a Nighthawk Custom todsy. [thumbsup]
awesome, what features/colors/etc?
Post pics in a few months when it comes in
Quote from: ato memphis on May 22, 2008, 10:44:18 PM
awesome, what features/colors/etc?
Post pics in a few months when it comes in
Commander size w/ bobtail, black slide wi/ sniper grey frame Perma-Kote finish, cocobolo grips, serrated top and back of slide, chainlink scalloping on front strap and MSH, Heine sights. ;D
That will be a seriously pretty gun...nice choices
Is it to be your bbq gun or a daily carry?
Quote from: ato memphis on May 23, 2008, 07:18:50 AM
Is it to be your bbq gun or a daily carry?
I carry all my pistols. Just not generally all at the same time. [laugh]
We'll see if the Pro Carry II hangs around after I get it? I really like the light weight of it and the Talon won't fit in my VMII holster. I'll be carrying my Custom Royal II in the Summer Special 2 more often now to get used to the heavier weight.
Basically if my wife decides she wants that Para PDA she likes, I may trade the PCII towards it. I'm not in any hurry to make ay decisions. ;D
I am contemplating getting a gun this year and would like to hear a little advice.
I am slightly hollywood influenced and would like to get the Desert Eagle, but also because I can step up the barrels as I get better at shooting. That and having a .50 caliber would be fun to play with on rare occassions (those bullets are expensive)
If you guys know of better options, I am all ears.
The Sig 250. You can change calibers, and grip shape.
Its a great double action gun.
If most of what you know comes from movies, you don't know anything about guns yet. They are unfortunately the worst when it comes to getting anything correct.
Exhibit A.) You cannot cock a glock.
Exhibit B.) After several shots, you must reload.
Exhibit C.) Unless you are shooting a 22 handgun, one handed shooting moves the gun quite a bit.
Exhibit D.) Dual Weilding does not happen in real life. And when it does, it does not turn out good for whoever is trying it.
a Deagle, as it is often called, is a neat gun, much like a Hayabusa is a "neat" bike. But its pure gonzo plinking fun. Nobody but folks in the movies carry those (however, a gold one and a nickel one can be seen in the case at Guns and Ammo here in Memphis).
They are neat, but looking into a standard caliber: 38special, 357, 9mm, 40, 45 would be a better start for a first gun.
if you want to get 'good' at shooting, starting with a 22 and learning good habits is the best bet.
And ammo is super cheap: 550 in a federal/remington bulk pack for $15 or so. in comparison, 50 .45acp rounds are $20 (for ball nose). Fancy branded self defense hollow points are often double that price.
My first handgun was a Ruger P89 with decocker and safety, in 9mm. It was a great first gun, built like a tank, went bang everytime, but it was ugly as sin. I've had an S&W, tried the glock, and have a kimber 1911 also.
The best money spent was on a 22 conversion for the 1911. 45 ammo is expensive, and the 22 conversion is a big tattle-tale for flinching. My groups have tightened up a whole lot since then.
And don't discount the fun of a wheel gun. Dirty Harry and all westerns wouldn't be as cool as they are with anything but.
Quote from: ducatania on May 23, 2008, 09:50:26 AM
I carry all my pistols. Just not generally all at the same time. [laugh]
We'll see if the Pro Carry II hangs around after I get it? I really like the light weight of it and the Talon won't fit in my VMII holster. I'll be carrying my Custom Royal II in the Summer Special 2 more often now to get used to the heavier weight.
Basically if my wife decides she wants that Para PDA she likes, I may trade the PCII towards it. I'm not in any hurry to make ay decisions. ;D
Do you carry a full-size 1911 in your VMII? If so, how do you like it? I am considering buying one to carry mine.
Quote from: fwtcc on June 10, 2008, 01:08:34 PM
I am contemplating getting a gun this year and would like to hear a little advice.
I am slightly hollywood influenced and would like to get the Desert Eagle, but also because I can step up the barrels as I get better at shooting. That and having a .50 caliber would be fun to play with on rare occassions (those bullets are expensive)
If you guys know of better options, I am all ears.
the 50 caliber that the Desert Eagle fires are 50AE, not the same 500 magnum that S&W uses. 50AE ("Action Express") rounds are hard to find and pricey.
I used to love the DE, but since I grew up a bit, I realized it is a goofy gun. It weighs about 3 lbs and it is not anything but a hollywood showpiece (IMHO).
Swapping calibers is overrated and the premium you'll pay to get a gun which does that might enable you to buy 2 or 3 other single-caliber guns at the same cost.
I am a fan of "official" calibers, which in pistol parlance means 9, 40 and 45 these days. For revolvers, that means 38, 357 and 44.
You might sink 8-900 into a multi-caliber gun, but if you shop around you can find veyr good 40's for around 400 and 45's in the same range. MOST 40's can be swapped to a 9mm (the round length is the same, intentionally).
Waht is your price range? The Desert Eagle starts around 2500 IIRC.
If price is no object and you just want caliber options, buy a Korth.
Or a Custom Nighthawk in your choice.
Quote from: ato memphis on June 10, 2008, 05:14:40 PM
Or a Custom Nighthawk in your choice.
I want an Ed Brown...
i have a few of his parts on my Kimber, they are very high quality. I want a bobtail pretty bad for carry.
Thanks for the advice fellas, that is mostly what I assumed about the gun.
I guess I could get a 9mm and a 45 and still be under the cost of the DE.
Any suggestions on those two?
.45
However, you should try different guns and see which one you like. Shoot both calibers; some people don't like the recoil of the .45. 9-mm is the bare minimum defense caliber, IMO.
9mm vs 45 is a tired debate though, and its not for lack of dead bodies (quote i heard recently)
The 40 is an interesting in-between round, with a snappier recoil than the 45 (which has more of a push).
I have both a 9 and a 45, and think they are great.
its ok to have things with a 3 as the first number, so long as its a wheel gun: 38/357 and the 44 round is also pretty neat.
I would like to get both.
9mm- I have a friend with a laser sighted glock set up and thats pretty cool.
1911- No idea, from what I have read Kimbers are good. Thats the extent of what I know. Are they affordable? I know with bows, Matthews are quite nice, but piss off on that price, I can just learn to have better form.
I have a Kimber. It did not run smooth out of the box. For the price, it should have.
I've got somewhere over 1500rnds through it now, and it runs great.
They often come with chambers that are ungodly tight, and extractors with a hair too much tension, that make it fail to return to battery (FTRB) on occasion.
I'm quite happy with mine (Kimber Pro CDP II) but it needed slim grips (daily carry), an aluminum mainspring housing (kimbers come with plastic. on a 1911. wtf.) and my ambi safety broke on me (yay MIM parts!), so it has been replaced with a Ed Brown standard safety.
I would suggest also looking into Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, and certainly Colt.
I have a friend who was quite unhappy with his Springfield, but could never articulate why. I think they are fine guns.
M1911.org has plenty of information if you can handle it.
I have a Springer, and love it.
Quote from: fwtcc on June 11, 2008, 09:27:02 AM
I would like to get both.
9mm- I have a friend with a laser sighted glock set up and thats pretty cool.
1911- No idea, from what I have read Kimbers are good. Thats the extent of what I know. Are they affordable? I know with bows, Matthews are quite nice, but piss off on that price, I can just learn to have better form.
The Auto Ordnance "government model" is probably one of the best-quality, lowER priced 1911s around -- no bells or whistles, just the original features of the gun in an updated manufacturing package.
There are a few imports which are decently priced too. PAC (Philipine Arms Corp) is actually a very good pistol. It is not a tack-driver, it is a point-click-bang gun with good ballistics and good metal. I have two of them (ok, it was a sale). One of them came with a deformed sear which cost me $80+labor to replace. it was still worth it --$350 each.
The best thing for you to do is go to a gun shop with a good number of guns and tell them you are shopping around for your first gun and have little hands-on experience with the ergonomics and handling and you'd like to handle a few good examples (i.e. quality and price range). The next thing is to head to a range which rents pistols (not all do) and spend a little time shooting. Do it slowly and carefully and just take your time -- you aren't trying to win any contests and you just need to get a feel for firing the guns that handle well.
beyond that, it is up to you.
9 vs 45 vs 40? it's all bullshit. give me a guy who can hit 10 out of 10 with a .22 and i'll take him as my backup guy over someone who hits 5/10 with a .45.
that said, the rule is "use the largest caliber you can shoot and carry effectively". this has to do with pistol design as much as caliber.
Good coversations! Seem to be some knowledgeable people here.
I have a XD9, but I'd love to upgrade to a 1911 with a .22lr conversion. Any idea what I'd be looking at price wise?
Most 22lr conversions cost in the ball park of $300. They range typically from $250 - $400+, and you'll need extra mags. I have a Marvel conversion and it runs flawlessly, and it is very accurate. Mine is the practical Unit 2; their Unit 1 is more accurate, but also more expensive.
A 1911 can cost you, as a base, from about $400-$5000+, Kimbers run between $750-$1500, Wilson Combats are $1500-$4000, 'bigger' brands like Springfield and Cold have less expensive models with fewer bells and whistles. Many of said bells and whistles you don't even want.
Quote from: NvrSummer on June 11, 2008, 12:12:04 PM
Good coversations! Seem to be some knowledgeable people here.
I have a XD9, but I'd love to upgrade to a 1911 with a .22lr conversion. Any idea what I'd be looking at price wise?
I thought they have a 22lr conversion for the xd?
they certainly make 'em for glocks.
While cheaper to practice with, the .22 conversion doesn't help you deal with the recoil, and sight-picture reacquisition, resulting from the .45 cartridge. Discuss.
I practice with both, and my groups have tightened up signficantly when i added in the 22 conversion. It is obvious when i flinch to a greater extent AND the little holes are clear/distinct, unlike the muddiness of big .45 caliber holes.
You can still practice quickly unholstering and getting the first shot off, with a gun that feels just like yours. Same safety, etc.
And, the flinch thing. I also advocate having a friend load some snap caps in your magazine randomly so that occasionally one round will surprise you by NOT going off. You'll watch yourself push down on the gun in anticipation, and realize why your groups are not one ragged hole.
Also its loads of fun, and my fiance actually enjoys shooting it.
Quote from: ato memphis on June 11, 2008, 12:39:24 PM
Most 22lr conversions cost in the ball park of $300. They range typically from $250 - $400+, and you'll need extra mags. I have a Marvel conversion and it runs flawlessly, and it is very accurate. Mine is the practical Unit 2; their Unit 1 is more accurate, but also more expensive.
A 1911 can cost you, as a base, from about $400-$5000+, Kimbers run between $750-$1500, Wilson Combats are $1500-$4000, 'bigger' brands like Springfield and Cold have less expensive models with fewer bells and whistles. Many of said bells and whistles you don't even want.
Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for the info. I figure I could probably get $250 for my XD on a trade in, and have a 45 w/ 22 barrel for about $700 out of pocket? Sounds reasonable!
Quote from: Kaveh on June 11, 2008, 01:22:17 PM
I thought they have a 22lr conversion for the xd?
Not for the 9mm I don't think? ???
Don't get me wrong, I love my XD, but I love 1911's more. Plus I'd love to be able to plink 22LR's with the same frame.
Not sure about XD's with conversions. Don't have an XD to learn about!
if you want to practice plinking with your 1911, consider the Ruger 22/45. it's a Ruger standard model with a grip and controls very similar to the 1911.
about the same price as a 22 conversion and you get a second iron.
Cool! A 1911 thread!!!......
My wife and I have something like 54 firearms and IIRC correctly, we have eight 1911s......I think. Let's see I have the Gold Cup, Goverment, LW Commander, and Officers (all Colts), a Norinco, a RIA, and the wife has a S&W, RIA, and Para Ordnance Warthog.....I guess that makes nine.
Interestingly, out of all of them, I actually shoot my cheapo RIA 1911 the best, modified with only a Wilson Combat hammer and beavertail safety and Hogue grips...
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d32/Kramer_Krazy/RIA_1911A1.jpg)
Quote from: Sinister on June 11, 2008, 01:29:32 PM
While cheaper to practice with, the .22 conversion doesn't help you deal with the recoil, and sight-picture reacquisition, resulting from the .45 cartridge. Discuss.
absolutely right. I don't think people should really consider it practice if you already regularly shoot your .45.
But it's great for a little fun, and the best use for me has been the ability to teach both my wife and some friends how to shoot.
My wife got to learn without intimidation, and all the controls were the same because, well, they were the actually the same...not just close or similar.
So when she became comfortable shooting it as a .22 she moved up to shooting it as a .45
Very different in some ways, but I was no longer worried about basic control function and feel.
(do you practice on a monster 620 when you have an RS? no. Is it still fun to ride? yes. Is the 620 the one you'd teach someone else to ride on? yes. would the controls be the same then for a bigger monster? yes..ok less so than the EXACT same controls as with the pistol, but you get the analogy by now)
that is a pretty good analogy. my lady definitely likes shooting the 22 - and especially outside and nontraditional targets (cans, bottles with liquid in them, things that do something when you shoot them rather than just get a hole in them)
+1 on the analogy, Statler. I don't know why Cyrus says you are a no-nothing prick. [laugh] [thumbsup]
My .02 cents.
+1 on Ducatizzz....it's not really the caliber it the shooter. I instruct tactical handgun training and anything over .38 is fine as long as you can hit. Practice double taps to center mass. Two of anything in the chest is gonna put a bad guy down (I have seen a fair number of people shot with 9mm and regardless of all the ballistic BS about .45 wounding vs 9mm... they all seemed very uncomfortable and stopped misbehaving immediately). Bigger is better but only if you can hit with it
One point not discussed is ammo cost. 9mm range ammo is way cheaper than .45...especially if you are a new shooter and need to rack up lots of rounds. If you can't afford to learn to shoot your .45 you would have been better off with a 9mm or .38.
Lastly, +1 on .22 conversion kits NOT counting as practice. Sorry, but unless you are gonna shoot the bad guy with .22 don't bother practicing with it. The difference in recoil and even sound will render this practice nearly valueless in a defensive situation. (if you are practicing for competition shooting you can learn some things with a .22 kit , focus, form, breath control etc. but not for defensive shooting).
Quote from: raulduke on June 13, 2008, 11:36:27 AM
My .02 cents.
+1 on Ducatizzz....it's not really the caliber it the shooter. I instruct tactical handgun training and anything over .38 is fine as long as you can hit. Practice double taps to center mass. Two of anything in the chest is gonna put a bad guy down (I have seen a fair number of people shot with 9mm and regardless of all the ballistic BS about .45 wounding vs 9mm... they all seemed very uncomfortable and stopped misbehaving immediately). Bigger is better but only if you can hit with it
One point not discussed is ammo cost. 9mm range ammo is way cheaper than .45...especially if you are a new shooter and need to rack up lots of rounds. If you can't afford to learn to shoot your .45 you would have been better off with a 9mm or .38.
Lastly, +1 on .22 conversion kits NOT counting as practice. Sorry, but unless you are gonna shoot the bad guy with .22 don't bother practicing with it. The difference in recoil and even sound will render this practice nearly valueless in a defensive situation. (if you are practicing for competition shooting you can learn some things with a .22 kit , focus, form, breath control etc. but not for defensive shooting).
Ain't that the truth. That's the only reason I still own a 9mm. The cost comparison from one box of 50 to another is outrageous.
Quote from: raulduke on June 13, 2008, 11:36:27 AM
<snip>... they all seemed very uncomfortable and stopped misbehaving immediately
<snip>
[laugh]
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0096.jpg)
Back from the dead but here are my guns. The top two are from Afganistan that my dad picked up. Both are made 1833, the other is a para special edition 82nd Airborne 1911, which my dad had left to me. I love it but it will miss feed once fouled up with the cheap stuff. Will this get better once everything 'breaks in."
what kind of barrels do the Afghani pistols have? are they Damascus type? I'd love to check those out.
does your 1911 have the GI type half feed ramp or is it a full feed ramp?
the GI version has problems with anything but ball ammo since the half ramp can catch on the projectile. some makers have redesigned the frame so the barrel has a full ramp (like the Hi Power and every other Browning style gun after...)
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 11, 2009, 06:39:52 PM
what kind of barrels do the Afghani pistols have? are they Damascus type? I'd love to check those out.
does your 1911 have the GI type half feed ramp or is it a full feed ramp?
the GI version has problems with anything but ball ammo since the half ramp can catch on the projectile. some makers have redesigned the frame so the barrel has a full ramp (like the Hi Power and every other Browning style gun after...)
Good questions, I don't know but I will gladly take pictures of what you need. I'm going to the range with some HP's so I'll let you know how those do. As far as the Afghani pistols, I wouldn't know but I will google Damascus barrels once I get some free time. Or...I can take pictures for you.
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 12, 2009, 09:30:34 AM
Good questions, I don't know but I will gladly take pictures of what you need. I'm going to the range with some HP's so I'll let you know how those do. As far as the Afghani pistols, I wouldn't know but I will google Damascus barrels once I get some free time. Or...I can take pictures for you.
a Damascus barrel is a VERY old way of making a barrel whereby you use a rod and drop strips of metal around it and then pound them together. it is only usable for black powder, low power charges. it was how barrels were made in the 17th century.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 12, 2009, 11:19:02 AM
a Damascus barrel is a VERY old way of making a barrel whereby you use a rod and drop strips of metal around it and then pound them together. it is only usable for black powder, low power charges. it was how barrels were made in the 17th century.
Pm me your email and I will send you detailed pictures of the pistols. The 1911 shoots a hell of a lot better with +p ammo, and the HPs where not a problem. The cheap stuff they sell for target practice, however, is CRAP!
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 12, 2009, 03:53:42 PM
Pm me your email and I will send you detailed pictures of the pistols. The 1911 shoots a hell of a lot better with +p ammo, and the HPs where not a problem. The cheap stuff they sell for target practice, however, is CRAP!
sounds like you need a lighter recoil spring!
Doesn't the spring soften up over time with use? I'll get you those pics tomorrow since I just got back from class.
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 12, 2009, 07:38:27 PM
Doesn't the spring soften up over time with use? I'll get you those pics tomorrow since I just got back from class.
yes it does, but it takes a LONG time. i have a 1943 M1 with an original USGI spring in it... and the decline is very very gradual, inverse hyperbolic i believe
Lots of good spring related info here:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=209254&highlight=pounds (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=209254&highlight=pounds)
Quote from: ducatizzzz on June 11, 2008, 06:25:24 PM
if you want to practice plinking with your 1911, consider the Ruger 22/45. it's a Ruger standard model with a grip and controls very similar to the 1911.
about the same price as a 22 conversion and you get a second iron.
Anybody got one?
Quote from: Speedbag on January 13, 2009, 04:50:23 AM
Anybody got one?
I have one. I don't use it much anymore though, I prefer using the Government Model with a 7" bull barrel. My 22/45 has a 4" barrel, but it is very useful for practicing the 1911 system and getting used to shooting for newbs.
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=54 (http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=54)
I have put probably 20000 rounds thru my Gov Model and you'd never know it.
I can't wait for my new .45 to arrive [evil]
Quote from: cyrus buelton on January 13, 2009, 07:11:06 AM
I can't wait for my new .45 to arrive [evil]
is that the one you ordered with a little pink bow and a Hello Kitty grip?
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 07:16:47 AM
is that the one you ordered with a little pink bow and a Hello Kitty grip?
Yes, how'd you know??
Quote from: cyrus buelton on January 13, 2009, 07:54:01 AM
Yes, how'd you know??
Good lord, what's the world coming to? JDM spec firearms! [puke]
can anyone suggest a good .22lr wheel gun thats cheap, I want a wheel gun for my collection and the .22lr for all day fun at the range! I want to use it for plinking since .45 ammo is kinda crazy.
here the pics ducatizzz:
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0107.jpg)(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0105.jpg)(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0108.jpg%5B/IMG%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0103.jpg)
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 13, 2009, 11:53:16 AM
can anyone suggest a good .22lr wheel gun thats cheap, I want a wheel gun for my collection and the .22lr for all day fun at the range! I want to use it for plinking since .45 ammo is kinda crazy.
Taurus model 94
it's an 9-shot 22LR revolver available in various barrel lengths from 1.75 to 8 inches.
I have the 941 model which is 22 magnum but I wish i'd gotten the 22LR instead.
The only mod I had to do was the trigger spring, which is about 10 lbs too heavy for DA pull.
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=384&category=Revolver
(http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/94B4.jpg)
Is the 22 mag too rare or something like that?
Got my annual catalog and pricing sheet from Wilson Combat. Holy smokes a CQB that I bought for $2K 3 years ago now sells for $2850. :o
so whats the general consensus on the new Colts (1918, 1991)? I've read Kimber is having QC problems, Wilson's are more than I'd like to spend on a 1911 (although for around that price I'm drooling over a Mark 23).
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 13, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
Is the 22 mag too rare or something like that?
nope, just more expensive than the 22LR for plinking.
excellent round for varmint hunting though.
Well, I think I've change my mind again. I want a wheel gun since .38 special rounds are not too bad and they have the added benefit of using .357 for extra kick. Guns are like bikes, you can't stop with one! What am I getting into...
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 13, 2009, 05:35:25 AM
I have one. I don't use it much anymore though, I prefer using the Government Model with a 7" bull barrel. My 22/45 has a 4" barrel, but it is very useful for practicing the 1911 system and getting used to shooting for newbs.
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=54 (http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Pistol&subtype=Rimfire%20Autoloading&famlst=54)
Hmmm...maybe you need to sell it to a likeminded gun nut, that you know on the Left Coast... 8)
Quote from: Sinister on January 13, 2009, 09:51:00 PM
Hmmm...maybe you need to sell it to a likeminded gun nut, that you know on the Left Coast... 8)
i was planning to give it to my nephew when he turns 16. he has a couple of 22 rifles and does silhouette shoots. i think he'll eventually get bigger stuff but right now, it's limited to 22 by mom & dad
Quote from: COWBOY on January 13, 2009, 06:13:45 PM
so whats the general consensus on the new Colts (1918, 1991)? I've read Kimber is having QC problems, Wilson's are more than I'd like to spend on a 1911 (although for around that price I'm drooling over a Mark 23).
check out the Auto Ordnance 1911's. They are very high quality (owned by Kahr) and cheaper than many others.
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 13, 2009, 09:46:32 PM
Well, I think I've change my mind again. I want a wheel gun since .38 special rounds are not too bad and they have the added benefit of using .357 for extra kick. Guns are like bikes, you can't stop with one! What am I getting into...
.38 spl is the second cheapest shooting (22 is cheaper) and 38 and 9mm are a close tie, but 38 is almost always cheaper).
you can't go wrong with a wheelgun. lots of options. keep a hammerless snub in your sock, a 4" barrel with comfort grips in your night stand and maybe a few others around the house. simple mechanism, classic looks, easy to use. point, click, bang. cleaning is a breeze.
Quote from: Sinister on January 13, 2009, 09:51:00 PM
Hmmm...maybe you need to sell it to a likeminded gun nut, that you know on the Left Coast... 8)
Or maybe one more in the middle. Shipping's cheaper. ;)
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 14, 2009, 04:14:26 AM
i was planning to give it to my nephew when he turns 16. he has a couple of 22 rifles and does silhouette shoots. i think he'll eventually get bigger stuff but right now, it's limited to 22 by mom & dad
Frankly, I like that idea even better. [thumbsup] Way to pass it on, 'Tizz.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 14, 2009, 04:20:23 AM
you can't go wrong with a wheelgun. lots of options. keep a hammerless snub in your sock, a 4" barrel with comfort grips in your night stand and maybe a few others around the house. simple mechanism, classic looks, easy to use. point, click, bang. cleaning is a breeze.
The most fun I'm having with any gun currently in the house is with a cool old Ruger Single-Six in .22 Mag. There's something really intoxicating about a single-action, the sound & feel of cocking the hammer, and the challenge of trying to put a series of (relatively) rapid shots on target while repositioning your thumb every shot. The beautiful old antler grips and classic good looks of the gun don't hurt the experience any, either.
Quote from: triangleforge on January 14, 2009, 09:12:55 AM
The most fun I'm having with any gun currently in the house is with a cool old Ruger Single-Six in .22 Mag. There's something really intoxicating about a single-action, the sound & feel of cocking the hammer, and the challenge of trying to put a series of (relatively) rapid shots on target while repositioning your thumb every shot. The beautiful old antler grips and classic good looks of the gun don't hurt the experience any, either.
I hear you. My 'gotta-have-for-no-other-reason-than-its-pretty' gun is the Ruger Vaquero...cowboy action at its finest.
Quote from: Sinister on January 14, 2009, 09:14:45 AM
I hear you. My 'gotta-have-for-no-other-reason-than-its-pretty' gun is the Ruger Vaquero...cowboy action at its finest.
yeah. me too. my "gotta have it ...etc" is a select fire MAC-10.. someday i'll have enough cash to buy the matching Sionics suppressor. somedays the calm, cock, aim, fire doesn't work for me and i just need to hose down the range with lead.
there is something about firing at 1000 rds/minute and you can hear the bolt over the muzzle...
Do you aspire to be like Eazy-E?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on January 14, 2009, 10:48:23 AM
Do you aspire to be like Eazy-E?
Shit. Eazy-E aspires to be like Ducatizzz, mutha-make the beast with two backsah!!!
Just got another picture of my 1911 with tac light. The thing looks the part with the light, plus it makes sweeping the house in the middle of the night a whole lot better!
A
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0112.jpg)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on January 14, 2009, 10:48:23 AM
Do you aspire to be like Eazy-E?
QuoteIn March 1995, Eazy-E checked himself into Cedars Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles with what he believed at the time was chronic asthma. Following comprehensive tests, it was discovered that he was suffering from AIDS, and his condition deteriorated rapidly.[7] During the week of March 20, already having made amends with Dr. Dre and Ice Cube, Eazy-E drafted what would be his last message to his fans.[3][8] On March 26, 1995, ten days after being admitted into the hospital, Eazy-E died at the age of 31.[2] He was buried at Rose Hills Memorial Park in Whittier, California.[9]
Helllllllll no.
Quote from: Sinister on January 14, 2009, 11:00:51 AM
Shit. Eazy-E aspires to be like Ducatizzz, mutha-make the beast with two backsah!!!
Eazy-E aspires to be ALIVE rofl
Quote from: triangleforge on January 14, 2009, 09:12:55 AM
There's something really intoxicating about a single-action, the sound & feel of cocking the hammer, and the challenge of trying to put a series of (relatively) rapid shots on target while repositioning your thumb every shot. .
+1
I've got an H&R .22LR revolver that is a favorite for the same reasons. Simplicity defined, and dirt cheap to fire all day. :)
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 14, 2009, 11:23:32 AM
Just got another picture of my 1911 with tac light. The thing looks the part with the light, plus it makes sweeping the house in the middle of the night a whole lot better!
A
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/bulldogs2k_pics/DSCN0112.jpg)
Nice. Here is a picture of my Kimber with TLR-1 installed. Just put the light on yesterday and am about to go down to the range to see how the weight affects target acquisition.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/Kimber1.jpg)
Drkwng:
I'm about to do the same this weekend. I need to get used to the added weight, plus it looks cool!
Quote from: bulldogs2k on January 15, 2009, 05:22:38 PM
Ducatizzz:
I'm about to do the same this weekend. I need to get used to the added weight, plus it looks cool!
You have a Mac-10? They are the coolest piece of shit ever made!
Ducatizzz: My bad, I meant my last message for drkwng! Need to edit that.
rofl
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 15, 2009, 05:45:29 PM
You have a Mac-10? They are the coolest piece of shit ever made!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV2Iqa_7uaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV2Iqa_7uaw)
Quote from: Sinister on January 15, 2009, 06:44:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV2Iqa_7uaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV2Iqa_7uaw)
cool but not a sionics suppressor..
. . . made in Argentina.
Anyone have any experience with Argentine made 1911's?
My understanding is that the Argentine govt got the dies from Colt and started making them on their own and that Colt made 1911 (and aftermarket) parts interchange.
What's a ballpark value on a nice condition used piece?
My friends dad is a huge gun nut and has given most of what he had to his kids. What's left includes some Argentine made 1911's. Apparently he held back when he got these and only bought "6 or 8" of them [laugh].
He's looking to sell.
I did a little research on the net and got a huge range of value from $200 to $800 (of course condition would affect the price)
I don't own a hand gun but have plenty of bench time with various rifles. I don't need one, but you know. . .
if the price is right I would cause I could ;D
Thoughts?
depends on condition and finish. If they are blued (orginal finish) and don't have import marks, they are worth towards the high end of the scale. Otherwise, a nice condition parkerised one is worth ~$3-400 if the finish is in decent shape. I have 2 of them, they are in great condition and are extremely well made, on par with pre-ww2 colts. got pics?
Haven't seen em yet. Investigating now to decide if I will pursue one of these.
Found a good vid on youtube, good info here.
Ballester Molina Colt 1911 45acp Clone Pistol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Maui_RmlA#normal)
Quote from: cduarte on December 12, 2009, 06:55:15 AM
depends on condition and finish. If they are blued (orginal finish) and don't have import marks, <snip?>
What are import marks?
ATF now requires marks showing importers name, caliber and (now) a new serial number issued by the importer.
with the gun control act of 1968, all firearms imported into this country were required to be marked with the company that imported them. Prior to this, this was not required and firearms without import marks command a premium.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 12, 2009, 07:43:26 AM
ATF now requires marks showing importers name, caliber and (now) a new serial number issued by the importer.
since when do they require a new serial?
Anyone try a new Colt yet? I've been pretty happy with what I have so I haven't looked at much since I put my AR together. Recently I went looking and saw that Colt was making Deltas again. I like my Razorback but I really want a Delta Elite. 10mm is the way to go.
here's my favorite 1911. It's a Colt National Match made in 1957. It's extremely accurate, and I paid $500 for it.
(http://home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/nm3.jpg)
Quote from: cduarte on December 12, 2009, 07:44:52 AM
since when do they require a new serial?
it's been about 4-5 years that the new depth/size and importation rules were effected. i will try to find a link. the long and short is that around 2002, ATF changed the rules so all firearms had to have serial numbers prominently placed on the receiver and no less than 0.003" deep and 1/16" tall. plenty of milsurp guns have far smaller serial numbers (such as ALL the russian and most european milsurp rifles and pistols, plus many of the com-bloc stuff has cyrillic character original serials...). thus, ATF ruled that where there are non-Roman characters or the original numbers are not 0.003" deep and/or 1/16" tall, the importer has to issue a new unique number composed of roman letter and numbers only.
that's why all of those Century/CAI rifles have that big-ass digital serial # on them now.
**edit
ok found it..
27 CFR @478.92, went into effect Jan 30, 2002. Longer than I remembered
http://www.stiguns.com/USPress/Gun&Ammo/Comp1911/Comp1911-05p1.html (http://www.stiguns.com/USPress/Gun&Ammo/Comp1911/Comp1911-05p1.html)
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 12, 2009, 07:51:36 PM
http://www.stiguns.com/USPress/Gun&Ammo/Comp1911/Comp1911-05p1.html (http://www.stiguns.com/USPress/Gun&Ammo/Comp1911/Comp1911-05p1.html)
[bow_down]
I'll stick with my Wilson Combat.
and why do all these high end gun makers (Wilson inc) only send you one magazine with your $2,000 gun?
Quote from: hbliam on December 12, 2009, 11:15:03 PM
I'll stick with my Wilson Combat.
and why do all these high end gun makers (Wilson inc) only send you one magazine with your $2,000 gun?
You'll have to ask them that question.
The Wilson Combat is a nice gun, but it ain't no STI. ;)
Because they want you to buy another one from them.
John Masen has good mags if you need them.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 13, 2009, 04:04:53 AM
Because they want you to buy another one from them.
John Masen has good mags if you need them.
It was a rhetorical question... :)
and I have about 15 WC Mags.
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 12, 2009, 11:20:16 PM
The Wilson Combat is a nice gun, but it ain't no STI. ;)
Damn right it's not. ;) I wanted a 1911. Not a 2011 or a target shooter.
Quote from: hbliam on December 13, 2009, 08:58:26 AM
Damn right it's not. ;) I wanted a 1911. Not a 2011 or a target shooter.
Yeah, You wouldn't want to try a better version of a product.
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 13, 2009, 12:25:47 PM
Yeah, You wouldn't want to try a better version of a product.
Subjective.
Quote from: hbliam on December 13, 2009, 08:58:26 AM
Damn right it's not. ;) I wanted a 1911. Not a 2011 or a target shooter.
if you wanted a 1911, why didn't you get a colt?
Quote from: cduarte on December 13, 2009, 03:45:20 PM
if you wanted a 1911, why didn't you get a colt?
touche ;)
Quote from: cduarte on December 13, 2009, 03:45:20 PM
if you wanted a 1911, why didn't you get a colt?
well, or a Remington-Rand, or Springfield, or Ithaca or a Union Switch, etc..
I think Remington-Rand made 3 times as many wartime 1911s than Colt did.
I picked up a Norinco 1911 ages ago, they are extremely popular with the race gun competitions, and this one is a near exact copy of the US version -- hand finished just like the originals.. not as nice, but still an interesting take.
Actually, the nicest 1911 I have is made by PAC from Phillipines. It was an impulse purchase but the finish is top notch. I had the sear and safety reworked because they were iffy (hammer would drop to half cock when cocked and safety on).. now it works perfectly and it is a perfect carry. I think I dropped $300 on it, new.. That was about 10 years ago tho.
I found out a little more about the Argentine made 1911 my friends dad has f/s
I was thinking it was a Ballester Molina which really only shares the mags and (I think) the barrel with the 1911. It also lacks the grip safety.
This gun has the grip safety and is identical with the colt made 1911. It's apparently in good shape with rose wood grips and has had a trigger job.
Anything I should look for when I go look at it? Keep in mind this is my first pistol. He wants $400 for it.
Quote from: Monsterlover on December 14, 2009, 04:46:25 AM
I found out a little more about the Argentine made 1911 my friends dad has f/s
I was thinking it was a Ballester Molina which really only shares the mags and (I think) the barrel with the 1911. It also lacks the grip safety.
This gun has the grip safety and is identical with the colt made 1911. It's apparently in good shape with rose wood grips and has had a trigger job.
Anything I should look for when I go look at it? Keep in mind this is my first pistol. He wants $400 for it.
that's a sistema, they are very nice. Buy it and post pics.
Well this is reloading info for the 1911.
My buddy got me a set of mould blocks and dies for the 45 for Christmas.
So i cast around a hundred bullets last friday. 250 grain RN microgroove.
We loaded up half the cases with 4.3 grains of Titegroup and a CCI large pistol primer.
the other half we boosted the powder charge to 4.5 grains.
Both loads feed and cycle reliably. Glad to finally be able to shoot my two 1911's
for about 4 cents a round.
The only issue is to shoot lead you need to remove any copper fouling prior to shooting lead.
I have no leading issues at all. I load my wifes 44 mag the same method at about 6-7 cents per round.
higher cost due to more powder in the case of course.
Quote from: VisceralReaction on December 14, 2009, 01:19:58 PM
Well this is reloading info for the 1911.
My buddy got me a set of mould blocks and dies for the 45 for Christmas.
So i cast around a hundred bullets last friday. 250 grain RN microgroove.
We loaded up half the cases with 4.3 grains of Titegroup and a CCI large pistol primer.
the other half we boosted the powder charge to 4.5 grains.
Both loads feed and cycle reliably. Glad to finally be able to shoot my two 1911's
for about 4 cents a round.
The only issue is to shoot lead you need to remove any copper fouling prior to shooting lead.
I have no leading issues at all. I load my wifes 44 mag the same method at about 6-7 cents per round.
higher cost due to more powder in the case of course.
So, What's your issue?
Quote from: cduarte on December 14, 2009, 07:33:06 AM
that's a sistema, they are very nice. Buy it and post pics.
So I went and checked these out last night. They're pretty cool, been reading up on the history this morning.
This gun was Army issue and looks to me to be in decent shape. Some wear marks but it seems tight.
The owner has 4 of these Sistema's and he showed me how to break one down on the bench which let me look at all the guts. They all seemed to be in good shape as well.
I'm wavering on the $400 price. On one hand this is a nice little piece and the frame, barrel and slide all numbers match. On the other I'm finding pricing on line more towards the $300 price point.
Im gonna stop at the local gun shop and talk to those guys and see what they think, as well as check out other makes to be sure the 1911 fits me.
Are there any other pistols in the $300-$400 range you guys think I should also look at?
Quote from: Monsterlover on December 15, 2009, 04:29:06 AM
Are there any other pistols in the $300-$400 range you guys think I should also look at?
1911 style or just pistols in general?
That's going pretty cheap on a pistol these days. Look on gunbroker.com to see what other 1911 style guns go for, 500-600 is the low range. There is a decent model made by SAM of Phillipines (sometimes called PAC) which Century is selling that is going for around $450, and I think that's the cheapest one on the market. I have one and it is very good -- it's not a tack driver, but it goes bang every time. Just have a smith look at it to be sure, mine had a defective part, but once replaced, it has functioned flawlessly.
here is one:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=149568709 (http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=149568709)
SAM is the #1 government arms maker for the military in Phillipines.
Charles Daly used to resell the SAM 1911s years ago, and they have very good reputations. When they stopped selling them, no one picked them up for a long while until recently. Century Arms (CAI) has a spotty reputation for guns they make, but they don't touch this one, they just roll mark it with their name and put it back in the box.
the sistemas were made on colt tooling by colt trained workers and are the same quality as pre-ww2 colts for a fraction of the price. You will not get a better pistol in that price range. Other than those, the only ones I can personally recommend are the norincos, which are well made from extremely high quality steel. All things considered though, I'd go for the sistema as they are a nice piece of history as well.
Quote from: cduarte on December 15, 2009, 05:38:04 AM
the sistemas were made on colt tooling by colt trained workers and are the same quality as pre-ww2 colts for a fraction of the price. You will not get a better pistol in that price range. Other than those, the only ones I can personally recommend are the norincos, which are well made from extremely high quality steel. All things considered though, I'd go for the sistema as they are a nice piece of history as well.
i have a NIB norinco, whatcha offer me for it? i took it out only to clean off the pigfat and coated it with eezox, inside and out..
Quote from: ducatiz on December 15, 2009, 04:43:43 AM
1911 style or just pistols in general?
Pistols in general (semi-auto)
Quote from: cduarte on December 15, 2009, 05:38:04 AM
the sistemas were made on colt tooling by colt trained workers and are the same quality as pre-ww2 colts for a fraction of the price. You will not get a better pistol in that price range. Other than those, the only ones I can personally recommend are the norincos, which are well made from extremely high quality steel. All things considered though, I'd go for the sistema as they are a nice piece of history as well.
I know what you mean. The particular sistema i picked out had a 75xxx series number which puts it in the late 50's for manufacture.
Kinda cool
Quote from: ducatiz on December 15, 2009, 05:45:46 AM
i have a NIB norinco, whatcha offer me for it? i took it out only to clean off the pigfat and coated it with eezox, inside and out..
$200...
Quote from: cduarte on December 15, 2009, 08:25:40 AM
$200...
rofl.. they sell for around $500 used.. of course, if you can get ATF approval to import one, you can order a brand new one from Marstar in Canada for like $100..
Quote from: ducatiz on December 15, 2009, 09:21:18 AM
rofl.. they sell for around $500 used.. of course, if you can get ATF approval to import one, you can order a brand new one from Marstar in Canada for like $100..
I know, I already have too many 1911s as it is, don't really need another.
What's the ticket for inexpensive .45 ammo? $22 for a box of 50 seems to be about the average.
Is this one of those things that will snowball and I'll end up with my own reloading equipment?
That being said, does the quality of the reloading setup affect the quality of the reload?
Damn. The snowball just got bigger...
reloading is another hobby unto itself. While I don't have one, you can get a lee progressive which will work quite well for loading .45 and you'll be able to load for a fraction of what commercial ammo costs.
Welp,
I bought it :D
I stopped back last night and put 14 rounds through it Jim's (guns owner) basement (he has a nifty bullet trap) I need practice to be more accurate, but the consistency is there.
Gonna get it registered to me either today or monday.
Heading to a gun show now because I'm definitely into the reloading thing. Want to see if I can score any deals.
I talked with Jim for about 4 hours last night about reloading. He told me he's never bought factory loads in his life (and he's 80) He has a bunch of spare reloading presses and other things so he's going to set me up and show me the ropes.
I'll need to get a set of .45 dies and a powder measurer but the rest he has.
Will post pics once I get it home [thumbsup]
I highly recommend a Dillon progressive press. They are awesome. If you have the coin, get a full monty setup with all the add ons. you can pump out literally dozens of rounds in a minute..
Quote from: ducatiz on December 19, 2009, 08:12:16 AM
I highly recommend a Dillon progressive press. They are awesome. If you have the coin, get a full monty setup with all the add ons. you can pump out literally dozens of rounds in a minute..
agreed, I currently have one dillon 650, used to have 2. They are great.
And Dillon has a no BS warranty. You break it, they send a new part, no BS, no questions asked. :)
They are great presses but they're out of my price range atm.
I expect to score a single stage press and everything else (scale etc) for less than the cost of the dillon.
I'm more worried about quality at this point than speed. If I really like it and get into it heavy I'll get the Dillon.
where are the pics? [bacon]
No gun yet to take pics of.
We couldn't get together today to transfer it.
Shooting for monday.
Wow, bad pun for this thread [laugh]
Ok, I have pics :D
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Sistema%201911/1911001.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Sistema%201911/1911002.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Sistema%201911/1911004.jpg)
Ejercito Argentino = Army issue. The 32251 number puts it's manufacture sometime in 1943 I believe.
These are the targets I fired at (first time shooting any pistol) This was probably at like 20' or so. He has a bullet trap in his basement and I had to move up closer because when I stood up heating ducts and joists would block most of my view of the target [laugh]
Here's the first 7 rounds.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Sistema%201911/1911005.jpg)
Here's where I altered how hard I held on for each shot. They got progressively lower and lower.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/Sistema%201911/1911006.jpg)
I picked up a single stage reloader and everything else I need to load except dies (and brass, primers and bullets) for $150
He's also going to show me how it all works. I like the guy, he's fun to hang around and damned if he doesn't know a lot about just about everything shooting/reloading related.
:D
very nice, you did extremely well. That's one of the sistema's imported by JL Denter (they make the PTR-91) about 10 years ago. One thing you can do to check on a 1911 is to push down on the barrel hood and see how much it moves. If it's not tight, that can reduce accuracy. This can easily be corrected by replacing the barrel link with a longer one from brownells or your local gunsmith.
I'm new to this. . .
where's the barrel hood?
the barrel hood is the part visible through the ejection port on the slide. Put your thumb where the serial number is stamped and push down.
Gotcha.
Doesn't move at all.
that's a good thing, shoot it and enjoy [bacon]
[bacon] :D
Im trying to join gunbroker but their server is sucking at the moment and keeps error-ing out.
They have some decent deals on once fired brass. ..
try missouri bullets for your projectiles. They are inexpensive and work very well. I like a 200gr semi wadcutter with 3.8gr of hodgdon clays. It's a nice soft load, very accurate and clean.
http://www.missouribullet.com/ (http://www.missouribullet.com/)
for powder and primers, if you're going to buy in bulk, Powder Valley generally has the best deals on primers. I prefer winchester primers personally. http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/)
Thanks for the links, I'll check em out.
How about brass? I see a lot of once fired, but to me that means fired at least once.
Everyone either seems to be out of stock, or they're charging out the ass.
.45acp brass is indefinitely reloadable, you'll lose them before you wear them out. Scrounge at the range or buy some online. This is a good deal on .45acp brass. http://www.seminolebrassandbullet.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=8 (http://www.seminolebrassandbullet.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=8)
^
Smokin deal!
I just ordered 1000 of em :D
I'll pickup some of those SWC's too
Thanks! You made my day!
You can cut down 308 brass too. Same cartridge base dims
For pistol I have a Lyman Turrent that's almost as good as a progressive.
Not as fast but a hellllll of alot cheaper and it's sweet.
I can crank out the rounds with it. For dies I can't go wrong with Lee.
Not near as spendy as others but the work great, especially with a seperate
crimp die.
For all my rifle stuff I use an RCBS single stage.
I tend to load alot more critically with my rifle cartridges, where a 10th of a grain
matters so much more
Quote from: VisceralReaction on December 22, 2009, 09:10:21 AM
I tend to load alot more critically with my rifle cartridges, where a 10th of a grain
matters so much more
are you poking grapes at 500m in a wind tunnel?
Quote from: ducatiz on December 22, 2009, 09:11:24 AM
are you poking grapes at 500m in a wind tunnel?
Pretty much. A sillouette target at 400m is about the size of a 50cent piece.
With open sights you need everything you can get to shoot "expert"
open sights, very good stuff. i never had to do that (and it was not recommended), the targets i shot tended to shoot back...
Quote from: ducatiz on December 22, 2009, 09:37:19 AM
open sights, very good stuff. i never had to do that (and it was not recommended), the targets i shot tended to shoot back...
So why wasn't it recommended? It just refines your shooting ability.
Shooting expert at 400m with open sights makes shooting with a scope that much easier :)
Quote from: VisceralReaction on December 22, 2009, 10:14:03 AM
So why wasn't it recommended? It just refines your shooting ability.
Shooting expert at 400m with open sights makes shooting with a scope that much easier :)
chances of miss, usually targeting at >500m, hostiles usually had friends with mortars. i have a perforated eardrum from mortar
Yeah i can understand that for certain. Problem is for me the cost of having two rifles.
One set up with a good scope for distance and one with open sights for close work.
I should have bought two GI M1A barreled receivers years ago when they were cheap :(
No foresite on my part
Quote from: VisceralReaction on December 22, 2009, 10:56:46 AM
Yeah i can understand that for certain. Problem is for me the cost of having two rifles.
One set up with a good scope for distance and one with open sights for close work.
I should have bought two GI M1A barreled receivers years ago when they were cheap :(
No foresite on my part
I still have a USGI parts kit I picked up for $450 -- all 60 era parts still in wrap.. Years ago Sarco had barreled receivers with a lug for about $350, so I grabbed two, one I built into an XM21 style package and the other is sitting with the parts kit. I dunno, might sell the lot. A guy named Mark Cefaly put those kits together -- everything except stock, barrel and receiver.
HAHAH are you thinking foreskin? :P
Quote from: VisceralReaction on December 22, 2009, 11:17:17 AM
HAHAH are you thinking foreskin? :P
Well, I was going for more of a "Fore sight/rear sight vs. scope" kind of thing, but, um, thank you for putting that in my head? ;D
Nothing like leaving it to me to cross the line ;D
what's the best pricing seen on Sellier & Belloit .45 acp you've seen?
last time I purchased...it was just over $10 a box and I bought 4000 rounds...I think I have about 200 left and am starting to put my peepers out for ammo...
Did you keep the brass?
Quote from: rgramjet on December 23, 2009, 12:02:00 PM
Did you keep the brass?
I wish I had for barder purposes....no, like a dumbass, I gave my brass to a friend who's backyard I had been shooting in up in Fredneck....and I actually haven't been shooting in well over a year...and been wanting to take Dolci to the range to teach her to shoot....but I have to figure out where I'm gonna take her (probably On-Target up near Fort Meade) and what ammo I'm going to shoot, or where I'm going to buy it...I got spoiled by the clean S&B ammo I had been using.
Well, I paid up for all the reloading equipment.
I got carbide dies online along with 500 SWC lead 200gr bullets, and 1000 pieces of brass on the way.
Gonna pickup some primers and a pound of powder today.
The guy that sold me the gun also gave me the original grips for it as well as 2 sets of rubber grips, a set of wood grips with a fat thumb shelf on the left one and 100 rounds of home loads!
I think I got a pretty good deal :D
I do too...
no, you got a great deal.
Well, I took the thing to the range yesterday and put 240 rounds through it :D
I joined a local club that has an indoor range so I can shoot and not freeze my ass of this time of year.
On the whole, I did ok. I'd say 5-10% of my shots were good ones.
I shoot consistent groups, they're just too high.
I need more time with it to practice.
I shot 50 rounds given to me by the guns previous owner, 50 that I hand loaded with him, and 140 that I hand loaded on my own here at home.
They all felt the same [thumbsup]
No fail to fires, but I did experience a few fail to feeds.
Using the LSWC sometimes the nose of the bullet would jam on the top edge of the chamber.
Every time I'd stop and clear it, reload the round in the mag and it would fire just fine.
Go figure.
Lots of fun though :D
polish your feedramp, it will then feed semi wadcutters just fine.
Previous owner did the work to get it to feed SWC
Everything I've read about feed failures points to an issue with the magazine.
Either a worn out spring or deformation/damage to the lips that hold the rounds in.
Thoughts?
Totally agree about magazine issues.
I use Tripp Cobra Mags or Checkmate. Love 'em both. Apparently the feed lips and the bump make a big deal.
I do NOT like my wilson or mccormick magazines; the kimber factory mag is fine, but its got tripp internals now.
Huh.
I've had McCormic mags highly recommended to me.
Is this one of those deals where people find something that works and then stick with it for life?
I mostly use ww2 vintage USGI 1911 mags, they work fine with 200gr semiwadcutters.
Where do you get those?
well, i bought a few of each and picked the ones that fed the most reliably. i didn't find the 8rd mags crammed into the same size mag tube to work all that well. The Tripps and Checkmates extend below a little bit, and they work great. The backside of the tripps are seamless. Its amazing.
Here's a little east meets west with an E.G. Makarov and a Kimber CDP Pro:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_4iYlZ1m8UEM/SbwGRBD1UQI/AAAAAAAAC5c/0sA_74DoUd8/s800/IMG_1441.JPG)
The mag doesn't actually stick that far out now that I have a superior mag catch from EGW, which positions the mag a smidge higher.
Quote from: Monsterlover on January 18, 2010, 04:24:34 PM
Where do you get those?
gunshows, the best way to identify them is that they have a letter stamped on top of the mag base where it sticks out.
check out this link...
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/mag_faq.htm (http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/mag_faq.htm)
Good link, thanks :)
I will be the naysayer on the "mag problems are most feed issues" truism.
I have USGI mags, aftermarket (like John Masens) and a bunch of cheapo Norincos.
The Norincos seem to work the best, and the USGI ones second.
My feeling is that they are made the same USGI were -- machine pressed, hand finished and then tested by "Rosie the Riveter" in a bunch of model frames for function.
The reason USGI ones work so well is they've been weeded out - the bad ones long gone.
the 1911 was made to shoot ball ammo only. there is no feed ramp to speak of, not at least from a modern perspective. If your pistol has one, it's an afterthought unless they've really redesigned the entire barrel and link.
everyone with feed problems, try some plain old ball rounds. i bet your feed/eject problems disappear.
Anybody got any FHE with the Ballester Molina .45s? A buddy has one to sell.
(Yeah, not technically a 1911, but....)
as far as feed problems, the only time I had one was with a mag that had a worn out spring( because I have 2 mags that I left generally loaded for home defense and would unload the Black Talon's I had in em and go shoot regular jacketed ammo)...otherwise I use the Shooting Star mags and have had no problem with feeds...so I agree with ducatiz about checking your ammo generally speaking.
i agree with ball ammo and would like to add in that all a person really needs for purposes of self defense is ball ammo, not the crazy, snake-oil new-fangled personal defense rounds. I think a lot of hype there ignores the fact that even ball ammo that's nearly a half-inch around is going to make a big hole. Compared with a hollow point of a smaller caliber, its close.
Quote from: a m on April 06, 2010, 04:47:40 AM
i agree with ball ammo and would like to add in that all a person really needs for purposes of self defense is ball ammo, not the crazy, snake-oil new-fangled personal defense rounds. I think a lot of hype there ignores the fact that even ball ammo that's nearly a half-inch around is going to make a big hole. Compared with a hollow point of a smaller caliber, its close.
what? you don't like the hollow points that you fill with mercury and then wax seal?...J/K!!!
generally I agree as far as regular jacketed ammo should make enough damage to a person to make the point...just ask the Moro Philippine Army....there are always special cases and circumstances for which I would want to be caught with my pants down unprepared.
Quote from: zooom on April 06, 2010, 05:07:04 AM
there are always special cases and circumstances for which I would want to be caught with my pants down unprepared.
Just picking a nit -- I think you meant "wouldn't," but it's not my place to judge....
;D
My feed problems are gone.
The issue was the mag.
I borrowed a couple wilson combats from a friend of mine and they fed SWC's just fine all night. My mag had a fail to feed about every time i used it.
I can't switch to hardball, at least during the winter, because i can't shoot those in the indoor range (lead only and under 850fps)
hardball? what is hardball?
"Ball" ammo means generic FMJ rounds.
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 06, 2010, 06:53:06 AMI can't switch to hardball, at least during the winter, because i can't shoot those in the indoor range (lead only and under 850fps)
lead only? i've heard of ranges banning lead only rounds (FMJ ok, but not plain (unjacketed) LRN -- lead round nose)
Hardball is ball ammo. Like 5 of the books I got from the library on 1911's referred to FMJ as hardball.
<shrug>
Apparently the plate in their bullet trap won't stop a jacketed round.
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 06, 2010, 07:28:46 AM
Hardball is ball ammo. Like 5 of the books I got from the library on 1911's referred to FMJ as hardball.
<shrug>
Apparently the plate in their bullet trap won't stop a jacketed round.
i would be suspicious of those books. ball ammo is fmj. pick up one of those WW2 spam cans of .45ACP and it says "CAL .45 BALL" on it.. all FMJ corrosive rounds:
(http://www.pdmall.com/1/1/2/5245.jpg)
rifle ammo too:
(https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3664/3439141551_f8288e1134.jpg)
"hardball" is just a slang term as far as I can find anything thru google just now.
unjacketed lead rounds are called LRN or lead, round nose.
but again, i am surprised they would ban fmj rounds. pistol FMJ won't pierce most NRA-spec backstops for indoor ranges (most = all) and there is less problem with lead contamination. moreover, LRN is not recommended for any barrel with polygonal rifling, such as the (absurdly common) Glock and the HK USP family of pistols (I think all of HK's are now polygonal).. A rule like that would mean no one can use a Glock with a factory barrel at that range!
Quote from: triangleforge on April 06, 2010, 06:35:57 AM
Just picking a nit -- I think you meant "wouldn't," but it's not my place to judge....
;D
yes...thank you for the correction....
tiz, you're right.
the glock guys stay out. . .
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 06, 2010, 09:56:49 AM
tiz, you're right.
the glock guys stay out. . .
there are plenty of aftermarket barrels for Glocks with button rifling. I have one, I think I got it from LoneWolf or Glockmeister. It's stainless with the fun muzzle threads. Seems to shed heat faster. I've used LRN with it, much to the annoyance of bystanders who don't know those barrels are available...
im kind of a newb at this, but why would they be annoyed?
Or they think you're abusing a stock barrel?
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 06, 2010, 10:06:12 AM
im kind of a newb at this, but why would they be annoyed?
Or they think you're abusing a stock barrel?
Many gun owners (including myself) tend towards being pedantic. Some even knowitalls. I am still learning stuff every day, so I try to keep an open mind, even after growing up shooting and serving abroad.
So yes abusing a stock barrel and maybe about to cause a "kaboom" in a pistol known for such things.
the only kaboom i've ever had was in a POS called an AP-9. i was trying it out at a range for a vanity purchase. the owner gave me some Spanish milsurp 9mm and >boom!< that was the end of that POS.
nice
dead barrel after that?
i had a squib last time out and im thankful only the front half of the bullet made it into the rifling. It was still shallow enough to prevent another round from chambering up.
I caught it because it jammed, and when I cleared it spent brass fell out (never had that before.)
So that triggered a red flag and I took a closer look.
I must have not charged that one somehow when I loaded.
Which is odd, because I have (or had) pretty thorough quality control.
I think alot of the guys that would be crying about abuse of a stock barrel either bought the piece as an investment or hate cleaning the carbon from cruddy ammo!
i don't know, all i've ever shot through my 1911 is swc leads, and that barrel looks the same after 10 shots as 250.
bullseye powder if it matters.
when I say cruddy ammo...I mean like Speer Lawman as a rough crude example...that crap is just plain dirty.
Is it more the powder or the quality of lead?
Or both that make dirty ammo?
i'm for banning the polygamous barrels. one barrel and one gun, that's how Dad did it, that's how America does it...and its worked out pretty well so far.
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 06, 2010, 10:48:51 AM
nice
dead barrel after that?
i had a squib last time out and im thankful only the front half of the bullet made it into the rifling. It was still shallow enough to prevent another round from chambering up.
I caught it because it jammed, and when I cleared it spent brass fell out (never had that before.)
So that triggered a red flag and I took a closer look.
I must have not charged that one somehow when I loaded.
Which is odd, because I have (or had) pretty thorough quality control.
polygonal barrels will foul super-fast from lead, which over time can increase barrel pressures. cleaning lead out is a pregnant dog, but of course it's doable.
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 06, 2010, 12:04:29 PM
Is it more the powder or the quality of lead?
Or both that make dirty ammo?
both...
Quote from: ducatiz on April 06, 2010, 12:11:56 PM
polygonal barrels will foul super-fast from lead, which over time can increase barrel pressures. cleaning lead out is a pregnant dog, but of course it's doable.
won't a bore cleaning solvent take care of that?
Anybody got any FHE with the Ballester-Molina .45s?
What's a good price? A co-worker has a nice one for sale.
Quote from: Speedbag on April 07, 2010, 03:32:32 AM
Anybody got any FHE with the Ballester-Molina .45s?
What's a good price? A co-worker has a nice one for sale.
dood...
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18381.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18381.0)
Quote from: ducpainter on April 07, 2010, 03:33:15 AM
dood...
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18381.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18381.0)
;D
Yeah, sorry, I know, looking for a fast answer. ;D
I posted in the 1911 thread asking the same question but was quickly swallowed up by volleys about magazines.
Quote from: Speedbag on April 07, 2010, 03:52:52 AM
Yeah, sorry, I know, looking for a fast answer. ;D
I posted in the 1911 thread asking the same question but was quickly swallowed up by volleys about magazines.
why...
those inconsiderate bastids.
Hard to get any respect around here.
How much is this coworker asking for it?
These guns are Argentine made 1911's with some changes to avoid paying royalties to Colt.
The mags are the same as a 1911, and I think the barrel's are also the same. The mainspring housing is not removable, all the guts come out the top I think.
As I recall, I don't think they're worth as much as an argentine made 1911 (which all the books I've read say to consider these guns equal to a colt 1911) I valued my Sistema 1911 (argentine made) at $400 in poor condition.
I thought I did well because that's what I paid and I think my gun is easily in fair condition. Nice ones are up in the $600-$650 range.
If this gun is in fair shape, used but not abused I'd guess a decent price would be about $400.
Make sure he lets you test fire it first.
Some good info here as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballester-Molina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballester-Molina)
http://www.m1911.org/technic9.htm (http://www.m1911.org/technic9.htm)
Quote from: ducpainter on April 06, 2010, 06:49:40 PM
won't a bore cleaning solvent take care of that?
no. significant lead fouling is not removed with most regular solvents like hoppe's #9 or similar. hoppe's will remove light fouling though.
you have to use a specific lead remover. and then you have the toxic handling on top of it -- solublized lead. there is a brand of patches that remove lead and hold it to the patch, i forgot the name offhand. cut a piece off and shove it down the barrel, patch comes out blue-black. but it depends on how much.
lead rounds thru a polygonal barrel isn't just an issue of fouling, the lead will actually shear off in the barrel. i don't understand the exact reasons, but every maker of polygonal barrels absolutely forbids it on safety grounds.
He's looking for $300.
Price is right if it doesn't look like it's been buried for the last 50 years.
That's the plan!
Could use new grips, but has been re-blued.
Just didn't know what they were worth, couldn't find them in Blue Books...
Quote from: ducatiz on April 07, 2010, 04:57:43 AM
no. significant lead fouling is not removed with most regular solvents like hoppe's #9 or similar. hoppe's will remove light fouling though.
<snip>
I wasn't thinking Hoppes....
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=838837 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=838837)
Quote from: ducpainter on April 07, 2010, 04:30:18 PM
I wasn't thinking Hoppes....
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=838837 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=838837)
use the "Cowboy Blend" version of X-treme. That's my point, the standard bore solvents don't cut lead. Hoppe's has a special lead version as does Montana X-Treme.
Quote from: ducatiz on April 07, 2010, 04:35:53 PM
use the "Cowboy Blend" version of X-treme. That's my point, the standard bore solvents don't cut lead. Hoppe's has a special lead version as does Montana X-Treme.
Dunno...
It says
all fouling in the description.
Maybe they don't mean it. ???
i dunno either way, but I enjoy cleaning guns, because its available to do when there's no money for ammo, and the solvents smell good. Real good.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 07, 2010, 04:38:14 PM
Dunno...
It says all fouling in the description.
Maybe they don't mean it. ???
they lie.
no really. most rounds fired are jacketed, so the only fouling you have to worry about is copper and powder. you get a little lead but not enough to worry about short term.
only cranks who fire LRN or wadcutters need to worry about lead fouling.
lead actually lubricates the barrel a little. you don't need to have a 100% lead free barrel. too much is bad tho.
Quote from: a m on April 07, 2010, 04:40:41 PM
i dunno either way, but I enjoy cleaning guns, because its available to do when there's no money for ammo, and the solvents smell good. Real good.
yeah, i was really sad when they came out with water soluble bore cleaners...
Quote from: ducatiz on April 07, 2010, 04:50:00 PM
they lie.
no really. most rounds fired are jacketed, so the only fouling you have to worry about is copper and powder. you get a little lead but not enough to worry about short term.
only cranks who fire LRN or wadcutters need to worry about lead fouling.
lead actually lubricates the barrel a little. you don't need to have a 100% lead free barrel. too much is bad tho.
yeah, i was really sad when they came out with water soluble bore cleaners...
I use lead rounds in my 22...
and that montana solvent seemed to do a pretty good job.
The 223 uses jacketed, which is actually what I bought the stuff for. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on April 07, 2010, 04:54:34 PM
I use lead rounds in my 22...
and that montana solvent seemed to do a pretty good job.
The 223 uses jacketed, which is actually what I bought the stuff for. ;D
22 LRN is a scant buildup. i wouldn't worry about lead buildup in a 22 at all. maybe de-lead it once every 5000 rounds?
the rifling in a 22 barrel is pretty shallow compared to say 8mm mauser or 45 acp. barrel doesn't force the projectile in as deep and not as much residue is left.
Quote from: ducatiz on April 07, 2010, 04:50:00 PM
most rounds fired are jacketed, so the only fouling you have to worry about is copper and powder. you get a little lead but not enough to worry about short term.
only cranks who fire LRN or wadcutters need to worry about lead fouling.
so are you calling me a crank for having a perfectly functional lever action Marlin that shoots non jacketed lead .35 Rem rounds? ( I wasn't even going to mention my Henry Golden Boy lever action .22lr)
Quote from: zooom on April 08, 2010, 02:23:54 AM
so are you calling me a crank for having a perfectly functional lever action Marlin that shoots non jacketed lead .35 Rem rounds? ( I wasn't even going to mention my Henry Golden Boy lever action .22lr)
the fact that you have .35 rem sitting around means you're a crank.. ;D
i have Arisaka and Nambu handloads... I guess I am one too.. ;D
Quote from: ducatiz on April 08, 2010, 02:31:31 AM
the fact that you have .35 rem sitting around means you're a crank.. ;D
i have Arisaka and Nambu handloads... I guess I am one too.. ;D
I might even go so far as to say that my .35 rem is my best shooting rifle in my possession...
wow...Arisaka and Nambu handloads?...next thing you'll be doing is looking for Wetherby or something else archaic....LOL
For a 1911 thread, this is WOEFULLY lacking in the picture department. [cheeky] ;D
I've decided to build my own 1911, from the frame and bare slide up. I will have alot of questions for you happy people here. [bow_down]
I'm thinking full-size frame and full-length slide. Other than those set parameters, I'm open for recommendations, hints, and observations. Looking for Beavertail grip safety, conventional 45. ACP . For plinking and occasional carry. No silly laser-grips, nice wood ones like my P238 has... I'm thinking Novak glow in the dark sights in dovetails, either blued, or OD Green, just like the 1911A1 GI-model Springfield has.
Well? Please feel free to ask any questions, or advise in any way you can think of...
1st question....how much are you willing to spend and 2nd question, what do you NOT want?
Since I will be spreading the cost of the gun over a large amount of time, I can do a couple hundred at a time on fram, slide, etc...
No Tactical Rail, no Series 80 Safety, A Beveled mag-well is good, but no flower pot. This will not be a race gun, nor used for any competition shooting. Ambi-safety doesn't matter.
I'm looking at a Fusion Government frame with 30 lpi frontstrap.
eb bobtail.
i'll say it again,
eb bobtail.
Can you elaborate? I'm at work, and they have blocked all gun related material, the commies. [leo]
I take you have already been poking around at Ed Brown stuff as well as Baer, Wilson Combat and Kimber for some ideas of what you wan and what you think you might do when i is all said and done overall?
Yeah. I've been looking at ads and reading reviews in Gun Magazines, asking all of the [leo] in my family about theirs. (They all carry one.) Looking online, and flipping through this thread. Research is my strong point. LOL
I've got a pretty good idea of the finished product, aesthetically. And I know most 1911's bear strong resemblance to each other not only aesthetically, but mechanically as well. I've got two parts schematics saved on my desktop, will be YouTubing the hell out of them to understand the internals. I'm relatively mechanically inclined, and we've got plenty of gun shops around here w/ gunsmiths I can harass. ;D
Look up Ed Brown Bobtails - the fit of the grip in your hand is fantastic, in my opinion. It has material removed (at an angle - "bobtailed") where your palm naturally swells. Also, less digging into your side whilst carrying.
I'm a 1911 fan but not the Ed Brown bobtails. I have had EB guns so it's not a general EB issue... just the bobtails. Got rid of mine and never looked back. To each their own... :P
i thought the 4" eb bobtail was a comfy carry.
not the gun i'd try to shoot any contests with, that goes to the 5", full size frame.
I think I'll go find one and hold it, to see how it feels. I like EB's stuff a lot, so I'd imagine this is no different.
i also use an EB safety on my Kimber. much nicer than what it came with.
I'm still on the fence about the EB Bobtail... Did your gun come with it, or did you have it modified and fitted for the Bobtail? I'm interested on how it is done...
The guy I used to shoot with in Memphis bought one. Prompted me to replace my safety with an EB when the Kimber Ambi failed (I didn't need ambi anyhow). I liked the quality of the parts on it a lot.