...f#%$ 'em.
They signed that POS Michael Vick. IMHO that guy is an irredeemable sub-human and should have been beaten to death because he is not worthy of lethal injection, electrocution, or the cost of a bullet.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/13/vick.eagles/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/13/vick.eagles/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn)
so... you commit a crime.
you goto jail..
you serve your punishment.
you shouldn't be able to get gainful employment afterwards?
or are you just pissed he's making 1.6 mil...?
Live in philly and can tell you that people here aren't that happy either
of course that could be because it rains like england
or the sports teams will perpetually let you down
When is Pit Bull Appreciation Day?
Quote from: hihhs on August 13, 2009, 10:49:22 PM
...f#%$ 'em.
They signed that POS Michael Vick. IMHO that guy is an irredeemable sub-human and should have been beaten to death because he is not worthy of lethal injection, electrocution, or the cost of a bullet.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/13/vick.eagles/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/13/vick.eagles/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn)
I totally agree with you but he served his court appointed time. (In my opinion they should have thrown him in a cage full of hungry pits and let them eat him alive)
He should be able to work just like anyone else that gets out of jail.
Quote from: metallimonster on August 14, 2009, 05:38:50 AM
I totally agree with you but he served his court appointed time. (In my opinion they should have thrown him in a cage full of hungry pits and let them eat him alive)
He should be able to work just like anyone else that gets out of jail.
I agree with you, Jay.
He paid his debt to society. He served 18 months for killing/fighting dogs. He has every right to employment.
I just wouldn't have signed him as his character is less than desirable, but someone is giving him a second chance.
It's kind of funny..........how will Dante Stallworth be treated when he comes back to the game?
Tony Dungy has been working with Vick and if Vick really is a worthless POS I don't think a guy like Dungy would waste time on him. I think Vick deserves this chance and hope he makes the best of it.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 14, 2009, 06:04:06 AM
Tony Dungy has been working with Vick and if Vick really is a worthless POS I don't think a guy like Dungy would waste time on him. I think Vick deserves this chance and hope he makes the best of it.
Tony Dungy is a very standout guy, no question about it.
QuoteIt's kind of funny..........how will Dante Stallworth be treated when he comes back to the game?
Well, I think there are major differences here, other than the difference between killing animals and killing a human being. Vick's actions were deliberate and pre-meditated. As for Stallworth, I know that in my past I've been driving around drunk enough that given the dance of Lady Luck going the other way the same thing could have happened to me. And I don't think there are many members here who've never driven in a city completely drunk or stoned. Not to apologize for Stallworth, as he's clearly guilty, but he sure didn't do it intentionally to make a profit like Vick did.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 14, 2009, 06:10:51 AM
Well, I think there are major differences here, other than the difference between killing animals and killing a human being. Vick's actions were deliberate and pre-meditated. As for Stallworth, I know that in my past I've been driving around drunk enough that given the dance of Lady Luck going the other way the same thing could have happened to me. And I don't think there are many members here who've never driven in a city completely drunk or stoned. Not to apologize for Stallworth, as he's clearly guilty, but he sure didn't do it intentionally to make a profit like Vick did.
he could have called a cab.
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 14, 2009, 06:14:30 AM
he could have called a cab.
Of course he could have. The point is that what he did was not intentional, as it was with Vick. Horrible choice, and tragic yes...but not intentional.
As much as I dislike the guy, I think he will be good in Philly. He will def. push McNabb to step up his game and is def. a good backup to have. Can't wait for football to start. [popcorn]
I respectfully disagree with the idea that he has paid his debt to society and should be able to resume his career. This guy was a member of the American Elite... the professional athletes. And he was willing to risk that, and all that comes with it, to brutalize and kill animals for fun FOR FIVE YEARS!
I'm not one that believes athletes should be held to a higher standard. I believe they are going to make mistakes & shouldn't be punished any more or less than the rest of us. Bar fights & DUIs are lapses in judgement, and hopefully momentary.
What he did was organized & ongoing.
If I got caught doing something illegal, immoral, and inhumane for five years, and went to jail for it, I would not be able to step right back into my career. It would be impossible.
Of course I don't know what any of you do for a living but I'd bet all of you wouldn't be able to resume your careers either.
I don't see why it should be any different for him.
I agree that if any "regular" person who committed the same crime will not have the same opt. to return to he/she's career, or any job for that matter. Unfortunately the world revolves around $$, and Vick is still capable of making others a lot of it.
QuoteIf I got caught doing something illegal, immoral, and inhumane for five years, and went to jail for it, I would not be able to step right back into my career. It would be impossible.
Of course I don't know what any of you do for a living but I'd bet all of you wouldn't be able to resume your careers either.
I don't see why it should be any different for him.
What Cotton said. And, your point is well taken. The difference seems to be that if you or I had a specific skill, talent or ability that was scarce and in huge demand like Vick has, then we too would be likely be able to resume our careers.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 14, 2009, 08:41:03 AM
What Cotton said. And, your point is well taken. The difference seems to be that if you or I had a specific skill, talent or ability that was scarce and in huge demand like Vick has, then we too would be likely be able to resume our careers.
Exactly...it all depends upon the job you're trying to return to.
(to be clear, I think Vick is giant asswipe)
Quote from: Langanobob on August 14, 2009, 08:41:03 AM
What Cotton said. And, your point is well taken. The difference seems to be that if you or I had a specific skill, talent or ability that was scarce and in huge demand like Vick has, then we too would be likely be able to resume our careers.
Langanobob, I think you and Cotton are both correct.
But, I think that is only true in the area of professional
sports football.
Full disclosure here...I only watch college football
I guess the bottom line here is that what he did repulses me and to see him return to his career makes me even sicker.
There are some acts that are simply irredeemable to me and his was one of them. Eighteen months as "celebrity" inmate doesn't seem enough.
Ah well, I doubt he'll be a Nike spokesperson anytime soon.
Quote from: Triple J on August 14, 2009, 06:54:23 AM
Of course he could have. The point is that what he did was not intentional, as it was with Vick. Horrible choice, and tragic yes...but not intentional.
no, he intentionally drove drunk. one of the consequences of that was he hit and killed someone. a direct result of his decision to drive while intoxicated.
had he taken a cab, this wouldn't be brought up.
You must hate Ray Lewis
QuoteLewis was charged with murder and aggravated assault in a double-murder. In exchange for testifying against his friends, he received probation for a misdemeanor. Commissioner Paul Tagliabue fined him $250,000, but did not cause him to miss a single game.
Driving drunk is okay cause everybody's doing it!!! [thumbsup]
[roll]
It's a popular NFL past time http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/arrests.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/arrests.html)
quote and webpage both came from http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9935324/Vick-serves-as-a-model-for-embattled-NFL-players (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9935324/Vick-serves-as-a-model-for-embattled-NFL-players)
Quote from: DCXCV on August 14, 2009, 09:41:42 AM
You must hate Ray Lewis
Driving drunk is okay cause everybody's doing it!!! [thumbsup]
[roll]
It's a popular NFL past time http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/arrests.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/arrests.html)
quote and webpage both came from http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9935324/Vick-serves-as-a-model-for-embattled-NFL-players (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9935324/Vick-serves-as-a-model-for-embattled-NFL-players)
Again, I don't see why these guys don't get drivers. We went to a wedding in CA last year. My SO was in the wedding. There were four nights of events with lot's of alcohol. The hotel hooked me up with a car/driver for all four nights for $400. That is CHEAP compared to DUI.
And let's face it, these guys have PILES of money. I just don't get it.
If only people could get so worked up about human abuse and rail about the injustices of people serving little time for physically abusing kids or adults.
While I don't care for dog fighting, they're dogs.
I'd much rather see someone spend a significant amount of time in prison for abusing kids than killing a make the beast with two backsing dog.
Bottom line - he did the time that was deemed appropriate. And he, much like anyone else out of the klink, needs to get on with his life. Perhaps you'd rather see him not get a job and get welfare?
Quote from: hihhs on August 14, 2009, 09:46:57 AM
Again, I don't see why these guys don't get drivers. We went to a wedding in CA last year. My SO was in the wedding. There were four nights of events with lot's of alcohol. The hotel hooked me up with a car/driver for all four nights for $400. That is CHEAP compared to DUI.
And let's face it, these guys have PILES of money. I just don't get it.
Actually, most NFL teams provide a car service for
free. They come and drive you and your Bently/Hummer/whatever home. It's about responsibility, not money.
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 14, 2009, 09:15:37 AM
no, he intentionally drove drunk. one of the consequences of that was he hit and killed someone. a direct result of his decision to drive while intoxicated.
had he taken a cab, this wouldn't be brought up.
Agreed he should have taken a cab.
The point is he intentionally drove drunk...he didn't intentionally kill someone. That was a horrible accident. Compared to Vick, who intentionally tortured and killed dogs.
I'm am surely not saying driving drunk is OK, or acceptable...it isn't. This is just a comment on the difference between what they did. One was an accident caused by an exceedingly poor choice...the other was an intentional act.
Quote from: DCXCV on August 14, 2009, 09:41:42 AM
You must hate Ray Lewis
that's the other one i was trying to think of!
Quote from: vwboomer on August 14, 2009, 09:51:08 AM
If only people could get so worked up about human abuse and rail about the injustices of people serving little time for physically abusing kids or adults.
While I don't care for dog fighting, they're dogs.
I'd much rather see someone spend a significant amount of time in prison for abusing kids than killing a make the beast with two backsing dog.
Bottom line - he did the time that was deemed appropriate. And he, much like anyone else out of the klink, needs to get on with his life. Perhaps you'd rather see him not get a job and get welfare?
i keep saying the same thing, but nobody seems to see my point, or care to see my point.
Quote from: vwboomer on August 14, 2009, 09:51:08 AM
If only people could get so worked up about human abuse and rail about the injustices of people serving little time for physically abusing kids or adults.
While I don't care for dog fighting, they're dogs.
I'd much rather see someone spend a significant amount of time in prison for abusing kids than killing a make the beast with two backsing dog.
Bottom line - he did the time that was deemed appropriate. And he, much like anyone else out of the klink, needs to get on with his life. Perhaps you'd rather see him not get a job and get welfare?
People do get worked up about people abusing children or adults. The difference here is that Vick is a sports star, so this case got a lot of attention.
I also agree people should spend time in prison for abusing children. That or just shot...
They should also spend time in prison for abusing animals...not just dogs.
I also agree he should get a second chance. I still think he's an asshole though.
I bet he takes McNabb's Job.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/13/source-donovan-mcnabb-isnt-happy-with-vick-acquisition/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/13/source-donovan-mcnabb-isnt-happy-with-vick-acquisition/)
Quote from: KnightofNi on August 14, 2009, 10:32:07 AM
i keep saying the same thing, but nobody seems to see my point, or care to see my point.
You have a point? ;D
To hell with him he has talent but the only talent worth paying for is the talent that gets results. Two years after that douchebag left here we drafted a rookie quarter back who could do what he never did ... WIN
Quote from: Triple J on August 14, 2009, 10:42:21 AM
People do get worked up about people abusing children or adults. The difference here is that Vick is a sports star, so this case got a lot of attention.
I also agree people should spend time in prison for abusing children. That or just shot...
They should also spend time in prison for abusing animals...not just dogs.
I also agree he should get a second chance. I still think he's an asshole though.
Well said JJ.
Quote from: csp808 on August 14, 2009, 11:32:12 AM
To hell with him he has talent but the only talent worth paying for is the talent that gets results. Two years after that douchebag left here we drafted a rookie quarter back who could do what he never did ... WIN
Yeah, They were a storied franchise, "before" Vick.
Quote from: kopfjager on August 14, 2009, 11:42:39 AM
Yeah, They were a storied franchise, "before" Vick.
What suprises me is the number of fans who wanted him back.Its fewer than before since Ryan showed out but some people still believe Vick is the man for the Falcons
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9935324/Vick-serves-as-a-model-for-embattled-NFL-players (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9935324/Vick-serves-as-a-model-for-embattled-NFL-players)
Tony Dungy is about the most stand up coach in recent NFL History.
He has even agreed to mentor Michael Vick.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 14, 2009, 06:10:51 AM
Well, I think there are major differences here, other than the difference between killing animals and killing a human being. Vick's actions were deliberate and pre-meditated. As for Stallworth, I know that in my past I've been driving around drunk enough that given the dance of Lady Luck going the other way the same thing could have happened to me. And I don't think there are many members here who've never driven in a city completely drunk or stoned. Not to apologize for Stallworth, as he's clearly guilty, but he sure didn't do it intentionally to make a profit like Vick did.
THIS STATEMENT IS SO STUPID IT DOESN'T DESERVE A RESPONSE OTHER THAN. "IF YOU DRUNK DRIVE YOU DELIBERATELY CHOSE TO DRIVE DRUNK"
QuoteTHIS STATEMENT IS SO STUPID IT DOESN'T DESERVE A RESPONSE OTHER THAN. "IF YOU DRUNK DRIVE YOU DELIBERATELY CHOSE TO DRIVE DRUNK"
My my, yet another pink pantied keyboard commando with balls barely big enough to anonymously scream in my face from probably 3,000 miles away. If you don't agree with my statement why not try to make a logical statement and explanation?
My point is not to defend Stallworth, just to point out that his crime is different than Vick's. I don't think any of us have drowned or hanged dogs. But, and I doubt if there many exceptions, all of us at one time or another have been stupid enough to drive with an illegal amount of alcohol or other substances in our systems and only luck kept us from killing someone. Does not make it right or OK. For whatever reason, intent and premeditation have a role in law and in sentencing.
Quote from: sbrguy on August 14, 2009, 12:24:02 PM
THIS STATEMENT IS SO STUPID IT DOESN'T DESERVE A RESPONSE OTHER THAN. "IF YOU DRUNK DRIVE YOU DELIBERATELY CHOSE TO DRIVE DRUNK"
Yelling on the net is bad form.
Knock it off...please.
Quote from: csp808 on August 14, 2009, 11:32:12 AMwe drafted a rookie quarter back who could do what he never did ... WIN
Too bad you didn't keep this one. ;)
Favre was drafted by the Atlanta Falcons in the second round, 33rd overall in the 1991 NFL Draft.[12] On July 19, 1991, Favre agreed to a three-year, $1.4 million contract with a reported signing bonus of $350,000. [13] Atlanta coach Jerry Glanville did not approve of the drafting of Favre, saying it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre into the game.[14] Favre's first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown. He only attempted four passes in his career at Atlanta, completing none of them.
Quote from: kopfjager on August 14, 2009, 03:03:40 PM
Favre's first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown.
So one of his NFL career records started on his very first pass? That's awesome. [clap]
Quote from: DCXCV on August 14, 2009, 03:17:23 PM
So one of his NFL career records started on his very first pass? That's awesome. [clap]
His first pass. ;)
Brett Favre : First Touchdown? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzl5LbE_zVc#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
His first completion. :D
Brett Favre's First Completion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjMtj0TMTx8#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
Hilarious ive always heard about that pass but ive never actually seen it
After much soul searching, and having re-read Dale Carnegie a few times, I feel moved to conclude that this was a predictable decision:
The Eagles are a loser franchise.
The Eagles run TO out of town (best player/winner they've ever had - even if he's nuts) but sign Vick?
Philly cops are being shot at all-time, record-high rates - and Vick will become a role model for these thugs, as I hear dog fighting is pretty popular in parts of north and west Philly.
Andy Reid can relate to Vick, as his sons are both convicted felons.
Governor Ed Rendell will (finally) resign from the post-game show.
McNabb takes credit for lobbying to get Vick on the team....what's that all about?
McNabb is the biggest loser in the NFL.
Quote from: OT on August 14, 2009, 07:53:28 PM
After much soul searching, and having re-read Dale Carnegie a few times, I feel moved to conclude that this was a predictable decision:
The Eagles are a loser franchise.
The Eagles run TO out of town (best player/winner they've ever had - even if he's nuts) but sign Vick?
Philly cops are being shot at all-time, record-high rates - and Vick will become a role model for these thugs, as I hear dog fighting is pretty popular in parts of north and west Philly.
Andy Reid can relate to Vick, as his sons are both convicted felons.
Governor Ed Rendell will (finally) resign from the post-game show.
McNabb takes credit for lobbying to get Vick on the team....what's that all about?
McNabb is the biggest loser in the NFL.
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
Quote from: kopfjager on August 14, 2009, 07:59:46 PM
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie
Rule #1 -- I was giving predictions and opinions.
Live in Philly for 20 years and you'll agree with everything I've said...
Quote from: Triple J on August 14, 2009, 10:15:10 AM
The point is he intentionally drove drunk...he didn't intentionally kill someone. That was a horrible accident.
One was an accident caused by an exceedingly poor choice...the other was an intentional act.
I maintain they're the same thing. It was not an accident. It was an intentional act. Running a gambling/dog fighting ring is also an exceedingly poor choice. You saying when you're drunk you're unaware of what you're doing? I think not.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 14, 2009, 02:03:11 PM
My point is not to defend Stallworth, just to point out that his crime is different than Vick's. I don't think any of us have drowned or hanged dogs. But, and I doubt if there many exceptions, all of us at one time or another have been stupid enough to drive with an illegal amount of alcohol or other substances in our systems and only luck kept us from killing someone. Does not make it right or OK.
I've never once driven on drugs or with liquor in me. It's not hard.
In other news, yes, the crimes were different, but no, neither one was an accident. The common thread was that they were both make the beast with two backsing morons.
Violence towards animals is often a predictor of violence towards humans.
From the HSUS:
QuoteMany studies in psychology, sociology, and criminology during the last 25 years have
demonstrated that violent offenders frequently have childhood and adolescent histories of serious
and repeated animal cruelty. The FBI has recognized the connection since the 1970s, when its
analysis of the lives of serial killers suggested most, as children, had killed or tortured animals. Other
research has shown consistent patterns of animal cruelty among perpetrators of more common forms
of violence, including child abuse, spouse abuse, and elder abuse. In fact, the American Psychiatric
Association considers animal cruelty one of the diagnostic criteria of conduct disorder.
I would guess in Vick's case
the animal abuse was not a precurser to eventual human violence as it was about fostering an image
His actions were primative Alpha male games that bought him respect from his peers
as far as the man himself is concerned
no one will know how he really felt about the whole thing
for all any of us knows he may very well love dogs as much as the rest of us
and
felt horrible the entire time and felt trapped by his self imposed role in his chosen lifestyle/clique
or
He is a make the beast with two backsing psycho who will murder and rape children in 3 to 5 years
Only time will answer that question
but
bob I think has the right of it
very few of us here has a clean enough closet to go judging anyone about anything
:-/
^
I don't like you; That made way too much sense and I agree.
Quote from: MrIncredible on August 14, 2009, 09:39:04 PM
I maintain they're the same thing. It was not an accident. It was an intentional act. Running a gambling/dog fighting ring is also an exceedingly poor choice. You saying when you're drunk you're unaware of what you're doing? I think not.
Sorry, I think you're wrong.
Driving drunk was a choice. He didn't leave say, or think, I am going to kill someone on my way home tonight. That part was an accident. No, you are not unaware of what you're doing when you're drunk...but being aware doesn't mean you
intentionally kill someone. It was an accident, made more likely to happen by the poor choice in deciding to drive drunk...but still an accident.
Vick intentionally tortured and killed dogs. He participated in the actual act.
Again, I'm not defending drunk driving...it is horrible as can be the consequences. There is a difference between the pre-meditation of these acts though.
none of my dogs, my family's dogs, or my friends' dogs have ever been in anyone's dogfights.
I've had several people very close to me killed by drunk drivers.
My personal beliefs on the culpability of the two actions are certainly skewed in the direction not reflected here.
I just find it odd that Vick gets filleted and Stallworth is pretty much out of the picture
killing dogs vs killing a human
pre-meditated, accident, I don't care. I am not a judge or a lawyer.
it seems that dogs are valued more than a human life and that is sad.
(note: not defending what Vick did, I've made my thoughts clear)
"Organized dogfighting is now a felony in all 50 states, according to the HSUS. But an estimated 40,000 people, HSUS officials said, still follow the barbaric dogfighting circuits across the U.S.--and an additional 100,000 meet on neighborhood streets, alleys and hideaways."
http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Vick/articles/4YuCGjOEnXi/More+Charges+Filed+Pit+Bulls+Rescued+Dogfighting (http://www.zimbio.com/Michael+Vick/articles/4YuCGjOEnXi/More+Charges+Filed+Pit+Bulls+Rescued+Dogfighting)
Quote from: MrIncredible on August 14, 2009, 09:39:04 PM
I maintain they're the same thing. It was not an accident. It was an intentional act. Running a gambling/dog fighting ring is also an exceedingly poor choice. You saying when you're drunk you're unaware of what you're doing? I think not.
Quote from: Triple J on August 15, 2009, 07:04:30 AM
Sorry, I think you're wrong.
Driving drunk was a choice. He didn't leave say, or think, I am going to kill someone on my way home tonight. That part was an accident.
You committed a crime while committing another crime. It would be no different had the guy robbed a bank and hit and killed someone while running from the police...
I have to admit that when I started this thread, I had never heard of Stallworth. I've since read some articles.
It was not my intent to compare the two cases. The only commonality I find is the link to pro football, which seems frankly unrelated. I would not compare manslaughter (which is just a euphemism for killing someone) to abuse and cruelty to animals (which in Vick's case is a huge understatement)
According to the Washington Post, Stallworth served 24 days for killing someone while driving drunk...I find this completely baffling.
My stance when starting this thread was this, and this alone;
In my opinion, Michael Vick should not have been allowed to return to professional sports.
Quote from: Statler on August 15, 2009, 07:50:33 AM
none of my dogs, my family's dogs, or my friends' dogs have ever been in anyone's dogfights.
I've had several people very close to me killed by drunk drivers.
My personal beliefs on the culpability of the two actions are certainly skewed in the direction not reflected here.
Completely understood. I don't think many of us have escaped the effects of drunk drivers.
QuoteI've never once driven on drugs or with liquor in me. It's not hard.
Commendable and I'm pretty sure you are very much in the minority. Again, this is a cultural thing :) When I was a kid by the time we were 14 we were making relatively big contributions to the local Coors distributor's profits. We'd hang out near a liquor store until we found a homeless guy who'd buy beer for us in exchange for keeping the change. And we didn't slow down our drinking when we reached 16 and started driving. There was no peer pressure or other outside influences not to drink (or other substance) and drive and plenty of it in the other direction. It would have indeed been hard not to drink and drive. Not saying it was OK, and not saying we weren't morons, just saying that's how it was. Luck has some role in it that I never ran anyone over. Again, not saying it's OK to drink and drive and today I will not even drive with a hangover or even think about getting on a bike with any alcohol at all in my system.
QuoteIn other news, yes, the crimes were different, but no, neither one was an accident. The common thread was that they were both make the beast with two backsing morons.
Agreed. They were morons.
QuoteIn my opinion, Michael Vick should not have been allowed to return to professional sports.
As far as I'm concerned if anyone shouldn't be allowed to return to professional football, it's TO. But seriously, some of my best friends are dogs and it's kind of surprising to me that I don't necessarily agree with you. Of course, Vick may be acting but I think his behavior since he was released from prison has been OK. If he was acting like an arrogant unrepentant asshole, then I'd agree.
And also, even though nowhere in the Constitution does it say we get second chances, I think it's somehow an important tenet of our society that second chances can be earned. Time will tell on this and he hasn't earned anything yet, but the initial reports I read from training camp are that he's doing very well.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 16, 2009, 02:45:39 AM
As far as I'm concerned if anyone shouldn't be allowed to return to professional football, it's TO.
I admit I don't follow professional sports
but
I just read TO's wiki and unless he did something this year that isn't accounted for
TO has done nothing that even comes close to Vick or Stallworth
He's an arrogant prick but that's about it
Quote from: Mother on August 16, 2009, 04:37:55 AM
I admit I don't follow professional sports
but
I just read TO's wiki and unless he did something this year that isn't accounted for
TO has done nothing that even comes close to Vick or Stallworth
He's an arrogant prick but that's about it
You hit that spot on.
He was a prick to the Eagles and they released him. That's it.
Didn't kill anyone or fight a dog.
Quote from: Mother on August 16, 2009, 04:37:55 AM
I admit I don't follow professional sports
but
I just read TO's wiki and unless he did something this year that isn't accounted for
TO has done nothing that even comes close to Vick or Stallworth
He's an arrogant prick but that's about it
I wasn't serious about TO. I was just tryin' to make a joke. Guess it was a bad one and I didn't put any smilies because I thought it was obvious that I wasn't serious. Even started the next sentence with "Seriously, ..." :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
There.
Quote from: hihhs on August 16, 2009, 12:53:58 AM
According to the Washington Post, Stallworth served 24 days for killing someone while driving drunk...I find this completely baffling.
Agree. There has to be something going on there that we're not hearing about.
I think I read somewhere that the guy he hit was als drink and was jaywalking...i.e. if Stallworth had hit him and not been DUI himself, he may not have even been ticketed.
I don't now that for sure...just saying I *think* I remember something to that effect.
...and to be clear. I haven't been defending Stallworth at all during this, or at least didn't at all intend to if it came across that way.
Quote from: NAKID on August 15, 2009, 10:23:32 PM
You committed a crime while committing another crime. It would be no different had the guy robbed a back and hit and killed someone while running from the police...
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/manslaughter_involuntary.html (http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/manslaughter_involuntary.html)
This link illustrates my point. Unintentional.
Again, not defending Stallworth at all...just a distinction between the two cases. I
never said it wasn't a crime, or he shouldn't be punished.
Quote from: Langanobob on August 16, 2009, 06:41:47 AM
I wasn't serious about TO. I was just tryin' to make a joke. Guess it was a bad one and I didn't put any smilies because I thought it was obvious that I wasn't serious. Even started the next sentence with "Seriously, ..." :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
There.
Quote from: Mother on August 16, 2009, 04:37:55 AM
I admit I don't follow professional sports
Hey I dunno
Like I said, I don't follow sports
but
I do know how psycho you sports people get when it comes to players and their antics
;D
Anyone know what's going on with Billy Lane (Mr. DUI/Vehicular Homicide) these days?
Quote from: OT on August 16, 2009, 07:57:11 PM
Anyone know what's going on with Billy Lane (Mr. DUI/Vehicular Homicide) these days?
Not lately, but I read a while ago that he might walk because somone (defense attorney or the Discovery Channel) reputed the guy on the scooter he hit and killed had a few drinks, too.... :-X
Quote from: OT on August 16, 2009, 08:00:09 PM
Not lately, but I read a while ago that he might walk because somone (defense attorney or the Discovery Channel) reputed the guy on the scooter he hit and killed had a few drinks, too.... :-X
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090815/NEWS01/90815001/1006/6+years+in+prison+for+Billy+Lane (http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090815/NEWS01/90815001/1006/6+years+in+prison+for+Billy+Lane)
Quote from: OT on August 16, 2009, 08:01:45 PM
That's stunning -- only in America -- kinda like chemistry, the two drunks neutralize each other, generating some heat and a little water...
Are you talking to yourself? ??? :-\
Just having some fun......what the hell, it seems that most internet posts are misinterpreted (especially in this thread) so I wondered how easily I could confuse myself.
It worked, too - I never would have guessed that Billy Lane would have gone to court for sentencing two days ago! ;D Thanks for the link - 6-years and no license "for life" (except that he probably drives better drunk than most of the Fla elderly do sober) [thumbsup]
Quote from: kopfjager on August 16, 2009, 08:01:27 PM
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090815/NEWS01/90815001/1006/6+years+in+prison+for+Billy+Lane (http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090815/NEWS01/90815001/1006/6+years+in+prison+for+Billy+Lane)
6 years and a suspended license for life, I think this might hurt his bike building business and image :P
Quote from: Pakhan on August 17, 2009, 04:47:10 AM
6 years and a suspended license for life, I think this might hurt his bike building business and image :P
um why?
he plays to the chopper crowd
it makes him an outlaw it their eyes
helps foster his image
not hurt it
Quote from: Mother on August 17, 2009, 05:43:18 AM
um why?
he plays to the chopper crowd
it makes him an outlaw it their eyes
helps foster his image
not hurt it
His "creativity" won't have a bike shop to build in
He ran over one of his customer base, which I don't think will help his outlaw image
He cried in court, which is very outlaw like :P
Permanent license suspension, won't be riding his bikes to/ from any event or for TV cameras. That kinda dents his marketing.
Guess we will see in 6 years, but I'm guessing he won't be on TV for his bike building.
Quote from: Pakhan on August 17, 2009, 06:46:07 AM
His "creativity" won't have a bike shop to build in
He ran over one of his customer base, which I don't think will help his outlaw image
He cried in court, which is very outlaw like :P
Permanent license suspension, won't be riding his bikes to/ from any event or for TV cameras. That kinda dents his marketing.
Guess we will see in 6 years, but I'm guessing he won't be on TV for his bike building.
He ran over a scooter Not his customer base
cried in court? people deep down will see that he is human and fallible...like all romanticized outlaws
Permanent license suspension? He didn't have a license when this thing went down
he may not be on TV again but look at vick, he just signed a contract for how many million?
and just wait till his publicist thinks its a great idea to do a Morelock commemorative build off
Quote from: Mother on August 17, 2009, 07:16:53 AM
He ran over a scooter Not his customer base
cried in court? people deep down will see that he is human and fallible...like all romanticized outlaws
Permanent license suspension? He didn't have a license when this thing went down
he may not be on TV again but look at vick, he just signed a contract for how many million?
and just wait till his publicist thinks its a great idea to do a Morelock commemorative build off
He might have been riding a scoot but I read he was a biker.
Guess that depends how you interpret it.
I think the comparison of Vicks career possibilities and Lanes are not really comparable.
(6 years later) Whose Morelock? I just don't see it happening that way.
If you want to make a $1 bet with me you're on! Don't skip out on me in 6 years!
He Gave up 130 Milllion and had to do some jail time. It seems that if he has a change of heart and never does it again he shouldnt have to pay for this the rest of his life. Here's a 60 minutes interview from last night.
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml?tag=hdr;snav (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml?tag=hdr;snav)
After seeing it, sincerity isn't what I got from it.
CALLING YOU OUT MOTHER, I WANT MY DOLLAR IN 6 YEARS OR ARE YOU (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj219/Putz37/thdancingchicken.gif)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9944746/McNabb:-Vick-and-I-could-play-together?From=MSNHP&FG=FOX_Pipe (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9944746/McNabb:-Vick-and-I-could-play-together?From=MSNHP&FG=FOX_Pipe)
Quote from: Pakhan on August 17, 2009, 11:40:46 AM
After seeing it, sincerity isn't what I got from it.
CALLING YOU OUT MOTHER, I WANT MY DOLLAR IN 6 YEARS OR ARE YOU (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj219/Putz37/thdancingchicken.gif)
what is that?
a challenge to a cock fight...
Quote from: Mother on August 17, 2009, 08:13:36 PM
what is that?
a challenge to a cock fight...
Only if it's organized, money is involved, and non performing cocks are killed off
the NFL should never have let him back in. i wonder what the PGA would have done if tiger got caught torturing dogs. where is our country's sense of right and wrong. it is shit like this that makes me ashamed of America.
Quote from: al@sktc on August 18, 2009, 06:21:52 AM
the NFL should never have let him back in. i wonder what the PGA would have done if tiger got caught torturing dogs. where is our country's sense of right and wrong. it is shit like this that makes me ashamed of America.
So no criminal should be allowed to come back in to society for a second chance?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 18, 2009, 06:28:55 AM
So no criminal should be allowed to come back in to society for a second chance?
playing pro sports is an honor and a responsibility. he should be banned from football.
Quote from: al@sktc on August 18, 2009, 06:35:02 AM
playing pro sports is an honor and a responsibility. he should be banned from football.
The fans of the NFL should protest; I haven't seen that yet.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 18, 2009, 06:28:55 AM
So no criminal should be allowed to come back in to society for a second chance?
I don't know if that should be the case, but wasn't Pete Rose banned from baseball for life because of betting? He never killed anything and was gone.
I think al@sktc made a good point. How would professional tennis, golf, various olympic sports, etc deal with an athlete that has tarnished the image of the sport? It's funny how it just seems looser with football when it comes to bad image.
It all boils down to him being talented (personally I think he is overrated, but whatever).
If the same thing would have happened to a 2nd or 3rd string QB, then he'd have received the same punishment...only no one would touch him when he returned.
There's a ton of money in football...and it is a team sport, so you don't just need one great player, you need a bunch. Because of this, talent (and thus money) overrides morals in some cases. :-\
It's different than Pete Rose because players betting on games puts the integrity of the game in question...the absolute worst thing that can happen to a pro sport.
IMO, football is doing pretty good to clean itself up...especially after Goodell has taken over. Things like Vick, Merriman, etc. will occassionaly happen though when players with questionable upbringing (some, not all) are suddenly handed tens of millions of dollars at the age of 22. :-\ The NFL has specific programs all rookies must take to try and keep them out of trouble. You can show a horse water, but...
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 07:20:28 AM
It's different than Pete Rose because players betting on games puts the integrity of the game in question...the absolute worst thing that can happen to a pro sport.
How did Rose ONLY betting on his team to win do anything to the integrity of the game? I could understand if he bet to lose and tossed the game, but that's not the case.
Quote from: Pakhan on August 18, 2009, 07:34:31 AM
How did Rose ONLY betting on his team to win do anything to the integrity of the game? I could understand if he bet to lose and tossed the game, but that's not the case.
I didn't say he did anything...MLB is worried about the
perception that he altered the outcome somehow...justified or not.
His ban is an on-going message to anyone even considering betting that they're willing to ban
anyone...even a Hall of Fame shoe-in.
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 07:20:28 AM
The NFL has specific programs all rookies must take to try and keep them out of trouble. You can show a horse water, but...
I had a professor in college who is a CFA (certified financial analyst.....one of the hardest credentials to get, the tests and material for that are un-make the beast with two backsing-believably hard.). Anyway, he taught a basic money management class to all of the rookie Colt's or any other player that wanted some advice what to do with their newfound high dollar bank accounts.
He gave them simple advice about budgeting, credit, loans, investments, etc.
According to him, about 90% of the guys ignored it and came back to him 1-3 years later seeking advice as they had buried themselves deep in houses, cars, and of course supporting their entourage.
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 07:35:49 AM
I didn't say he did anything...MLB is worried about the perception that he altered the outcome somehow...justified or not.
His ban is an on-going message to anyone even considering betting that they're willing to ban anyone...even a Hall of Fame shoe-in.
ok, but I think that was more MLBs perception than the fans. I think this shows that MLB is more concerned with their players actions than the NFL is.
Quote from: Pakhan on August 18, 2009, 07:59:26 AM
ok, but I think that was more MLBs perception than the fans. I think this shows that MLB is more concerned with their players actions than the NFL is.
Agreed that it is more MLB's perception. Most fans want Pete Rose admitted to the Hall.
MLB players haven't had the issues the NFL (or NBA) players have, so hard to tell if MLB is more concerned about their players actions (and not just the image of MLB). We'll find out if Manny, or A-Rod, Jeter, etc. ever gets busted for DUI manslaughter, dog fighting, etc.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 18, 2009, 07:49:47 AM
According to him, about 90% of the guys ignored it and came back to him 1-3 years later seeking advice as they had buried themselves deep in houses, cars, and of course supporting their entourage.
Not at all surprising. Take a kid who's been poor all his life and give him $10M+...suddenly he has a LOT of friends, and enjoys buying things, going out, etc.
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 08:11:49 AM
Not at all surprising. Take a kid who's been poor all his life and give him $10M+...suddenly he has a LOT of friends, and enjoys buying things, going out, etc.
That is exactly what happened to Vick.
Let's face it.........he grew up in inner-city where certain things are in the cultural.
In his 60minute interview he sort of eluded to his upbringing about dog fighting being a norm.
and guys.............
it really is within that culture.
(note: that is not a racial comment, it is truthful comment regarding different cultures)
Quote from: Pakhan on August 18, 2009, 05:50:06 AM
Only if it's organized, money is involved, and non performing cocks are killed off
done
you bring your cock
I'll bring mine
and then...
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 18, 2009, 08:17:54 AM
That is exactly what happened to Vick.
Let's face it.........he grew up in inner-city where certain things are in the cultural.
In his 60minute interview he sort of eluded to his upbringing about dog fighting being a norm.
and guys.............
it really is within that culture.
(note: that is not a racial comment, it is truthful comment regarding different cultures)
True...he still knew it was wrong though...hence why his teammates and coaches knew nothing about it, and why he lied to them until the very end.
Vick is a con man...and he conned the 60 minutes interviewer, and anyone who believed him in that interview IMO.
He doesn't give two shits about the dogs, or anything else he did. He only cares about his money.
hockey is a much better sport than football!
How do you compare Rose to Vick? Rose committed a violation of the rules of the game. Vick committed a crime. Vick's crime had NOTHING to do with football...
Quote from: NAKID on August 18, 2009, 08:42:19 AM
How do you compare Rose to Vick? Rose committed a violation of the rules of the game. Vick committed a crime. Vick's crime had NOTHING to do with football...
Is it an MLB rule, no betting on a games? I thought it was just the MLB image and the legality of gambling that got him in trouble.
Quote from: NAKID on August 18, 2009, 08:42:19 AM
How do you compare Rose to Vick? Rose committed a violation of the rules of the game. Vick committed a crime. Vick's crime had NOTHING to do with football...
because
the comparison was that MLB was willing to permanently ban a super star like rose for a relatively minor offense
where as the NFL will gladly extend a contract to a shitbird like vick
it was a demonstration to the lackadaisical stance that the NFL has in regards to criminals in their organization
Quote from: Pakhan on August 18, 2009, 08:45:12 AM
Is it an MLB rule, no betting on a games? I thought it was just the MLB image and the legality of gambling that got him in trouble.
I *think* it was both.
Quote from: Mother on August 18, 2009, 08:46:08 AM
because
the comparison was that MLB was willing to permanently ban a super star like rose for a relatively minor offense
where as the NFL will gladly extend a contract to a shitbird like vick
it was a demonstration to the lackadaisical stance that the NFL has in regards to criminals in their organization
Kind of...I'm not convinced MLB would act any differently...they just haven't been tested yet.
McNabb and Vick on the field at the same time is gonna give alot of defensive coordinators, nightmares. [evil]
McNabb isn't that good a QB, and Vick may not last the season....his ego's gonna get the better of him pretty quickly, which will be just the excuse the Iggles will need to send him packing.
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 08:28:27 AM
Vick is a con man...and he conned the 60 minutes interviewer, and anyone who believed him in that interview IMO.
+1....drowning, hanging, and otherwise killing dogs isn't "normal" in any civilized culture (except, maybe, as food in parts of China ;D)
Quote from: OT on August 18, 2009, 11:48:48 AM
McNabb isn't that good a QB, and Vick may not last the season....his ego's gonna get the better of him pretty quickly, which will be just the excuse the Iggles will need to send him packing.
I seriously doubt that. I expect some pretty good things on the field between him and Donovan.
I'm not sure how the Vick/McNabb connection will work.
Hopefully we get to see a lot of this come 11/22: ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qfn2rQSm1Lo/SnEA_HmGRLI/AAAAAAAAAB8/8jdaw69IEqY/s320/urlacher3.JPG)
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 12:07:35 PM
I'm not sure how the Vick/McNabb connection will work.
Hopefully we get to see a lot of this come 11/22: ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qfn2rQSm1Lo/SnEA_HmGRLI/AAAAAAAAAB8/8jdaw69IEqY/s320/urlacher3.JPG)
Brian does that to alot of QB's. [evil]
Nothing new.
Quote from: OT on August 18, 2009, 11:48:48 AM
McNabb isn't that good a QB, and Vick may not last the season....his ego's gonna get the better of him pretty quickly, which will be just the excuse the Iggles will need to send him packing.
+1....drowning, hanging, and otherwise killing dogs isn't "normal" in any civilized culture (except, maybe, as food in parts of China ;D)
you've lived in philly long enough. you know that the iggles don't even know what they are going to do with him.
as someone pointed out the other day, they need some publicity.
i just hope that jerry jones doens't decide to take him off of philly's hands just yet.
Travis, you want publicity?
KYW announced today that the Iggles are starting an anti-dog-fighting initiative..... :P
That's supposed to be some sort of major urban issue to fight, isn't it? Glad I'm not a rooster right now... [roll]
Vick wasn't there for the rollout, and it's not mentioned on the Iggles website. I think the initiative will be "....Vick comes and takes your fighting dogs and [fill in the blank]...." Better check those weiners at the 'Link' for fangs [evil]
Quote from: OT on August 25, 2009, 08:21:34 PM
Travis, you want publicity?
KYW announced today that the Iggles are starting an anti-dog-fighting initiative..... :P
That's supposed to be some sort of major urban issue to fight, isn't it? Glad I'm not a rooster right now... [roll]
Vick wasn't there for the rollout, and it's not mentioned on the Iggles website. I think the initiative will be "....Vick comes and takes your fighting dogs and [fill in the blank]...." Better check those weiners at the 'Link' for fangs [evil]
cock fighting is only in certain places in west philly and out towards kennet.
the dog fighting takes place in north philly and the great northeast. (i don't like the NE at all. it's not that great)
and i totally missed that. maybe i should actually start listening to the news. lol.
Cock fights in Kennett Square? I'm shocked [laugh]
So, that's what's in my pollo enchiladas....
The great NE? They must hold these events in the church basements, 'cause there's one on ever corner!
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9981554/Vick-to-play-in-Eagles'-final-preseason-game (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9981554/Vick-to-play-in-Eagles'-final-preseason-game)
Hmmmm...
I'm 55 with a bum ticker, haven't "taken a snap" in over 30 years ;D , and think even I could have run those six plays....
It's times like this that I miss Archie Manning, George Blanda, Johnny U, Y.A. Tittle, etc.....
Quote from: OT on August 29, 2009, 08:41:06 PM
Hmmmm...
I'm 55 with a bum ticker, haven't "taken a snap" in over 30 years ;D , and think even I could have run those six plays....
It's times like this that I miss Archie Manning, George Blanda, Johnny U, Y.A. Tittle, etc.....
wait a sec!
you're only 55? :)
The season hasn't even started yet. He will be the #2 QB before too long.
The Philadelphia Eagles released veteran quarterback A.J. Feeley on Sunday.
FOXSports.com's Jay Glazer reported earlier in the day that the Eagles would make the move, which leaves Michael Vick as the team's third quarterback behind Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb. Vick isn't eligible to play until Week 3.
Feeley started seven games in six seasons with the Eagles over two stints. He has thrown for 4,070 yards, 27 touchdowns and 29 interceptions in 23 career games, including eight starts with the Miami Dolphins in 2004
Quote from: Triple J on August 18, 2009, 12:07:35 PM
I'm not sure how the Vick/McNabb connection will work.
Hopefully we get to see a lot of this come 11/22: ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qfn2rQSm1Lo/SnEA_HmGRLI/AAAAAAAAAB8/8jdaw69IEqY/s320/urlacher3.JPG)
Well, You wont be seeing it this year. :(
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 06, 2009, 02:05:46 PM
The season hasn't even started yet. He will be the #2 QB before too long.
The Philadelphia Eagles released veteran quarterback A.J. Feeley on Sunday.
FOXSports.com's Jay Glazer reported earlier in the day that the Eagles would make the move, which leaves Michael Vick as the team's third quarterback behind Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb. Vick isn't eligible to play until Week 3.
Feeley started seven games in six seasons with the Eagles over two stints. He has thrown for 4,070 yards, 27 touchdowns and 29 interceptions in 23 career games, including eight starts with the Miami Dolphins in 2004
i love that they got rid of feeley and then mcnabb is out for a week. kolb sucks so they had to go pick up jeff garcia for a couple of weeks.