Is this post considered pollitical?
I hope not...It is unbelievable to me that these idiots are are defying the US war ships !
Give 'em their 2 million, get our guy back then blow them out of the water...case closed and I'd bet no other pirate attacks would happen to a US flagged ship.
The US is gutless anymore !!
I agree with you 100% but I'm gonna leave this one alone. [thumbsup]
two words
armed merchantmen
C'mon. They're not even real pirates. They don't have poofy shirts, or parrots or eye-patches or anything.
Quote from: superjohn on April 10, 2009, 06:05:14 PM
C'mon. They're not even real pirates. They don't have poofy shirts, or parrots or eye-patches or anything.
Ding ....ding ...ding ;D
Real Pirates?
(http://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/V/R/P/piratesofthecaribbean3puby.jpg)
Now wait a minute here good buddy. Aren't the good guys trying to get Mr. Richard Phillips back alive?
The Pie Rats have got to feel that they have some chance of getting away alive, and after that, alive and well $$. They wouldn't bat an eye at killing Mr. Phillips otherwise.
And if Mr. Phillips is rescued and the bad guys are in hand as it were, blow em the make the beast with two backs up. Or the guillotine maybe - relatively painless. Or a shot in the head with a big gun. I bet that wouldn't even hurt.
No need to make em suffer, just get em off the planet. [coffee]
LA
Quote from: ducpainter on April 10, 2009, 06:12:04 PM
Ding ....ding ...ding ;D
Nate I figured you remembered the good old days.
Your much younger than you friend Jon ;D
Quote from: superjohn on April 10, 2009, 06:05:14 PM
C'mon. They're not even real pirates. They don't have poofy shirts, or parrots or eye-patches or anything.
>>deleted inappropriate photo entitled "ASS PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN"<<
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 10, 2009, 06:46:08 PM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverart/Adult/Large/Front/01/87845500001.jpg)
???
Quote from: Bick on April 10, 2009, 06:50:12 PM
???
ok, bad joke, i'll remove it.. i have been drinking too much manischewitz tonight
I cannot see the pic, thus ???
Quote from: Bick on April 10, 2009, 07:01:50 PM
I cannot see the pic, thus ???
it's an adult themed movie entitled "Ass Pirates of the Caribbean" with a chick in skimpy clothes lookign happy to seeu
Quote from: Old-Duckman on April 10, 2009, 05:16:26 PM
Give 'em their 2 million, get our guy back then blow them out of the water...case closed and I'd bet no other pirate attacks would happen to a US flagged ship.
The US is gutless anymore !!
Give em phony currency.
Then blow the fukker up.
Now there are two other "pirate" ships on their way to try and pick up the lifeboat.
Where's silentbob?
bro this aint the movies
Quote from: superjohn on April 10, 2009, 06:05:14 PM
C'mon. They're not even real pirates. They don't have poofy shirts, or parrots or eye-patches or anything.
I don't think we should give them poofy shirts or parrots, but a missing eye, a peg leg and a hook would be a good idea. Then feed the bastids to the sharks.
The problem is that they hold some 200+ other prisoners from various countries. While killing them is the preferred course of action, it could lead to the executions of the other prisoners as retaliation. That would cause a shit storm if we saved the US hostage, but our actions led to the deaths of so many hostages from other nations.
Saying the US is gutless is just silly. It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 08:51:22 AM
The problem is that they hold some 200+ other prisoners from various countries. While killing them is the preferred course of action, it could lead to the executions of the other prisoners as retaliation. That would cause a shit storm if we saved the US hostage, but our actions led to the deaths of so many hostages from other nations.
Saying the US is gutless is just silly. It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
How dare you infer that the world is more complicated than can be summarized into 6 word sound bites on the evening news.
Keep it up and you'll destroy our world view and make us French. [laugh]
at the end of the day, we all need to just accept that every profession has unique risks.
cops get shot
doctors get stuck with needles and have to do hiv therapy
lawyers have to listen to obnoxious clients
and sailors have to live with the fact they might run into pirates and get their throats cut.
i'm not saying it's pretty, but if you're going on a boat 10k miles from land and the nearest armed help is 5 hours away by boat, then you probably ought to prepare for it.
it blows my mind that these ships don't have some kind of armament.
Quote from: herm on April 10, 2009, 05:55:07 PM
two words
armed merchantmen
two more words:
insurance rates
Quote from: krolik on April 11, 2009, 09:59:52 AM
two more words:
insurance rates
good point, what about bonded security guys, like a man-at-arms for the boat?
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 11, 2009, 10:02:49 AM
good point, what about bonded security guys, like a man-at-arms for the boat?
Its interesting that a US flagged & crewed vessel can effectively take care of itself, due to the training of the crew.
When there's a foreign flagged vessel with a low paid/trained crew the pirates seem to have much more success.
Quote from: krolik on April 11, 2009, 10:06:06 AM
Its interesting that a US flagged & crewed vessel can effectively take care of itself, due to the training of the crew.
When there's a foreign flagged vessel with a low paid/trained crew the pirates seem to have much more success.
oh, i don't know.. those chinese crewman armed with hoses, empty beer bottles and cans (!) and cigarettes really did a good job..
question is, where did they get all the empties??
Quote from: krolik on April 11, 2009, 09:59:52 AM
two more words:
insurance rates
Hm whats cheaper the increased insurance or a couple of adequately armed "operators" paid to defend the ship? I prefer the proactive approach!
4 navy seals in dive gear
1 extra airtank
1 (http://img.tfd.com/wn/5A/61FF8-screw-auger.gif)
fixed
I too find it weird that these ships aren't armed. I understand that certain types aren't due to cargo (i.e. oil tanker ships being highly flammable), but it seems to me if you're going to be shipping in waters known to be this dangerous you should carry weapons. ???
I also read somewhere that there is a lot of friendly traffic in these waters, and the cargo ships are massive with small crews, so often the pirates are able to sneak up and basically be on board before anyone realizes it. It's not like they are flying the skull and bones as they approach! Leads me to believe the actual situation is much more confusing and difficult to control than we are assuming from our comfy computer chairs.
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 10:54:44 AM
4 navy seals in dive gear
1 extra airtank
1 (http://img.tfd.com/wn/5A/61FF8-screw-auger.gif)
fixed
Possibility that dozens of existing hostages from other countries will be killed in retaliation. :-\
so
do nothing then, based on the "what if"?
I say... send a message or be the pregnant dog
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
When the law break in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting in death row
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, Guns of Brixton
The money feels good
And your life you like it well
But surely your time will come
As in heaven, as in hell
You see, he feels like Ivan
BORN under the Brixton sun
His game is called survivin'
At the end of the harder they come
You know it means no mercy
They caught him with a gun
No need for the Black Maria
Goodbye to the Brixton sun
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh-the guns of Brixton
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
You can crush us
You can bruise us
And even shoot us
But oh- the guns of Brixton
Shot down on the pavement
Waiting in death row
His game was survivin'
As in heaven as in hell
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 11:05:20 AM
so
do nothing then, based on the "what if"?
I say... send a message or be the pregnant dog
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
When the law break in
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting in death row
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, Guns of Brixton
The money feels good
And your life you like it well
But surely your time will come
As in heaven, as in hell
You see, he feels like Ivan
BORN under the Brixton sun
His game is called survivin'
At the end of the harder they come
You know it means no mercy
They caught him with a gun
No need for the Black Maria
Goodbye to the Brixton sun
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh-the guns of Brixton
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
You can crush us
You can bruise us
And even shoot us
But oh- the guns of Brixton
Shot down on the pavement
Waiting in death row
His game was survivin'
As in heaven as in hell
You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Oh, the guns of Brixton
Its a catchy little tune....
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 10:58:13 AM
I too find it weird that these ships aren't armed. I understand that certain types aren't due to cargo (i.e. oil tanker ships being highly flammable),
The cargo should have no impact on the ship being armed or not.
I spent 3 years and 5 months of my 4 year tour in the USN on the USS Detroit AOE-4. It had 4 ammunition holds, each were 6 decks deep, these were in the center of the ship, one directly behind the other. These ammo holds were surrounded by fuel tanks all around the perimeter of the ship. The fuel tank in the bow (the very front of the boat) held high octain gasoline !!! What idiot designed that vessel?
Anyway we had four twin 3"-50 gun mounts (the ammo looked just like giant bullets. The diameter of the projectile was 3") and an armory full of small arms.
We fired our guns for drills and practice. There were 4 AOEs when I was in and none of them exploded...at least not that I am aware of.
So there is no valid reason (cargo-wise) why these ships could not have armament.
i can't figure this one out either - if they be on a small boat, as the news channel told me, that's "water tight", why not punch a hole in it?
Hard to shoot at your captives if you are treading water. i also found it humerous that the news had very little information on the exact whereabouts, how many captives, etc, but they knew, FOR CERTAIN, that the bad guys had AK-47's and were shooting into the water at the American, and were able to pull his body back into the boat.
While I'd like to point out all the holes in that bit of journalism, we should begin with a simple reference to MythBusters and what happens to bullets when they hit water. (If there were bullets fired into the water from the possible buzz-worthy named kalashnikov patterned rifle). See: http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html (http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html) If you are 3' under water, and they are standing on the boat, you be safe. The odds of them hitting you from a small boat that's bobbing in the water once you dive in and swim out about 10y, grab a bite of air, and go under and swim some more seems super small. food for thought.
Quote from: Old-Duckman on April 11, 2009, 11:46:26 AM
The cargo should have no impact on the ship being armed or not.
So there is no valid reason (cargo-wise) why these ships could not have armament.
Just reporting what I read...that oil tanker crews are not armed because the cargo is extremely flammable.
Comparing the USN operations to civilian ships isn't really valid. The military's level of justifiable risk is much higher than the civilian worlds.
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 11:05:20 AM
so
do nothing then, based on the "what if"?
Lyrics are great...but they're just that...song lyrics.
The aren't doing nothing last time I checked. Time (hopefully not too much) will tell if the current efforts are successful, or if they have to resort to something more drastic. But, there are quite a few examples of the military attempting to rescue hostages not going so well. I'm not saying special forces or something shouldn't eventually go in...just that it is probably viewed right now as a last resort.
Well, a war of attrition is an interesting plan - isn't that the current plan? Last i heard it was wait it out, people will get thirsty eventually.
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 01:17:37 PM
Lyrics are great...but they're just that...song lyrics.
The aren't doing nothing last time I checked. Time (hopefully not too much) will tell if the current efforts are successful, or if they have to resort to something more drastic. But, there are quite a few examples of the military attempting to rescue hostages not going so well. I'm not saying special forces or something shouldn't eventually go in...just that it is probably viewed right now as a last resort.
maybe we could bow to them
(http://media.80stees.com/images/products/Karate_Kid_Frear_Does_Not_Exist_in_Dojo-T.jpg)
"sweep the leg".
[laugh]
New DMF t-shirts:
There is no FEAR in this DOJO!
DucatiMonsterForum.org
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
maybe we could bow to them
uh huh...that's exactly what I said. [roll]
How about this...walk us through, step by step, your Seals/corkscrew plan to rescue the Captain.
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 01:32:59 PM
[laugh]
You do have a knack for reducing things to the absurdly simple. [roll]
You're right...just kill em now. F' the captin, and F' the 200+ hostages they currently hold. Besides...you don't know them anyway.
everybody who sails or ships in those lanes knows what to expect. If my son decides he wants to make a buck working on a boat that runs that route ..... he accepts those risks, and I'd be the first person wanting his life spared, but paying those people off just keeps the cycle going.
it's either pay higher prices for items in because of ransom payoffs or higher insurance costs....either way we the consumer lose and pay for it...I'd rather the insurace company get it.
this form of extortion only ends when we decide to really stop it.
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 01:32:59 PM
uh huh...that's exactly what I said. [roll]
How about this...walk us through, step by step, your Seals/corkscrew plan to rescue the Captain.
easy.... divers swin undetected under the boat.
make holes
boat takes on water
pirates are more concerned about saving themselves that hostage
boat sinks
divers rescue hostage
pirates drown
it looks like everybody drown until hostage writes a book and is booked to do Oprah
That's what I was thinking. Hard to tread water while holding rambo knife and steel framed cold war rifle.
But wait! Why wouldn't they just get in a life boat??? (Because, duh, that's what they are already in!)
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 01:48:06 PM
easy.... divers swin undetected under the boat.
make holes
Pirates notice holes are being placed in boat, and shoot Captin in head...since they know they're f'ed.
boat takes on water
pirates are more concerned about saving themselves that hostage see above
boat sinks
divers rescue hostage see above
pirates drown
it looks like everybody drown until hostage writes a book and is booked to do Oprah
You're too optimistic. I edited your process to what would more likely happen.
Why not just launch a missile at the raft instead...same outcome.
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 01:59:03 PM
You're too optimistic. I edited your process to what would more likely happen.
Why not just launch a missile at the raft instead...same outcome.
an auger is cheaper than a missle
save the missles for the houses the pirates are building on the somalian coastline
Why not just smoke 'em out with tear gas or something?
OR EVEN BETTER: Laughing gas. Hard to shoot your prisoners if you are laughing hysterically at the situation.
Or, I saw this on future weapons, the gay-gas. There's also some audible device that makes people throw up. The puke-horn or some such name. The frequency upsets peoples balance and makes 'em hurl. Hard to kill people if you are blowin' chunks off the starboard bow.
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 01:45:03 PM
this form of extortion only ends when we decide to really stop it.
Agreed. I never said to pay them off. I'm just saying it probably isn't time yet for a drastic course of action like many here are proposing from the comfort of their computer. I don't claim to know the answer...but I'll give the US military and govt. the benefit of the doubt that they have a plan before I call them weak.
http://resources.bravenet.com/audio_clips/movies_tv/10_commandments_-_so_let_it_be_written_so_let_it_be_done/listen/ (http://resources.bravenet.com/audio_clips/movies_tv/10_commandments_-_so_let_it_be_written_so_let_it_be_done/listen/)
Quote from: ato memphis on April 11, 2009, 02:05:06 PM
Why not just smoke 'em out with tear gas or something?
OR EVEN BETTER: Laughing gas. Hard to shoot your prisoners if you are laughing hysterically at the situation.
Or, I saw this on future weapons, the gay-gas. There's also some audible device that makes people throw up. The puke-horn or some such name. The frequency upsets peoples balance and makes 'em hurl. Hard to kill people if you are blowin' chunks off the starboard bow.
How do you deliver the gas? The lifeboat is closed up, and appears to be made of a pretty stout fiberglass material or something similar...similar to cruise ship life boats.
The frequency thing is interesting...wonder if it's operational?
they need the brown note
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 02:08:15 PM
How do you deliver the gas? The lifeboat is closed up, and appears to be made of a pretty stout fiberglass material or something similar...similar to cruise ship life boats.
The frequency thing is interesting...wonder if it's operational?
While it may be operational, for demonstration use on the History [hitler?] channel, I do not think it is mass produced and on board at this point. The idea was riot-stopping, etc.
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 10:59:38 AM
Possibility that dozens of existing hostages from other countries will be killed in retaliation. :-\
It's possible it'll go this route however there's a been a few other rescues by commando forces, etc, that do not appear to have changed the stakes for anyone.
Has there been any confirmation that the guy is still alive?
I was watching the news yesterday and they said after he tried to escape, they shot at him in the water, and then dragged him back inside, but there has been no communication with him to confirm he is alive since then.
My guess is that he got shot immediately upon getting in the water, and his body was pulled back in so they could still use him as a bargaining chip.
With the little information I know, I would halt all negotiations or any other talks with the pirates until his health is confirmed. To do otherwise doesn't make sense to me.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30167077 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30167077)
more
Quote from: Triple J on April 11, 2009, 01:11:51 PM
Just reporting what I read...that oil tanker crews are not armed because the cargo is extremely flammable.
Comparing the USN operations to civilian ships isn't really valid. The military's level of justifiable risk is much higher than the civilian worlds.
Yeah, you make a good point about military being willing to accept higher risks.
However, this is a container ship transporting food and supplies, not oil.
However...again. I have a friend who is a merchant seaman. He is a member of SIU "Seafearer International Union" He told me this ship was manned by SIU members and he told me that they are not allowed to have weapons of any kind on the merchant ships he sails on.
I think the time has come that they need to rethink that policy.
He actually thinks it is a good policy (to not have weapons) 'cause he feels many of his union brothers are a bit crazy...at times. He is a gun owner so it is not that he has anything against guns and gun owners. He has been a merchant seaman for over 20 years and I have heard some crazy stories about his union brothers (and sisters) so, in a way I understand his concern but something has got to change.
I always disagree with those policies. Many pizza delivery people are denied the ability to carry per corporate policy. Really makes me mad. So I try to always just by frozen stuff or attempt to make a pizza myself (mixed success).
Quote from: ato memphis on April 11, 2009, 02:51:19 PM
I always disagree with those policies. Many pizza delivery people are denied the ability to carry per corporate policy. Really makes me mad. So I try to always just by frozen stuff or attempt to make a pizza myself (mixed success).
I give you credit for not buying from a place whose policies you disagree with...Your "mixed success" line gave me a chuckle though.
If I were a pizza delivery guy whose company would not let me carry concealed (and I had a legit permit to do so), I'd carry anyway. A small pocket pistol would go un-noticed and if you needed it...so what, you loose your job, not your life.
I agree with that - I've got the permit, and if I had to do that job (I can think of many I'd rather do) its better to be alive and looking for a job than dead but well in accord with corporate policies.
I try hard to stick with the principles plan, but sometimes the wife orders pizza before I can say "hey, the grocery is only a few seconds away, we can walk there even, and it tastes better (often) and is cheaper!".
I tried to make my own pizza a few times. Not so good. I am pretty mean calzone maker though.
finally some sense! I agree with paying them phony money and taking the Captain back and blowing them up slowly and PAINFULLY. We have got to stop people from no longer respecting us. this is crap.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 11, 2009, 03:59:29 PM
air drop Kenny G
That would be Cruel and Unusual! I'm sure that would violate the Geneva Convention on more than one level. Wait a minute, these guys are pirates.....there is no Geneva Convention!!
Time to get Midevil!
[evil]
Get every country that has had a ship hijacked in the last couple year to send a couple of warships. Then total complete naval blockade, 5 miles to 50 miles offshore, nothing in or out. If you have to lay a few hundred miles of mines to get the job done so be it.
Quote from: sno_duc on April 11, 2009, 05:17:13 PM
Get every country that has had a ship hijacked in the last couple year to send a couple of warships. Then total complete naval blockade, 5 miles to 50 miles offshore, nothing in or out. If you have to lay a few hundred miles of mines to get the job done so be it.
1900 miles of coast line is a lot to "total complete naval blockade". good Idea but horrible logistics. that's part of the problem now. too much area to cover.
I hate to say it but it seems the only way to get results is to show no tolerance. when a pirate ship is spotted, take care of it NOW not later. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
I don't agree with the policy, and i'm not advocating this, but it just seems that this is the only way to make any lasting impression.
when the risk is so outweighed by the payoff then they'll stop. I know that it has all kinds of repercussions to this route but what else will work?
Quote from: bobspapa on April 11, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
maybe we could bow to them
(http://www.jossip.com/wp/docs/2009/04/obamabow420-420x0-400x323.jpg)
Quote from: silentbob on April 11, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
(http://www.jossip.com/wp/docs/2009/04/obamabow420-420x0-400x323.jpg)
King Fahd : "ooo, i am so happy, did you bring that new shipment of little children for me??"
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/index.html)
nothing to see here...
move along.
yeah!
I am very glad the Capt will be going home (mostly) safe and sound.
Go team!
[thumbsup] [clap]
Bravo!! Very good to hear. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Triple J on April 12, 2009, 12:18:51 PM
[thumbsup] [clap]
I knew Joel's plan would work. I guess Ducati and the Navy monitor this board for ideas.
A friend in the Navy (Navy SEAL) offered the best solution last night -- get a submarine to submerge at speed beneath the life raft. They won't have time to do anything in the raft as they will be bounced hard and flying through the water for a good minute. Get rescue divers in the water immediately after to do triage and save the hostage. Only problem he mentioned is if the submarine should miss its target... only then would it get ugly.
Quote from: ato memphis on April 11, 2009, 02:12:35 PM
While it may be operational, for demonstration use on the History [hitler?] channel, I do not think it is mass produced and on board at this point. The idea was riot-stopping, etc.
They have been deployed and used with varying degrees of success. There is a private security company that was using them. They were able to repel one attack but then another time it didn't work and the security team jumped ship and left the crew to fend for themselves. I don't think they've had too much business since then.
He was just rescued a few minutes ago -- check your latest newsfeed!
Quote from: silentbob on April 12, 2009, 01:11:19 PM
I knew Joel's plan would work. I guess Ducati and the Navy monitor this board for ideas.
Not quite Joel's plan. Sounds like Navy snipers killed them when they showed themselves (finally). Negotiations had also broken down since the US was demanding (rightly so) that the pirates be turned over for prosecution. Force was required.
So much for the US being "gutless"...which was my point.
I've got to give credit where credit is due...The US did the right thing. Who cares what other countries think, if our people are in danger, take action.
It is my first time for this administration but, I give the obama administration a thumbs up for this response/action.
Got this quote from a pirate from a Reuters article:
"The French and the Americans will regret starting this killing. We do not kill, but take only ransom. We shall do something to anyone we see as French or American from now," Hussein, a pirate, told Reuters by satellite phone.
All I can say is "Bring it on Hussein."
"We do not kill..." Then why are you pointing guns at hostages you idiot?
Glad our guy is safe and also glad that there are 3 less pirates on the seas now...!
Way to go USN!
I say if Sailors want to be Pirates then history dictates the way they should be dealt with. Dolph
Somali pirates, who happen to be Muslim?
Allah-hu Ackbarrrrrrrrrrrr?
That is such a bad ass story.
Cheers to the Navy Seals or whoever pulled the 3 triggers on those make the beast with two backsers.
[clap]
Well done Navy boys. [thumbsup]
More than likely it was Dev Group.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 12, 2009, 07:01:40 PM
Somali pirates, who happen to be Muslim?
Allah-hu Ackbarrrrrrrrrrrr?
'tizzz...
enough with the Muslim bullshit.
Take it to the CDC.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 12, 2009, 09:12:27 PM
'tizzz...
enough with the Muslim bullshit.
Take it to the CDC.
heeeyy!! it was a PIRATE joke!
if they were from Arkansas, i would have posted something relevant to that!
Quote from: kopfjager on April 12, 2009, 08:53:31 PM
More than likely it was Dev Group.
Just heard this am that 3 total shots were fired. One shot, One Kill. on 2 moving vessels at sea. Damn. Don't make the beast with two backs with a sniper.
Quote from: swampduc on April 13, 2009, 06:53:05 AM
Just heard this am that 3 total shots were fired. One shot, One Kill. on 2 moving vessels at sea. Damn. Don't make the beast with two backs with a sniper.
yeah, one shot from a 20mm Lahti..
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
The people that say this will start a cycle of killing are the same ones who don't punish their kids cause they don't want their kids to retaliate with worse behavior - which we know doesn't work.
The strongest side needs to set the tone, and if the pirates are setting the rules, then they are perceived to be stronger and will win.
Good going US and French special forces. This is not the first time the French special forces have killed pirates either BTW - it is more the norm for them, but they don't get the press cause the vessels are typically smaller private yatchs.
mitt
Quote from: ducatizzzz on April 13, 2009, 06:58:46 AM
yeah, one shot from a 20mm Lahti..
Had to look that one up. 110 lb weapon, with a 5 lb magazine!
If other countries would use force, as well, I think the pirates would decide the game wasn't so fun and pack up their toys and go home. I just read an interview with an Italian whose guys are being held. He's wishing the US would free his crew.
Yay USN!! [bow_down]
Quote from: mitt on April 13, 2009, 07:04:40 AM
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
The people that say this will start a cycle of killing are the same ones who don't punish their kids cause they don't want their kids to retaliate with worse behavior - which we know doesn't work.
The strongest side needs to set the tone, and if the pirates are setting the rules, then they are perceived to be stronger and will win.
Good going US and French special forces. This is not the first time the French special forces have killed pirates either BTW - it is more the norm for them, but they don't get the press cause the vessels are typically smaller private yatchs.
mitt
are you say'n my kids are gonna grow up to be pirates cuz I spanked them?
damn it
Quote from: swampduc on April 13, 2009, 06:53:05 AM
Just heard this am that 3 total shots were fired. One shot, One Kill. on 2 moving vessels at sea. Damn. Don't make the beast with two backs with a sniper.
in choppy water at that. :o
Not to make a political statement but more to point out the facts, the Captain of the navy vessel made the call feeling that the captain of the Maersk Alabama was in imminent danger. Not the Obama administration. Let's give the credit where the credit is truly due.
I won't get into the dicussion of who's idea it was to talk the pirates into surrendering without having a backup plan beyond that.
Seals 3
Pirates 0
and French 2, interestingly.
Quote from: ato memphis on April 13, 2009, 10:03:00 AM
and French 2, interestingly.
Actually, they are +4 pirates, and -1 hostage that was killed over the last couple months, plus capturing ~6 more pirates.
mitt
Quote from: mitt on April 13, 2009, 10:08:54 AM
Actually, they are +4 pirates, and -1 hostage that was killed over the last couple months, plus capturing ~6 more pirates.
mitt
so does that mean a record of liek 6-4-1?
or 5-3-1?
i cant wait to see all the outcry over the killing of innocent pirates. after all, they were just trying to make a living.
:P
it was a sign of aggression!
...because, taking hostages at gun point isn't .. a ...sign...of... aggression?
we should have just bowed
and
they shall no longer be refered to as pirates.... the new term is Deppheads
QuoteNot to make a political statement but more to point out the facts, the Captain of the navy vessel made the call feeling that the captain of the Maersk Alabama was in imminent danger. Not the Obama administration. Let's give the credit where the credit is truly due.
One of my concerns the last few days was that the White House and/or Pentagon would try to micro-manage a rescue attempt from the other side of the world and bungle it badly. Seems to me that they did it exactly right. According to the latest reports, Obama did authorize the use of deadly force, but left the detailed planning and execution up to the guys on the scene who clearly knew exactly what they're doing.
i agree that it was handled well.
and i could care less who made the "final" decision.
job well done!
Quote from: ZLTFUL on April 13, 2009, 07:52:33 AM
Not to make a political statement but more to point out the facts, the Captain of the navy vessel made the call feeling that the captain of the Maersk Alabama was in imminent danger. Not the Obama administration. Let's give the credit where the credit is truly due.
I won't get into the dicussion of who's idea it was to talk the pirates into surrendering without having a backup plan beyond that.
And you know this "fact" how?
Quote from: Dan on April 13, 2009, 01:47:08 PM
And you know this "fact" how?
It's called command discretion. And ithas been in place on every military installation both floating and stationary since the beginning of this country. Just ask someone like Nakid or Slowpoke what they would be ordered to do if they were being approached by an un-responsive plane or boat while at sea...and since the Cole, the shoot first ask questions later thing tends to be a little more obvious.
As for what actually transpired, several news outlets including CNN, BBC, CNBC, et al stated that "The captain felt that Mr. Phillips' life was in imminent danger and ordered teams to take action." That of course was quickly replaced with "The Obama administration authorized deadly force".
Fact is, every military officer in a command position has commad discretion and can use it any time they feel that anyone under their charge is at risk. End of story.
Quote from: Dan on April 13, 2009, 01:47:08 PM
And you know this "fact" how?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514719,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514719,00.html)
Common sense?
Probably went something like this:
Upon entering the area:
Captain - So can we take them out if the opportunity arises?
Administration - Erm. Well. We need to consult. *Looks at public opinion* Sure.
A bit later:
Captain - They're making threats and holding a gun to the captive. Shoot the f'ers.
Seals - Eliminated!
A bit later:
Captain - So we killed the piwates, rescued the hostage and have a captive.
Administration - Wow! Really!? "Quietly to themselves" Damn we need to jump on this PR coup!
One long term solution to the pirates is to declare a well publicized "No Float" zone starting 12 miles off the Somali Coast. If we've got satellites that can read my license plate in my driveway we can also monitor boat movement off Somalia. Station a carrier a couple hundred miles out to sea and anytime a boat leaves the Somali mainland and goes past the 12 mile limit, the boat sinks.
I think the piracy would stop pretty fast, if not instantly and it will be good training exercise for the Navy.
Sure, some innocent Somali fishermen and traders will be economically hurt, but I think enough is enough and their problems fall under the category of not our problem.
Quote from: Drjones on April 13, 2009, 02:03:05 PM
Common sense?
Probably went something like this:
Upon entering the area:
Captain - So can we take them out if the opportunity arises?
Administration - Erm. Well. We need to consult. *Looks at public opinion* Sure.
A bit later:
Captain - They're making threats and holding a gun to the captive. Shoot the f'ers.
Seals - Eliminated!
A bit later:
Captain - So we killed the piwates, rescued the hostage and have a captive.
Administration - Wow! Really!? "Quietly to themselves" Damn we need to jump on this PR coup!
Could not have said it better my self sir.
<Mod hat>
Lay off the politics, discussions of the administration's role in all of this, etc.
Failure to do so with get this thread locked, and we have highly trained admins ready to shoot ban offenders if we feel the board to be "at risk"
</mod hat>
says the monkey with an uzi
monkeys?
uzis?
I thought we were talking about pirates?
if there were ninjas in the area, the pirate problem would be solved.
Why's the rum always gone?
Quote from: swampduc on April 13, 2009, 06:53:05 AM
Just heard this am that 3 total shots were fired. One shot, One Kill. on 2 moving vessels at sea. Damn. Don't make the beast with two backs with a sniper.
You forgot to mention that it was three shots at one time from three seperate snipers. Thats about as badass as it gets. [clap]
If nothing else, I think the settles the "Who would win in a fight? Ninjas or Pirates?" question...
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on April 13, 2009, 03:49:42 PM
If nothing else, I think the settles the "Who would win in a fight? Ninjas or Pirates?" question...
Yup...snipers would smoke em both! [evil]
Quote from: Langanobob on April 13, 2009, 02:05:15 PM
One long term solution to the pirates is to declare a well publicized "No Float" zone starting 12 miles off the Somali Coast. If we've got satellites that can read my license plate in my driveway we can also monitor boat movement off Somalia. Station a carrier a couple hundred miles out to sea and anytime a boat leaves the Somali mainland and goes past the 12 mile limit, the boat sinks.
I think the piracy would stop pretty fast, if not instantly and it will be good training exercise for the Navy.
Sure, some innocent Somali fishermen and traders will be economically hurt, but I think enough is enough and their problems fall under the category of not our problem.
my vote would be for a san antonio class.
let the marines play with their toys.
shores of tripoli and all that. [thumbsup]
Yeah...because having both sides of the political retardedness represented in the media isn't allowed. We only want the ball washers and peter puffers giving us the news. [roll]
Quote from: ZLTFUL on April 14, 2009, 09:25:38 AM
We only want the ball washers and peter puffers giving us the news. [roll]
speak for yourself, i want them giving me yam oil massages...
nice sig tizz...
no matter who reported it..
thats some damn good shooting! Moving targets on a moving platform, from a moving platform. :o
anyone know the range?
Quote from: acalles on April 14, 2009, 11:28:47 AM
no matter who reported it..
thats some damn good shooting! Moving targets on a moving platform, from a moving platform. :o
anyone know the range?
I believe under 50 yds. The Bainbridge was towing the liferaft.
Quote from: kopfjager on April 14, 2009, 11:37:40 AM
I believe under 50 yds. The Bainbridge was towing the liferaft.
still impressive considering how much everything must have been moving.
Quote from: Langanobob on April 13, 2009, 02:05:15 PM
One long term solution to the pirates is to declare a well publicized "No Float" zone starting 12 miles off the Somali Coast. If we've got satellites that can read my license plate in my driveway we can also monitor boat movement off Somalia. Station a carrier a couple hundred miles out to sea and anytime a boat leaves the Somali mainland and goes past the 12 mile limit, the boat sinks.
I think the piracy would stop pretty fast, if not instantly and it will be good training exercise for the Navy.
Sure, some innocent Somali fishermen and traders will be economically hurt, but I think enough is enough and their problems fall under the category of not our problem.
Isn't this why we have unmanned aircraft? Why don't we just set up a radar balloon picket (ever seen them on our border with Mexico - they see all) with anchored drone platforms every so many miles......let the robots sort it out.
hahaha,..........that would be great.
send a hell fire missile after the make the beast with two backsers every time they get within a mile of anyone else.
Quote from: herm on April 14, 2009, 11:26:52 AM
nice sig tizz...
yeah, granpa saw it and "edited" it.. rofl
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll161/porschaholic/20090416091609_The20Navy.jpg)
Quote from: kopfjager on April 14, 2009, 11:37:40 AM
I believe under 50 yds. The Bainbridge was towing the liferaft.
I heard it was 75 yards as they (Navy) had shortened the tow rope during the night from 200 yards.
I also heard there is a gyro thingy that's available to keep the sights on target from a moving platform.
I'm willing to bet the same guys could have made the same shots at 750 yards under the same conditions just as well. [thumbsup]
LA
i've been trying to find pics of the lifeboat they were in. does anyone have a link to one?
(http://blogshevik.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/lifeboat.jpg)
similar to this
holy crap. that's completely enclosed.
did the snipers shoot through a window? ???
yep one through the windshield
two had their heads outta the ports for fresh air
IIRC
I wonder what those Sniper's high score is at "Whack a Mole"?
Quote from: rgramjet on April 16, 2009, 02:04:49 PM
I wonder what those Sniper's high score is at "Whack a Mole"?
Its gotta be better than Chuck Norris.
Are we still killing those pirates? ???
We're way past pirates....on to moles now...try'n keep up.
:-)
would love to see the video of it (cuz you know it exists!)
Quote from: rgramjet on April 16, 2009, 04:21:46 PM
We're way past pirates....on to moles now...try'n keep up.
:-)
That's what cats are for....
you guys need seals? [roll]
Quote from: ducpainter on April 16, 2009, 04:45:34 PM
That's what cats are for....
you guys need seals? [roll]
Its ironic, usually they are the ones getting bonked on the head after popping out of a hole. [laugh]
Quote from: Ducaholic on April 16, 2009, 03:36:31 PM
Its gotta be better than Chuck Norris.
are you kidding?
chuck took the shots.
thats right. all three....
and then he looked at the last guy, the one on board the USN ship.
that guy died too. from the look.
Seals take care of the pirates, Jack Russells take care of the cats...
Quote from: rgramjet on April 16, 2009, 05:09:33 PM
Seals take care of the pirates, Jack Russells take care of the cats...
Are we going in a new direction? ;D
Shake and bake Baby, Shake and Bake!
;D
Quote from: ducpainter on April 16, 2009, 05:22:37 PM
Are we going in a new direction? ;D
And the ducs take care of the seals.